Shellac over oil-based stain?

[MarkSJohnson]

I'm really embarrassed to even be asking this, but I've searched here, at Sawmill Creek and even at shellac.net, and I can't find a specific answer to this:

Can shellac be used over an oil-based stain (Minwax)?

I have read that shellac "can be used over almost anything", but Zinsser's site (or the can) does NOT say it's OK over previously oil-stained wood, and I just want to be sure so I don't ruin a project! All the talk seems to be as a sealer or over bare wood.

Oh... the second reason of embarrasment is that the project is actually a spice rack.... the quintessential beginner's project! :o :o :o

Thank you in advance for any help!

[BadgerDave]

I'm no expert but I can't see any reason why you couldn't use it. I've never used it myself but I always thought it was used instead of stain. It's use may change the color of the stain you've already put down.

[MarkSJohnson]

Thank you for your reply!

That's actually what I'm hoping for. I want to "warm up" the stain color a bit to better match all the wood in the kitchen so am hoping to use an amber shellac.

I'm using a test board, but because I can't find anything definitive for an answer, I'm a bit paranoid that a mis-match in products will cause a problem down the road! :confused:

[BadgerDave]

To avoid disappointment, make sure that you prepare your test board in the same manner that you've prepared the spice rack, i.e. go through the same sanding steps that you did with the project.

Oh, and welcome to the group.

[Pipestone Kid]

Years ago, shellac was always used as a sealer over stain. It was quick drying, easy sanding and took a coat of varnish very well.

[MarkSJohnson]

Thanks guys... both for the advice and the welcome.

I'm going to "go for it". I was just suprised that no matter where I looked, I wasn't finding anything specific in terms of what you can or cannot cover, and it made me a bit unsure!

Off to put together my new 3660 now! :)

[BadgerDave]

FWIW, PK is the hands down resident expert when it comes to "years ago". :D Oh yeah, and don't believe anything he says if it involves fishing! :D :D

[Bob D.]

Thanks guys... both for the advice and the welcome.

I'm going to "go for it". I was just suprised that no matter where I looked, I wasn't finding anything specific in terms of what you can or cannot cover, and it made me a bit unsure!

Off to put together my new 3660 now! :)


Did you search the RIDGID WWing Forums?

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29345&postcount=1

Shellac is unmatched in its adhesion to just about any material that needs finishing or painting. Shellac will adhere firmly to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as glossy paint, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics.

Shellac has wide compatibility. Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint.

Shellac forms a continuous film that is impermeable to the most hard-to-contain stains. It seals off bleeding knots and sappy streaks in new wood that are the bane of painters. With shellac, there's no popping through a finish coat of paint to spoil the job. It works equally well on stains of all kinds - stains from water leaks, grease marks, marking pens, graffiti, crayon, smoke and soot from fires. Not only does it seal off fire damage so the premises can be painted, but it also seals off the smell of smoke as well.

Shellac is non-toxic and so has been FDA-approved for use to coat candy, pharmaceuticals and fruit. Because it is non-toxic, it is absolutely safe to use on children's toys and furniture.

A shellac finish is easy to maintain. Worn spots, scratches or marred areas can be touched up easily by shellac liquid being brushed on or sprayed from a handy aerosol can. The new shellac will blend in well with the old.

[MarkSJohnson]

Did you search the RIDGID WWing Forums?

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29345&postcount=1
Shellac is unmatched in its adhesion to just about any material that needs finishing or painting. Shellac will adhere firmly to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as glossy paint, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics.

Shellac has wide compatibility. Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint.


Yes, I did.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I still don't see where the quoted above says specifically that it can be used over an oil-based stain. I'm not trying to be difficult, but the information above, which I had seen in several places in my searches, says exactly what I mentioned above: It seems likely that shellac can be used over oil-based stain, because it seems as though it can be used over most anything. But it still doesn't specifically say oil-based stain, which was my delimna and why I posted.

