The Hiring Process

[plumberscrack]

We desperately need new service plumbers but before I cast my line out and reel in some old tires I would like to get your ideas on the best way to handle the process.

In the past, when we needed someone, we look to the guys that were last laid off. I know, if they were any good in the first place they wouldn't likely have been laid off. But it's a known entity. You know what you are getting and they in turn know what to expect from the employer.

I can't see us going that route this time. I need fresh meat. Grade A USDA approved prime rib.

With a new administration coming to town, the 4th quarter of 2008 and 1st quarter 2009 will be booming for us. The upturn has actually started sooner than we thought. DC has a big broom sweeping the old dirt out of town.

How do you guys find quality workers? Do you approach them in supply houses hoping to lure them away from their current employers? I never liked that appoach but it has worked for us in the past.

Or do you place an ad in the paper and hope that one of a hundred that call are who you are looking for? I don't have the time or desire to prescreen every applicant.

Then, once hired, do you just hand them a company truck or do you let them ride around with another mechanic during the orientation period.

Most senior mechanics hate this but I have to know what we are getting before I place this guy in someones house all alone with the customer. The risk is huge and we have had some real sketchy plumbers come through here.

How do you filter out the weirdos, freaks, pervs, hacks, misfits, missing links, hot heads, pot heads, drunks, babies, whiners, tweakers, thieves and liars to get down to the 1 percent or less that are actually qualified to perform the job?

I might share some stories of past employees if you are interested ;)

Looking forward to some good input :help:

[DUNBAR]

Act like you get high on weed, drink beer regularly and smoke cigarrettes. Act like a buddy, old pal in the interviewing process and see if the guy warms up to the idea.



If he does, don't hire him.


Find somebody that "has" to work and has to support a family, minus the BS.


Oh and hire some smashingly hot secretary so you get caught messing around and that solves the hiring process altogether! :smash:


Hey at least it'll be fun while it lasts!

[MrsSeatDown]

Our friend use to place ads on Craigslist. They interviewed them, but also did background checks, including pulling their dmv record.

[PLUMBER RICK]

Our friend use to place ads on Craigslist. They interviewed them, but also did background checks, including pulling their dmv record.

i think it was 1 in 10 that actually panned out?


now back in the union days it was a 10 cent phone call:D

you know that's a long time ago as where do you find a 10 cent payphone now?

where do you even find a pay phone:D

even going that route, you still had a reject ratio as lots of the guys that sit around the hall were there not because work was slow:rolleyes:

bill, i'm too old to relocate, but thanks for the offer:wave2:

rick.

[HVAC HAWK]

i say look for some one just like me and you cant go wrong :clapping:

[NHMaster3015]

We usually steal them from the competition. It's kind of like musical chairs around here when the economy slows.

I like to put new guys with proven guys for a couple weeks to see how they work. Then I send them on a couple jobs by themselves and I check their work after they have left, not while they are there. I like to see what they think is acceptable and not hear excuses.

[plumberscrack]

bill, i'm too old to relocate, but thanks for the offer:wave2:

rick.


I need fresh meat. Grade A USDA approved prime rib.


Why do you think everything I post has to be about you? :rolling-eyes:

[PLUMBER RICK]

Why do you think everything I post has to be about you? :rolling-eyes:

only because mark is still sleeping and i beat him to the punch.

plus i gave you my cherry, can't you share the love:crying:

rick.

[HVAC HAWK]

plus i gave you my cherry, can't you share the love:crying:

rick.

thats enough talk like that rick you know it makes me mad :mad:

[MrsSeatDown]

He should know better than having everyone in the same room. . .it's risky:p

[spodelee]

Geez, where do I start?

I use careerbuilder.com, which may or may not be good in your area. I use careerbuilder because they have a relationship with our local newspaper and consequently, there is always allot of reference to careerbuilder in the newspaper, which seems to drive people to the site. You might want to take a look at your classified adds to see if a similar relationship exists with your largest circulation newspaper.

We post magnetic signs on a couple of our trucks:

NOW HIRING
Good People,
Pay & Benefits

I never hire during the first interview. I sleep on it and if I still have a good gut feel the following morning, I call and set-up another interview, preferably several days after the first interview. I want them to want the job and be willing to work for it. This technique costs me a good hire every once and a while (gets snatched up by a competitor while waiting for the next interview), but I usually find that if they are willing to take the first opportunity given without exploring their options, then they are usually not a career oriented candidate. I have broken this rule on a couple of occasions when I "just knew" he/she was a good fit.

Talk, talk and talk some more during the interview. More time spent talking equals more information given.

If on more than two occasions they moved on to another job within two years, I throw them out of the running. If they call again about the job after the first interview, then I might put them back in the running.

I created a placement test that has technical and philosophical questions. I tell the candidate that some of the questions do not have a right or wrong answer, just do the best that you can. The test gives me insight into their technical abilities, moral character and judgment.

I try to call not the last employer, but the one before that. The last employer won't tell you anything, but the one before that will tend to have looser lips because more time has passed.

