No Health Insurance

[JCsPlumbing]

Just a theoretical discussion that probably won't happen....

What's your opinion of having all health insurance eliminated and the cost of services based on income/net worth?

So heart surgery for someone like Bill Gates might cost 1 billion dollars.

But for someone with my income it would be about 20 bucks. :rolleyes:

J.C.

[cpw]

What's your opinion of having all health insurance eliminated and the cost of services based on income/net worth?

So heart surgery for someone like Bill Gates might cost 1 billion dollars.

But for someone with my income it would be about 20 bucks. :rolleyes:
How 'bout the cost of a car is based on your income too? Unless Bill Gates is getting more value out of his heart surgery than you, why should he pay more for the same thing?

[JCsPlumbing]

How 'bout the cost of a car is based on your income too? Unless Bill Gates is getting more value out of his heart surgery than you, why should he pay more for the same thing?


Because although it's been tried and I've seen numbers, noone can really put a value on a human life as opposed to anything else. So value is not even in the equation of health.

And the cost of everything else in the U.S. is based on supply/demand except for healthcare. Don't believe me? I challenge you to go to any hospital and ask them for a price list.

Why don't they have one?

What I am saying is that it takes X amount of $ to operated a health system. The current method is to insure, deny, uninsured, medicare etc. that's a big ball of red tape with $ & efficiency lost along the way.

Alot of people I know want to have health insurance and cannot. They want to pay an affordable amount for premiums and copays but an affordable plan is unavailable to them. And the number of people in this category is increasing every day. Insurance may be at acceptable levels for some. But I believe they are in the minority.

I have no idea what you make but what if your health insurance was as much as 35% to 40% of your income? I know more than one person that this is the case.

I can't condone Socialized medical care but do find myself wondering about other answers.

J.C.

[Service Guy]

Socialized medicine? A lot of people are considering the idea in the US today. But I like it the way it is.
Life is expensive. That is my motto.

Health insurance is not a necessity. There is always the option of simply paying the doctor directly out-of-pocket.:)

[cpw]

Because although it's been tried and I've seen numbers, noone can really put a value on a human life as opposed to anything else. So value is not even in the equation of health.
But it is. My son got a hearing test that was useless for $270. Our pediatrician said we should get another, the first doctor gave us no value; so we went somewhere else. There is some value associated with heart surgery. If it was a billion dollars; or even just 1 million dollars it may or may not be worth it. For a million dollars, I would probably want it now. When I'm 70, I think I might rather have my wife and kids have the million dollars than a doctor/hospital/whoever else. I don't have a million bucks, so in practice I would go with out. I know that if I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, then they'll get a lot less than a million, so I've already put a value on my life.

And the cost of everything else in the U.S. is based on supply/demand except for healthcare. Don't believe me? I challenge you to go to any hospital and ask them for a price list.
I agree that it is no longer based on supply and demand, but I think that is because third party payers have distorted the market.

I think employers/insurers are beginning to wise up to this with high-deductible plans. Until we get $2400 worth of medical care a year, it is all out of pocket for us.

Why don't they have one?
I'm not actually sure they don't. I know that if I asked my pediatrician they would tell me what they would charge. Though, they probably don't know exactly how much they'll get paid.

What I am saying is that it takes X amount of $ to operated a health system. The current method is to insure, deny, uninsured, medicare etc. that's a big ball of red tape with $ & efficiency lost along the way.
I agree medical billing is terribly inefficient.

Alot of people I know want to have health insurance and cannot. They want to pay an affordable amount for premiums and copays but an affordable plan is unavailable to them. And the number of people in this category is increasing every day. Insurance may be at acceptable levels for some. But I believe they are in the minority.
But the whole idea that you want to have both an acceptable premium and a copay is the problem. You can't have it both ways. Either your premium will be high and it will cover everything; or your premium will be lower and your out-of-pocket will be higher.

For all other kinds of insurance, you don't make a claim unless there is an unexpected event. Health insurance is the only one that you submit normal expenses too; so it really becomes a form of prepaid medical care instead of true insurance.

I have no idea what you make but what if your health insurance was as much as 35% to 40% of your income? I know more than one person that this is the case.
I would drop it and take my chances.

[cpw]

Health insurance is not a necessity. There is always the option of simply paying the doctor directly out-of-pocket.:)

Also, to add if you are in need of critical care, then you'll get it whether or not you have health insurance.

