Vent Tee installed upside down

[Tyman]

My boss wants me to prove to him, in code, that vent tee's are supposed to be put in upside down like the scanned picture shows.

I cannot find anything other than 905.2 which states,

"All vent and branch vent pipes shall be so graded and connected as to drain back to the drainage pipe by gravity."

Here is a pic.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/yoda2be/tymanventtee.jpg

[Killertoiletspider]

That is a san tee upside down, a vent tee has no sweep.

[Service Guy]

I read something like that in my code-book and thats the way I was taught to do it.
I am too lazy to look it up right now, but you are right Tyman.

[gear junkie]

This is my interpration of that section. The smoothest way for air to go down that line is if the tee is upside down. Another problem I have with the ipc is that it doesn't mention prohibted connections for venting. I fought with a civil engineer for almost 30 because he told us to use a saddle tee on a CI stack for a vent connection that would be behind a consealed wall. Billy bootcamp won because I couldn't find a specific reference in the ipc that prohibits that installation.

[Tyman]

That is a san tee upside down, a vent tee has no sweep.

Noted, is it correct then? If so, do you know the code number.

[PLUMBER RICK]

the fittings have to be installed in the direction of flow.

since this is a vent, the flow direction is up to the roof.

the photo in the book is correct and your boss is wrong:sad:

rick.

see if the 3104. 2 irc or 905.1 of the upc will apply.

[NHMaster3015]

There is nothing in the IPC or the UPC about it and if you think about it for a minute, air doesn't give a rat's butt whether or not the fitting is upside down or not.

:running-dog:

[Tyman]

His argument is, that when snaking from the vent on the roof, your snake will be more suceptible to following the branch if the tee is install like that. :rolleyes:

[Killertoiletspider]

Noted, is it correct then? If so, do you know the code number.


We don't share the same code.

a vent tee looks like this.


http://www.dafehr.com/images/Genova/ventteehxhxh.jpg

[DuckButter]

My boss wants me to prove to him, in code, that vent tee's are supposed to be put in upside down like the scanned picture shows.

I cannot find anything other than 905.2 which states,

"All vent and branch vent pipes shall be so graded and connected as to drain back to the drainage pipe by gravity."

Here is a pic.
Nothing at all isn't clear in that wording, not to me at least.
Vents being connected to drain back is for rain, condensate and the occasional twig & dead critter to find it's way back to the main.

[DuckButter]

His argument is, that when snaking from the vent on the roof, your snake will be more suceptible to following the branch if the tee is install like that. :rolleyes:
...and that too.

[HouseOfAtlas]

Another reason why I put them upside down is because its easier to identify a vent (in case it's in a tight spot or something and it's hard to confirm if a pipe is a vent or a drain). Most of the time, if the pipe was a drain, there would be a wye fitting there, but the way some places are plumbed, you never know :D

[toolaholic]

THIS WILL GET BATTED AROUND FOR AT LEAST 40 POSTS. I believe both are acceptable
Why is it labeled a vent tee,If it can't be used in that attitude? Ohh well I'm just a dumb Carpenter stirrin the RIDGID POT.

[HouseOfAtlas]

Why is it labeled a vent tee,If it can't be used in that attitude? Ohh well I'm just a dumb Carpenter stirrin the RIDGID POT.

I don't know why that is labeled a vent tee. A vent tee is a tee without any sweep. Weird. I didn't notice that in the picture the first time around.

[NorthernIllinoisPlumber]

Simple..."stink up, poop down, dont bite your nails on break, payday is on Friday." Around here they say it helps the "stink" go up.

[glkearns]

I'm not sure of the code section, but the SanTee being upside down is correct. That is one that I learned pretty early on. I had piped a 2" copper vent, picked up the 1.5 lav vent, and continued thru the roof, and my 2x1.5 san tee was upside down. The foreman told me it looked good, but there was something wrong and asked me what it was...It took him handing me the 2" couplings, and a new tee and asked me which way a tee was supposed to be installed on a vent. The thing that really got me is I had to re-cut my riser after I had made the measurement the correct way. So I changed it, and at the inspection the inspector commented on the couplings, and the foreman just pointed at the apprentice responsible. His response : San tee right side up still lets air through, but (pointing to the wall) this is right.

Never will forget that rule again.

Greg

[NHMaster3015]

You have to special order pvc vent tee's in my area and the cost a lot more than a san tee so guess which one we use.

[myakka]

Assuming all of the branch on a San. tee.(TY) is part of the branch vent, then it must be installed upside down. Otherwise would you not pitch your vents to your stack? I agree that either way it would work, but to be consistent, upside down would be best.
Killertoiletspider
I've had a few instances where I wish I could have used a " Vent tee " but my code doesn't allow it.
Mike

[DUNBAR]

ahhhhhhhhhh, just put them in anyway you feel like it. Once the drywall is up noone will ever see it.



Better yet,



Shove about 10 idaho potatoes in it, call yourself a farmin' pwumbah

[DuckButter]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I think somebody's been slugging the friday night brewski's a wee bit much.

