Sizing oil burner nozzles

[nypkh]

I have a Burnham v74 boiler rated at 135000 MBH and a Beckett AFG burner. I believe the unit is oversized for my house. Heat loss calculations give me a loss of appx 40,000/hr; at this time I have a tankless coil in the boiler for domestic hot water, which I believe would add about 50,000 btu/hr.
Is it possible to reduce the burner nozzle size if the unit is indeed oversized and is there any rule of thumb, or sizing charts that address this?

[JONESY]

Oil burner nozzles can be sized by dividing the BTUH of the burner by 140,000 if you are burning #2 fuel oil. Divide by about 135,000 if you are using kersoene. Example - 70,000 BTUH burner divided by 140,000 would equal a .50 nozzle. Make sure the spray pattern and the angle of spray are correct for the burner/combustion chamber design as well.

Later, Jonesy

[NHMaster3015]

Make sure the oil pump is set at 100lbs also. Increasing oil pump pressure increases gph. Many new burners are running 140 to 150 lbs with a smaller nozzle to achieve better atomization. Do not make any changes or adjustments to anything without a combustion analyzer either. You can't just look in the hole and judge the fire anymore.

[DuckButter]

Also, be certain if you hear any loud explosions, or smell anything burning, that you run for the nearest exit real fast.

[spodelee]

Also, be certain if you hear any loud explosions, or smell anything burning, that you run for the nearest exit real fast.

:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotfl mao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:

[nypkh]

I see my post has come up for discussion in other threads ( http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=162703#post162703), so let me explain a little what I'm looking for.

I've been a bus mechanic/foreman for 24 years and currently train mechanics. My background is mostly in bus electrical systems and most recently Hybrid electric systems, though I do have some diesel experience.
The reason I asked about sizing charts is that in our diesel engines we can vary horsepower output by installing different injectors and changing ECM calibrations; I haven't seen this data for burner nozzles and btu output, and wondered if there was an underlying reason for it (safety), and if it was possible at all.

Second, I'm not looking to do this myself, I realize I don't have the tools or enough knowledge to do it correctly or safely. I'm just looking for some unbiased information before approaching my oil company about the subject. Call me paranoid but I question if I'm going to get accurate info about reducing my oil consumption from the company selling me the oil.
Here on Long Island most of the smaller independant oil dealers have been gobbled up by the larger companies; it was one of these larger companies that installed the system 15 years ago without doing any heat loss calculations; again they were selling the oil so why should they care (oil was also a buck and change a gallon at the time so I didn't think much about it at the time either, my bad!).

NHMaster, thanks for the info about pump pressure. Another problem I find with the larger companies is that they don't always have the best and brightest tech's working for them (won't pay them enough). A couple of years ago, with my prior oil dealer (the one who installed the system) I was having a problem with the burner not lighting. One of the tech's solution was to boost the pump pressure to 140psi. On the 4th service call I finally got an oldtimer who found the igniter was weak, problem solved; but I don't think the pressure was ever returned to 100psi. So now on top of my boiler being oversized, it's probably being overfired also.

Lastly, I understand the reluctance some of you have about giving information away to a DIY'er. Again, I'm not looking for information about how to do it, only if it's possible or practical. Thanks!

[NHMaster3015]

Most oil companies have dedicated trained service guys. I can see where it might be good business to have customers use more oil than they need, but I've been around a lot of oil companies and a lot of service tech's over the years and I've never seen that attitude. Most of the guys are proud of the work they do. And I'm glad you're not going to work on your own burner. The slightest misadjustment to any number of things can open up a whole can of worms.

[nypkh]

Most oil companies have dedicated trained service guys. I can see where it might be good business to have customers use more oil than they need, but I've been around a lot of oil companies and a lot of service tech's over the years and I've never seen that attitude. Most of the guys are proud of the work they do. And I'm glad you're not going to work on your own burner. The slightest misadjustment to any number of things can open up a whole can of worms.

I've seen some very good service guys and some who just want to get in and get out. I haven't been with this company long enough to know the good ones yet and request them. When this contract is up I think I'll look for someone to just do service and buy the oil on spot. If anyone has recommendations I'd appreciate that also.

[DuckButter]

I've seen some very good service guys and some who just want to get in and get out. I haven't been with this company long enough to know the good ones yet and request them. When this contract is up I think I'll look for someone to just do service and buy the oil on spot. If anyone has recommendations I'd appreciate that also.

YES, call your local gas co and beg them to get service in your area!:eek:

Oil price vs gas is rediculous, I feel for ya.
Also, pardon my synicism...thank you for clarifying your not doing it yourself.
In your case, as a mechanic...you'd probably get the hang of it like second nature, but...and there's always a "but", if the slightest thing were done wrong at least the licensed guy would have the insurance to cover his mistake.

