Made in America

[Julius]

Jake: Several months ago I purchased a RIDGID jointer and RIDGID thickness planer. I am very please with the quality and performance of both tools; great value for the money.

I thought I knew the history of Craftsman / Emerson / Ridgid and the development of RIDGID TOOLS for Home Depot, and made the assumption that these products were made in America. I was disappointed to find the "Made in Taiwan" model No./serial No. plate on the back of my jointer. Is it only the castings that are made in Taiwan? What about the Emerson motor?

I have since done a little homework, and was very disappointed to discover my Delta drill press was made in China, JET tools are made in Taiwan, even my trusted Lee Valley Tools router bits are made in Tiawan. Have we stopped producing our own products and become importers? Are there any (mid-range/contracter) power tools produced in North America?

[JSchnarre]

First off let me list what tools that we make in the US.

All three of our table saws
TS2424
TS2412
TS2400
RS1000 Radial saw
MS1050 Miter saw
SS1650 Scoll saw
EB4424 Sander
All RIDGID Vacs
Our two air filtration systems are made in Canada along with our dust collection network.

Most of the rest of the tools are made in the Taiwan with the exception of the Drill Press, which is made in China.

A couple of reasons for production of tools overseas: On the tools with Cast iron like the jointer and the Drill press (which are lower volume tools that our table saws), cast iron in the U.S. in low volumes is prohibitively expensive. A lot more pipe wrenches are sold than bandsaws.

Market pressure is the single biggest reason for making tools oversees. If we could demand $30 more for a $250 tool for USA made we would but all things being equal most customers will save the $30 and buy an overseas tool. Also pressure from direct importers such as Jet and Grizzly really make it necessary to source tools from Taiwan. Import does not necessarily mean lower quality. Jet is consistently noted for the quality of their tools and every one of their tools are imports.

We still have the largest single power tool factory in the world in Paris, Tenn. where our table saws and the like are made. The vacs are made in Michigan.

I'd like to hear your input on where tools are made and how much you feel the fact a tool is made in the US is of value to you.

Jake

[hamhand]

I have shopped price for tools over $50 and as you say, foreign-made usually win. However, I am rethinking that as I have a Delta planer (12") that I have been unable to get a part for since 7/5/2000! I thought that a "good" name would assure me of service when I needed it-not so.I believe I will go for USA tools in the future and call the price difference a "service charge". It seems silly to have a tool down for three months for lack of a $7.00 part.

[BB]

There are still a lot of true professionals in the woodworking industry that do care where the tool is manufactured. I always try to buy American if possible. I also buy quality tools manufactured by German, Swiss and Japanese companies. I have never seen or used a quality tool that was manufactured in China, Tiawan, Indonesia, Korea or Mexico because in my opinion they do not exist. I do not believe the argument that Jack is trying to make concerning the cast iron products. You only have to look closely at the rough casting of these tools to realize the difference is not in the cost of the cast iron but in the quality of the finished product. Also the foreign steel used by these manufacturers does not compare to the quality of US or other steel. I recently purchased a Powermatic 66 10" table saw. This saw has long been considered as "The best saw on the market" Before I purchased this saw I was concerned that it was no longer being manufactured In the USA. Powermatic was recently purchased by the mega conglomerate (WMH)that owns Jet tools which are mostly manufactured in Taiwan. I was assured by the customer service dept. of Powermatic that the saw was still proudly built 100% in the USA. When I received my new saw and opened up the cardboard box my disappointment soon turned to anger when I realized that all of the Powermatic saw accessories that where included had been manufactured in Taiwan including the safety gaurd, table inserts, mitre gauge, hand wheels, locking knobs and the cast iron extention wings. (the main table was USA but the extention wings are Taiwan. There is a big difference in the quality of the steel and the mounting holes did not line up) I contacted Powermatic to voice my complaint and was told that those parts are accessories and not part of the main saw so that they did not have to be manufactured or assembled in the USA and the saw could be considered as 100% USA. I would like to see them try to sell the saw with no safety gaurd if it is considered an accessory and not part of the saw. I have filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission as if it will do any good. I have had no problems with saw but I cannot help but feel deceived by Powermatic. Bottom Line - buyer beware.

[danomal]

I did a lot of home work before I spent the money for my Ridgid power tools. I could'nt be happyer with the quility. A lot of people out there feel that just because it says made in the USA it's the best. It's just not true. And a company can say that a product is BUILT in the USA and have all oversea's parts. Thay take the parts and build the finished item. The bottom line is the companys Quality Assurance dept. If you say me Made in the USA more times then not means substandered. Sorry to say this countery has lost the edge it once had. Many of Ridgids tools made be made overseas, But waht sets them apart is Ridgids Quality Assurance. I cant see spending more money for a power tools when I know I can get top quality for less from Ridgid.
Regards Daniel Maloney

[ghodgin]

Generally, I don't care about where my tools are made because I don't buy them from a country. When I bought my Rigid table saw at HD I was buying from HD and Ridgid. If something goes wrong, I know who to contact and whose reputation is on the line. It's the quality and price that matter to me.

[myTechieGuy.Com]

Bravo. I couldn't have said it any better.

We are one of the biggest economy in the world and I think we need to help this other countries indirectly by bringing them up and out of economic jeopardy by. What was that saying "Don't give a man fish, show him to catch it"

The more tools Taiwan makes and sells hopefully the better the tools will become.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ghodgin:
Generally, I don't care about where my tools are made because I don't buy them from a country. When I bought my Rigid table saw at HD I was buying from HD and Ridgid. If something goes wrong, I know who to contact and whose reputation is on the line. It's the quality and price that matter to me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Maxdod]

It shouldn't matter where the tool is made. If a tool is a quality tool and has good customer support I will buy from them. In the '80s the Japanese car makers forced their American counterparts to improve their products. Just being an American company is not enough, you've got to take care of your customers.

