Craftsman or Ryobi?

[buctooth]

As for bandsaws, I have narrowed my choices down to the Craftsman and Ryobi 9 inch offerings. I like the price of the Ryobi, and many people on this site think it is goos. But I like the Craftsman because it has an extendable table that gives it a ripping cappacity of 12 inches. If anyone has any good or bad comments on these two saws please tell me!! I have also looked at both the Craftsman and Ryobi 10-inch saws. The Craftsman is (of course) a little more expensive, but it has a head that tilts for the angled cuts instead of having the table tilt, which they claim in the catalogue helps the saw's performance because you don't have to worry about forgetting to tighten up the clamp for the table like on other saws. I like the Ryobi because it is less expensive, it comes with a dust bag, and it is supposed to have more space between the throat and the blade than the Craftsman. This will be the saw that will be used for just about everything right now in my shop. I am a little tight as far as money goes, so it is going to be quite a while before I have all the tools I need for woodworking. I am looking at bandsaws because I have seen that they are very versatile, and a versatile saw is what I need right now. What I need for versatility is a saw that will cut both metal and wood, and a saw that can cut reasonably fast as well as cut a fine finish cut. I also feel band saws are very safe. I am going to be using it for the same purpose as a table saw for the short term, as well as a saw for cutting out pieces for wooden toys such as cranes, tractor trailer trucks, and trains.I probably will also need a saw that can resaw stock reasonably well, although it will not be used for this purpose very often.

[ 12-11-2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: buctooth ]

[BadgerDave]

Buy the one you like not the one someone else likes.

[imported_CWSmith]

BucTooth,

I have the Ryobi BS902 and really like it. No problems at all and the addition of the fence and worklight is nice. This is my first bandsaw and it is a good learning tool. At $87, it's hard to beat.

But, (there's always a "but") the Craftsman is also nice and perhaps parts availability may be an advantage over the Ryobi if, and when, it comes down to that. Tech support for Craftsman, Ryobi, and Ridgid are all the same now (in case you didn't know). Sears usually has a good parts policy, but I don't know how that will continue now that it is part of K-mart. At this date, Ryobi parts for the new bandsaw are still hard to come by.

Bottom line though, as Dave mentioned, is buy the one that you like! With regard to the table extension that you mentioned... building or setting up an additional support device is not a big deal to do and realize that both the Craftsman and Ryobi tables are comparitively (to a 14-inch) lightweight and will need additional support areas for anything heavy. I suggest you compare the quality level, the blade guide assembly, motor size, tension release, and general operability and make your decision based on those comparisons.

Hope this helps,

CWS

[daveferg]

You really didn't say what you wanted to use it for. Most benchtop bandsaw are extremely limited in performance. Personally---I'd suggest a scroll saw----much more versitle and you can get a better performing scroll saw than the same dollars spent on a benchtop bandsaw.

[imported_Knot Me]

Buctooth - I've never used the Craftsman, but can vouch for the Ryobi BS900 which is a predecessor to the BS902. You can't really do a useful comparison of most of these benchtops to a good 14" saw b/c the 14" is in a different league, but within it's capacity limits I've pleasantly surprised by the performance of my BS900. The fact that it's < $100 helps justify it's existance, depending on your needs of course....if you can afford the bigger saw, there's no doubt that's the better choice.

The stock blade stunk, but the Ryobi did much better with a 3/8" 6TPI Vermont American blade. There is a bit of vibration, but that may be specific to my machine and not representative of all of them. I've had good results cutting curves in oak, cherry and even hard maple. I've resawn up to 3" hard maple....I couldn't believe either, but it did it and didn't hesitate much. I've done curves in 2" maple. Trying to cut curves in the same wood with my B&D jigsaw usually results in a cut that's skewed from 90 degrees.

There have been plenty of tasks that it can't handle....8" resawing, curves on a big board, etc. You can resaw up to 6-7" with most table saws, and a buddy with a bigger BS can be valuable sometimes.

[buctooth]

As many of you probably know because of my post "something interestin" I have just about ruled out the Ryobi and definately ruled out the Craftsman. But is Grizzly really worth the money for a very small shop?

[imported_MDEly1]

If the 9" bandsaws look like brothers it because they are. Ryobi makes the Craftsman, Craftsman said so themself. This makes the craftsman a better buy since it comes with three blades for only $10 more.

