Ridgid R4511 overkill?

[fastlane]

After suffering with an old craftsman TS for the past few years I've decided to upgrade. I wish I had chosen to do this before building my HT room in my house but oh well. The majority of use that this table saw will see is cutting 4x8 sheets for counter tops, a little miter work here and there, and some occasional ripping of 2x2/4 etc. I'm sure it's uses will grow down the road, but I don't see myself building cabinets or the like anytime soon, if ever. I have my name on a 4511 coming into HD and when I was in there I saw (pun intended :D) they received the new R4516, which appears to have quite a few neat features for the price. For the average DIY is the 4511 overkill for most applications? Would the 4516 handle most tasks well, that most people would use it for? The way I look at it, for the money saved between the 2, I could pick up a couple more finish nail guns for doing all the crown and trim around my house.

All inputs and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

[cpw]

After suffering with an old craftsman TS for the past few years I've decided to upgrade. I wish I had chosen to do this before building my HT room in my house but oh well. The majority of use that this table saw will see is cutting 4x8 sheets for counter tops, a little miter work here and there, and some occasional ripping of 2x2/4 etc. I'm sure it's uses will grow down the road, but I don't see myself building cabinets or the like anytime soon, if ever. I have my name on a 4511 coming into HD and when I was in there I saw (pun intended :D) they received the new R4516, which appears to have quite a few neat features for the price. For the average DIY is the 4511 overkill for most applications? Would the 4516 handle most tasks well, that most people would use it for? The way I look at it, for the money saved between the 2, I could pick up a couple more finish nail guns for doing all the crown and trim around my house.

All inputs and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Which saw is the 4516? For ripping 4x8 sheets of plywood, you want a big heavy saw; or even better is a circular saw to cut them apart into manageable sized pieces and then the table saw to square them up and get all the dimensions that should be the same the same.

[fastlane]

The 4516 just showed up on Ridgid's site, and just arrived at home depot. It looks like an upgraded 2410ls, minus the stand (which I would build). As for the plywood, I'm building a new bar area downstairs that leads to the theater room. The bar has a couple 45 degree angles. So I would be ripping 1/2" oak plywood at a 45 degree angle to cover the face of the bar. If I were just doing a straight cut I would use my circular, but I'm sure the 45 degree angle would turn out much better on the TS.

[hewood]

It really depends on you, your sitation, what you plan to use it for, etc. If you just plan to cut an occasional 2 x 4 for a weekend project once in a while, any saw capable of making the cut is fine, but if you plan to build fine furniture and/or do some precision woodworking, a good TS can be fairly important. The R4511 has several advantages over the smaller saws, and aside from portability and price, the smaller saws have next to no advantages. The R4511 has the upper hand in table surface area, distance in front of the blade, mass and stability, longer fence, quieter belt drive motor, motor torque, large handwheels, ease of adjustment, long term reliability, resale value, etc. It's no contest IMO, but YMMV.

[cpw]

The 4516 just showed up on Ridgid's site, and just arrived at home depot. It looks like an upgraded 2410ls, minus the stand (which I would build). As for the plywood, I'm building a new bar area downstairs that leads to the theater room. The bar has a couple 45 degree angles. So I would be ripping 1/2" oak plywood at a 45 degree angle to cover the face of the bar. If I were just doing a straight cut I would use my circular, but I'm sure the 45 degree angle would turn out much better on the TS.
The problem with the smaller saw is that they are more likely to tip if you are muscling a 50lb sheet of plywood on top of them. Either way, I would encourage you to use a circular saw to cut the sheet "almost" to size, and then clean that cut up on the TS.

[CWSmith]

Obviously, we all have our needs. While a saw like the 4511 may well be "overkill" for someone like you or me, it can certainly handle all of our needs and then some. On the other hand, if our needs are easily handled with a smaller, less featured unit, we'll be happy that we saved ourselves some $$ and were able to invest that savings into other tools that may fulfill our needs.

However, in so doing we may well find ourselves, somewhere in the future, wishing that we had that 4511. So goes any tool selection and our "normal" requirements vs the "occasional" need.

For example, there have been a couple of times when I really needed and wished that I had a pickup. But that's pretty rare, and for almost everything else, my van is more than enough.

Bottom line is that all of us get to make the choices we think are good. They may well NOT be the most logical and/or economical choices. IMO, "Meeting the requirements" doesn't dictate the limits of our expense choice. On the contrary, I think most of us look well beyond minimal requirements and set our sights on tools with a potential that sets new horizons for our skills. (Of course there's always a number of us that simply have to have the "the best", even though we'll never get close to using the tool's potential.)

CWS

[fastlane]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm one of those who likes to have the "best", even if I'll never use it. Hence the reason I have a 250 hp bass boat sitting in my garage lol. I guess if you break it down over the next 5 or 10 years, it's worth spending the extra 300 bucks to make sure I'm not going to outgrow it. I just kind of feel guilty having that nice of a TS sitting collecting dust most of the time.

