Thinking of going Tankless

[PhilC]

My 40 gal tank, natural gas water heater is getting old (about 15 yrs.) and I'm thinking about going for a tankless model. The big turn-offs have been the cost of the unit and some bids I've gotten for installation.

It seems to be running from $2500 up to $4000, depending on who you talk to. I don't begrudge someone making a living, but it seems to me they're pricing themselves pretty high for a days work.

I'm not rich and going from $800-900 to replace the tank type, up to this figure is not something I wish to do. So, I'm thinking I'll try it myself and if I mess up, I'll call someone in.

My 3/4" water lines are right below where I want to put it and I'll try my hand at sweating in the fittings or maybe try SharkBite or Pex?

I'll probably have to call in the gas company to be sure my gas line is sized properly and I can get them to extend it.

I've found the unit I'm interested in the Rheem RTG-53 DVN online for $589. They also sell the horizontal vent kit for $89., but I'll need to extend it a bit with some straight duct.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes. :wave2:

(http://www.homeperfect.com/Rheem-Tankless-Waterheaters/Rheem-RTG-53PVN-Natural-Gas-Indoor-Tankless-Water-Heater/invt/rhertg53pvn)

[Chemeng]

What is the reason you want to go tankless?

[SewerRatz]

You need to run all of the vent in Cat III vent. Also the Rheem 53DVN might be a bit undersized for your needs. I would hire a pro for this so this way you get a properly sized heater, properly installed gas line and defiantly a properly installed vent.

Gas lines if not done properly can leak, and if you use anything but Cat III rated vent piping you will have issues with the vent rotting away, condensation causing issues, and the possibility of carbine monoxide entering your building.

[PhilC]

What is the reason you want to go tankless?

It seems a better way then keeping the water continuously hot, like trying to be green! :D


I think it would work out because we don't use hot water at multiple sources at the same time. If someone is showering, we hold off on the washer, etc.

If I'm able to do it myself for, let's say, under $1000. and it lasts as long as my tank type did, there may be some pay-back. But spending $2500+, I don't think so.

[PhilC]

You need to run all of the vent in Cat III vent. Also the Rheem 53DVN might be a bit undersized for your needs. I would hire a pro for this so this way you get a properly sized heater, properly installed gas line and defiantly a properly installed vent.

Gas lines if not done properly can leak, and if you use anything but Cat III rated vent piping you will have issues with the vent rotting away, condensation causing issues, and the possibility of carbine monoxide entering your building.

Thanks for the reply and yes I realize that. I intend to give the vent some downhill pitch to take care of condensation and I will have the Gas Co. extend the pipe.

[SewerRatz]

Thanks for the reply and yes I realize that. I intend to give the vent some downhill pitch to take care of condensation and I will have the Gas Co. extend the pipe.
I just do not want to see anyone get hurt.

[plumberscrack]

Call the guy back will will do it for $2500. Make sure it's an Energy Star approved heater and you will be eligible for a 30% Federal Tax Credit (up to $1500) if this is your primary residence.

Now it has only cost you $1750 and all you did is write the check.

[breid1903]

crack how do you do the math? you lost me. breid.........:party-on:

[Redwood]

crack how do you do the math? you lost me. breid.........:party-on:

Yea...
I came up with a figure of $1750

[Devine Plumbing]

Phil,
You are seriously going to end up blowing yourself and your family up. Do yourself a favor and stick to driving. Let a professional take care of this one.

[PhilC]

OK, here's the deal...I spoke to a plumber (Licensed and also lic Electricians) yesterday and he's willing to work on the installation for an hourly fee, which I think is very reasonable.

I ordered the tankless heater and direct vent kit online yesterday as well as a service valve set.

I'll hang the heater on the wall and run the horizontal vent kit and get the work site ready for him to move the gas where I need it, hook up the water and run me a 120v outlet.

As part of the new plumbing work he'll disconnect the old tank type water heater and I'll take care of the disposal.

I'm hoping this will accomplish a budget friendly install. :happydance:

Stay tuned for further updates.

[toolaholic]

Thanks for the reply and yes I realize that. I intend to give the vent some downhill pitch to take care of condensation and I will have the Gas Co. extend the pipe.

The Gas Co. extend the pipe? I believe that's a private plumber's work?

[PhilC]

The Gas Co. extend the pipe? I believe that's a private plumber's work?

Yes, you're right, I was wrong.

[darius]

I replaced my entire HVAC system this Summer and I was going to have a tankless installed. The money was set aside, and model decisions have been made. I was really looking forward to, especially it since before coming to Canada that was the only water heating system I knew and I liked it. It's been in use in Europe for at least 50 years now.

Well, I decided not go for tankless to based on two reasons:

- no bang for the buck. It will use less gas but (the model I wanted, 2 major simultaneous uses) it would pay itself just about when it would be the time to replace the heater. After all we're talking about 85% efficiency for water heater tanks, against 95% (at best) for tankless. That's 10% difference. On a $20 to $40 cost of heating water for an average 4 person family it translates into $24 to $48 savings a year. A conventional gas water heater costs between $800 and $1500 (installed), a tankless will run between $2000 and $5000 installed. Tankles suddenly don't seem like a bargain.

