Sarah palin

[toolaholic]

She knocked one out of the park last night! She's My HERO !!

[garager]

She knocked one out of the park last night! She's My HERO !!

So what your really saying is that you have a huge crush on her..... :love2: :lmao:

She is cute...... :D

[wrench spinner]

I would!!! She is better than Hillary that is for darn sure!!!

[ToUtahNow]

This is not just about looks this is about what she says and does. I am very impressed with her so far. Let's see where this goes in the next 60-days.

Mark

[toolaholic]

I really belong in Alaska. I have nothing in common with the Ca. crowd. the $$s good, Weather great, best part is having a place in the sierras at 7000 ft. and 2 snowmobiles

[Rafael]

The dems are in trouble if this woman doesn't have anything too bad in her past.
In her speech she came across as smart, friendly, good natured, a mom and she has a sense of humor. She is also very attractive without looking trashy.
The dems are very aftraid, Look what the dems have for women:
Pelosi: Angry, humorless, bitchy, vindictive. Comes across as unhappy.
Feinstein: Angry, humorless, not smart.
Hillary: Angry, humorless and until recently bitchy.
They are all far from attractive and none come across as ever having been mom material.
People get elected on looks and attitude. Happy good looking people will more often than not beat angry unhappy people.
Just look at the pres elections since JFK, the happier more upbeat candidates always won.

[Dairylander]

The dems are in trouble if this woman doesn't have anything too bad in her past.
People get elected on looks and attitude. Happy good looking people will more often than not beat angry unhappy people.
Just look at the pres elections since JFK, the happier more upbeat candidates always won.
Wait, you're using this rationale to say that "the dems are in trouble"?
Have you seen Obama and McCain stand side by side?

[Rafael]

Wait, you're using this rationale to say that "the dems are in trouble"?
Have you seen Obama and McCain stand side by side?

Yes, I have.
That is why the reps will be putting Palin out there as much as possible. Her speech got more press than Obamas. Timing is a big deal, she is here at the right time.
Also, Obama is starting to drone. he needs to stop droning if he expects to win. He is starting to sound like a nagging wife.

[Dairylander]

Also, Obama is starting to drone. he needs to stop droning if he expects to win. He is starting to sound like a nagging wife.
Wait, you're using the word "drone" to criticize Obama?
Have you heard McCain speak?

[Rafael]

Yes, I've heard him speak, which is why you will be seeing a lot more of Palin.
Do you know the story of Cyrano D'bergerac? This is kind of an upside down version of it.

[stxrus]

THIS REALLY SCAErS ME!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs

steve

[ToUtahNow]

THIS REALLY SCAErS ME!!


steve

Which part scares you? Close to 90% of this country believes in a higher power. The ones who scare me are the closet believers who pretend there opinions are not affected by their beliefs.

Mark

[Tyman]

This is the most disappointing election I have ever seen. I wish neither side would get elected.

Politics

Poly= many
Ticks= blood sucking insects

[stxrus]

Which part scares you? Close to 90% of this country believes in a higher power.

Mark

whats acare me is the person who could be a hearbeat away from the presidency believes that the iraq war is part of some diety's plan.

give a listen to Dylan's "With God On Our Side"

steve

[HouseOfAtlas]

This is the most disappointing election I have ever seen. I wish neither side would get elected.

Politics

Poly= many
Ticks= blood sucking insects

LOL! I agree. If you watch some of Ron Paul's speeches, you might be amazed. He doesn't change his views on things.

It's just sad that there are a lot of people in the middle (usually leaning more towards Republican or Democrat) that are too scared to go in the middle because they are scared of wasting their vote.

Everyone wants change, but I don't hear how the candidates will make change. Obama says that there will be a national health care plan, yet he doesn't explain how exactly it will happen. Is he going to raise taxes for everyone to accommodate for it (like a socialist country) or what?

I remember a debate between Kerry and Bush and the guy asking the questions asked both of them about something and neither one actually answered the question and the guy asking the questions even said that.

[ToUtahNow]

LOL! I agree. If you watch some of Ron Paul's speeches, you might be amazed. He doesn't change his views on things.

It's just sad that there are a lot of people in the middle (usually leaning more towards Republican or Democrat) that are too scared to go in the middle because they are scared of wasting their vote.

Everyone wants change, but I don't hear how the candidates will make change. Obama says that there will be a national health care plan, yet he doesn't explain how exactly it will happen. Is he going to raise taxes for everyone to accommodate for it (like a socialist country) or what?

I remember a debate between Kerry and Bush and the guy asking the questions asked both of them about something and neither one actually answered the question and the guy asking the questions even said that.

Keep in mind a whole bunch of people voted for Clinton in 1992 because he promised universal health care within the first 100-days of his presidency. If it worked 16-years ago why not try it again? It's not like anyone will hold you to it.

Mark

[cpw]

LOL! I agree. If you watch some of Ron Paul's speeches, you might be amazed. He doesn't change his views on things.
Ron Paul Rocks! I voted for him in the primary.

[Dairylander]

Which part scares you? Close to 90% of this country believes in a higher power. The ones who scare me are the closet believers who pretend there opinions are not affected by their beliefs.

Mark
I myself am one of those 90% and am deeply offended that anyone would claim that Jesus supports dropping bombs on people.

[DuckButter]

My problem with Palin is this:

Why is it ok for my wife to say she'd drop me in a flash and marry Ben Aflick if he offered, yet if I say the same about Palin, I get the silent treatment for two days?

Seriously, she is pretty formidable compared to Obama...brings me to question why she isn't running in the first place when Obama is.

[plumberscrack]

My problem with Palin is this:

Why is it ok for my wife to say she'd drop me in a flash and marry Ben Aflick if he offered, yet if I say the same about Palin, I get the silent treatment for two days?

Seriously, she is pretty formidable compared to Obama...brings me to question why she isn't running in the first place when Obama is.

After a few more years of marriage, the silent treatment will become desirable :wink:

[stxrus]

My problem with Palin is this:

Why is it ok for my wife to say she'd drop me in a flash and marry Ben Aflick if he offered, yet if I say the same about Palin, I get the silent treatment for two days?

because women own half the money and ALL of the (you know what i mean ;))

steve

[ToUtahNow]

I myself am one of those 90% and am deeply offended that anyone would claim that Jesus supports dropping bombs on people.

I must have missed that part of the clip as I never heard her say that. As for Jesus supporting the elimination of evil I will let you make the call. I have always been of the opinion those who felt all believers of Jesus should die do not care what Jesus supports.

Mark

[Dairylander]

I must have missed that part of the clip as I never heard her say that.
Palin is a self proclaimed Christian, baptized in the Pentacostal church.
She then goes on record saying that the war is a "task from God."
That's pretty clear if you ask me.

From the Christian crusades to modern day Jihad, there is no greater oxymoron than "holy war."

[DuckButter]

After a few more years of marriage, the silent treatment will become desirable :wink:

It is now.:mad:

[DuckButter]

because women own half the money and ALL of the (you know what i mean ;))

steve

Yeah, sigh, unfortunately I do.

[DuckButter]

Palin is a self proclaimed Christian, baptized in the Pentacostal church.
She then goes on record saying that the war is a "task from God."
That's pretty clear if you ask me.

From the Christian crusades to modern day Jihad, there is no greater oxymoron than "holy war."

Though I agree that religion and politics should be entirely seperated, not sure why your comparing her to the chriistian crusades or Jihads.

I also would like to see where you'll find a politician that is qualified and has no beliefs.

[Dairylander]

Though I agree that religion and politics should be entirely seperated, not sure why your comparing her to the chriistian crusades or Jihads.
She has claimed that the Iraq war is a "task from God."
War in the name of God.
That is the very definition of a crusade.

[NHMaster3015]

I was gonna get all wound up and climb the soap box but I'm just too damn tired to find the ladder.

You will all question my dedication to the republican Party but I have to say, honestly that though Sarah Palin is lovley to look at, and a pretty good solliquist, she is after all, just another face.

[stxrus]

I was gonna get all wound up and climb the soap box but I'm just too damn tired to find the ladder.

You will all question my dedication to the republican Party but I have to say, honestly that though Sarah Palin is lovley to look at, and a pretty good solliquist, she is after all, just another face.

and a nice set of fake boobs :jumping:

steve

[NHMaster3015]

Got proof?:idea2:

[Masterplumb]

Got proof?:idea2:

Dont need proof. Only need proof if it's about the Dems.

[stxrus]

Dont need proof. Only need proof if it's about the Dems.

:nanner::nanner::nanner::deadhorse:

you guys crack me up :smile2:

steve

[Bob D.]

Politics

Poly= many
Ticks= blood sucking insects


Good one Tyman.

[Dairylander]

9 of the 44 U.S. vice presidents have gone on to be president.
That means there is a 1 in 5 chance that this woman could be the leader of the free world.

[stokefire7]

is that a 760 pumpmaster i see

[Frankiarmz]

Was that really her? Five kids and WOW! She's got my vote.

[fixitmom5x]

I like McCain after listening to him speak at the RNC. I believe after all he has experienced he has our troops best interest at heart, and is appreciative of what has been done for him in this country. I think he will do really well if president.
I thought neither candidate was right for the job before I heard him speak, but now I feel McCain is right.
Palin spoke well too, I feel she was a smart speaker, hit all the right notes, and I believe she is a very accomplished woman, but I wonder how a mother of 5 will have time for the PTA, be a hockey mom, be supportive of her young children, provide extra attention to her special needs child who may need extra attention she is not even aware of yet because he is a baby, and be the vice president too.
I would like to hear her answers to these questions.
Caryn

[ToUtahNow]

9 of the 44 U.S. vice presidents have gone on to be president.
That means there is a 1 in 5 chance that this woman could be the leader of the free world.

Lets see a 20% chance she could become President versus a 100% chance Obama could be President .........I think I will take my chances.