[Woussko]

If you'll be ripping many sheets of plywood and especially on angles, you would do well to find someone with a good heavy cabinet type table saw and table extensions. Next you'll want to find a good 10 or 12 foot straight edge to help mark the 2 lines spaced about 1/8-1/4" apart for the saw blade to run through. You may well find it best to use a hand held circular saw and do a good marking job. In the hands of someone skilled and used to the saw you can get a very good accurate and straight line cut. With the plywood resting on 2 x 4s on the ground this job can work out pretty well.

Question: Can you use 4 foot by 4 foot sheets of plywood for your project? If yes, you should be able with some rigging to saw them on a stationary panel saw. The wood remains still and the blade and motor move in a pretty straight line. Marking the wood has to be done with care and a practice run on scrap plywood sure helps getting things setup. The issue is that you can't setup a full 4' x 8' sheet on a panel saw machine on angle. It just won't fit.

I think but am not sure that maybe FESTOOL has a special saw for your needs. You may want to call a dealer and ask. If yes, they may know where to take the plywood for sawing it.

[VASandy]

I think but am not sure that maybe FESTOOL has a special saw for your needs. You may want to call a dealer and ask. If yes, they may know where to take the plywood for sawing it.

Festool has a circular saw system that rides in it's own track. Keeps the cuts real nice and clean and straight. Dewalt recently came up with their own version of this kind of saw and track system. According to TheWoodWhisperer, there's very little difference in overall cut quality between the Festool and the Dewalt.

[cpw]

Festool has a circular saw system that rides in it's own track. Keeps the cuts real nice and clean and straight. Dewalt recently came up with their own version of this kind of saw and track system. According to TheWoodWhisperer, there's very little difference in overall cut quality between the Festool and the Dewalt.

You can also do a bootleg version like this, which is not nearly as nice as the Festool/Dewalt, but can be done for $15 for a sheet of plywood.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/cpw_ny/circsaw.jpg

The biggest disadvantage compared to the Festool, etc, is that you can drift away (and of course, it is only as straight as the board you use to make it), because nothing holds the saw to the track.

[fastlane]

If you'll be ripping many sheets of plywood and especially on angles, you would do well to find someone with a good heavy cabinet type table saw and table extensions.

The plywood dimensions will be 8 ft x 42" (height of the bar). I'll be mitering the 42" side. I mentioned angle cut earlier but I don't think that's the right description of what I was doing. The 42" side will be mitered at a 22.5 degree angle so it can butt up against the other piece of plywood also mitered at 22.5 degrees to make my 45 degree corner where the bar will continue into another smaller 45 degree corner. If I was just cutting larger pieces I wouldn't even bother with a table saw for now, I'd just use my circular saw at an angle and wing it, but I also will be mitering some trim at the same angle to cover the plywood corner joints hence the need for a TS.

[cpw]

The plywood dimensions will be 8 ft x 42" (height of the bar). I'll be mitering the 42" side. I mentioned angle cut earlier but I don't think that's the right description of what I was doing. The 42" side will be mitered at a 22.5 degree angle so it can butt up against the other piece of plywood also mitered at 22.5 degrees to make my 45 degree corner where the bar will continue into another smaller 45 degree corner. If I was just cutting larger pieces I wouldn't even bother with a table saw for now, I'd just use my circular saw at an angle and wing it, but I also will be mitering some trim at the same angle to cover the plywood corner joints hence the need for a TS.
If you want to cross cut something 8' wide, the table saw is the wrong tool.

[BuckB]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm one of those who likes to have the "best", even if I'll never use it. Hence the reason I have a 250 hp bass boat sitting in my garage lol. I guess if you break it down over the next 5 or 10 years, it's worth spending the extra 300 bucks to make sure I'm not going to outgrow it. I just kind of feel guilty having that nice of a TS sitting collecting dust most of the time.

My oldest daughter and I went auto shopping. She bought a Hugo. She also informed me that Lincoln Town cars don't hold their value, blah, blah ,blah.
The Hugo almost killed her when she had the audacity to go 70 mi., hr. It wore out sort of quickly. The Town Car got 91,000 and is still tight as a drum.
My Riobi $99.00 did cut wood. In fact no operator input was needed other than to push the wood. It would go where it wanted all by itself, sorta like the Hugo over about 68 mi., hr .

Buck

[CWSmith]

As CPW pointed out, the circular saw and a "factory edge" works great and costs next to nothing.

My table saw is a Ryobi BT3100-1. It's has an aluminum top and includes an aluminum sliding miter table. The motor is a "universal" type, which relies more on high RPM than HP. But I love this little saw for it's accuracy and ease, as well as it's versatility. But the saw hardly weighs more than a full plywood sheet, if that. One simply does NOT attempt to push large sheets through it!