[JCsPlumbing]

Socialized medicine? A lot of people are considering the idea in the US today. But I like it the way it is.
Life is expensive. That is my motto.

Health insurance is not a necessity. There is always the option of simply paying the doctor directly out-of-pocket.:)

Good to see Carl jump in. Now if I could just find MasterPlumb. :rolleyes:

Pay the doctor out of pocket? Call a couple of hospitals tomorrow and ask them their price for a gall bladder removal. That way you can decide which one you want to use based on performance, facilities, price, personnel.

Just like everything else, right?

J.C.

[ToUtahNow]

In theory this administration will be giving everyone Health Care but in the off chance they don't Carl is pretty much on the money to a point. We can all afford a $100 office visit but how many of us could afford a $40,000 operation or a $250,000 transplant? My medical bills over the last 5-years are well over $1,000,000 (most paid by insurance). It is important to have at least catastrophic coverage. The premiums are reasonable and they may save your home and business some day.

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

Thanks Charles. Almost all that I know are slowly going to HDHP's because traditional premiums have been placed out of reach for the majority.

Maybe the insurer & health industry needs the premium asked to function but for some reason it has ramped up considerably recently to make it become unaffordable to the masses.

J.C.

[Service Guy]

If I could start over again, (and my parents could afford it:rolleyes: )I would have gone to med school and become a doctor. I think they deserve all the money they make for the most part.
I once need life-saving surgery, and it costs $30,000, luckily I was insured. If I wasn't insured, I would have payed to the best of my ability. It may have taken a long time to pay it, but its worth it.....the alternative is death.:( At least we have a choice with modern medicine. A long time ago, I'd have simply died regardless of how much money I had.

[JCsPlumbing]

If I could start over again, (and my parents could afford it:rolleyes: )I would have gone to med school and become a doctor. I think they deserve all the money they make for the most part.
I once need life-saving surgery, and it costs $30,000, luckily I was insured. If I wasn't insured, I would have payed to the best of my ability. It may have taken a long time to pay it, but its worth it.....the alternative is death.:( At least we have a choice with modern medicine. A long time ago, I'd have simply died regardless of how much money I had.

I've seen on some programming and read what hospital interns go through to become doctors and I honestly don't know how they can do it sometimes. While health insurance is an ever increasing burden to most, good doctors are very unappreciated in my opinion. Just like plumbers. :D

I wouldn't mind so much paying doctors, nurses, etc. more. Just insurance companies less. :)

J.C.

[Service Guy]

BTW, now that I am the sole provider to my family, my personal choice is a high-deductible family insurance policy with BCBS. The deductibles are fairly high, so the premiums are low. It doesn't cover a lot of little stuff, whihc we end up paying out of pocket. HOWEVER, my entire family is covered for the really big stuff that could bankrupt us. Its the perfect policy for me.:)

[cpw]

I wouldn't mind so much paying doctors, nurses, etc. more. Just insurance companies less. :)
I've found there are more crappy doctors than good doctors. My doctor on LI was crappy, but he would write a prescription for antibiotics whenever I was sick enough to go, so I put up with the long wait and otherwise general crappiness.

I have higher standards for our pediatrician though [instead of trying to go there never, we go there every 2-3 months], and after we moved it took a couple of tries to get a pediatrician we are happy with. Our current one is great though, no nurses in the office; he does everything himself and doesn't rush it. Paying him is definitely worth it.

Edit: BTW, Would it make sense for the better doctors to be able to command higher rates? As long as we have the negotiated insurance rates, that is probably never going to happen.

[Service Guy]

Actually ALL my insurance (home, auto, health, liability) are low premium/high-deductible policies. I read a long time ago that high-deductibles are the smartest decision financially. That way you are only paying for the low-risk catastrophic stuff, and not paying for small stuff "that might happen, but might not." The way I look at it, I'd rather pay for the small stuff out-of-pocket rather than pay an insurance company a monthly fee "just in case" something happens.:rolleyes:

[JCsPlumbing]

Actually ALL my insurance (home, auto, health, liability) are low premium/high-deductible policies. I read a long time ago that high-deductibles are the smartest decision financially. That way you are only paying for the low-risk catastrophic stuff, and not paying for small stuff "that might happen, but might not." The way I look at it, I'd rather pay for the small stuff out-of-pocket rather than pay an insurance company a monthly fee "just in case" something happens.:rolleyes:

Been doing that too for a good while. Good tips.