Mark

[wrench spinner]

All i can see is she looks better in a bikini than Biden. Besides what is wrong with that picture? It is a woman having fun with her family? I mean its not like shes holding a crackpipe!

[Frankiarmz]

All i can see is she looks better in a bikini than Biden. Besides what is wrong with that picture? It is a woman having fun with her family? I mean its not like shes holding a crackpipe!

Nothing wrong with that picture and can we put to rest all this talk about her being a crack whore! She's a wife, Mom and accomplished politician!
Regarding McCain, after hearing him talk I'm positive he is not right for President. He promised the world and I do not believe he can deliver on anything. All that talk about free markets is a dream. President Bush tried to restrict foreign steel comming in years ago and was threatened with a boycott, he backed down. We have a massive trade deficit because we consume the world's goods with no restrictions but the world is closed to ours. I also did not like McCain's slur against Unions! I believe if Unions continue to lose strength we will end up with a society that mirrors that of the third world. Unions raised the standard of living in this country and made for safer and less harassing workplaces, they deserve praise. McCain lost my vote and Obama does not deserve it either. Believe what you will but in my opinion nothing will change for the better. I sincerely hope I am wrong because I want to see us back on track.

[Dairylander]

Was that really her? Five kids and WOW! She's got my vote.
No, it's not really her. It's Photoshop. But I still think it's a funny caricature of how the Repubs have presented her.
History says that the vice presidential nominee carries little weight in the election.
However, McCain's grandfather died at age 61, and his father died at age 70. So due to McCain's age of 71 and 5 time cancer battle, the person who's next-in-line for the job may be a bit more important this election.
I'm in no way implying he's going to buy the farm soon, but if he gets two terms, as he approaches 80 years-old there may be some time where Palin is answering the phone at 3 a.m.

[ToUtahNow]

No, it's not really her. It's Photoshop. But I still think it's a funny caricature of how the Repubs have presented her.
History says that the vice presidential nominee carries little weight in the election.
However, McCain's grandfather died at age 61, and his father died at age 70. So due to McCain's age of 71 and 5 time cancer battle, the person who's next-in-line for the job may be a bit more important this election.
I'm in no way implying he's going to buy the farm soon, but if he gets two terms, as he approaches 80 years-old there may be some time where Palin is answering the phone at 3 a.m.

There in lies the problem. When the VP nominee of the Republican Party is more qualified to be President than the Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. It will be a sad day if either McCain gets in and dies during office or Obama gets in and does not die during office.

Mark

[Rafael]

The pic is photoshopped. It's obvious by the 2 different skin tones where the neck meets the body, the dots are a dead giveaway.

[Frankiarmz]

There in lies the problem. When the VP nominee of the Republican Party is more qualified to be President than the Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. It will be a sad day if either McCain gets in and dies during office or Obama gets in and does not die during office.

Mark

Mark, I support you right to free speech but to wish Obama death if he is our President is low. How about this, I wish a quick and painless death to all those who reach such a position of power and do nothing to help the American public? Don't make campaign promises you cannot keep. The trade deficit, economy, loss of jobs and oil crisis along with the illegals did not happen suddenly. Both parties have ruined our country and I don't believe that now for some reason either will come to the rescue. No doubt the American public has greatly contributed to this mess, buying homes they knew they could not afford, buying on credit , cars and electronics on a whim. Do the politicians understand the seriousness of the situation? Does the general public understand? How about the CEO's they can keep seeking cheap labor and a safe harbor from the EPA and OSHA, but who will be able to afford their products if we don't have those jobs, if we are forced to pay double for our fuel and food? We need more than McCain or Obama making promises.

[Dairylander]

No, it's not really her. It's Photoshop. But I still think it's a funny caricature of how the Repubs have presented her.

I found the source of the pic:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/palin.asp

[ToUtahNow]

Mark, I support you right to free speech but to wish Obama death if he is our President is low. How about this, I wish a quick and painless death to all those who reach such a position of power and do nothing to help the American public? Don't make campaign promises you cannot keep. The trade deficit, economy, loss of jobs and oil crisis along with the illegals did not happen suddenly. Both parties have ruined our country and I don't believe that now for some reason either will come to the rescue. No doubt the American public has greatly contributed to this mess, buying homes they knew they could not afford, buying on credit , cars and electronics on a whim. Do the politicians understand the seriousness of the situation? Does the general public understand? How about the CEO's they can keep seeking cheap labor and a safe harbor from the EPA and OSHA, but who will be able to afford their products if we don't have those jobs, if we are forced to pay double for our fuel and food? We need more than McCain or Obama making promises.

I was not wishing anyone death as we were dealing with hypothetical scenarios. The problem is when people state they are worried about McCain dying and leaving Palin in charge I have to point out between Palin and Obama I believe Palin is more qualified. Now if you want to compare Bidens qualifications against Palins qualification Biden wins hands down.

Mark

[Frankiarmz]

I was not wishing anyone death as we were dealing with hypothetical scenarios. The problem is when people state they are worried about McCain dying and leaving Palin in charge I have to point out between Palin and Obama I believe Palin is more qualified. Now if you want to compare Bidens qualifications against Palins qualification Biden wins hands down.

Mark

Explain it however you want, your words were, a sad day if Obama gets in and doesn't die. Did I really read that wrong or misunderstand? Personally I don't care if they all die if when they get in it is business as usual and we keep losing ground!

[Masterplumb]

I like McCain after listening to him speak at the RNC. I believe after all he has experienced he has our troops best interest at heart, and is appreciative of what has been done for him in this country. I think he will do really well if president.
I thought neither candidate was right for the job before I heard him speak, but now I feel McCain is right.
Palin spoke well too, I feel she was a smart speaker, hit all the right notes, and I believe she is a very accomplished woman, but I wonder how a mother of 5 will have time for the PTA, be a hockey mom, be supportive of her young children, provide extra attention to her special needs child who may need extra attention she is not even aware of yet because he is a baby, and be the vice president too.
I would like to hear her answers to these questions.
Caryn

Im suprised at your questioning of her motherly responsibilities? Why should she have to answer things about raising her family to the public? It is a sexist question you raise.

What makes you believe that her husband is unable to raise their family while his wife is at "work"? I don't get it.

Nobody questioned Joe Biden when after his wife was tragically killed and he was still a senator? He was a SINGLE father who rode the train from Delaware to D.C. everyday. Who rased his children? Why is there a double standard?

[Masterplumb]

9 of the 44 U.S. vice presidents have gone on to be president.
That means there is a 1 in 5 chance that this woman could be the leader of the free world.

I love it. You guys dont realize that all this "negative publicity" is what's gonna give our side victory? Keep talking about her 17 year old daughters pregnancy and how she fired some child molester state trooper and yada yada yada.

[cpw]

I love it. You guys dont realize that all this "negative publicity" is what's gonna give our side victory? Keep talking about her 17 year old daughters pregnancy and how she fired some child molester state trooper and yada yada yada.

Her BIL wasn't a child molester. He was an idiot who tasered his nephew (after his nephew asked for it). He also drank in his squad car and hunted out of season. He should have been fired, but lets not overreach here.

[Masterplumb]

Her BIL wasn't a child molester. He was an idiot who tasered his nephew (after his nephew asked for it). He also drank in his squad car and hunted out of season. He should have been fired, but lets not overreach here.

Its not that far of a reach.

[Service Guy]

Sara Palin seems to be a moron. Literally.

Here is a funny editorial about her incredible inexperience:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20080904/cm_ucru/sarahpalinqueenofthenobodies

This quote from the article is quite telling:
Asked about rumors the Alaska governor was being considered as McCain's running mate, she told CNBC: "As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we're trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.":confused:

"Working real hard"? Doesn't the University of Idaho require its graduates to learn English? Does she know that she isn't running for VP of Alaska? Or that the VP presides over the Senate? With the nation facing enormous economic, political and military challenges, do we need another numbnut in the White House?

Not McCain's best choice...:(
__________________

[ToUtahNow]

Sara Palin seems to be a moron. Literally.

Here is a funny editorial about her incredible inexperience:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20080904/cm_ucru/sarahpalinqueenofthenobodies

This quote from the article is quite telling:


Not McCain's best choice...:(
__________________

Just for the fun of it I would like to see a list of everything Obama has done since he was elected to the Illinois State Senate 9-years ago versus every Palin has done since she was elected to the city council 16-years ago. No one seems to agree who is better qualified but it seems the information should be available.

Mark

[Service Guy]

Experience.... What About IQ?:)

[Service Guy]

Just for the fun of it I would like to see a list of everything Obama has done since he was elected to the Illinois State Senate 9-years ago versus every Palin has done since she was elected to the city council 16-years ago. No one seems to agree who is better qualified but it seems the information should be available.

Mark

Good point Mark. The guy that wrote that editorial is also quite critical of Obama in other articles he's written.

[ToUtahNow]

Good point Mark. The guy that wrote that editorial is also quite critical of Obama in other articles he's written.

Yeah I would like to find a non-partisan review of both as I don't trust the spin either camp ads to stuff. The part I've yet to figure out is why Palin is causing such a distraction to the DNC. It seems they would be better off ignoring her and trying to prove they are the ones to vote for. I believe Palin is the best thing to happen to McCain and he will sink or swim by his decision.