[imported_CWSmith]

MDEly,

While that was definitly true on the old Ryobi BS-900, I don't believe it followed through on later models. The Ryobi BS-901 and the present BS-902 are distinctly different from the current 9-inch Craftsman bandsaw. (At least that is true in my local store and in the 2004-2005 Craftsman catalog.) The main casting, covers, guides, table and even power switch are all different. Sears/Craftsman has had a tendency in the past few years to contract with a wider variety of manufacturers both here and abroad. However, perhaps your source of information is more accurate than mine.

Respectfully,

CWS

[imported_MDEly1]

I was looking at the BS902 at HD via the internet and the Craftsman 315.214770 and I noticed they looked very much alike so I emailed Sears cs to see if I could download their manual like I did Ryobi's and they did not have it available. I then emailed back and said it looked like the BS902 and asked who made the Craftsman. They emailed back that the BS902 is the Ryobi in Craftsman wrapper.

Mitch

[imported_Bob D.]

Craftsman tools that have the vendor prefix of 315 are made by Ryobi and Ryan

315 Ryan
315 RYOBI
315 Ryobi Motor Products
316 RYOBI
316 Ryobi America Corp
316 Ryobi (made in USA)

for the complete list go here;

http://www.owwm.com/Craftsman/Manufacturers-Prefix.asp

[imported_CWSmith]

Mitch,

Thanks for your update info... I guess I have to get to the Sears store a little more often. I haven't seen that particular model. Last month when I was there all they had was a Tradesman and a Craftsman model that looked a lot like the Delta. On page 139 of the 2004/5 Craftsman catalog they list only one 9-inch, which is different from anything else I've seen. But yes, if it's got the 315 prefix, it's a Ryobi.

I have the BS-902 and for a small bandsaw I really like it. I've seen some comments that were pretty negative, but from my own experience it has worked quite well. The only problem I've had is when I over-tightened the tension knob and started to push the rod up through the top of the plastic... oops! I called to buy a replacement but, as yet, parts aren't available.

Thanks again,

CWS

[imported_MDEly1]

CWS

While I have yet to buy a Ridgid tool to date, I know shame on me, I try hard to reseach what I do get. I have enjoyed and gained knowledge from this forum. So when possible I try to contribute.

I actually found the Sears saw on the their website and ordered it to my home. The store nearest me didn't have it.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Mitch

[axio]

Does this mean that NO craftsman power tools are made by them? They just rebadge the power tools from other manufacturers? I noticed this to be true on a Craftsman jig saw that was the same as a Skil sabre saw. And the Craftsman version of the Dremel was nearly identical. The only difference was on the label on the back, it was made it different places...

[Rafael]

axio,
That is correct, craftsman does not make their powertools.

[BadgerDave]

They also don't make any of their handtools either. Craftsman is nothing more than a Trademark licensed to Sears/K Mart.

[Mick]

I have a question to keep some of you experts going on this subject:

I have a garage shop.
For Christmas i got a DeWalt jigsaw - seems like a very very good one.
I think that the only thing that I am missing from my small one side of a two car garage shop is a planner, a jointer and a bandsaw.
my question is - should I buy a cheap 9 inch band saw or do I need a 14 inch? I plan on doing all kinds of wood working but mostly that means cutting curves in nothing more then 4 x 4's
I am not that interested in resawing anything larger then 1inch for banding plywood.
I know that I should get the best quality saw but is a 14inch bandsaw overkill? Should I get a band saw at all if I buy commercial banding and just
Use my nice new DeWalt jigsaw?

Thanks

Mick

[ChefHDAN]

Mick,
I too have a garage shop, I have the same jigsaw and I also have the BS1400. The jigsaw only sees duty if I can't easily & safely get the workpiece to the BS. If you've already got your TS then use the jig saw for your needs, and focus on the jointer & the planer. You'll find yourself wanting them before you'll be dissatisfied with your abillity to make the jigsaw work for your projects. I own the RIDGID models but was fortunate to be in the right place & time when the tool corral manager wanted to make a deal to get rid of some "Old Gray" stock. I've heard many good things about a cast iron benchtop planer being sold by sears, (think it's a delta), for around $250 and 100+# = solid!
There's no less expensive option for a thickness planer though so you'll want to asses your needs vs your funds. I like my RIDGID but wonder about the difference three knives & two speeds would make?? Dewalt & Delta reign in this arena.

Now if it was only a bit warmer in the shop & I could just get some damnned time to play with my tools!!!

Happy New Year!

[imported_CWSmith]

At one time, Sears issued specifications for its tools and used a variety of manufacturers to make tools to those specifications. Often, a manufacturer's existing product would meet spec and would be simply retooled with the proper colors and Craftsman nameplate. However, there were many occasions when a particular tool was exclusively manufactured by one of these companies to meet the specifications required by Sears. The same is true of just about everything bearing the Craftsman, Kenmore, and other Sear's namebrands. To my knowledge, Sears itself never owned any kind of manufacturing facility.

However, competition and the quest to maintain the "bottom line" has led Sears to evolve to a point where they now rely more on existing products from manufacturers. Often additional features or requirements are still part of the Craftsman goal, but being competitive is an overwhelming challenge and my personal thoughts are that Craftsman quality and reputation as suffered substantially in the last decade or so.

With regard to the question of buying a 9-inch bandsaw over a 14-inch, that largely depends on what you need to do. I have the little Ryobi BS902 and it is a great learning tool and works quite well for making trim, shop jigs, toys, and other small items. For $87, I have absolutely no complaints at all. However, I believe 4 x 4 stock was mentioned and that is the maximum capacity (cutting depth) of the "902" and I believe some other brands have less cutting depth. Either way, that is probably too large a cut for the small motor and a 14-inch would probably be a much better choice IMHO.

CWS

[Mick]

I don't know? I am not sure that I haven’t already sold myself on the idea of buying a bandsaw.
I have $200 worth of HD cards that I have to use anyway.
I am afraid that here in Texas, wood is not readily available so I end up with pine, Ash or red oak and they are always finished. So what is the purpose of a planer or jointer? When I glue boards together I usually use my router to joint the edges first. I can joint up to 2 inches on the router table. The Planer I can see using on small table tops (<12inches wide) put wouldn't a $60 electric hand planer do that same work on whatever size top I need?
Sorry about all these questions but it is Christmas time and there are lots of us that got gift cards from HD this year :)
BTW if you are in Texas and can prove me wrong about getting some nice wood like maple or white oak please fire away.
...ahh to be in Canada again where HD stocks maple. But then again I was working in a short sleeve shirt in my garage this weekend.

Oh yea if you are interested here are some picks of a few projects I have done in the last 2 months:
http://homepage.mac.com/mel.chambers/Micks_page/PhotoAlbum38.html

Please no laughing out loud - I am a beginner!

Mick

[axio]

I have the same questions too about the purpose of a planer and a jointer. Can't you joint things using a router?

BTW, I really like the stuff you made Mick. I'm gonna go try to make a couch table sometime soon :D

[Mick]

Axio,
thanks! before you make any sort of table, do yourself a favor and get the full pocket hole jig set from Lowes and lots of screws.
What a great way to cheat at woodworking!
oh, if you don't have an electric drill - which I didn't have, you need one that is fast. The low end ridged drill is a great tool.
- send pictures when you make something! It seems that we all talk about making stuff but I hardly ever see it - but when I do it is usually awesome. I would love to see more pictures of what people make for inspiration.

TTFN

Mc

[axio]

What's a pocket hole jig?

[Cuj0HD]

Mick, unfortunatly you are right. Paxtons or Rockler are about the only places close by to get good wood. But it is not cheap.
I have been looking for a supplier around here for some time. I can get some nice cedar from down around Tyler but that is all I have found so far. If I find any better sources I'll let you know.

[imported_MDEly1]

Here is another Craftsman rewrap, this time of a router. I believe their new model 26620 is the Bosch 1617EVS.

[ChefHDAN]

"I have the same questions too about the purpose of a planer and a jointer. Can't you joint things using a router?"

Yep, & you can dig a hole with a spoon too it's just gonna take more effort, and you'll be limited to around about 1" thick so it's mostly only aplicable to edge jointing for panel glue-ups. When it comes time to size your own lumber, it's cheaper, easier, and quite satisfying to know for SURE!, that your stock is the thickness you expect & dead-nuts square.

I started this addictive hobby, with just a Makita circular saw & a Skil 9.6v screwgun, slowly adding tools when my skills justified the proper tools. The up side is you'll become a better woodworker learning how to adapt the tools and sized stock to fit your visions, but the down side is you'll be kinda pissed the first time you zip a board through the jointer compared to mounting the router into the table, chucking up a straight bit,shimming the out feed fence, isolating the bearing, running a test cut & THEN jointing the board..

Hope this helps a bit, search any of the tool sites for pocket hole jig & you'll see a picture of what they are. Usefull for concealed joints, or can be plugged.

Take a spin through the Taunton Press' web site for a GREAT resource of wood information too

[imported_wbrooks]

Chefhdan, thanks for bringing back that memory, I had forgotten how much of a PITA is was to joint with my 8 amp craftsman 1/4" router and 18" X 12" craftsman table (even has HSS bits). I think I will go out and hug my 6" delta :D

[ChefHDAN]

You Betcha!!!

Ever use a 18" Rockwell???

OOOOHHH goosebumps

[axio]

Are you guys talking about the biscuit joiners like these?

Craftsman Biscuit Joiner (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00917550000&subcat=Jointers+%26+Planers)

[ChefHDAN]

surface joinTers not joiners!

[axio]

Oh I see... I just checked out the one on the Ridgid site. That looks too big and too pricey for me :D I'm just a rookie.

Are biscuit joiners any good btw, or will routers be fine? Can't I also just use a drill and dowels instead of a biscuit joiner.

[ChefHDAN]

AXIO,

Take a breath...First of all welcome to the addiction.

It keeps me sane, can't count the number of times I've visualized a catering salesperson, or shoemaker cook being zipped through my planer!

There are as many ways to join wood as there are to skin a cat & I started in a Chinese restaurant so trust me you can skin a cat ALOT of different ways.
A great contributor & poster over at woodworking.com has a sig line of "It's not the arrows it's the Indians.

That's a great bit of advice in this hobby because there are all sorts of gadgets, gimicks, and contraptions that vendors are more than happy to take your cash for. I didn't sink serious cash into my tool inventory until eight years of practice gave me the confidence to know how the tools should be used as well as that I could verify need exceeding want.

Most initial projects can be done with dimensional lumber from BORG and you can gain experience from conception to completion.

Go slow, use the books and knowledge that can be gained from the experience of others to aid in the development of core skills.

For me I just read a tutorial from an AWESOME WWer on TS cut dovetails, I've never cut a dovetail, & I'm not in the market for an expensive jig right now, but the basic facts gained over the net have me willing to build another box, if only to practice a SKILL!

What have you got for tools so far??
Like I said you can do a whole hell of alot with just a screw gun & a circ saw.

[axio]

Thanks for the advise. I'll just use what I have for now, and pick up a router and jig saw later today. The only woodworking tools I have are really just a basic Craftsman circular saw I used to the do Pergo flooring for my kitchen in my townhouse, which also limits my space as well being in a townhouse since I don't have a yard to store extra wood, etc. My garage is a tandem style two car garage in which my Prelude and my girlfriend's Accord park, and I have this section in the very back of it where I keep all my tools in this workbench, and a Craftsman standing garage tool chest (well, the top portion of one anyways). Most of my tools are automotive related as that used to be my hobby, but it has become too expensive to take any further.

I understand that I'm not a contractor, so I probably don't need contractor-grade tools, but I'd like to buy some decent wood-working tools to make simple things. The only contractor-work related things I've done are the pergo flooring and moldings, painting, and cutting/laying tiles at my parent's rental house (which a contractor later commented on saying that I did a pretty nice job hehe). I work from 5:30 am to around 1:30 pm and sometimes up until 5:30 pm doing financial analysis/accounting at this job I just hate that doesn't pay very much at all and kinda wastes my UC Berkeley degree. On the days that I'm lucky enough to get out of work by 1:30, I have a whole lot of time on my hands with nothing to do... so I just wanted to maybe start building things for our place. A bookshelf was on the top of my list, as well as something like that tall end-table that Mick made, and maybe a coffee table for a friend assuming I'd get enough practice and be able to make something worth giving away. I mostly want to do this as you've said, to keep your sanity. When I worked on cars, it kinda puts you at peace, and I think that this new hobby will do the same.

It kinda makes me wish I didn't get that Ridgid Stinger and opted for the larger 6 gallon Ridget wet/dry vac instead if I'm gonna be cutting wood in my garage now... not sure if the Stinger is up for the job.

[ 12-31-2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: axio ]

[axio]

Originally posted by Mick:
Axio,
thanks! before you make any sort of table, do yourself a favor and get the full pocket hole jig set from Lowes and lots of screws.
What a great way to cheat at woodworking!
oh, if you don't have an electric drill - which I didn't have, you need one that is fast. The low end ridged drill is a great tool.
- send pictures when you make something! It seems that we all talk about making stuff but I hardly ever see it - but when I do it is usually awesome. I would love to see more pictures of what people make for inspiration.

TTFN

Mc Hi Mick, what does the full pocket hole jig set do? Do I need any kinda tool that it hooks up with?

[Andrew75]

I think there is a topic just like this on Tool Info Forum. Check that out for more info.

[buctooth]

Yeah I posted that one too because there are some people on that forum that aren't members here.