[nypkh]

YES, call your local gas co and beg them to get service in your area!:eek:

Oil price vs gas is rediculous, I feel for ya.
Also, pardon my synicism...thank you for clarifying your not doing it yourself.
In your case, as a mechanic...you'd probably get the hang of it like second nature, but...and there's always a "but", if the slightest thing were done wrong at least the licensed guy would have the insurance to cover his mistake.

They finally ran gas into my neighborhood about 5 years ago. And if oil prices continue to go through the roof it is something I'll consider when my contract is up in two years. However I may only be in this house another 8-10 years, so I don't know if it will pay. Right now I'm just trying to make what I have more efficient.
I've seen other threads here about Beckett's "Heat Manager" & Outside offsets and am considering those; as well as having an indirect HW tank installed. Any thoughts on those items as far as potential savings???

BTW no offense taken, like I said I understand your reservations about nozzle advice so I'll stay away from that topic.
Thanks again!

[Old Grunter]

You may want to think about changing to gas as a major home improvement. It should boost the value of your house and you should be able to get more when you do sell it sometime. To be rid of the stinky fuel oil and fumes will really make gas seem well worth the cost of changing over.

[NHMaster3015]

carefull there, I'm still a member of the oil heat council;)

[cpw]

I've seen some very good service guys and some who just want to get in and get out. I haven't been with this company long enough to know the good ones yet and request them. When this contract is up I think I'll look for someone to just do service and buy the oil on spot. If anyone has recommendations I'd appreciate that also.
You might be able to get them to reduce their price a lot on a lock if you call around. I've only been with my company two years, but they originally wanted to raise me from $2.699 to $3.899 this year. After I called around (average price was about $3.60) and got their largest competitor to agree to $3.299 they went for it. This year I think that lock (ceiling actually) has really paid off.

I've unfortunately had a lot of techs (all from Burke which is Meenan on LI), and liked most of them.

[cpw]

You may want to think about changing to gas as a major home improvement. It should boost the value of your house and you should be able to get more when you do sell it sometime. To be rid of the stinky fuel oil and fumes will really make gas seem well worth the cost of changing over.
You can do a bunch more with gas than oil (dryer, range, grill), but oil doesn't stink. And for space heating, they've been pretty competitive price wise over the long term. NG is probably cheaper now, but there is no competitition. Oil has competitition, but isn't going to be as regulated.

[Masterplumb]

You can do a bunch more with gas than oil (dryer, range, grill), but oil doesn't stink. And for space heating, they've been pretty competitive price wise over the long term. NG is probably cheaper now, but there is no competitition. Oil has competitition, but isn't going to be as regulated.

You must get special oil delivered up in Cortlandt Manor, every oil fired burner I've worked on had a smell. At least when the piping, tank or appliance was opened :D

[nypkh]

You might be able to get them to reduce their price a lot on a lock if you call around. I've only been with my company two years, but they originally wanted to raise me from $2.699 to $3.899 this year. After I called around (average price was about $3.60) and got their largest competitor to agree to $3.299 they went for it. This year I think that lock (ceiling actually) has really paid off.

I've unfortunately had a lot of techs (all from Burke which is Meenan on LI), and liked most of them.

Unfortunately I have one more year after this on the contract and the price calculation is laid out in the contract, really no wiggle room. I went with this company on a recommendation and it has benefited me two out of three years. We'll just have to see what happens with oil prices this year.
Historicallly gas and oil prices seem to seasaw so I don't just want to jump into a change to gas; it may cost me short term, but I should get a better read on the situation when my contract is up.

[cpw]

You must get special oil delivered up in Cortlandt Manor, every oil fired burner I've worked on had a smell. At least when the piping, tank or appliance was opened :D
But that happens like once a year. The other 364 days you don't smell anything because it is all enclosed. Gasoline smells too, but that doesn't mean your cars stink except when you are fueling them.

[Masterplumb]

But that happens like once a year. The other 364 days you don't smell anything because it is all enclosed. Gasoline smells too, but that doesn't mean your cars stink except when you are fueling them.

Dont go by me, I'm partial to gas. True story, when we were looking for a house my wife and I had a spat because I refused to buy a house that had oil heat and didn't have gas available in the area. It was a great house but I can't stand oil.

[cpw]

Dont go by me, I'm partial to gas. True story, when we were looking for a house my wife and I had a spat because I refused to buy a house that had oil heat and didn't have gas available in the area. It was a great house but I can't stand oil.
Gas is certainly more convenient, and in just 2 heating seasons I've become convinced that there is less to go wrong with a gas boiler than an oil one [you would know whether or not this is true better than I do]. Also oil with an underground tank is much more likely to cause an expensive ecological disaster.