Mark

[fixitmom5x]

MasterPlumb, 2 of my 5 children are special needs children. One has Autism, and one has Aspergers. I never knew when they were infants how much attention they were going to need from me, even with their father being available. Special needs children need a lot of attention, and Sarah Palin has no idea how much attention her special needs child will need from her in 3 years with medical testing, individual education planning, behavior modification, occupational therapy, and much much more. Even with dad there she will have to be a big part of that process. Can she do that being vice president? Having special needs children, I'm not so sure.:confused:

[Dairylander]

Im suprised at your questioning of her motherly responsibilities? Why should she have to answer things about raising her family to the public? It is a sexist question you raise.
Woah, Masterplumb, out of line.
Re-read FixitMom's first post and you'll see she's not asking "how can a mom with a family be vice pres?" She's saying how can ANY parent with five children, including an infant with Down syndrome, be vice president.
It's not like being Governor in Alaska, where you go home at five'o'clock every day to help the kids with their homework. Her husband is a production operator for British Petroleum and a commercial fisherman that made $92,000 last year. So he isn't exactly a stay-at-home dad. So for her to be vice pres in Washington 4,000 miles away from home is to basically dis-own her kids for 4 or 8 years.
And this would be from a candidate running on a "family values" platform.

[Masterplumb]

MasterPlumb, 2 of my 5 children are special needs children. One has Autism, and one has Aspergers. I never knew when they were infants how much attention they were going to need from me, even with their father being available. Special needs children need a lot of attention, and Sarah Palin has no idea how much attention her special needs child will need from her in 3 years with medical testing, individual education planning, behavior modification, occupational therapy, and much much more. Even with dad there she will have to be a big part of that process. Can she do that being vice president? Having special needs children, I'm not so sure.:confused:

Actually her sister has a 13 year old with down syndrome. Im sure her sister tells her what is involved and can guide her, thats what family does. I come from a family that had a special needs child too. It certainly takes a special person to raise one. Maybe they will hire 2 full time nanny's? Its really none of our business is it? The public has no right questioning family life.

[Masterplumb]

Woah, Masterplumb, out of line.
Re-read FixitMom's first post and you'll see she's not asking "how can a mom with a family be vice pres?" She's saying how can ANY parent with five children, including an infant with Down syndrome, be vice president.
It's not like being Governor in Alaska, where you go home at five'o'clock every day to help the kids with their homework. Her husband is a production operator for British Petroleum and a commercial fisherman that made $92,000 last year. So he isn't exactly a stay-at-home dad. So for her to be vice pres in Washington 4,000 miles away from home is to basically dis-own her kids for 4 or 8 years.
And this would be from a candidate running on a "family values" platform.

I appreciate you trying to set me straight but no thanks. I knew her story from her post. The public has no right to question Palin's family life. And so you really think he is still going to stay in Alaska and go to work in the oil fields? Use your head.

[Dairylander]

Maybe they will hire 2 full time nanny's? Its really none of our business is it? The public has no right questioning family life.
You're missing the point. It's not whether she has special needs kids or some crazy baptist minister that criticizes America, it's that she is one more politician who is making lofty promises that don't seem to mesh with daily reality.
-Palin is all about family values, but will have 2 full time nannies?
-McCain the "maverick" who will bring change to Washington, yet has voted with Bush 95% of the time?
-Obama, who has promised tax cuts for 98% of Americans, while reducing our national deficit?

[Masterplumb]

You're missing the point. It's not whether she has special needs kids or some crazy baptist minister that criticizes America, it's that she is one more politician who is making lofty promises that don't seem to mesh with daily reality.
-Palin is all about family values, but will have 2 full time nannies?
-McCain the "maverick" who will bring change to Washington, yet has voted with Bush 95% of the time?
-Obama, who has promised tax cuts for 98% of Americans, while reducing our national deficit?

So you are saying every family that has 2 working spouses and is able to hire a nanny has no "family values"? Interesting.

Nice Democratic talking point about McCain/Bush. We have talking points too, should I list them now?

Keep believing that crap about tax cuts. Yes he proposes to cut INCOME TAX on many Americans, but he is going to get the money by raising the death tax, makin ALL profit taxable with capital gains taxes when you sell your home. He is going to tax corporations like never before. Tell me something, when corporations get taxed who pays for it? So yes income tax MAY go down but that money will fly out of your hand and bank faster then you ever imagined. I hope we never see that day.

[Dairylander]

Keep believing that crap about tax cuts. Yes he proposes to cut INCOME TAX on many Americans, but he is going to get the money by raising the death tax, makin ALL profit taxable with capital gains taxes when you sell your home.
Dude, re-read my post, but this time a little slower.
All three of those examples, INCLUDING the one about Obama, are SARCASTIC CRITICISMS.
Note the question marks at the end of the sentences.

[Dairylander]

So you are saying every family that has 2 working spouses and is able to hire a nanny has no "family values"? Interesting.
And yes, I am saying that any parents that can afford 2 full time nannies are more interested in money or ambition than raising their own children.

[Masterplumb]

Dude, re-read my post, but this time a little slower.
All three of those examples, INCLUDING the one about Obama, are SARCASTIC CRITICISMS.
Note the question marks at the end of the sentences.

Ok, so I didnt see the question marks at the end. I guess thats the beauty of having a debate over the computer.

Well Obama still sucks :D

[Masterplumb]

And yes, I am saying that any parents that can afford 2 full time nannies are more interested in money or ambition than raising their own children.

How many children do you have?

[fixitmom5x]

Whoa, let me put on my boxing gloves:joyful:!
MasterPlumb, I am all for having a nanny. If a nanny can help children get more individual attention, I think that is good.
Even with a nanny, or 2 nannies, or 10 nannies, I am concerned that she will need to be there for her children in times when the country will need her, or vice versa. There are some times when a nanny cannot replace a mother.

[Frankiarmz]

Good morning everyone, the most negative guy in the world is here! I'd give palin a pass on the nanny situation because if she is going to be vice president, her family will need the help and will have to take a back seat. I think our society has suffered by having both parents out of the home and not raising their own children. Quality time does not make up for a volume of time and all the little opportunities to bond and "Parent". One point about corporations lashing out in the event they are taxes more, they should have thought before moving millions of jobs to third world countries for cheaper labor and an oasis from the EPA and OSHA. Instead of worrying about the corporations turn your focus towards the American workers and consumers, they are the ones who buy the autos and high end electronics not those hard working folks in the third world. Our legislators should have stepped in years ago and laid the law down to the corporations, instead of passing NAFTA there should have been massive penalties for every single job sent out of the country. The price for free trade has been the largest trade deficit in our history as other markets remain closed or severely restricted for our goods while we remain open and willing. The price for all that cheap labor was higher profits for the corporations and a massive loss of American jobs. The price for trading oil futures on the market and no attempt to limit the profits to big oil is what we are seeing today and it is tragic! Where is the common sense in our government? We are talking about an essential commodity, refined oil products are as important to our survival as air and water. Take your pick Obama or McCain, neither will make good on all those promises.

[Masterplumb]

Whoa, let me put on my boxing gloves:joyful:!
MasterPlumb, I am all for having a nanny. If a nanny can help children get more individual attention, I think that is good.
Even with a nanny, or 2 nannies, or 10 nannies, I am concerned that she will need to be there for her children in times when the country will need her, or vice versa. There are some times when a nanny cannot replace a mother.

Yes that is true. From what I get the husband will be the stay at home parent. I think she knows what the job as VP entails and the demands it will require. The Palin family obviously feels comfortable with it and feels that it can be done. Who are you to second guess their decision? Would you like it if someone that didnt know your family questioned your family's parenting? I think that would be out of line, dont you?

[Masterplumb]

Good morning everyone, the most negative guy in the world is here! I'd give palin a pass on the nanny situation because if she is going to be vice president, her family will need the help and will have to take a back seat. I think our society has suffered by having both parents out of the home and not raising their own children. Quality time does not make up for a volume of time and all the little opportunities to bond and "Parent". One point about corporations lashing out in the event they are taxes more, they should have thought before moving millions of jobs to third world countries for cheaper labor and an oasis from the EPA and OSHA. Instead of worrying about the corporations turn your focus towards the American workers and consumers, they are the ones who buy the autos and high end electronics not those hard working folks in the third world. Our legislators should have stepped in years ago and laid the law down to the corporations, instead of passing NAFTA there should have been massive penalties for every single job sent out of the country. The price for free trade has been the largest trade deficit in our history as other markets remain closed or severely restricted for our goods while we remain open and willing. The price for all that cheap labor was higher profits for the corporations and a massive loss of American jobs. The price for trading oil futures on the market and no attempt to limit the profits to big oil is what we are seeing today and it is tragic! Where is the common sense in our government? We are talking about an essential commodity, refined oil products are as important to our survival as air and water. Take your pick Obama or McCain, neither will make good on all those promises.

Good morning Mr. Negative. This is going to probably piss some people off here but.....Maybe it's the unions fault that jobs are sent over seas. Companies are not here for charity they are here to make a profit. Maybe they feel they can get better cheaper labor in other countries. This generation of workers i.e. todays people entering the workforce are lazy and want the most money for the littlest work.

[fixitmom5x]

Yes that is true. From what I get the husband will be the stay at home parent. I think she knows what the job as VP entails and the demands it will require. The Palin family obviously feels comfortable with it and feels that it can be done. Who are you to second guess their decision? Would you like it if someone that didnt know your family questioned your family's parenting? I think that would be out of line, dont you?

No, I don't think that is out of line. It is our position do decide whether we think she wil be a good vp. That is why we get to vote. I am not questioning her parenting, I am questioning her ability to be able to handle both positons.

I am not sure she does know what the vp job entails, she said so herself. Take a look;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ

[Masterplumb]

No, I don't think that is out of line. It is our position do decide whether we think she wil be a good vp. That is why we get to vote. I am not questioning her parenting, I am questioning her ability to be able to handle both positons.

I am not sure she does know what the vp job entails, she said so herself. Take a look;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ

Nice spin. I dont disagree with questioning weather she will be a good vp or not but why do you think only she can raise the kids and not her husband with help? You questioned her being able to raise her kids while being vp not weather she would be a good vp. Why dont you ask how B.H.Obama will be able to be president and raise his kids?

What is the date on that interview? I believe it was before she was named? It's none of your business what kind of mother she will be. I bet you wouldnt like those Q's pointed towards you.

[ToUtahNow]

LOL-That video is total spin.