J.C.

[JCsPlumbing]

Charles. Good doctors should definitely be able to demand higher rates!

Competition brings better product and better pricing. :)

J.C.

[Frankiarmz]

Good "Thread" idea. Since we are playing what if, here are my thoughts. If you did away with all HMO's and insurances, right off the bat there would be tens of thousands of folks who work in that industry unemployed. Really, just for a moment think of the shock to the healthcare industry from that perspective before you even begin to consider paying for services rendered? Now to the matter of paying for treatment and surgical procedures, are you trying to provide medical and health care for all Americans or is your goal to simply charge according to ability to pay? Before I try and go into this amazingly complex issue, I'd like to say that while life is precious in general terms there is a price affixed to it by not only the medical and healthcare industries but by individuals and our society. Could we afford to care for children and adults from all income brackets if so much money, energy and effort was not invested into prolonging the life of terminally people and the elderly ( elderly is a vague term for whatever you consider to be old)? Would reducing unwanted pregnancies and abortions and adopting the legalization of assisted suicide free up hospital beds and unburden a system gone haywire? Would putting a cap on malpractice awards reduce the cost of doctor, surgeon and other healthcare fees? In my opinion we can no more afford to provide the same level of healthcare for everyone, (as much as that would be the Christian or humane thing to do), as we can continue to allow the rest of the world to provide us with all our consumer goods and needs. Communism doesn't work, socialized medicine stinks, a once great country that has forgotten how to provide for itself cannot do everything for everyone. Once upon a time years ago there was no health insurance industry, you paid the doctor and you paid the hospital and if you could not pay and had no money maybe the state would step in or a "Charity" might help. There was no middle man complicating things and inflating costs. Once upon a time years ago, we made things in this country, furniture, applicances, clothing, cars, electronics, instruments, toys, and many, many other things that supported workers and businesses and communities and the government. Somewhere along the line during the last forty or so years we've become distracted, busy watching tv, sports, entertainment, busy working and raising families and taking vactions and buying things and more things. During our time of distraction the rest of the world focused on building factories and making what we consumed, they educated their workforce to answer tech and customer phone lines. Important subjects like the housing, auto and healthcare industries will not matter in the long run if we cannot rebuild a strong economy on a rock solid foundation.Bailouts and stimulus plans are a farce and will do as little good to resolve our economic problems as charging more to those who can afford to pay more for healthcare. We are in trouble!

[Bob D.]

Charles. Good doctors should definitely be able to demand higher rates!

Competition brings better product and better pricing. :)

J.C.

Problem is you can't get rid of the bad doctors easily, and they are out there unfortunately.

You can probably find out more about a prospective plumbers or electricians performance than a doctor.

Who just said they took their kid in for a hearing test and got no value out of it. If you had called a plumber to install a new faucet and it leaked you'd be wanting your money back. With doctors we (in general) just take it in stride.

I went to the Emergency Room one day because I was having severe pain in my shoulder and upper arm and neck. I was driving at the time and only a couple blocks from the hospital so I drive right there and called the wife while en route. The doctor that finally looked at the x-rays 4 hours later said it was nothing and sent me home. Next morning I get a call from the hospital from another doctor saying he has looked at my x-rays and that I should get back there ASAP. Go right to the ER and tell them he is admitting me and to take me to Intensive Care and page him as soon as I get there.

The first doctor didn't have a clue when it came to reading x-rays. I had three blood clots in my right lung and if they had broke loose and moved I might not be here now.

The idiot doctor is still there today. The hospital never made a move against him.

[cpw]

Who just said they took their kid in for a hearing test and got no value out of it. If you had called a plumber to install a new faucet and it leaked you'd be wanting your money back. With doctors we (in general) just take it in stride.
You're right, I finally sent the dipstick a check yesterday after six months.

[darius]

What makes me cringe (for the lack of a better word) is the "socialized medicine this, socialize medicine that" approach often used in debates about the US medical system. The term is meant as a scare crow to those who don't have enough understanding what is important to the society, or how other societies in the world work. They all have their negative and positive sides but none, including the US, is perfect. As for "socialized medicine". take France for example. I know, know, just please don't throw in another childish term (the Freedom Fries) in the debate.