[PLUMBER RICK]

THIS WILL GET BATTED AROUND FOR AT LEAST 40 POSTS. I believe both are acceptable
Why is it labeled a vent tee,If it can't be used in that attitude? Ohh well I'm just a dumb Carpenter stirrin the RIDGID POT.

not a dumb carpenter:D but a good thought.

a vent tee and vent 90 are only made in plastic. in the old days there were durham vent 90's and tees.

problem with some of these fittings are they are more expensive. typically you would use them when space in an issue.

no hub doesn't have these fittings;)

rick.

[plumberscrack]

Withholding my comment on this thread until ToUtahNow chimes in to set everyone straight ;)

[NHMaster3015]

IP
905.2 Grade. All vent and branch vent pipes shall be so graded
and connected as to drain back to the drainage pipe by gravity.
Oents convey water vapor from the drainage system
and such vapor can condense in the vent piping. Also,
rainwater can enter a vent system at the vent termination.
Therefore, the vent must be graded (sloped) to the
drainage system, thus preventing any accumulation of
condensate or rainwater. The slope of a vent pipe does
not affect the movement of air inside the pipe. It makes
no difference if the vent piping is sloped to drain back to
the drain piping served by the vent or if the vent piping
slopes to drain to a vent stack or stack vent, provided
that water will not stand in any portion of the venting
system (see Figure 905.2).
Vent piping must be adequately supported to maintain
slope and prevent sagging.

I read through the code again and there is no reference at all to the proper positioning of a san tee fitting. Except this paragraph that says it must grade back to the waste which it would regardless of how the tee was installed. That said I usually put them upside down because I think they look better.

[stokefire7]

I look at it this way. If your venting two fixtures, you wouldn't have the outlets of both fittings facing each other. It would look flocked up.

[gear junkie]

Stoke, what kind of strapping system is that you use?

[NHMaster3015]

Looks like uni strut to me.

[gear junkie]

LOL, I guess I should be more specific, how is it anchored to the floor(don't say hilti shot or tapcons). What is the base for the unistrut?

[NHMaster3015]

LOL, I guess I should be more specific, how is it anchored to the floor(don't say hilti shot or tapcons). What is the base for the unistrut?

Those bases are made for uni strut. I get them at Fastenall but I'll bet your supply house can get them also. If you don't have a uni strut catalog, get one. They have some really great products.

[stokefire7]

Yes it's a strut base. 3/8 drop ins under the base. all thread. rough finish crete, grout bed for tile

[PLUMBER RICK]

Withholding my comment on this thread until ToUtahNow chimes in to set everyone straight ;)

bill, are you not trusting team geritol:rolleyes:

by the way, mark and i are on the same page if that helps.

i spoke to him last night:D

are you trying to get onto team juvenile:confused:

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

I had actually told Rick I was trying to stay out of this thread. All DWV must be installed in the direction of flow. We all know why that is true for the drain and waste but for those who do not know why that is true for vents it is so the the air can leave the system and the condensation can roll back down inside the system. A vent fitting does not have an upside down position as it is square. The fitting in the picture is not a vent tee it is a San-tee installed upside down. I believe true vent tees are only available today in plastic and Durham fittings.

Mark

[HVAC HAWK]

I had actually told Rick I was trying to stay out of this thread. All DWV must be installed in the direction of flow. We all know why that is true for the drain and waste but for those who do not know why that is true for vents it is so the the air can leave the system and the condensation can roll back down inside the system. A vent fitting does not have an upside down position as it is square. The fitting in the picture is not a vent tee it is a San-tee installed upside down. I believe true vent tees are only available today in plastic and Durham fittings.

Mark

and that is that Mark has spoken :D:D:D:bravo::bravo::thumbup2::thumbup2:

[toolaholic]

Thats' all fine an good .But WHAT'S A VENT? 6 more to go !

[PLUMBER RICK]

Thats' all fine an good .But WHAT'S A VENT? 6 more to go !

make that 5 and then put it to sleep:rolleyes:

rick.

[NHMaster3015]

Remembering the code says that the condensate must drain. It does not matter if it drains back tward the fixture served or tward the stack it connect to. Therefore the orientation of the tee sames no difference as the condensate will drain back either way. Again as far as air is concerned, it does not care about direction of flow either on whether or not there is restriction.

[ToUtahNow]

I believe the IPC says back to the drainage pipe (singular) as opposed to the drainage pipes and or drainage system. However, the UPC does in fact state "to the drainage pipe it serves".

Mark

[NHMaster3015]

The slope of a vent pipe does
not affect the movement of air inside the pipe. It makes
no difference if the vent piping is sloped to drain back to
the drain piping served by the vent or if the vent piping
slopes to drain to a vent stack or stack vent, provided
that water will not stand in any portion of the venting
system (see Figure 905.2).

[ToUtahNow]

The slope of a vent pipe does
not affect the movement of air inside the pipe. It makes
no difference if the vent piping is sloped to drain back to
the drain piping served by the vent or if the vent piping
slopes to drain to a vent stack or stack vent, provided
that water will not stand in any portion of the venting
system (see Figure 905.2).

I am assuming you mean Section 905.2 of the IPC.

Section 905.2: Grade. All vent and branch vent pipe shall be so graded and connected as to drain back to the drainage pipe by gravity.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one.

Mark

[NHMaster3015]

No, not disagreement at all. Just pointing out one of the many stupid things that pop up in the IPC.

I think that's why the exam is open book:D

[stokefire7]

This always gets me.
2003 IPC
section 904.4 Prohibited use. Vent terminals shall not be used as a flag pole or to support flag poles, television aerials or similar items, except when the piping has been anchored in an approved manner.:wave:

[DuckButter]

no, not disagreement at all. Just pointing out one of the many stupid things that pop up in the ipc.

i think that's why the exam is open book:d

What!?!?!!

[Tyman]

Thank you for all the information.

Toolaholic, sorry to disappoint you by starting this thread. I have a good amount of respect for most of plumbers on this forum. Feel free to start your own thread. ;)

Many times in plumbing I have found what one plumber holds true is nothing more than a old wives tale. Trying to break this barrier is often difficult as many plumbers know what they know, because they know what they know.

The reason I posted this thread was to learn something about venting and tee's and to settle the debate with my boss. However it seems we are both right.

The picture I posted is from a book I bought at Home Depot last week. It has some good information in it and some that is just plain wrong.

[gear junkie]

The picture I posted is from a book I bought at Home Depot last week. It has some good information in it and some that is just plain wrong.
Good ole Rex Cauldwell. If you want to see the defecation hit the oscillation rotor, post or ask about his under sink drainage system.

[NHMaster3015]

This always gets me.
2003 IPC
section 904.4 Prohibited use. Vent terminals shall not be used as a flag pole or to support flag poles, television aerials or similar items, except when the piping has been anchored in an approved manner.:wave:

What, you never saw a tv antenna strapped to a vent stack? Before cable we saw that on a regular basis.

Ducky, You didn't know NH gives the journeyman and masters test open book? And you all wonder why my bp's 185 over 130:D I fight this stupidity weekly.

[gear junkie]

What, you never saw a tv antenna strapped to a vent stack? Before cable we saw that on a regular basis.

Ducky, You didn't know NH gives the journeyman and masters test open book? And you all wonder why my bp's 185 over 130:D I fight this stupidity weekly.
Virginia is also open book. They don't bother to strap the atenna pole to the vent, they'll just place it inside the vent and after grinding the metal pole for 15 minutes, this will spring to their mind.

[DuckButter]

What, you never saw a tv antenna strapped to a vent stack? Before cable we saw that on a regular basis.

Ducky, You didn't know NH gives the journeyman and masters test open book? And you all wonder why my bp's 185 over 130:D I fight this stupidity weekly.

As I ready to take the NH test (god knows when) I was all prepped to have to memorize the major differences in the code...and there are some MAJOR differences.

[Tyman]

Good ole Rex Cauldwell. If you want to see the defecation hit the oscillation rotor, post or ask about his under sink drainage system.

:rotflmao1:

How did you know that he wrote that book? Good eye Gear Junkie!

[Tyman]

You asked for it. :D
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/yoda2be/scan0001.jpg

[MrsSeatDown]

Look how clean his hands are-those aren't plumber's hands:p

[Service Guy]

Wow, that is some ugly-looking piping to be proud of in a book! It looks similar to junk I cut out and repipe on a regular basis.:lol:

[ToUtahNow]

Thank you for all the information.

Toolaholic, sorry to disappoint you by starting this thread. I have a good amount of respect for most of plumbers on this forum. Feel free to start your own thread. ;)

Many times in plumbing I have found what one plumber holds true is nothing more than a old wives tale. Trying to break this barrier is often difficult as many plumbers know what they know, because they know what they know.

The reason I posted this thread was to learn something about venting and tee's and to settle the debate with my boss. However it seems we are both right.

The picture I posted is from a book I bought at Home Depot last week. It has some good information in it and some that is just plain wrong.

Actually you are right and your boss is wrong. You already posted the correct Code Section which proves it. I think it is time for you to get a raise.

Mark

[NHMaster3015]

Holy crap trap Batman, He actually took pictures of and published that in a book? That's the kind of work I'd blame on my brother in law.

[Service Guy]

It looks like cpvc glue was used on the joints! Hack attack! Not to mention the obvious lack of a cleanout access, which would annoy drain-cleaners down the road.

[DuckButter]

Holy crap trap Batman, He actually took pictures of and published that in a book? That's the kind of work I'd blame on my brother in law.

I think the pics are set up to allow Harry the happy homeowner to feel reel gud about his rubber plumbing prowess.

[gear junkie]

His undersink work was printed in Fine Homebuilding(I think that's the name-the parent company of fine woodworking) a couple months ago. I think someone posted about that too.

[toolaholic]

Hi Tyman , I'm guessing I must have offended You. That was never My intent! This is a great thread ,and I think many of Us learned a little something from it.
My experience ,when working in SF ,about 20 or so inspectors, is a few will add in their own preferences, on occasion . This won't be in the UPC or the city ammendments. Doesn't pay to make waves!

[Tyman]

Thanks Tool, all is good. :)