Mark

[Service Guy]

To be fair, Biden is not the greatest VP choice either imo. He's very experienced and smart, but he's borderline socialist on some of his views on the issues. More extreme than Obama or most democrats for that matter. I was overall displeased with the VP picks this year. I was hoping McCain and Obama both would pick someone more moderate. Instead Obama picked an extreme left-winger, and McCain picked an extreme right-winger. Not good news if you are moderate like me.
Maybe I'll vote third-party this year, although none of them are too impressive either.

[ToUtahNow]

Here is a Republican spin on Biden. I guess that means the Democrats should shut down their campaign and go home.

Mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV14xqelWxY

[Masterplumb]

Biden the racist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rXe4lPrv4U

[fixitmom5x]

Her husband has a job. Even with him there, the kids sometimes need mom too.
You questioned her being able to raise her kids while being vp not weather she would be a good vp. Why dont you ask how B.H.Obama will be able to be president and raise his kids?

I would, if Obama had 5 kids, of which one was an infant with Down Syndrome who needed more care than the average child.

It was before she was named, but it was while when McCain was looking for a running mate, and there was only a short time between then and now to go over the details of what the VP handles. Hope she got it all.

I don't care what kind of mother she will be. I only care how it will reflect her ability to tend to her functions in the whitehouse.


I would not like those questions pointed towads me, but if I am not running for VP. If I were I would expect questions as to whether I would be able to adhere to the busy VP schedule when having such a big family with a special needs child whom might require additional attention that may take time away from the whitehouse. :rant-on:

[Masterplumb]

I would not, but if I am not running for VP. If I were I would expect questions as to whether I would be able to adhere to the busy VP schedule when having such a big family with a special needs child whom might require additional attention that may take time away from the whitehouse. :rant-on:

And again I will ask you why you think the husband can not raise the children?Do you feel only women can raise children? Answer please.

[fixitmom5x]

And again I will ask you why you think the husband can not raise the children?Do you feel only women can raise children? Answer please.

I think either parent can raise their children, and no I do not feel only women can raise children.
It has been said that her husband is a commercial fisherman, and is away for lengths of time.

[Frankiarmz]

Good morning Mr. Negative. This is going to probably piss some people off here but.....Maybe it's the unions fault that jobs are sent over seas. Companies are not here for charity they are here to make a profit. Maybe they feel they can get better cheaper labor in other countries. This generation of workers i.e. todays people entering the workforce are lazy and want the most money for the littlest work.

As a Union man it does not piss me off, I take your words as small minded ignorance. Keep sending the jobs overseas and allowing the illegals to do the ones remaining, it's your country too just flush it away. I see the good the Unions accomplished, improving working conditions and raising the standard of living among their members thereby allowing them to improve their lives, the lives of their children and to be better consumers. The companies don't have to share wealth or anything else. let them find the cheapest labor and most unencumbered environments in which to pollute and put their workers at risk. You will have to live with the result of those economics. Open your small mind and think beyond the rights and profit of the companies and see the betterment of the American workers and economy by keeping jobs here, paying workers more than their third world counterparts. I've got my pension and full medical and dental benefits, now I can sit back and laugh as the lots remain full of cars, the store full of electronics, and our economy being flushed away as people like you defend big business and big oil. Maybe you and I won't live to see America mirror mexico or india but our children most certainly will if we don't see real jobs with real benefits return to our economy. Eventually those third world countries will become polluted from industrial waste resulting from greed and ignorance. Those workers will die from cancers and other job related illnesses because there is no one there to champion them. There are no free rides, not for Union workers and not for businesses or corporations. As for palin,obama and their families I suggest we focus on the greater plight of the American families who are not in line for the white house and how they will afford to feed their families and heat their homes.

[Masterplumb]

I think either parent can raise their children, and no I do not feel only women can raise children.
It has been said that her husband is a commercial fisherman, and is away for lengths of time.

And when his wife is the next vp do you think he will be working on a commercial boat fishing? Like I stated way back, they stated he will be home.

[Service Guy]

Biden challenges Palin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080907/pl_politico/13218;_ylt=ApSWZUOnS2vZXK4VwigaTmrCw5R4
He just sounds so much smarter, I suspect he is going to crush her in a debate.
Of course they are only VP candidates, I am still looking forward to the main event: Obama vs. McCain debates will be epic.:thumbup2: They are both strong candidates imo. This election is almost like a sporting event this year.:lol:

[Masterplumb]

As a Union man it does not piss me off, I take your words as small minded ignorance. Keep sending the jobs overseas and allowing the illegals to do the ones remaining, it's your country too just flush it away. I see the good the Unions accomplished, improving working conditions and raising the standard of living among their members thereby allowing them to improve their lives, the lives of their children and to be better consumers. The companies don't have to share wealth or anything else. let them find the cheapest labor and most unencumbered environments in which to pollute and put their workers at risk. You will have to live with the result of those economics. Open your small mind and think beyond the rights and profit of the companies and see the betterment of the American workers and economy by keeping jobs here, paying workers more than their third world counterparts. I've got my pension and full medical and dental benefits, now I can sit back and laugh as the lots remain full of cars, the store full of electronics, and our economy being flushed away as people like you defend big business and big oil. Maybe you and I won't live to see America mirror mexico or india but our children most certainly will if we don't see real jobs with real benefits return to our economy. Eventually those third world countries will become polluted from industrial waste resulting from greed and ignorance. Those workers will die from cancers and other job related illnesses because there is no one there to champion them. There are no free rides, not for Union workers and not for businesses or corporations. As for palin,obama and their families I suggest we focus on the greater plight of the American families who are not in line for the white house and how they will afford to feed their families and heat their homes.

First off I never said I thought those things. Even if I did, you call small minded because I don't agree with you? Who is the one being smalll minded? I am not defending anyone oh ignorant one, Im just telling you big business has a right to make as much profit as humanly possible in a capitalist society, its the way it works. If you think new cars & certain electronics are too expensive...well dont buy one, someone else will and when people dont you will see prices come down. It's called supply and demand. People need to stop waiting for the government to fix things that are not made for them to fix and to stop relying on the government to take care of them from the cradle to the grave. you want something, work for it. If I were king, the first thing to go would be social security.

[Masterplumb]

Biden challenges Palin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080907/pl_politico/13218;_ylt=ApSWZUOnS2vZXK4VwigaTmrCw5R4
He just sounds so much smarter, I suspect he is going to crush her in a debate.
Of course they are only VP candidates, I am still looking forward to the main event: Obama vs. McCain debates will be epic.:thumbup2: They are both strong candidates imo. This election is almost like a sporting event this year.:lol:

careful for what you wish for Carl. I think you have it backwards with the VP debates.

[Service Guy]

It's called supply and demand. People need to stop waiting for the government to fix things that are not made for them to fix and to stop relying on the government to take care of them from the cradle to the grave. you want something, work for it.

:bravo:

[Service Guy]

careful for what you wish for Carl. I think you have it backwards with the VP debates.

I think Biden is a sharp cookie, and he is currently preparing himself to put Palin on the defensive. Then again, Palin has the looks and charm and people fawning over her for that alone. I don't know, but we'll see soon how they interact.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! :D

[Frankiarmz]

Good morning Mr. Negative. This is going to probably piss some people off here but.....Maybe it's the unions fault that jobs are sent over seas. Companies are not here for charity they are here to make a profit. Maybe they feel they can get better cheaper labor in other countries. This generation of workers i.e. todays people entering the workforce are lazy and want the most money for the littlest work.

I stand by my post. Unions fought for worker's rights and raised the standard of living. Your post was small minded and ignorant in my opinion. You have the right to disagree, so go right ahead. I think the companies who shipped jobs to third world countries were unpatriotic and contributed to the mess we are in now. I hope you defend the illegals ready to take your job as well, I guess you think their incapable? Right! Keep insulting the American worker for fighting for more income and benefits, you just prove my theory that you want to live in a third world environment. If that's not true then step up and see where greed of the big business and big oil, not a better life for workers has gotten us. America with Union, the EPA and OSHA evolved to make a better way of life for workers and clean up the environment. To defend worker abuse, pollution and the weakening of the Ameican consumer does not give me the impression that you are a smart man. I could be wrong so I'll give you the last word, don't want to argue with someone I don't respect and from your comments I do not respect you.

[Service Guy]

You both make good points Frankie and Masterplumb. I think you are both 'right' depending on the viewpoint. We need free enterprise, but we also need to protect the american worker from abuse at the same time. Checks and balances.:)

[Frankiarmz]

You both make good points Frankie and Masterplumb. I think you are both 'right' depending on the viewpoint. We need free enterprise, but we also need to protect the american worker from abuse at the same time. Checks and balances.:)

Come on, choose one! Would you rather live in a society where working people can send their children to college and support your business, or do you want to live in a society that mirrors the slums of mexico and india? You can't have it both ways. Right now we are headed for the slums!

[cpw]

I am not sure she does know what the vp job entails, she said so herself.

The only think the VP job actually entails is being president of the senate; and they never bother to show up for that job. Aside from that, the job is whatever the VP and the president want to make it.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Tom Brokaw laid into Biden pretty heavy this morning on meet the press.

What happened to Joe Biden's eyeballs? When he smiles his eyes disappear....?

Joe Biden is a loose cannon when he speaks at times and if he's pushed by the anger button, he gets himself in trouble.



Between Biden and Obama, they have both acknowledged that the troop surged worked "overwhelmingly successfully" in Iraq. Not exactly what I'd want if you know how small excerpts of dialogue straight from their mouths can and will come back to haunt them.


Obama and Biden flat out refuse to do open discussion, town meetings like McCain/Palin are insisting on. Their refusal is a horrible strike against them because they are seemingly afraid to be not scripted in their agenda?

Palin is a tough cookie. Biden is going to be tested and he knows the world is watching. If he gets mad, it's over with, Palin will succeed with her aggressiveness.



What's awesome is this 4198 and 4199ing that they haven't even pulled out the real damaging info on either side, yet.


I found this on McCain. Not real but pretty funny if they could get away with it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwTKM_u-7j4&feature=related



:grinning-moose::grinning-moose::grinning-moose:

[Masterplumb]

I stand by my post. Unions fought for worker's rights and raised the standard of living. Your post was small minded and ignorant in my opinion. You have the right to disagree, so go right ahead. I think the companies who shipped jobs to third world countries were unpatriotic and contributed to the mess we are in now. I hope you defend the illegals ready to take your job as well, I guess you think their incapable? Right! Keep insulting the American worker for fighting for more income and benefits, you just prove my theory that you want to live in a third world environment. If that's not true then step up and see where greed of the big business and big oil, not a better life for workers has gotten us. America with Union, the EPA and OSHA evolved to make a better way of life for workers and clean up the environment. To defend worker abuse, pollution and the weakening of the Ameican consumer does not give me the impression that you are a smart man. I could be wrong so I'll give you the last word, don't want to argue with someone I don't respect and from your comments I do not respect you.

I am very confident in my abilities as a plumber and I do not have to worry about illegals coming to take my job. If someone who is here illegally and barely speaks the language can "take my job away" then I am probably a piss poor plumber to begin with and deserve to have my job taken from me. If I am a productive plumber and am an assett to my employer then I dont have anything to worry about do I?

That is also the problem with some of the union guys that I hear about. Some do the bare minimum and some go beyond what is required, and guess what,they make the same money.

Let me try to explain in a way that simple minded people like myself can understand. I was never in the UA, from the time I picked up my first shovel to dig a ditch for the "plumber" on the job, I exceled at every job thrown my way, I kept working hard and I started taking on more responsibility for my employer. I use to watch, listen and learn all I could and finally became a "mechanic". I made more money then most other mechanic's on the job, had medical benefits and a retirement plan just like others. So you see, if you work hard and do the right thing you dont need unions. If you are an asset and not dead wood to your employer(s) they will do right by you. I never needed some "associate" from the local to do the right thing by me, I did it myself.

As far as your comments about me wanting America to be a 3rd world country, I think you are crazy, it aint ever happening here, I dont care how much you B1tch and moan about oil, gas and whatever else. I appreciate that you think I am dumb. I think you are awesome for being able to decipher that out of a few comments that I post on the ridgid forum. Furthermore, if all you can do is complain about money maybe you didn't do a good job planning for retirement? I dont know maybe you should have put more away and made smarter investments? Hows that for being smart?I think you need to lay off the hard stuff. I dont give a rats @ss if you respect me or not. :wave3:

[Frankiarmz]

So you see, if you work hard and do the right thing you dont need unions. If you are an asset and not dead wood to your employer(s) they will do right by you. I never needed some "associate" from the local to do the right thing by me, I did it myself.

I've known of entire plumbing shops that just up and closed without warning. You are not the only amazing plumber out there and plenty have gotten the shaft. Some employers dump great workers once they accumulate too many benefits such as vacation weeks or sick days. Great workers are also at risk of being replaced by competent cheap labor, no one is truly safe in my opinion. I knew you had a problem with Unions, you are a self made man, a man among men, the best of the best, God like! Well, the rest of us are mortal and Unions help plenty to stand up for those not as blessed. That's my story and I'll stick to it until the day I die. Regarding my plans for retirement, wheter I retired or kept working there was no anticipating and planning for the greed of big oil and the damage they have done along with the scum who have invested in oil futures and made the situation worse for the rest of us. No I did not plan on paying double for gasoline, heating fuel and food, guess that makes me stupid, lazy... You're not much on history and education or else you would understand the need for the rise of Unions and the abuse they put an end to, there were great workers back then and they needed Unions. We still need Unions the same way we still need the military. The powerful will always seek to abuse those weaker without someone with a bigger stick standing by. Did you ever consider that fate played a small part in your success? Probably not, you are just that full of yourself.

[Masterplumb]

So you see, if you work hard and do the right thing you dont need unions. If you are an asset and not dead wood to your employer(s) they will do right by you. I never needed some "associate" from the local to do the right thing by me, I did it myself.

I've known of entire plumbing shops that just up and closed without warning. You are not the only amazing plumber out there and plenty have gotten the shaft. Some employers dump great workers once they accumulate too many benefits such as vacation weeks or sick days. Great workers are also at risk of being replaced by competent cheap labor, no one is truly safe in my opinion. I knew you had a problem with Unions, you are a self made man, a man among men, the best of the best, God like! Well, the rest of us are mortal and Unions help plenty to stand up for those not as blessed. That's my story and I'll stick to it until the day I die. Regarding my plans for retirement, wheter I retired or kept working there was no anticipating and planning for the greed of big oil and the damage they have done along with the scum who have invested in oil futures and made the situation worse for the rest of us. No I did not plan on paying double for gasoline, heating fuel and food, guess that makes me stupid, lazy... You're not much on history and education or else you would understand the need for the rise of Unions and the abuse they put an end to, there were great workers back then and they needed Unions. We still need Unions the same way we still need the military. The powerful will always seek to abuse those weaker without someone with a bigger stick standing by. Did you ever consider that fate played a small part in your success? Probably not, you are just that full of yourself.

So much for letting me have the last word! Anyhow we'll go through this again.

Never said I was gods gift to plumbing. I know there are better and worse then me. But it is kinda funny how none of the supposed things you talk about ever happened to me, but I have seen guys that didn't perform get fired.

Of course I am not much on history and education, dont you remember I am simple minded?

You want to know what has played a part in my "success" as you call it? Its called hard work buddy.

Im not full of myself pal, I'm just reaping the rewards of hard work and dedication. I don't blame "big oil" for this and that. I take responsibility for myself and don't expect government to bail me out.

And by the way, you are always the one to criticize the government and call them all liars, and each of the candidates being the same old politicians. So I ask if you had the insight to see these bad people for what they are why did you rely on them? Seems to me you are the simple minded one. The lord helps those that help themselves.

[ToUtahNow]

What do McCain, Biden and Obama all have in common? They are all part of the worst performing Congress in history with the lowest approval rate in history. Perhaps Palin can make a real change.

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

I've worked for millionaires to almost homeless and everything in between. The happiest and most successful of the bunch were ones that felt they were responsible for themselves and used their mind and body to overcome any obstacles that came their way.

J.C.

[ToUtahNow]

I've worked for millionaires to almost homeless and everything in between. The happiest and most successful of the bunch were ones that felt they were responsible for themselves and used their mind and body to overcome any obstacles that came their way.

J.C.

This is so true. Up at my place in Utah I use to sit with a neighbor who had black lung disease from working in the mines. He was an interesting old guy because of the history he had. I asked him one day how he could possibly live on only $8,000 per year (this was in 2003) and he simply said what else do I need? He was a simple guy but it was the little things in life that made him smile. He has passed away now but he has left a memory of who he was.

Mark

[Frankiarmz]

What do McCain, Biden and Obama all have in common? They are all part of the worst performing Congress in history with the lowest approval rate in history. Perhaps Palin can make a real change.

Mark

Mark, I think she is smart and strong but will have a difficult time if the media doesn't play fair. I do think considering the field she is the most experienced with the least involvement with washington politics. I don't think her prolife stance helps her with most women but time will tell.

[cpw]

Mark, I think she is smart and strong but will have a difficult time if the media doesn't play fair. I do think considering the field she is the most experienced with the least involvement with washington politics. I don't think her prolife stance helps her with most women but time will tell.

She is actually willing to live it; which I think bodes well for her. If that is the deciding issue that people have, the republican ticket was likely not for them anyway.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-07-poll_N.htm

[toolaholic]

The only think the VP job actually entails is being president of the senate; and they never bother to show up for that job. Aside from that, the job is whatever the VP and the president want to make it.

Really? I remember the grassy knoll in Texas !

[cpw]

Really? I remember the grassy knoll in Texas !

But at that point, the job isn't VP anymore.

[Rafael]

As pres. of the senate the VP breaks ties. Occasionally it matters.

[levon]

Palin was against the bridge to nowhere before she was against it! sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooofunnyyy !!!!!!!!!!!! the republicans are just as full of it as democrats, this is the so funny! but i want to see the republicans that are so sour, post!

[Dairylander]

Yep, she told Congress "thanks, but no thanks on that "Bridge to Nowhere," but didn't bother to return the $223 million in taxpayers’ money that she got for the project.

[levon]

pardon me, palin was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. but if you are on the opposite side,facts dont matter. we can throw up ignorant statistics to support our view. why dont we say vote for who you want no matter what the party,but i forgot. the people who try to bully their opinion on everyone, will cry. they just dont undersatand the opinion of the majority of the country

[ToUtahNow]

Actually the funny part is how scared the Democrats are of a little girl from Alaska. It seems Obama should be selling himself and not worry about Palin. I heard today Obama is backing off of repealing the tax cuts until he sees how the economy is doing. Does that mean he is now conceding repealing the tax cuts will hurt the economy?

Mark

[Service Guy]

I heard today Obama is backing off of repealing the tax cuts until he sees how the economy is doing. Does that mean he is now conceding repealing the tax cuts will hurt the economy?

Mark

I thought the exact same thing when I heard that...Obama is looking desperate lately.

[levon]

seems shes loved by males of the conservative genre, but women seem to detest her. women seem to seee her as what she is. she does seem to be shallow on issues, but should i vote for her because shes conservative????? sounds lie Dubya! this is hilarious!

[Dairylander]

All the speculation should end at the V.P. debate. If her skills in a live format are as good as her convention speech, the Dems will have to shut up. But if not, she'll look like a puppet.

[ToUtahNow]

I thought the exact same thing when I heard that...Obama is looking desperate lately.

I may be mistaken but I thought I also heard he now says the withdrawal in Iraq will be based on conditions on the ground. I'm wondering as he matures politically if he is not realizing some of his promise were not realistic. The thing is you know he's a smart guy and I believe he has 3,000 advisers so I imagine is brain is on steroids right now.

Mark

[ToUtahNow]

seems shes loved by males of the conservative genre, but women seem to detest her. women seem to seee her as what she is. she does seem to be shallow on issues, but should i vote for her because shes conservative????? sounds lie Dubya! this is hilarious!

I'm sure that is what you would like to think but that is not what the Polls are showing. Not only is she popular with male Conservatives she is popular with both genders in both parties. Whether they will vote for McCain because of it is another story but consider both Obama and Biden are going after Palin now and ignoring McCain. Who would have ever thought we could have an election with the worst from both party and the RNC's VP choice is stealing the show.

Mark

[levon]

My main problem with the field of politicians is that of Obama, Biden, McCain and Palin, none seem to be knowledgeable or even aware of the peoples opinion! They all have to impose a certain set of values on us. they dont have any solutions to problems that face us. It scares me that the dems want to get my vote by saying things will change. then the republicans say , we want change, when they kiss dubyas behind, and McCain has sided with Dubya 90 per cent of the time. I hear republicans say , im not happy with Bush, but....... If youre not happy with Bush, why dont we give someone else a chance? Maybe anyone of the ones running would be an improvement?

[levon]

she definitely isnt popular with democratic women. we know that! wish as you want , democratic women dont want Palin, if in your dreams you do.

[ToUtahNow]

she definitely isnt popular with democratic women. we know that! wish as you want , democratic women dont want Palin, if in your dreams you do.

That's great news, now none of you guys have anything to worry about and Obama can quit playing defense and start to get back on message.

Here is a pretty good Poll you make your own call.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_power_fresh_face_now_more_popular_than_obama _mccain

Palin is energizing people to vote and McCain does not need any of the Democrats women to win over the "no party" affiliation voters. This election was already headed to a single digit win before Palin so lets see where it goes from here.

Mark

[levon]

i tried to read this but its evidently a gop release. repub popups keep popping up to try and brainwash me.

[levon]

should we vote for her cause shes hot? thats the talk ive heard here. im no judge, but leave looks out of this. I dont think shes hot, but i have a nice looking wife.

[ToUtahNow]

i tried to read this but its evidently a gop release. repub popups keep popping up to try and brainwash me.

That's too funny. I imagine it was easy to read in the old days when they had Obama ahead by 10-points.

Mark

[levon]

To Utah Now

try it out it keeps poppin up some republican jibberish. But i think you mean well, so i want hold it against you. and i do mean this with respect, not trying to be condescending at all. You are a person of principals, whatever anyone thinks.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Barack Hussein Obama brought himself down to the level of Vice President by his own doings by just being alerted to the fact of her presence.



He's painting himself into a corner being concerned of such a strong woman.


Why does he care? He shouldn't, Biden should when they go face to face and Biden has a bad temper. He'll spout off and that will cost him.


Obama and Biden literally pulled themselves off target by being stung by Palin's presence.

Palin is doing her own thing.


I can see why Biden and Obama don't want to do town meetings; those random questions will stump them and put them in bad media coverage.


This scripted **** is for the birds and is fake. McCain/Palin looks good when they want this format and the other side is squawking stating that 3 debates...is enough.


The people would love town meetings........let's them feel important, the supposed importance that they are for the election. :smilewinkgrin:

[levon]

i apologize, i see by the latest poll McCain has come up to 46 percent to Obamas 47 percent. i was not aware of this. looks like Obama should give up!

[JCsPlumbing]

Levon, what are the problems that face you that you feel the potential candidates should address?

Thanks.

J.C.

[levon]

1. the economy
2. real change, McCain has been there 26 years. its hilarious to thin a 70 year old wants change, unless its his depends that needs changing. Obama says he will bring chage, but he just wants to be president!
3.and this sounds corny-- id like to see a government that a slight majority of AMERICANS trust and feel is trying wrong or right to help the people of the United States.
4. a country where people can see where their own political leanings can
be wrong. independant, republican or democrats
5. we will elect a new president soon. No matter who wins, its got to be an improvement over the lies, sour economy, and the total admissions that they dont know what to do. I may be wright or wrong, i give opinions, like everyone on here. we all know opimions are like --------, we all have them.

[JCsPlumbing]

I don't quite understand? :confused: What is going on specifically in your world that you feel the candidates should address.

Thanks.

J.C.

[Frankiarmz]

Levon, what are the problems that face you that you feel the potential candidates should address?

Thanks.

J.C.

While we wait for Levon, I'll give my answer. Let's start with campaign promises that will not be kept, both sides guilty? I have a problem with our borders not being secured, our immigration laws being broken and twenty million illegals living here. I have a problem paying $4.00 a gallon for gasoline and heating fuel, $11 for a gallon of corn oil! I have a problem with the trade deficit and loss of millions of jobs because I think it's a bad thing for our economy. I have a problem with our government spending almost a trillion dollars in iraq and not getting anything in return. I have a problem with lobbyists influencing our legislators like they did for the two CEO's running fannie mae and freddie mac, get them the hell out of washington. These candidates are not potential, they are all we have to choose from and the record of both parties shows a lack of concern for the American public.

[Masterplumb]

They dont have anything negative on her except they think she flip-flopped on the bridge to nowhere. You guys are going to have to do better then that. Keep digging.

Anyway here is the latest poll from usa today (liberal paper) :D
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-07-poll_N.htm

[levon]

read previous post? should i jump into bed with Obama or McCain for what they address? One of the problems is that the vp picks on both sides make more sense than the candidates for president. That is a sad commentary on politics. I voted for Nixon, and voted for George W. the first time. im not a partisan. I think the partisans cant or wont look into anyone for the good of the country, but to keep the status quo. Like i said, this is my opinion, i wont try and convince anyone that im right. Saying anyone that disagrees with me is wrong is being way too smugg!
and so goes anyone with opposing ideas.

[JCsPlumbing]

While we wait for Levon, I'll give my answer. Let's start with campaign promises that will not be kept, both sides guilty? I have a problem with our borders not being secured, our immigration laws being broken and twenty million illegals living here. I have a problem paying $4.00 a gallon for gasoline and heating fuel, $11 for a gallon of corn oil! I have a problem with the trade deficit and loss of millions of jobs because I think it's a bad thing for our economy. I have a problem with our government spending almost a trillion dollars in iraq and not getting anything in return. I have a problem with lobbyists influencing our legislators like they did for the two CEO's running fannie mae and freddie mac, get them the hell out of washington. These candidates are not potential, they are all we have to choose from and the record of both parties shows a lack of concern for the American public.

Good post. But I have to "beat home" the question. How's it affecting you? Is your life really bad right now because of the current gov't? Can't afford decent housing because of the current gov't? No job because of the current gov't? Don't own a car because of the current gov't?

If you answer yes to these, how is it the current gov'ts fault and what does the "new" gov't need to do to fix it for you?

Wondering. :rolleyes:

J.C.

[Masterplumb]

:bash:

:sad::sad::sad:


:help:

:crying:

:boring2::boring2:

:ThumbsDown::ThumbsDown:

[levon]

JC

i havent lost my home or job, and im making out ok. i do know that before the current administration took over things were a lot better as far as the economy. agreed Clinton was a womanizer, but he did get the econmy moving. his personal life left something to be desired. But maybe if Bush had had a girlfriend on the side, he could have relaxed more and paid more attention to running the government.

[levon]

to any and all, please excuse my slow typing, i have a neuromuscular impairment that makes typing slow and trying. i apologize for this and thank you for putting up with me, whatever your political opinion.

[Masterplumb]

JC

i havent lost my home or job, and im making out ok. i do know that before the current administration took over things were a lot better as far as the economy. agreed Clinton was a womanizer, but he did get the econmy moving. his personal life left something to be desired. But maybe if Bush had had a girlfriend on the side, he could have relaxed more and paid more attention to running the government.

Clinton benefited from the previous 12 years of a republican administration, especially Reagan who turned around a disaster. Long live Reaganomics

[JCsPlumbing]

JC

i havent lost my home or job, and im making out ok. i do know that before the current administration took over things were a lot better as far as the economy. agreed Clinton was a womanizer, but he did get the econmy moving. his personal life left something to be desired. But maybe if Bush had had a girlfriend on the side, he could have relaxed more and paid more attention to running the government.

1) What did Clinton do to get the economy moving?

2) What did the current administration do to stall the economy?

J.C.

[Masterplumb]

to any and all, please excuse my slow typing, i have a neuromuscular impairment that makes typing slow and trying. i apologize for this and thank you for putting up with me, whatever your political opinion.

Not a problem

[Masterplumb]

1) What did Clinton do to get the economy moving?

Clinton Had Reagan/Bush and the Gulf war

2) What did the current administration do to stall the economy?

9/11

J.C.

.

[Frankiarmz]

Good post. But I have to "beat home" the question. How's it affecting you? Is your life really bad right now because of the current gov't? Can't afford decent housing because of the current gov't? No job because of the current gov't? Don't own a car because of the current gov't?

If you answer yes to these, how is it the current gov'ts fault and what does the "new" gov't need to do to fix it for you?

Wondering. :rolleyes:

J.C.