- the tankless work best as point of use devices, and that's how they are mainly used in Europe. Based on info from the actual HVAC contractors (I had quotes from 4) tankless ain't so good for house applications. All had them and all regret having installed them. Long story short, between no hot water resorvoir and longish pipe runs the main problem the contractors reported were spikes of cold water in daily applications when the water runs hot (eventually) is turned off for a couple minutes (as when you brush your teeth) and then open the tap again.

In Europe you will usually have a couple of them tankles heaters, even in apartments. They are small, fit in kitchen/bathroom cabinets and the hot water is truly instant.

I have no reason to not believe the contractors who would have only made more on the tankless installation than they make on the conventional water heaters.

my $0.02 (adjusted for inflation)

[theoak]

You may find this (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20846) interesting ...

[PhilC]

You may find this (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20846) interesting ...

Thanks, a lot of good info in there.

Right now I'm hoping that by buying the unit and venting at discount and doing some of the install myself, with a plumber's services only as needed, I can accomplish this install for about the same cost as a tank type heater.

It will actually be cheaper because the unit I bought qualifies for the 30% tax credit.

If you have to pay $2500+, I don't see any payback.

[Dairylander]

I'm hoping that by buying the unit and venting at discount and doing some of the install myself
I've read on bumper stickers that truckers make good lovers, but do truckers make good plumbers?

[PhilC]

I've read on bumper stickers that truckers make good lovers, but do truckers make good plumbers?

Don't be silly, I said I'm using a plumber.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r82/ASmoof/Cheeseheads-20080413090831.jpg

[Dairylander]

Which part are you going to do?
Water, gas, electrical, vent?

[PhilC]

The vent and maybe the water.

[Dairylander]

Here in my state homeowners can do their own electrical, is it the same in Jersey?

(And let's not talk about the Packers, it's a sensitive subject this week.)

[PhilC]

I believe you can work on your own property. I try to avoid getting a permit, if possible. The electric panel board is right close by and there is a plug for an electric clothes dryer. Maybe I'll have him run me another gas line and get a gas dryer too! :rolleyes:

I just did two small decks ( 8' X 10'), front and back, over top of deteriorating concrete steps. Since they were a replacement for the steps, the BI said I didn't need a permit.

OK, so now with my water heater project going on inside the house, do you think I'm gonna get a permit for it? :nono:

[toolaholic]

Phil ,read down 3 threads . You'll get over it!

[PhilC]

Finished the install yesterday.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r82/ASmoof/tankless.jpg

Came in about the same money that a tank type would have been (about $1000), so far we're happy with the results.

Just to show that you can do it for well under the $2500+ some plumbers were quoting me.

[SewerRatz]

Is that Category III vent pipe? It does not look right to me. Also I do not see a drip leg on the gas piping but it might be out of the picture. I like to put the drip leg right at the heater.

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8851&stc=1&d=1258032523
Finished the install yesterday.



Came in about the same money that a tank type would have been (about $1000), so far we're happy with the results.

Just to show that you can do it for well under the $2500+ some plumbers were quoting me.

[SewerRatz]

I am happy to see you used black pipe for the gas and not galvanized, also happy to see the isolation valves installed.

One other note, but this depends on your local codes. Did you use the pressure relief valve that came with the isolation valves? Or did you install a T&P valve? Here in Illinois it is required to install a T&P valve.

[PLUMBER RICK]

ron, out here we can use either black or gal. and drip legs are not required as our gas is dry.

rick.

[PhilC]

Is that Category III vent pipe? It does not look right to me. Also I do not see a drip leg on the gas piping but it might be out of the picture. I like to put the drip leg right at the heater.




You're very observant, matter of fact the plumber came back this morning to install the drip leg, he didn't have one with him yesterday.

The vent is Tankless Water Heater 3”/ 5” Concentric Direct Vent, made by Metal-Fab Inc. http://www.mtlfab.com/media/L2555.pdf

I needed to order another 24" section to make the wall and it was shipped right from Rheem. They caution you not to try to mix vent pipe from different manufacturers.

I did use the pressure relief valve that came with the isolation valves.

[SewerRatz]

Ah I never seen the Metal-Fab pipe, thats why I didn't recognize it. I would check with your local codes about using only a pressure relief valve. Other than that Looks good, glad it all went well for you.

You're very observant, matter of fact the plumber came back this morning to install the drip leg, he didn't have one with him yesterday.

The vent is Tankless Water Heater 3”/ 5” Concentric Direct Vent, made by Metal-Fab Inc. http://www.mtlfab.com/media/L2555.pdf

I needed to order another 24" section to make the wall and it was shipped right from Rheem. They caution you not to try to mix vent pipe from different manufacturers.

I did use the pressure relief valve that came with the isolation valves.