So for me, I use my 18-volt cordless, 6-1/2 inch Ridgid circular saw and, a factory edge piece of ply that is eight foot long. Originally I marked the distance from the outer edge of the baseplate, to the inside edge of the blade. I've marked that dimension on my "factory edge" and keep that guide hanging in my garage.

Before any sheet goods go into the basement shop, they find themselves out in the garage, where my I can rip them down to size with my cordless circular saw.

For me, that setup is fast, accurate, and easily handled. Biggest challenge is to get that heavy piece of 3/4 ply or MDF up and onto my cutting table. But once there, all the cuts are made and everything else is pretty easy to handle.

CWS

[fastlane]

If you want to cross cut something 8' wide, the table saw is the wrong tool.

Agreed. However the sheet is 8' long and I'm cutting the 4' side. I will probably end up cutting it down to around 4x48" though after talking with you guys. It will have trim over the seams so no big deal.

That being said, has anyone else had the opportunity to use a 4516? Unless I'm missing something, it looks to be a nice step up from the 2410 (riving knife and all) and only 300 bucks to boot. Decisions decisions. :speechless:

[FINER9998]

fastlane...good idea about allocating resources effectively, but the 4516 is a joke. it looks like an amped up version of the entry level ryobi 10"portable table saw. if you want a good table saw that will do just about anything and you don't want to break the bank, search out a ridgid 3650 or 3660 10" contractor saw. there is nothing the 4511 can do that the 3650/60 can't. the major difference between them is the granite top of the 4516 while the 3650/60 is cast iron. the 3650/60 is being clearanced at HD for $399, an excellent price which also happens to be less than the 2410, which is a great portable table saw. you won't be sorry.

[fastlane]

fastlane...good idea about allocating resources effectively, but the 4516 is a joke. it looks like an amped up version of the entry level ryobi 10"portable table saw. if you want a good table saw that will do just about anything and you don't want to break the bank, search out a ridgid 3650 or 3660 10" contractor saw. there is nothing the 4511 can do that the 3650/60 can't. the major difference between them is the granite top of the 4516 while the 3650/60 is cast iron. the 3650/60 is being clearanced at HD for $399, an excellent price which also happens to be less than the 2410, which is a great portable table saw. you won't be sorry.

Thank you. I originally was after the 3660 but just missed them. There are none in my state of MT or WA (at least within reasonable driving distance). I initially picked up the 2410, but after pulling it out of the box and inspecting it for 5 minutes, back to HD it went. If the 4516 is a huge step down, I'll stick with the 4511. Pretty sad my TS will have a nicer top than my kitchen. :)

[alkemyst]

The TS3660 is a hell of a saw and nearly half the cost of the R4511.

Missed your last comment about none in your area...make sure they check for a TS3650 too...also it wouldn't hurt to check yourself if they are close by.

[BuckB]

fastlane...good idea about allocating resources effectively, but the 4516 is a joke. it looks like an amped up version of the entry level ryobi 10"portable table saw. if you want a good table saw that will do just about anything and you don't want to break the bank, search out a ridgid 3650 or 3660 10" contractor saw. there is nothing the 4511 can do that the 3650/60 can't. the major difference between them is the granite top of the 4516 while the 3650/60 is cast iron. the 3650/60 is being clearanced at HD for $399, an excellent price which also happens to be less than the 2410, which is a great portable table saw. you won't be sorry.

Not just the granite top my friend. The rails are SOLID. Much more so than the aluminum. The rails and fence is heavy steel but I can move the fence with my little finger with no effort. Not saying the 3650-60 isn't a good saw, but the difference between them and the 4511 is more than one might think.

Buck

[wrench spinner]

Buy the BEST THAT YOU CAN AFFORD, a good tool will last you quite a while and make your hobby that much more enjoyable!

[FINER9998]

fastlane...when you say there are no 3650/60s in your state, are you relying on the HD inventory system to indicate that? if you are, i would strongly advise your going to every HD around you and looking for yourself, especially in the overheads in and around the tool corral. i have gotten most of my tools that way, even when the "system" said there were none in the store. hell, when i bought my washer and dryer, the associate said they were out of stock until i suggested he look in the overhead directly above his head, and there they were. for a savings of $300, it could be a fun and financially rewarding excursion.

[fastlane]

fastlane...when you say there are no 3650/60s in your state, are you relying on the HD inventory system to indicate that? if you are, i would strongly advise your going to every HD around you and looking for yourself, especially in the overheads in and around the tool corral. i have gotten most of my tools that way, even when the "system" said there were none in the store. hell, when i bought my washer and dryer, the associate said they were out of stock until i suggested he look in the overhead directly above his head, and there they were. for a savings of $300, it could be a fun and financially rewarding excursion.

Thanks for the advice. I did manually check myself in three around my area (within 250 miles) and didn't find any. I'll have to take the department persons word that there aren't any at the rest of the stores I called. For what it would cost me in time and fuel it's not worth it going any further than I have. You guys have pretty much made up my mind to stick with my 4511 order. Thanks for all the input and suggestions. :thumbup2: