Sewer Line and Tree Roots

[Gregthedummy]

Hello,

I am not very good at things around the house and I have had my sewer line back up on me twice it was a MESS ! Both times had it cleaned out the RotoRooter guy pulled out some tree roots... I have had the line cameraed and they say I have tree rootes .. I have PVC pipe which every plumber tells me it is extremely rare to have tree rootes in PVC pipe but my luck I do ...

Here is my issue... I have clean out in my garage approx five inches out from my concerete wall. The camera shows that I have roots about two feet on either side of my clean out.. which puts the one side on the "outside of my foundation wall and the other puts it about two feet inside my foundation wall. I have had a cherry tree that was sitting about 6 feet from house on the outside taken out... one plumber wants to dig straight down side of my house and see what is going on then if he needs to get to the "inside" he will tunnel under my house footer and reach up and under to get to it.. I have two other plumbers tell me that is not the way to go they suggest jack hammering up my garage floor to get to it that way they advise against going under the footer ? I am thinking since they would only need to dig a three or four foot wide hole to reach under the footer that should not be big deal ? I would appreciate anyone giving me some feedback on best way to repair this... it seems to me jack hammering my floor right next to my house footer would be more dangerous to the integrity of my foundation .. what do u think ?

[EasyEman]

Do you have post tension cables in you slab? If so jack hammering or cutting will void your warranty. How old is the house? Is the footer thick? What is the house made of?

I think starting outside is the better solution as long as it is only two feet either way.

[PLUMBER RICK]

here is your problem;)

how long have you lived there? when was this cleanout installed?

the problem dates back to the person who installed that cleanout in the first place. when you say 2' from both sides of cleanout, i say the joints they cut in to connect to the existing line.

know that you have a track record of where the roots are. you can address them with a foaming root killer. the 2' downstream roots can easily be addressed via the c/o. the 2' upstream will probably foam up 2' in reverse, but no way to know unless you use plenty of root killer.

the time to foam them is immediately after cutting, or a minimum of 6 weeks after they were cut. then a minimum of 6 hours of non use.

you have nothing to lose but the cost of the do it yourself foam you can buy on ebay. "root-x" is the foam of choice.

this would be my choice as it's not been attempted yet and has a proven track record to kill roots.

rick.

[drtyhands]

Based on the information you've given I would dig from the outside,if it is truely needed.

You are wise to be sceptical.
I've seen a lot of very convincing plumbers screw up or intentionally cost homeowners unneccessary large amounts of money.

This may be a good candidate for a pipe lining at the location under the house accessed from the outside.
Depends on how resonable the lining contractor "Wants" to be.

[Gene Bickford]

Did you actually watch them camera the line, or did they provide a complete video of the inspection, or are you just going off what they said they saw?

Roots in PVC sounds a bit fishy, but possible to me.
Do you have Cast Iron inside the home, and at some point outside it changes over to PVC, or is it all PVC?

I agree with Dirtyhands, if everything is as you say, it sounds like a reline or Fernco Pipe Patch would be a better option.

[Gregthedummy]

I watched them camera the liine so it is honestly a tree root problem and yes I know everyone I talk to about these keeps telling me that to have tree roots in PVC is rare.. the plumber who cameraed the line really did not want to do it he was convinced I did NOT have tree roots and tried to talk me out of it, but I wanted piece of mine to know and as my luck goes .. bad.. I have them !!!

I have no idea whether my footer has post tension cables how would I know this ? I think my plumber is est that my footer is about 18 inches.

House built in 1990 in Lexington Kentucky. I have lived in it since 1998 I had this same line cleaned out in 2006 same exact location was the problem. I have large tree just on outside of foundation wall only about 6 ft away from house and the landscaping is sloped downhill... I have no idea why they put a tree so close to house... !!

Thks for all the feedback ! I am really leaning towards starting from outside I am about 90% sure that is what I am going to I got to thinking you know if they jack hammer up my garage floor "then" decide they need to dig.. my floor is already tore up .. so I think the best option is outside then if worse comes to worse then take up the floor... the weird thing about these roots is my sewer line runs perpendicular to the house foundation and the clean out sits about 2 foot to the inside of the wall I bought myself one of those snake cameras Milwaukee makes neat tool.. and even after Roto Rooter cleaned the line 3 weeks ago and I cut tree down to stump about two weeks ago.. the line is still full of roots I don't think Roto Rooter did very good job cleaning the line.. but back to the weird thing... when you open the clean out up and look down it you see no roots but if you go 1 ft either direction you will see bunch of them I guess it is coming in around the connections from to the clean out "T".

My wife has theory we had termites about 4 years ago and they guy you put chemicals down side of foundation of house did so with some type of pressurized gun.. the termites were in the same area I am having problems she thinks he may have somehow cracked the PVC pipe when he injected the chemicals ? He did tell me he put some "extra chemical" in the problem area the guy is Christian and was trying to do good so even if this did cause problem i am not upset with him .. but it is interesting it is in the same area...