I look to my government (legislators) to step in and do things to ensure my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. The current government (see above) has sat back and done nothing to secure our borders and deal with illegals. This issue costs me in the way of higher health care for illegals who burden the system but do not support it! I am paying higher taxes to make up for all the federal,state and local services these people use but do not pay for! I am paying full tuition for my college age daughter while the children of illegals are skating. These things need fixing, are we clear? Crude oil is refined into essential commodities, necessary to the pursiut of my happiness, using my car to get my wife to her chemo treatments, work and other fun stuff, heating oil to keep my home from freezing during the winter. I am having trouble paying the double digit increases in these essential commodities and I expect my government(legislators) to step in like they did to pass the patriot act and homeland security. They could have passed legislation to limit profit to big oil, halt trading on oil futures, or opened the federal oil reserve. Yes, my way of life has been altered and if you think yours has not you are living in a fog. You are paying for the refusal of our government to address these issues and others. Those lobbyists who were paid over 200 million by the two CEO's for fannie mae and freddie mac bought our legislators, that is why they are not in jail or facing charges while our government bails them out. We, you and I are paying for that bailout! We are paying for the people who gave those loans and the people who accepted them knowing they could not afford them. These things affect you and I in a very real way. You may think you are safe in your home eating a meal and watching tv, but if the foundation is decaying you are in jeopardy. Any of this get through or are you still unsure of what I want from my govenment(legislators) democrat and republican.

[JCsPlumbing]

I look to my government (legislators) to step in and do things to ensure my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. The current government (see above) has sat back and done nothing to secure our borders and deal with illegals. This issue costs me in the way of higher health care for illegals who burden the system but do not support it! I am paying higher taxes to make up for all the federal,state and local services these people use but do not pay for! I am paying full tuition for my college age daughter while the children of illegals are skating. These things need fixing, are we clear? Crude oil is refined into essential commodities, necessary to the pursiut of my happiness, using my car to get my wife to her chemo treatments, work and other fun stuff, heating oil to keep my home from freezing during the winter. I am having trouble paying the double digit increases in these essential commodities and I expect my government(legislators) to step in like they did to pass the patriot act and homeland security. They could have passed legislation to limit profit to big oil, halt trading on oil futures, or opened the federal oil reserve. Yes, my way of life has been altered and if you think yours has not you are living in a fog. You are paying for the refusal of our government to address these issues and others. Those lobbyists who were paid over 200 million by the two CEO's for fannie mae and freddie mac bought our legislators, that is why they are not in jail or facing charges while our government bails them out. We, you and I are paying for that bailout! We are paying for the people who gave those loans and the people who accepted them knowing they could not afford them. These things affect you and I in a very real way. You may think you are safe in your home eating a meal and watching tv, but if the foundation is decaying you are in jeopardy. Any of this get through or are you still unsure of what I want from my govenment(legislators) democrat and republican.

Look cowboy, you've got zero reason to get pissed at me. I find the majority of people uninformed & like to *****, moan, and blame the gov't for their problems without ever giving direct examples of such.

Your problems:

1) Illegals and any negative effects it has on your income.
2) Fuel prices.
3) Lobbyists and bailouts.

That was pretty much it in 3 lines. You don't even know if I agree with you though. :confused: Is this getting through to YOU.

J.C.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Hey what night is monday night football on?

[DuckButter]

I saw a comment on the only thing McCain will change is his depends.

This sentient argument somehow hasn't swayed me.

How many things has McCain really changed in the past, on the record?

How many things has Obama changed?

Thats my point...one talks about change, the other has a record of change with the BEST interest of the people in mind.

[Frankiarmz]

Look cowboy, you've got zero reason to get pissed at me. I find the majority of people uninformed & like to *****, moan, and blame the gov't for their problems without ever giving direct examples of such.

Your problems:

1) Illegals and any negative effects it has on your income.
2) Fuel prices.
3) Lobbyists and bailouts.

That was pretty much it in 3 lines. You don't even know if I agree with you though. :confused: Is this getting through to YOU.

J.C.

I'm not pissed at you J.C.. I'm upset with those things I mentioned and some personal stuff that has nothing to do with anyone here. I enjoy the opportunity to exchange wheter or not you agree with me. Those things I mentioned are serious to me and there are more, just seems like a lot of things got away from us. We should never have lost those millions of jobs, the so called free market, free trade and global economy are terms used by others to justify our economy getting screwed. Most other countries have all sorts of safeguards in place to prevent such things happening, that is why our goods don't get the same fair chance at their markets. Try selling American grown rice in europe, japan or china, you would have more tacked on in tarrifs than the cost of the product. I see a lot of wrong doing and I don't blame the current administration alone, this took many years of neglect by the folks in charge. You think twenty million illegals showed up during Bush? I don't, they've been coming here for many years. I am most concerned for our economy, seriously. I don't believe in this cycle thing the experts talk about because we have never had such a loss of jobs, outsourcing of jobs and jobs done by illegals. What part of the equation can change to stimulate our economy? Certainly not housing, we are paying for the housing all these folks could not afford right now. How about consumer credit debt? How long before that monster wants to be paid in full? We are a smoke and mirrors society and economy. The hard working tradepeople here who are self employed probably accept payment by credit card as do most businesses, will it/can it reach a point at which it all collapses due to lack of funds? How many more Americans will get in over their heads and declare bankruptcy? I know this does not directly affect me right now but if things don't turn around it will personally affect all of us somehow, someday.

[Ace Sewer]

I'm with stxrus; she scares me, as do all who believe in a god as a justification for their action or inaction. It takes all personal responsibility out of the equation.

Religious extremists all share one belief; that other people ought to live in a particular manner. This is diametrically opposed to what I feel is the most basic American ideal; personal freedom.

With freedom comes responsibility; when you can do what you want, YOU are responsible for the consequences. When it's right or wrong because the Koran, the Bible, or whatever says so, whatever happens is God's will.

I can understand the attraction, and I envy the deeply religious I know their calm, their certainty, their lack of the agony of how to live I find myself in daily, but I can't go there. I was created, by God or by biological accident, the way I am.

[Dairylander]

The topic of illegal immigrants keeps coming up and I have to say that it is ridiculous to blame Bush or Clinton or anyone but ourselves for that situation.
The increasing number of illegals is due to one reason: regular Americans like you and I are knowingly hiring and paying illegals to work.
Every single illegal immigrant has an American boss that absolutely knows that his workers don't have papers and doesn't care.
Mexicans know two things:
-It's impossible for us to guard 2,000 miles of border.
-There are Americans that will pay them better wages than they earn in Mexico.
It's really that simple.
So you can hate on the brown people that are stealing your money and opportunity, but you should really be blaming your cousins and brothers for looking the other way on the paperwork.
The only thing the government could do is increase penalties for having undocumented workers. But this will never happen, since the companies that rely on cheap immigrant labor are a million times more powerful than the angry Americans that think their health care money is being stolen.

[Masterplumb]

I'm with stxrus; she scares me, as do all who believe in a god as a justification for their action or inaction. It takes all personal responsibility out of the equation.

Religious extremists all share one belief; that other people ought to live in a particular manner. This is diametrically opposed to what I feel is the most basic American ideal; personal freedom.

With freedom comes responsibility; when you can do what you want, YOU are responsible for the consequences. When it's right or wrong because the Koran, the Bible, or whatever says so, whatever happens is God's will.

I can understand the attraction, and I envy the deeply religious I know their calm, their certainty, their lack of the agony of how to live I find myself in daily, but I can't go there. I was created, by God or by biological accident, the way I am.

I agree with this for the most part, but I must be missing something here, where is it shown that she is a religious extremist? Because one has faith in a supreme being doesn't necessarily mean they are extreme does it?

[Dairylander]

Palin's whole thing about the Iraq war being a "task from God" is pretty far out, but I agree with Masterplumb; the other things I've heard about her are pretty moderate Christian conservative stuff.
But Ace, she should scare you. Compared to George W., she's much more active in the church and while they both use faith to get votes, she is more likely to push a Christian agenda while in office.

[ToUtahNow]

I would be less concerned about Obama injecting his faith into his actions. I mean after all he sat in Rev. Wright's church for 20-years and never heard a thing he said.

Mark

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Do you all realize how important it is, for the left to win this year.


I'm talking for just themselves, not just to beat the right.


IF they don't win, you're going to see a defeat that goes straight to the core of that agenda that will ultimately tear it down from within.


3 unsuccessful attempts to win office and not win is more than just a loss. That's structural problems that must be dealt with.


IOW, the democrats have more on the line than what people realize.

They can't afford another loss, 3 times in a row.


Here's something I found interesting:


The streets of Iraq are safer than Barack's Hometown of Chicago. More lives are wasted/killed in Illinois than on the battle front.

Of course that's not important; he's got an election to win. :tongue:

[Dairylander]

The streets of Iraq are safer than Barack's Hometown of Chicago. More lives are wasted/killed in Illinois than on the battle front.
Before Obama, Illinois averaged around 900 murders per year.
During Obama, Illinois has averaged 780 murders per year.

In 2007, between 16,000 and 24,000 coalition forces and Iraqis were killed in the war.

Sources:
U.S. Department of Justice Statistics
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystatelist.cfm
ABC news/Associated Press
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/01/2007-in-review.html

[Frankiarmz]

Before Obama, Illinois averaged around 900 murders per year.
During Obama, Illinois has averaged 780 murders per year.

In 2007, between 16,000 and 24,000 coalition forces and Iraqis were killed in the war.

Sources:
U.S. Department of Justice Statistics
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystatelist.cfm
ABC news/Associated Press
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/01/2007-in-review.html

Good to see the true statistics but they are tragic none the less. Regarding democrats having a lot to lose, I think we all have a lot to lose. The country is in bad shape regardless of how well you think you personally are doing. One final comment, I agree regular Americans who employ illegals fuel the problem but it is our government refusing to deal with them that has allowed the problem to exist and grow. Oh, about the border. If washington wanted to they could easily secure 2000 or ten thousand miles of borders over any terrain with shoot to kill orders.

[Dairylander]

If washington wanted to they could easily secure 2000 or ten thousand miles of borders over any terrain with shoot to kill orders.
1892: "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
2008: "Shoot to Kill"

[Masterplumb]

1892: "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
2008: "Shoot to Kill"

Yes, I agree "shoot to kill" is very, very extreme.

We still want the poor, tired and the huddled masses longing to be free we just want them here legally.

[Service Guy]

Wow, this thread is going off the deep end. Frankiarmz sounds like he's about to lose it and turn into the next unabomber or something!:eek: So far its been pretty entertaining. :joyful: :deadhorse:

[Frankiarmz]

1892: "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
2008: "Shoot to Kill"

Do you understand the difference between legal and illegal immigration? Okay, you and the other bleeding hearts think shoot to kill is too extreme? Issue our troops rubber bullets! I bet the families of people killed by illegals would not find shoot to kill too extreme. I appreciate these folks are leaving HEll and trying to improve their lives, willing to work hard and for the most part are good people, but they are breaking our laws and burdening our economy and leading to Americans being unemployed. Get in line and enter legally. Those huddled masses came here to be part of this country not to earn money not support our government, burden the system, and then leave. Take the word illegal out of the conversation and I agree with "Give us your poor...." Leave that word illegal in and we have a failing economy and a lack of respect for our laws, the laws of the land.

[Frankiarmz]

Wow, this thread is going off the deep end. Frankiarmz sounds like he's about to lose it and turn into the next unabomber or something!:eek: So far its been pretty entertaining. :joyful: :deadhorse:

Don't lose your nerve now, it's just getting interesting. Let's see who believes in the laws of the land and who is willing to turn the other way to keep the cheap slave labor? I'm not about to lose it but I wonder if the same can be said for the Americans who are unemployed because some illegals were willing to work dirt cheap? Does this happen or is it my imagination? Oh, that's right, work hard and you keep your job, money has nothing to do with it.:bash:

[ToUtahNow]

Man you guys have gone way off-topic.

My thoughts are every illegal alien should be deported today. Then tomorrow we need to start a program where guest workers are allowed to come in under limited restrictions and only if they are sponsored by a business which will be legally responsible for not just their pay check but their social needs as well. Finally, on the day after tomorrow we need to repeal the portion of the Fourteenth Amendment making you a citizen for being born here.

Mark

[Service Guy]

Franki, I know neither McCain nor Obama are as hard on illegals as you would like. But honestly if this issue is your number one concern you are better off voting for McCain/Palin as they tend to have stricter views on immigration than Obama/Biden. Obama in particular is way too liberal with illegals to be a good match for you.

[Frankiarmz]

Franki, I know neither McCain nor Obama are as hard on illegals as you would like. But honestly if this issue is your number one concern you are better off voting for McCain/Palin as they tend to have stricter views on immigration than Obama/Biden. Obama in particular is way too liberal with illegals to be a good match for you.

Illegals are not my main concern, I wouldn't care if there were so many piled up on the streets that I had to climb over them. My main concerns right now are paying for greed of big oil, their record profits and the people who are investing in oil futures and adding to the skyrocketing costs. You see like many people on a fixed income, working or retired, I had not planned for these sudden double digit increases in gasoline, heating fuel, food and other essentials. I thought I was pretty clear on this the other night? I'm glad most of you guys are able to pay $4.00 for a gallon of gasoline, heating fuel and all those other items that have shot up in cost and not be concerned, not look to our legislators to step in and plug the many leaks bleeding out our great country. I seriously don't think either candidate will do good, will keep their campaign promises. Just look to the past as both parties ruled the congress and held the Presidency and look where we are now. I don't like it, McCain and Obama are two politicians, one with very little experience making all sorts of claims about change and the other part of the system for many years and now claiming to make change, why did he wait until now? I enjoy the exchanges here,it's a nice distraction from other problems but I have to search the Internet a little now and rethink this whole woodburning stove decision. The tree services used to give away the wood they removed rather than pay to dispose of it but now that's all changed. Supply and demand, no free rides? I'm paying full tuition for my daughter in college, too bad she is not an illegal!

[Service Guy]

The earth is slowly running out of oil, that is reality.

Its not expensive yet (relatively), the rest of the world pays much more for gasoline and heating oil than we do. Europeans have for example been paying a ridiculous amount for years. They have adapted by conserving energy in many differnt areas. Americans need to do the same.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Before Obama, Illinois averaged around 900 murders per year.
During Obama, Illinois has averaged 780 murders per year.

In 2007, between 16,000 and 24,000 coalition forces and Iraqis were killed in the war.

Sources:
U.S. Department of Justice Statistics
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystatelist.cfm
ABC news/Associated Press
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/01/2007-in-review.html



Here's what's wrong with those statistics:



I said Chicago, not the entire state of Illinois.

120 less murders isn't exactly a great improvement, and you left out my context of "wasted" lives.


Thirdly, moving from "US TROOPS" to "Coalition Forces" is now a stretch considering the left makes a solid point of giving head counts for the US troops that were killed.


So when you take my statement and stretch it into another category, and I come back and reclarify words I don't even have to repeat,


I stand by my statement solid. Apparently Chicago, not the entire state has a lot of problems that its former leader doesn't want to address, just wants to fix everywhere else.


This glides back to accountability of what you say and do rings true where you call home.


I would expect more, the United States would expect more of a candidate working on such a format that his hometown has less than desirable statistics showing improvements.

He needs to fix his hometown problems before he goes trying to get everyone to believe he can fix anyone elses.


Let's see Obama do a speech in Chicago, backdrop to urban housing developments with 93% predominantly black neighborhood.

Won't happen.


Streets of Iraq are safer; the people with the guns are soldiers with a purpose, not with the desire to rule the streets and buy drugs.


The democrats have to win this election to maintain any credibility to their statements of how bad everything is, every 4 years to finally bring sustenance to those very statements.

[Dairylander]

Numbers of homicides in Chicago per year

2000:628
2001:666
2002:647
2003:598
-Obama elected Senator in 2004
2004:448
2005:449
2006:452

Source:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Crime-in-Chicago

[Masterplumb]

Numbers of homicides in Chicago per year

2000:628
2001:666
2002:647
2003:598
-Obama elected Senator in 2004
2004:448
2005:449
2006:452

Source:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Crime-in-Chicago

You can't really believe that a Jr. Senator can actually have any effect on murders do you? Come on now.

[ToUtahNow]

Numbers of homicides in Chicago per year

2000:628
2001:666
2002:647
2003:598
-Obama elected Senator in 2004
2004:448
2005:449
2006:452

Source:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Crime-in-Chicago

I'm not sure you helped your argument. You're basically saying the murder rate was higher in Chicago while Obama was in the State Senate but once he left (went on to national level) things got better.

Mark

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

You can't really believe that a Jr. Senator can actually have any effect on murders do you? Come on now.



Yes...the messiah is coming :grin-square: (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19072&highlight=messiah+coming)

[Service Guy]

You guys (Republicans) are starting to get me. Even though I don't particularly like Palin at all, I am starting to like McCain more and more. While the liberals are getting on my nerves more and more lately, meanwhile the conservatives are making sense to me lately. Ahhh, the joys (and pains) of being a moderate swing-voter.
I suspect this is going to be an extremely close race, maybe their will be a recount like in 2000!:eek:

[DuckButter]

to any and all, please excuse my slow typing, i have a neuromuscular impairment that makes typing slow and trying. i apologize for this and thank you for putting up with me, whatever your political opinion.

Though I completely disagree with your political views, I had to comment.

My wife has MS, just diagnosed last year right before we married.

If this is what you have, my heart goes out to you.

[ToUtahNow]

You guys (Republicans) are starting to get me. Even though I don't particularly like Palin at all, I am starting to like McCain more and more. While the liberals are getting on my nerves more and more lately, meanwhile the conservatives are making sense to me lately. Ahhh, the joys (and pains) of being a moderate swing-voter.
I suspect this is going to be an extremely close race, maybe their will be a recount like in 2000!:eek:

You'd better hurry and decide before we close and lock the door.

Mark :)

[DuckButter]

You guys (Republicans) are starting to get me. Even though I don't particularly like Palin at all, I am starting to like McCain more and more. While the liberals are getting on my nerves more and more lately, meanwhile the conservatives are making sense to me lately. Ahhh, the joys (and pains) of being a moderate swing-voter.
I suspect this is going to be an extremely close race, maybe their will be a recount like in 2000!:eek:

This is what scares me.

Based on merits, experience and achievements alone, McCain should be the next president.

The novelty, and packaging of Obama has fascinated a large percentage of the country, he talks a great game, thats nice.

But McCain has has done in the past what he promises to do in the future, Obama has a record thats almost zilch...particularly when put side by side to McCain.

Has the average American really become conditioned to buying whats most colorfully packaged?

Do we really just buy what we're told as if it's the truth?

[Frankiarmz]

You guys (Republicans) are starting to get me. Even though I don't particularly like Palin at all, I am starting to like McCain more and more. While the liberals are getting on my nerves more and more lately, meanwhile the conservatives are making sense to me lately. Ahhh, the joys (and pains) of being a moderate swing-voter.
I suspect this is going to be an extremely close race, maybe their will be a recount like in 2000!:eek:

I think of myself as a moderate as well and I still don't know what to do. I have little to no faith in the congress and Obama. I think highly of McCain as a man, but as a politician I don't agree with his views, open markets when it is our market open and no others! McCain and palin's views on abortion, I think it's murder but unless they can stop unwanted pregnancies I'd rather see a fetus aborted than a baby beaten to death. No, I can't vote republican either they had their chance these last few years. Maybe I'll sit this one out? I sure hope I'm wrong, really wrong about both candidates. Sure would be great to see either Obama or McCain get in office and start turning this whole mess around. I applaud you guys for having such confidence in your candidates, you have no hard feelings for the past and how both parties messed things up, that's great.

[ToUtahNow]

Just consider the only thing stopping a runaway Congress is the President's veto. Not that everything they have done has been dumb but much of it has.

Mark

[ritajones]

True, everyone talks bad about Bush but the last four years he has had very little control over the countries policies.