Well, I know first hand how it works in France and it works great in all aspects. The response is prompt. The doctor comes to your house if needed (no extra fees), and the level of medical care is superb. For the record I am not French.

Another aspect of the frightening word I'd like to mention is the fact that the US is already socialized in so many aspects. You drive on socialized roads, eat socialized food (FDA) and maintain socialized military. All these are maintained from taxpayers money and few would like to suggest that the military should earn their income by, let's say, invading Nigeria and controlling their oil fields.

It has always made me wonder how it has been throughout human history that so much of nations' wealth was used to kill peoples in other countries, but so little to keep one's own in good health. I would have the nation's health is of paramount strategic importance.

[VASandy]

Darius, you bring up some very interesting points. In the early part of my career, I worked in medical research. That's one area where the US excels. We can research the heck out of things. All that research is funded by the pharmaceutical companies, and some by the Feds. NIH is the federal research branch, but there are pharmaceutical-based research studies at just about every large hospital system in the US. Think of Johns Hopkins University Hospital, and you think of a well-respected top-notch hospital that you would trust with your life. That's because they built a reputation with research funds from pharmaceutical companies. That's also why a lot of medicine is so expensive in the US. It's expensive to run research. It's life-saving and tremendously effective. Next time you have to pay full price for a bottle of medicine think about what went into getting that bottle from the lab to your pharmacy. The research being done in the US is not being done off-shore. That's why people from France, Germany, UK, even the Arab Emirates come to the US for health care for the very worst of illnesses. You don't get high-quality research in a socialized medicine environment.

Yes, our military is what some people would call socialized. It's what I call constitutional. A military is a scary thing, and must therefore be part of a system that can regulate it. We are American, and we are free because we keep a well armed military. You don't fund a truly effective military force with bake sales.

Socialism is a scary thing for most Americans. The more governmental reach you give the feds, the less personal freedoms you have. Although I feel it's worth mentioning that freedom is a RESPONSIBILITY and must never be taken for granted. We must each do what is required of us to make the whole work. I think that fact has gotten lost over the past 50-60 years.

[ToUtahNow]

I almost cannot imagine a road system which was all privatized. While it may help solve unemployment with toll both agents it would sure take a long time to drive across town. As for France's medical system I am not familiar with it. However, I have heard horror stories about France's cradle to grave socialism and how it is starting to really hurt France.

Mark

[darius]

Think of Johns Hopkins University Hospital, and you think of a well-respected top-notch hospital that you would trust with your life. That's because they built a reputation with research funds from pharmaceutical companies. That's also why a lot of medicine is so expensive in the US. It's expensive to run research.

Research certainly costs money, but not as much as the pharma companies would like you to believe. If they chopped TV ads their costs would go down by about 50%. Yes, they spend more on ads than on research. To ad insult to injury, they make people think it's OK to tell people what thye should tel doctors to prescribe to them. What's happened to medical journals and direct pharma-physician relations?


[/quote]Next time you have to pay full price for a bottle of medicine think about what went into getting that bottle from the lab to your pharmacy. The research being done in the US is not being done off-shore. That's why people from France, Germany, UK, even the Arab Emirates come to the US for health care for the very worst of illnesses. You don't get high-quality research in a socialized medicine environment.[/quote]

Actually, this is popular misconception. In fact, there is plenty of research occuring outside of the US. Look at the top ten pharmaceutical companies and where they do most of their research:

1 Johnson and Johnson U.S.
2 Pfizer U.S.
3 Bayer Germany
4 GlaxoSmithKline UK
5 Novartis Switzerland
6 Sanofi-Aventis France
7 Hoffmann–La Roche Switzerland
8 AstraZeneca UK/Sweden
9 Merck & Co. U.S.
10 Abbott Laboratories U.S.

Many of those, including the American ones, in fact offshored some of their research facilities to India and China.

Out of the countries in that list, only the US does not have "socialized" medicine. All the others do.

As for the full price... well, it depends where you buy it. Canadian government had to impose laws to prevent Americans from purchasing prescription drugs online from Canadian pharmacies. As far as I know, the humiliating trips of American seniors to Canada to fill their prescriptions has been somewhat curbed. Long story short, the same drugs, including the US researched and manufactured, cost Canadians between 10 and 20% what Americans have to pay. Nothing to do with the real research to price ratio, but simply whatever the market will bear. Americans will pay more so they are charged more.


As for France's medical system I am not familiar with it.

It's damn good. And you don't have to wait 6 hours to be admitted by a doctor like I had to numerous times when I lived in the NYC, NY.

The last time when I was in France my daughter had some really bad throat infection. A doctor was at our place within 45 minutes. Accompanied by a nurse. He left a bottle of antibiotics and, since we're not French citizens, we had to pay cash. All of $25.00. That included the visit and the meds.

However, I have heard horror stories about France's cradle to grave socialism and how it is starting to really hurt France.
Yeah, I also heard stories about that witch on the broom and Red Riding Hood. ;)

But seriously, France is not without its problems. Are they bigger than those faced by Americans? Depends on what is important to you. To many health certainly is pretty high up on the list of personal priorities. The French are well covered in this respect.

[drainman881999]

Good to see Carl jump in. Now if I could just find MasterPlumb. :rolleyes:

Pay the doctor out of pocket? Call a couple of hospitals tomorrow and ask them their price for a gall bladder removal. That way you can decide which one you want to use based on performance, facilities, price, personnel.

Just like everything else, right?

J.C.

Gall bladder removal in hospital,with a in/out(the door)of 18 hours-$18,000.00 as of 16 months ago In Jackson,MS.-----(Just one hospital only)

[drainman881999]

Gall bladder removal in hospital,with a in/out(the door)of 18 hours-$18,000.00 as of 16 months ago In Jackson,MS.-----(Just one hospital only)

It's hard for the average someone to pull that kind of money out of their pockets.

A balance should be sought between Profit + Need + income.

Most people of any race,creed,or gender wants to pay their way in this life,some needs a little more help than others.But they will pay.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Do they have insurance that you can buy by the body part.


I'm looking for left kidney insurance.


Anyone got any, hit me up. word

[ToUtahNow]

http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14/health-care-around-the-world-france/

Here is a link to an article which rates France at the top end of affordable health care in the World. However, it also says 92% of the citizens buy secondary insurance to cover the short fall for what is not covered by Universal Health Care (good plan by the way) and the system is still running abut $13,000,000,000 in the red per year. France's population is only 20% of ours so I guess with the same system our system would have an annual deficit of $65,000,000,000. One more factor is while France estimates between 200,000 and 400,000 illegal aliens live in France the number here is estimated to be between12,000,000 and 20,000,000. Regardless of the debate regarding illegal aliens I don't believe either country would let a sick person just go unattended. As such there is addition strains on the system from illegal aliens in both countries.

On top of that it says the average doctor in France makes about $51,000 per year. It seems we are definitely talking apples and oranges here. That is only half the amount paid to doctors in my group for their first year out of residency. I would have a hard time telling a new doctor he is not worth $100,000 let alone $51,000. Without getting too personal my sons and son-in-laws working civil service in our area are making over $100,000 per year.

At the end of the day I believe Universal Health Care is a great idea which the Government would totally screw up.

Mark

[JCsPlumbing]

Do they have insurance that you can buy by the body part.


I'm looking for left kidney insurance.


Anyone got any, hit me up. word

Dunbar, that will be in the new Ridgid Swap Shop. ;)

Along with that S.O.B and his "Cheap Nike tennis shoes for you" posting.

J.C.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Cool!


I'll go sharpen the knives for removal, harvest of the new organ.

[Gizmoman]

I had bi-lateral knee replacement in late November. The

[Gizmoman]

I had bi-lateral knee replacement in late November. The


I screwed up the last post so I will try again.
In late November I had Bi-lateral (both knees) knee replacement. All the bills combined were $150,000 plus. Six weeks after surgery they figured out I had a staph infection in my left knee. So they had to go back in and fix it. Anyone involved in the surgery billed the insurance company again. If we screw something up in our field of work we have to fix it at our cost. If I had to do it over again I would be a surgeon. They pretty much use the same tools, only difference is theres are stainless steel for cleaning purposes. I think the whole medical thing stinks. I got the staph in the hospital and they charge the insurance company again. Whats up with that!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frankiarmz]

There are too many horror stories associated to doctors and hospitals to mention but a few off the top of my head in recent news, doctor who reused the same syringe on multiple patients cross infecting some with hepatitis, aids, etc., surgical removal of the wrong limb or organ, bone transplants using cadaver bones from peole with serious diseases. Hundred of women who went to a fertility doctor for artificial insemination only to find out he used "his" sperm for all of them! You are lucky to leave a hospital in one piece and better health than when you were admitted! Whenever I'm in a doctors' office examining room, I always check the date on the medicine bottles. I have found medine such as lidocaine to be expired by several years, needless to say I did not return to that doctor. Healthcare can be a crapshoot, so be on the lookout for whatever you think is important.

[drainman881999]

As high as medical care is,I am glad we have VERY good DOCTORS IN THIS WORLD.

[Gizmoman]

There are too many horror stories associated to doctors and hospitals to mention but a few off the top of my head in recent news, doctor who reused the same syringe on multiple patients cross infecting some with hepatitis, aids, etc., surgical removal of the wrong limb or organ, bone transplants using cadaver bones from peole with serious diseases. Hundred of women who went to a fertility doctor for artificial insemination only to find out he used "his" sperm for all of them! You are lucky to leave a hospital in one piece and better health than when you were admitted! Whenever I'm in a doctors' office examining room, I always check the date on the medicine bottles. I have found medine such as lidocaine to be expired by several years, needless to say I did not return to that doctor. Healthcare can be a crapshoot, so be on the lookout for whatever you think is important.


You are 100% correct, we all need to be carefull. I pretty much got lucky with the staph. My physical therapist was the one that had concerns with the way my knee looked.

[drainman881999]

Just a theoretical discussion that probably won't happen....

What's your opinion of having all health insurance eliminated and the cost of services based on income/net worth?

So heart surgery for someone like Bill Gates might cost 1 billion dollars.

But for someone with my income it would be about 20 bucks. :rolleyes:

J.C.

J.C.,you have a head full of brains,and I for one, am glad you let some of your thoughts trickle out in the form of posts.Good discussions.

[NHMaster3015]

My heart surgery was done by Dr. Helms, the same surgeon that did David Lettermans. He is an absolute miracle worker and a god in my eyes. Total cost. Close to a 1/4 million. Cost to me. 400 bucks. Insurance is a wonderful thing. :o

[tinmack]

My heart surgery was done by Dr. Helms, the same surgeon that did David Lettermans. He is an absolute miracle worker and a god in my eyes. Total cost. Close to a 1/4 million. Cost to me. 400 bucks. Insurance is a wonderful thing. :o



Total cost - $250000


Being alive to annoy/enlighten/misspell with wild abandonment - PRICELESS!:D

[Frankiarmz]

Total cost - $250000


Being alive to annoy/enlighten/misspell with wild abandonment - PRICELESS!:D

You got some sharp mind and sense of humor! Thanks for the laugh.

[JCsPlumbing]

Thanks drainman. :o The feeling is likewise.

Wow NH! That sounds like some good insurance. State supported or private plan? What percentage are the premiums of your income? (That shouldn't be too personal. Won't give anyone the real number of either)

Learned bunches from the thread. Most would like to see improvement but aren't sure of the exact path it should take. :rolleyes: No surprise I suppose.

I learned some about France's system that I knew nothing about. And that maybe we should (or I should) rethink & not necessarily fear the "label" of Socialized Medical systems. Maybe the U.S. really has this system already depending on your interpretation.

Right now, it seems to me good people in the medical field can be overworked and underpaid.

Some things that weren't touched on that I think contribute to high premiums:

1) Pricing of items from hospitalization can be way out of whack. $10.00 for a .10 Tylenol! Heard about it more than once. How would my customers feel if I sold $100.00 toilets for $10,000? Would they accept it if they had good "Plumbing Insurance?" ;)

2) Unethical & frivolous lawsuits toward the medical profession causing their malpractice premiums to be astronomical.

3) People that will go to the doctor for everything just because they have insurance. The sniffles, sprains, & small cuts of life. Ducttape and a napkin can cure alot. :wink2:

4) Illegals burdening the system causing hospitals to be forced to make up costs with billing of covered legal citizens.

5) Subcontracted billing systems that are just a mess. And they sometimes are paid based on percentage billed. Ever wonder why you continue to get bills for items covered & already paid? :rolleyes:

Many others I'm sure.


And now a story......