[PLUMBER RICK]

before you spend a lot more money, spend $30 and put in 2# of root-x. have nothing to lose but $30.

we use it with good success;)

rick.

[wrench spinner]

My wife has theory we had termites about 4 years ago and they guy you put chemicals down side of foundation of house did so with some type of pressurized gun.. the termites were in the same area I am having problems she thinks he may have somehow cracked the PVC pipe when he injected the chemicals ? He did tell me he put some "extra chemical" in the problem area the guy is Christian and was trying to do good so even if this did cause problem i am not upset with him .. but it is interesting it is in the same area...

How deep do they go with those probes, and arent they only a probe that gets pushed down? If it is an auger that goes down 30" or so it is definitley a possibility!

[haycad]

I agree with rick on this one do the chemical root treatement first before you start tearing a bunch of stuff up.

[EasyEman]

Does roto rooter guarantee their work? If so Have them come back and cut the roots. Then use Plumber Ricks root X then get the camera in there to see if there is something that needs to be repaired. The tree is gone so the roots will stop growing in there no need to dig without seeing the pipe.

[jrsaltz]

I will be going to the Cleaner Show in Louisville on Wednesday. I will bring the pipe patch equipment along and swing by on the way out of town.:D

We can patch right over the root intrusions and case closed.:thumbup2:

[drtyhands]

I will be going to the Cleaner Show in Louisville on Wednesday. I will bring the pipe patch equipment along and swing by on the way out of town.:D

We can patch right over the root intrusions and case closed.:thumbup2:

That's what I'm talking about.
Right on Que Jake.

How's Chris doing these days,Tell him we said Hi.

[Gregthedummy]

Roto Rooter here is a joke.. they charged me $267 and it hasn't been two weeks and I bought one of those snake cameras (small ones only three feet but that is all I need cause my problem is just inside the clean out) and there are still bunches of roots...

I called talked to some house foundation repair places asked them what they recommended.. they said by all means to jake hammer not dig around the footer which shocked me !!! they said as long as the concrete floor is "cut" first then to jack hammer enough to break it up and pick it up in maybe a 3ft by 3ft square would be less of threat then digging under the footer... I called 3 places and all three told me the same thing.. they also said to wait til the temp got up above 50 degrees so I could be sure the concrete patch would cure correctly ! what you guys think now ??? I am really in pickle on this I hate making decisions like this !!! kinda d if you do and d if you dont' ... .oh well that is life I guess ! :)

By the way to dig it up cost bid is $1875 and to cut and jack hammer it is $1130.. this also suprised me I thought the jack hammer job would cost more...

[wrench spinner]

PM JRSALTZ tonite, schedule him for wednesday and sleep at night. Fernco pipe patch it!

[drtyhands]

PM JRSALTZ tonite, schedule him for wednesday and sleep at night. Fernco pipe patch it!

I agree.

The last thing I would want is a concrete patch to look at in my home.

If you want to snake,video and immediately root-x and hope they never come back is a cheap route.Hopefully you're wife doesn't ever hit you up for shrubbery in the front of the house let alone anyone ever putting in a tree within 50'or more.

On the other hand,
You could dig a simple hole outside the house,look up the pipe at the roots,cut the roots,evaluate if the pipe needs replacement,if not,sleeve it.And if worse case then cut your beautiful garage floor.
And there you go no more doubt or questions.

Yes,as far as the liability factor of someone digging under a footing and your house cracking in half.All I can say is I wish this world wasn't so quick to file a lawsuit or someone could easily dig under your footing
and recompact as to not lessen the integrity of your foundation.Ask them what they think about backfilling under the footing with "SLURRY".

Please keep us up to speed on this I would Very Much like to know how a PVC system loses enough integrity to let roots in.

[EasyEman]

Does roto rooter guarantee their work? If so Have them come back and cut the roots. If they guarantee the work then hold them to it, or get your money back.
Then get the camera in there to see if there is something that needs to be repaired.
The tree is gone so the roots will stop growing in there no need to dig without seeing the pipe. :confused:

[tchads]

How big a hole under the footing are we talking here? A typical concrete footing in northern NJ is 18in or more across and at least 12in thick with #4 or larger rebar in it. Unless you dig under a support column or remove the earth under several feet of the footing, it should span the hole without a problem.

Not being a plumber, or a big fan of digging, I like Rick's idea best - something about waging chemical warfare against roots appeals to me :rolleyes:.

[jrsaltz]

That's what I'm talking about.
Right on Que Jake.

How's Chris doing these days,Tell him we said Hi.

I'm serious, we'll do it but I haven't seen a PM and we are leaving at 7am tomorrow. Oh well!

Chris is good! He is a proud new daddy of a beautiful baby girl.

I've been working his tail off lately so we can have a good time at the pumper show. He turned in 72 hours today:eek::eek:.