We all know that forum postings can be easily misconstrued as to intent; please understand that I'm not trying to be argumentative.

[Bob D.]

I don't take your comments as argumentative. To me reading the text it says I should be able to use it but as you point out the specific words are not there. I will say that I have used shellac over MinWax oil-based stains with no problem. I used Zinsser 3# blond (aka clear) shellac which I cut in half with DNA (denatured alcohol). I used this over MinWax Early American (#230) with no problems. I wait a minimum of 10 hours before applying the shellac after staining.

I used 220 paper on the stained surface to knock it down a bit, then use micro-fiber dust cloths as tack cloth. they work just as well as tack cloth or the Norton micro-fiber tack cloth that are overpriced. I bought a pack of 25 at BJs for less than $10. One micro-fiber tack cloth from Norton was over $5. When they fill with dust I take them outside and shake the big stuff out, then run them through with a load of work jeans and they come out good as new. You need to keep turning to a fresh surface just as you would with a conventional tack cloth. Give them a try, I think you will like them.

[ggirimon]

I'm not a finisher, but i've used DE-WAXED shellac (mixed from flakes) as a barrier coat between dissimilar coatings. (Oil stain-De-Waxed Shellac- Waterborne poly.)

I ran into problems when I applied the shellac to stains that were still too ripe and then I got lifting of the stain.

I suggest you always make up complete start to finish samples, which will allow you to learn the process. If you need to make any adjustments, you can do it on the samples. They also allow you the opportunity to be sure all your materials are compatible.

[MarkSJohnson]

Excellent! Thank you, Bob! :)

I put my first coat of shellac on it today, but never got back there to sand and give a second coat. When I do, I'll use up the last of my tack clothes and follow your suggestions from now on! :)

[MarkSJohnson]

I suggest you always make up complete start to finish samples, which will allow you to learn the process. If you need to make any adjustments, you can do it on the samples. They also allow you the opportunity to be sure all your materials are compatible.

Yes, thank you! Unfortunately, I started doing that right after I stained this project...seriously! I immediately sanded a cutoff from the same wood to the same grit, and stained it the same so I could try ways of warming it up a bit in color.

From now on, I'll always have a test piece precede all the steps! :)

[Pipestone Kid]

FWIW, PK is the hands down resident expert when it comes to "years ago". :D Oh yeah, and don't believe anything he says if it involves fishing! :D :D

When it comes to fishing, hire Badger Dave as a guide. He knows how to catch the big ones!!:jumping:

[Bob D.]

From now on, I'll always have a test piece precede all the steps!


I write down some short notes of the steps I used on the back of the test piece, that way they don't get lost. When testing multiple stains on a piece of wood I include the stain manufacturers name, etc. for future reference. I know that 6 months or a year from now I am not likely to remember those details.

[BadgerDave]

When it comes to fishing, hire Badger Dave as a guide. He knows how to catch the big ones!!:jumping:


Attaboy PK, I knew you wouldn't let me down.:killingme::killingme::bow-down::bow-down:

[ggirimon]

I write down some short notes of the steps I used on the back of the test piece, that way they don't get lost. When testing multiple stains on a piece of wood I include the stain manufacturers name, etc. for future reference. I know that 6 months or a year from now I am not likely to remember those details.

Yes, thanks for mentioning that. I always right down on the back what I did. You can remember a week from now but 6 months from now is a different story.

[Andy_M]

Bob D has already mentioned that shellac works fine over Minwax, and I also have that experience.

My only comment to add is, with Minwax, I always let oil based stain dry for a day, then wipe it down with terry cloth moistened lightly with paint thinner, then let it dry for another couple days before applying top coat. The paint thinner wipe gets off any little globs of oil that have leeched out to the surface from the pores of the wood.

In my experience, the biggest problem you're likely to have topcoating oil stains comes from the oil not being cured enough... it actually continues to cure for quite a while.

Good luck!

Andy

[MarkSJohnson]

Thanks for the tips, Andy!

I really appreciate it!