A few years back my mother had a medical procedure with about 2 days stay. She was insured at the time through her employer for a percentage of costs. Upon discharge my Pops demanded to know what his part would be to pay before they left and he would pay them right then if possible as he doesn't want to owe anyone.
NOONE in the place knew what to do! They finally all got in a room with the top administrator & about an hour or so later they were paid.

And the Red Tape process seems to have gotten worse in alot of cases.

J.C.

[Frankiarmz]

Thanks drainman. :o The feeling is likewise.

Wow NH! That sounds like some good insurance. State supported or private plan? What percentage are the premiums of your income? (That shouldn't be too personal. Won't give anyone the real number of either)

Learned bunches from the thread. Most would like to see improvement but aren't sure of the exact path it should take. :rolleyes: No surprise I suppose.

I learned some about France's system that I knew nothing about. And that maybe we should (or I should) rethink & not necessarily fear the "label" of Socialized Medical systems. Maybe the U.S. really has this system already depending on your interpretation.

Right now, it seems to me good people in the medical field can be overworked and underpaid.

Some things that weren't touched on that I think contribute to high premiums:

Pricing of items from hospitalization can be way out of whack. $10.00 for a .10 Tylenol! Heard about it more than once. How would my customers feel if I sold $100.00 toilets for $10,000? Would they accept it if they had good "Plumbing Insurance?" ;)

Unethical & frivolous lawsuits toward the medical profession causing their malpractice premiums to be astronomical.

People that will go to the doctor for everything just because they have insurance. The sniffles, sprains, & small cuts of life. Ducttape and a napkin can cure alot. :wink2:

Illegals burdening the system causing hospitals to be forced to make up costs with billing of covered legal citizens.

Subcontracted billing systems that are just a mess. And they sometimes are paid based on percentage billed. Ever wonder why you continue to get bills for items covered & already paid? :rolleyes:


And now a story......

A few years back my mother had a medical procedure with about 2 days stay. She was insured at the time through her employer for a percentage of costs. Upon discharge my Pops demanded to know what his part would be to pay before they left and he would pay them right then if possible as he doesn't want to owe anyone.
NOONE in the place knew what to do! They finally all got in a room with the top administrator & about an hour or so later they were paid.

And the Red Tape process seems to have gotten worse in alot of cases.

J.C.

J.C., on page two of this thread post #17 I gave a laundry list of reasons why our healthcare is so expensive and still so limited. How many times have you head the saying "Save the ones you can" during some movie drama? Unless choices are made regarding life and death and all the things both you and I mentioned, costs will continue to rise and care will continue to fall. My Father passed away about a year and a half ago from age related leukemia. I respected and loved him dearly, he was a good Dad and a kind soul. He lived on frequent transfusions, experienced a very poor quality of life and passed away three years after being diagnosed at the age of eighty eight. My point is that money whether paid by individuals or insurance is not limitless, facilities and personnel are not inexhaustable. We can continue to treat the illegals at costs reaching the millions in some cases, the terminally ill and the very elderly but at the expense of children and others who have some better prospect of living. My opinons may sound morbid or insulting but we either save the ones we can by changing our core beliefs regarding suicide, prolonging life, and making choices or we continue to over spend. The same applies to our economy which is bleeding out as we refuse to resolve the situation of illegals and continue to pay others for the goods we consume. My rant is over.

[NHMaster3015]

Insurance is through the teachers union :D

Smartest thing I ever done done in my life.:D

Living on a diet of bacon, butter and icecream would have been the dumbest.:D

[JCsPlumbing]

Insurance is through the teachers union :D

Smartest thing I ever done done in my life.:D

Living on a diet of bacon, butter and icecream would have been the dumbest.:D

An organization that forces or voluntarily requires dues with equal disbursement to members as needed. Sounds like you have Socialist insurance and are happy with it. ;)

J.C.

[NHMaster3015]

No damn it. I hate it. :rolleyes: I'm what you call a closet union member.:D

[Service Guy]

An organization that forces or voluntarily requires dues with equal disbursement to members as needed. Sounds like you have Socialist insurance and are happy with it. ;)

J.C.

:killingme: :killingme: :killingme:
:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
:bow-down:

[Frankiarmz]

No damn it. I hate it. :rolleyes: I'm what you call a closet union member.:D

I won't praise Unions again, your choice to love'em or hate'em. Glad you were able to get the coverage and life saving surgery.