I take note if they ask for directions on how to get to our shop - not good.

The driving record tells a lot about integrity - consistent violations = rebel / troublemaker

I can't directly ask the question, but if the candidate brings up his/her family life, I try to explore that as much as I can through casual conversation. Is their home life a mess? Recently divorced? Mid life crisis? Probable wage garnishments? Not all of this stuff is necessarily bad, but it gives me a feel for their psychological stability - it's one thing to be motivated by family obligations, and another to be de-motivated by an ex wife that calls him three times a day wanting to know when her next payment will be arriving in the mail. General character can also be found here.

I have not found drug testing to be particularly helpful. It's too easy to cheat the test, especially when hiring new.

The new hire rides with our best "paperwork pro journeyman" for no less than one month. I call that journeyman in about once per week and ask, "What do you think?

The training journeyman is instructed not to "teach" hvac. He is to teach our way of doing business. Whether or not the new hire knows what he is doing will come out in general conversation.

If we find a major fault withing the first month, I NEVER TRY TO SALVAGE THEM. I cut my losses and let him or her go; the sooner the better. We almost always know within two weeks when they are not a keeper.

Tried of writing now. Hope this helps.

[HVAC HAWK]

bill our co will not hire some one with long hair ,looks like a slob ,earrings and other things appearance is a big thing with them .
new people work with some one for some time to see if they do know what they are doing and did not say they know something they dont .

i can tell if some one is BS me about what they know

[PLUMBER RICK]

thats enough talk like that rick you know it makes me mad :mad:

i still love you charlie

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3502&d=1213334369 (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3502&d=1213334369)

rick:scratchhead:

[garager]

Place an ad in a trade magazine or two, if your looking for professionals do the magazines.....

Professionals read the trade magazines unless they find this forum, then they wouldn't have the time no more. Hire someone from in here...... :cool:

[Service Guy]

C'mon rick, let that picture die.
:barf:

[MrsSeatDown]

C'mon rick, let that picture die.
:barf:

I tried:rolleyes: I wouldn't tell him where to find it, but he was determined:eek:

[plumberscrack]

All good information thanks everyone who has contributed

Spodelee, I don't have the effort to put into every applicant that you do. I wish I did. We do use the Washington Post which has 100's of thousands in circulation. That may be is part of the problem. On the Monday after a Sunday ad, our phones are inundated with people calling about the ad. This includes career headhunters and plumbers wives calling to apply in place of their deadbeat husbands. Magnetic signs are on every truck without a single response in 2 years. One month or more as a ride along just isn't practical unless he's a helper.

I would love to hire someone from the Forum. Take Aaron91 for example. He would be a perfect fit for us. He's eager, has some skills and most importantly willing to learn. He hasn't been poisoned by years of bad habits. He might need to bulk up some :)

Hawk, unfortunately some of our best plumbers do have long hair, dangle earings and tattoos. It does scare some of the old ladies a bit but their personality usually wins them over and they get requested for the next service call.

Is your mustache within company regulations?:confused:

It is pretty easy to tell if someone is trying to BS their way into a better job. Sometimes all it takes is a peek at their tools and what condition they are in.

[Masterplumb]

I would add to your newspaper ad that you put in that you do drug/background/driving checks even if you dont. It'll keep away alot of riff-raff.

[spodelee]

All good information thanks everyone who has contributed

Spodelee, I don't have the effort to put into every applicant that you do. I wish I did. We do use the Washington Post which has 100's of thousands in circulation. That may be is part of the problem. On the Monday after a Sunday ad, our phones are inundated with people calling about the ad. This includes career headhunters and plumbers wives calling to apply in place of their deadbeat husbands. Magnetic signs are on every truck without a single response in 2 years. One month or more as a ride along just isn't practical unless he's a helper.

I would love to hire someone from the Forum. Take Aaron91 for example. He would be a perfect fit for us. He's eager, has some skills and most importantly willing to learn. He hasn't been poisoned by years of bad habits. He might need to bulk up some :)

Hawk, unfortunately some of our best plumbers do have long hair, dangle earings and tattoos. It does scare some of the old ladies a bit but their personality usually wins them over and they get requested for the next service call.

Is your mustache within company regulations?:confused:

It is pretty easy to tell if someone is trying to BS their way into a better job. Sometimes all it takes is a peek at their tools and what condition they are in.

One nice thing about an internet listing is that you can control how the applications come to you. I usually don't provide a phone number and make them use the online application or fax The head hunter and otherwise unqualified go directly into deleted items. A PO box for a written add will do the same thing.

We picked up one tech, one of our best, with the truck signs. Overall though, it doesn't perform very well. You just never know.

I'll add one more thought - consistency. If you can find a way to control the traffic (I understand your concern), a consistent help wanted presence will bring really good people in the door when least expected - I think it is caused by "buzz" when people in the trade talk for various reasons about whose hiring. Of course then you have to find a place for them whether you want them or not. That's when I get busy and start expanding the business again.