I'm gonna make him buy drinks now down there.:D

[Cuda]

Sure like to know what the outcome of this was? I have done a lot of reading on the Fernco Pipe Patch and think it would have been a great choice for this job. I actually think the pipe patch from fernco is a great product and am going to start using it myself. I think it's a easy sell in these economic times.

[stxrus]

Roots in PVC sounds a bit fishy, but possible to me.

I watched them camera the line so it is honestly a tree root problem and yes I know everyone I talk to about these keeps telling me that to have tree roots in PVC is rare..

I have large tree just on outside of foundation wall only about 6 ft away from house and the landscaping is sloped downhill... I have no idea why they put a tree so close to house... !!

.. and even after Roto Rooter cleaned the line 3 weeks ago and I cut tree down to stump about two weeks ago.. the line is still full of roots..

i encounter this all the time. the roots either push up or push down the PVC causing it to crack or separating a poor glue joint, or pushing a rock into the pipe causing a void.

you can cut down a tree but in some cases the roots can continue to grow for to to 7 years. even if you poison the stump

another vote for RootX. it's cheaper than pipe replacement until the issue becomes a blockage from dirt, rocks etc. then a replacement is necessary. you have time to $ave for that day.

steve

[EricMelvin01]

PipePatch! anyone in PA. who needs pipe patch im your guy!!!!!

[wookie]

i encounter this all the time. the roots either push up or push down the PVC causing it to crack or separating a poor glue joint, or pushing a rock into the pipe causing a void.

you can cut down a tree but in some cases the roots can continue to grow for to to 7 years. even if you poison the stump

another vote for RootX. it's cheaper than pipe replacement until the issue becomes a blockage from dirt, rocks etc. then a replacement is necessary. you have time to $ave for that day.

steve

Not doubting you Steve just wondering what the consensus is among everyone here in regards to root growth after cutting down the offending tree??

wookie

[stxrus]

proven biological fact.

some trees/roots are more insidious than others

steve

[DanLawrence]

here is your problem;)

how long have you lived there? when was this cleanout installed?

the problem dates back to the person who installed that cleanout in the first place. when you say 2' from both sides of cleanout, i say the joints they cut in to connect to the existing line.

know that you have a track record of where the roots are. you can address them with a foaming root killer. the 2' downstream roots can easily be addressed via the c/o. the 2' upstream will probably foam up 2' in reverse, but no way to know unless you use plenty of root killer.

the time to foam them is immediately after cutting, or a minimum of 6 weeks after they were cut. then a minimum of 6 hours of non use.

you have nothing to lose but the cost of the do it yourself foam you can buy on ebay. "root-x" is the foam of choice.

this would be my choice as it's not been attempted yet and has a proven track record to kill roots.

rick.



I thought this would be a good opportunity to let out a little secret since you brought it up. As of January 1st, 2010 RootX is restricted for sale on any third party auction sites. A plumbing company can sell the product on their own company site. However sites restricted include companies such as Ebay, Amazon, yahoo, ect. There are numerous reasons why the owners and president of RootX has chosen to go this route and it would take pages to explain them.

[wookie]

proven biological fact.

some trees/roots are more insidious than others

steve

Sorry, didn't ask my question correctly. No doubt roots continue growing just wondering for how long?? Type of tree makes a difference I'm sure.

wookie

[DanLawrence]

Finally, someone brought up a topic I can sound intelligent about. Most tree roots can grow for several yrs. The determining factors depends on the species of tree, climate conditions, rain and other factors. A tree cut in Oregon in the valley would last 3-6 yrs on average because it's to wet here and the wood will decay faster.

It also depends on the "Living Stump" this happens when a tree is cut and the stump left is next to another tree. the stump can sustain itself for several years before it dies. The reason why roots can continue to grow is that trees don't have brains. They don't have a central system to tell them to stop doing what they where designed to do. There for it may take several yrs for the system to break down once the tree is cut.

If the stump creates small sprouts or cuttings also are called a "stool". This is a method that many forest services use for replenishing the forests this method is called coppicing. When this happens then the roots will continue to grow so you want kill any sprouts if you don't want that tree back and the roots to grow.

[stxrus]

:bravo:

you said in a few words what would take me volumes to

here in the tropics the Tan Tan, Ginger Thomas, Ficus, Mahogany, Almond, Breadfruit, & Rubber trees are our biggest problem trees even though palms, hibiscus, bougainvilla, & Sea Grape can be almost as bad

steve

[DanLawrence]

:bravo:

you said in a few words what would take me volumes to

here in the tropics the Tan Tan, Ginger Thomas, Ficus, Mahogany, Almond, Breadfruit, & Rubber trees are our biggest problem trees even though palms, hibiscus, bougainvilla, & Sea Grape can be almost as bad

steve


If you want to cut down some Mahogany and ship up here i will be gladly help you get rid of it. I will even pay for shipping. :D
Mahogany sells for more then gold here.