[cpw]

Unfortunately I have one more year after this on the contract and the price calculation is laid out in the contract, really no wiggle room. I went with this company on a recommendation and it has benefited me two out of three years. We'll just have to see what happens with oil prices this year.
Historicallly gas and oil prices seem to seasaw so I don't just want to jump into a change to gas; it may cost me short term, but I should get a better read on the situation when my contract is up.
Good luck on your price for next year.

[Masterplumb]

Gas is certainly more convenient, and in just 2 heating seasons I've become convinced that there is less to go wrong with a gas boiler than an oil one [you would know whether or not this is true better than I do]. Also oil with an underground tank is much more likely to cause an expensive ecological disaster.

You also dont need the annual maintenance with gas. Even though the manufacturers recommend it every year, it really isn't necessary with gas. There is less to go wrong with gas plus it's a whole lot quieter.

[spodelee]

You also dont need the annual maintenance with gas. Even though the manufacturers recommend it every year, it really isn't necessary with gas. There is less to go wrong with gas plus it's a whole lot quieter.

OH KNOW, DON'T SAY THAT! SSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :rolling-eyes:

[NHMaster3015]

I didn't hear a thing...... and then Boom, upe went the whole damn house :D

[Masterplumb]

I didn't hear a thing...... and then Boom, upe went the whole damn house :D

There is no way that a new boiler is going to go boom because of lack of annual maintenance. There are way too many safety's on todays boiler. About the only thing that will happen is the efficiency will fall.

[Kneescar]

You can change to a smaller oil orifice.
A lot of equipment is rated in a range... The 5 year old Rheem furnaces we still have in the box in our shop are rated at 84-95,000 BTUH depending on which nozzle you install.
BUT! Here's the caveat: It would be incorrect to put in a .5 gph nozzle in that Rheem; it would be under-fired and you would have condensing problems. Boilers may be more forgiving because of their big mass of cast iron, but the manufacturer would state what nozzle size would be allowable.

[harrybrad]

The disclosure of "proved reserves" has been one of the great rituals of the reporting season for oil and gas companies, and one carefully monitored by investors. It's recently taken on even more significance with high and jittery prices, concerns about energy security, and plain fear of running out.
For more information visit: oil companies (http://www.lincenergy.us)

[nhmatt]

Hands down, gas is better than oil. The equipment is cheaper. The service is cheaper. The efficiency is better. The versatility is better. Its quieter. NO CONTEST. Even if you save a tiny bit over the cost of gas you still have to have a service tech come out every year, and a decent tech nowadays is not $50 bucks w/ an adjustable wrench and a soot vac. If you can't get gas then that's the only excuse to have oil, and that's my excuse. I've got two tanks and I'm hoping for another drop before I run out.

Now, there's a big difference between gas and propane. Propane is just plain stupid unless you live in a trailer. Or South of Virginia.

[servicefitter]

do your wallet a favor and get rid of oil burner and covert to nat gas or heat pump.:bash::bash::bash::bash:

[FINER9998]

over the years, several of the dry cleaning plants i've owned have had both gas and oil fired boilers. natural gas, if available, is the way to go.

[NHMaster3015]

do your wallet a favor and get rid of oil burner and covert to nat gas or heat pump.:bash::bash::bash::bash:

Hey now, there's still 1/3 more btu's in and equivilant amount of #2 fuel oil.

[cpw]

Hey now, there's still 1/3 more btu's in and equivilant amount of #2 fuel oil.

Not to mention you can't get natural gas everywhere, and heating any significant space with electricity is just crazy (at least at $.25kWh).

[BrandonG]

Hands down, gas is better than oil. The equipment is cheaper. The service is cheaper. The efficiency is better. The versatility is better. Its quieter. NO CONTEST. Even if you save a tiny bit over the cost of gas you still have to have a service tech come out every year, and a decent tech nowadays is not $50 bucks w/ an adjustable wrench and a soot vac. If you can't get gas then that's the only excuse to have oil, and that's my excuse. I've got two tanks and I'm hoping for another drop before I run out.

Now, there's a big difference between gas and propane. Propane is just plain stupid unless you live in a trailer. Or South of Virginia.




OIL 140,000 BTU'S........Gas......I Belive is 91,500? Per gallon if you do the math.....So You do the math

[ms40]

installing the indirect fired water heater would save you money if you don't convert to gas, a boiler with a tankless coil is 15% less eficent as a cold start boiler because you have a hot lump of cast that cools off and cycles when there is no hot water usage. a hot water maker is better insulated and can sit warm all day without calling for heat also if you stay with oil and chose not to use the watermaker use two boilers one with a domestic coil (lead boiler) and one without (lag boiler) and a staging control for example a weil mclain wtgo-3 and a wgo-4 and a bcp-3 staging control