[DuckButter]

Interesting observation regarding one shop I worked for.
The owner intentially stayed away from hiring married or family oriented plumbers to keep health insurance costs down and he felt single guys were less worried about making more money.

Logistically he'd boiled it down to a shop full of drugged, hungover and half baked maroons that were constantly getting call backs on their work.

BUT...his immediate overhead was lower.

[NHMaster3015]

I like to keep them waiting in my office while I got outside and check their bumper for Hillery or Obama stickers:D

[spodelee]

Interesting observation regarding one shop I worked for.
The owner intentially stayed away from hiring married or family oriented plumbers to keep health insurance costs down and he felt single guys were less worried about making more money.

Logistically he'd boiled it down to a shop full of drugged, hungover and half baked maroons that were constantly getting call backs on their work.

BUT...his immediate overhead was lower.

LOL, I have been introduced to that concept and I agree, single/unattached guys make cheaper employees. Party!:have-fun:

I prefer a longer term approach. More quality people making top wages & benefit, but making a little less GP per man hour. Upside down I know, but I like to sleep well and training new people is EXPENSIVE. Also requires top notch customer service in order to be able to demand premium rates. Once I find a keeper, I do all that I can to keep'em.

[spodelee]

I like to keep them waiting in my office while I got outside and check their bumper for Hillery or Obama stickers:D

Had a guy bring a hand gun to an interview once. He sat down and placed a small canvas bag with a zipper on the table. I started my routine and got him talkin', and a talkin', and a talkin'. I asked him what was in the bag and he said, "Oh, that's for my CWP". I said, "CWP", what's that?" He said, "Ugh, well, you know, Concealed Weapons Permit"

The interview quickly ended.

I watched him leave and noticed a huge "Get'er Done" sticker and a rebel flag plastered across the the back window of his jacked-up 4X4 :eek::eek:. It was that day that I learned to go outside and look at a candidates vehicle while the candidate fills out his application!

[Tyman]

Interesting thread.

From a employee standpoint I tend to look at it this way.

If I see those signs on trucks that tell me they are hiring, I avoid that place. It tells me they have a high turn over rate. I know, it's not always true.

Secondly, I already know who I will work for in my area. The plumber world is small and if I hear of a employer consistently treating people bad I avoid them.

I will ask in the interview what the turn over rate is.

If I hear they cuss, scream and throw tantrums, I avoid them.

I will call he local supply house and ask my friends at the counter about the company and any money issues they have had. Do they consistently lay people off?

The plumbers in your area probably know about you and have already decided if they will work for you. Maybe not, D.C. is a big place. :D

My favorite way to become a employee of another company is to be approached by the owner. It feels good to be wanted.

I have been on plumbingagent.com in the past. It is a good way to get someone that is looking to make a move.

[DUNBAR]

Place an ad in a trade magazine or two, if your looking for professionals do the magazines.....

Professionals read the trade magazines unless they find this forum, then they wouldn't have the time no more. Hire someone from in here...... :cool:




Does the "Professional that reads the trade magazine, while sitting on the toilet, does that give extraordinary circumstance and qualification?"

[spodelee]

Does the "Professional that reads the trade magazine, while sitting on the toilet, does that give extraordinary circumstance and qualification?"

Not sure about added qualification, but definitely worth a couple years worth of experience! :lmao:

[garager]

Does the "Professional that reads the trade magazine, while sitting on the toilet, does that give extraordinary circumstance and qualification?"

Well I think you can answer that one for yourself, since you are a Professional correct.... :D

[DuckButter]

LOL, I have been introduced to that concept and I agree, single/unattached guys make cheaper employees. Party!:have-fun:

I prefer a longer term approach. More quality people making top wages & benefit, but making a little less GP per man hour. Upside down I know, but I like to sleep well and training new people is EXPENSIVE. Also requires top notch customer service in order to be able to demand premium rates. Once I find a keeper, I do all that I can to keep'em.

Three times I went to give him my notice.
The first time I got a raise & company truck.
Second I got another raise.
Third time I refused a raise, told him I was sick of working twice as hard to make up for laziness and stupidity, I walked.

Sometimes I regret the decision, I really liked the boss and his family, but inevitably it was the fuel to get me off on my own.

[spodelee]

Three times I went to give him my notice.
The first time I got a raise & company truck.
Second I got another raise.
Third time I refused a raise, told him I was sick of working twice as hard to make up for laziness and stupidity, I walked.

Sometimes I regret the decision, I really liked the boss and his family, but inevitably it was the fuel to get me off on my own.

Some are made to follow and others to lead. Either way, there is a place for everybody. That's the beauty of the American way!

[gear junkie]

I started in this business by answering an ad in the newspaper. If I remember right it went like "High school graduate, want to learn a trade? Need to be honest, nice and hard working, we'll teach you the rest". This was over 10 years ago so some the wording is fuzzy but you get the point.

This is how I started doing hvac. If I ever higher someone, I probably go the same route.