[Bubba Blue]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ghodgin:
We are one of the biggest economy in the world and I think we need to help this other countries indirectly by bringing them up and out of economic jeopardy by. What was that saying "Don't give a man fish, show him to catch it"

The more tools Taiwan makes and sells hopefully the better the tools will become.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maxdod:
It shouldn't matter where the tool is made. If a tool is a quality tool and has good customer support I will buy from them. In the '80s the Japanese car makers forced their American counterparts to improve their products. Just being an American company is not enough, you've got to take care of your customers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All things being equal, I don't think a tool's country of origin is as important as the quality and service behind the tools.

Buying American just because it's American merely hurts us, buy giving our manufacturer's a crutch when they should be competent enough to make a quality tool and offer services to their customers as good as, or better than the competition.

If we give them this "crutch" we could see the same thing happen to our U.S. tool manufacturers that happened to our auto manufacturers in the 70's and 80's which I'd rather not see repeated.

Bubba

[Mike C.]

I suppose that I should no longer be shocked to hear my fellow Americans tout the virtues of tools made in Taiwan or China, or say they don't care where their tools are made. I personally will vote with my dollars to buy American wherever possible. As a person who makes their living in manufacturing - based in the US, I'll continue to support those like me.

One thing to consider next time you buy that cheaper tool made somewhere else - we can't all make a living in this country by doing each others laundry. The strength of this country has been our ability to manufacture the best tools, equipment, and automobiles in the world.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Mike, the United States still does build some of the best tools in the world. Question is, can you pay for them?

Northfield is a superb quality manufacturer of woodworking tools, in Minnesota. There band saws, to take one example, start at $6,000 list (motor not included).

Dave

[Hergy]

Basic laws of supply and demand set the price. The assumption that a tool or (fill in the blank) will be inherently better because it's made in the USA holds no water.
How long do you think a company would be in business if their saw cost $100 or so more than a competitors with no better quality or features than an import?

Don't get me wrong in thinking that I am anti USA. (My pension check comes from a very large and well known manufacturer). It hurt to see jobs lost to overseas, Mexico etc. because we could not be competitive!Sorry to say, but that's capitalism at work. In this country the work goes to the low bidder.

By the way, better check your underwear and shoes, shirt etc. I'd be willing to bet they are not made in USA. smile.gif

[Pepaw of VA]

I'll give another input. I believe we should all do our part and buy American made goods when we can, But just because a product is "Made in America" does not alway mean it the best quality. Quality in most product comes down to one thing, The quality control of the company. And like most people these days I want the most for my money. I shop around before I buy check out the company look at the product you can tell alot about the companys quality control that way. And I hope that people are not fooles in to thinking that if a product says "Built in the USA" wont have any overseas parts. For me I'll buy American Made goods unless I can get better quality ,better warrenty and better price. I love this country I proudly serviced in the US Navy for 20 years and if recalled I would gladly go again. This is with out a dought the greatest country in the would. How ever that does not mean that because a product is American Made that it is that best. Everyone will have to make the choise for them selfs.

[SGF]

I'll probably get flamed for this. I live in Canada and, even though I hold both Canadian and US citizenship, things like illegal import duties imposed on products imported to the US from Canada (softwood is just the latest example), the US foreign policy and my experiences dealing with US government agencies, I generally avoid purchasing any product that is actually manufactured in the US. I travel to Europe quite a bit in the course of my employment and you find a lot of the same sort of sentiment there, as well.

The US does not have a monopoly on quality. In fact, just as often as not, a US-made product is inferior in quality and design to foreign products. I find that too many American companies use "Made In The USA" as a marketing tool and a sign of patriotism rather than as a sign of quality.

I will only purchase American made products if, and only if, I cannot find an equivelant product of equivalent or better quality that is manufactured outside of the US. Needless to say, I don't own too many US-made products.

Steve
flamemehere@hotmail.com

[Jeff O'Dell]

I'm not overly concerned about where a product is manufactured. What I look and pay for is quality and the most bang for my buck.

Foreign goods do not take jobs from Americans. Many Americans make their living importing, transporting, selling and servicing imported goods. Many more make a living in the foreign contry managing ghe business that makes the imported goods.

We Americans love to export our goods. Approximately 70% of my company's business is export. Our main competitor is a foreign company, we compete based on quality, features and price - not on country of origin.

I served this great nation for 16 years in the Air Force (and will also gladly do so again) and managed a branch office of a US company in Taiwan.

I still by the best product I can afford, regardless of its origin.

[George]

Man I hate seeing conversations like this at places like this. It makes me want to jump onto a big political soapbox and piss a lot of people off and I don't want to do that because there are other forums on the web to debate such issues.

But I'll put my 2cents in. God (and so does everyone I work with) knows that I'm patriotic. But I don't give rats rear end where something is made if it is made better and at a better value than other similar products. I want quality, value and a company that stands behind its products. Like Ridgid!!!
:)

[BoatWood]

Hello everyone, I'm a proud new owner of a TS2424 and a newbe to both Rigid and this board. Like many others I purchased the TS because (1)I felt it had high quality, and(2)it is built in the US. This product happened to offer good value also.

All countries have "slock" manufactures and I'm willing to watch them fail. I shop for quality in every purchase I make, but where possible I bias purchases of quality products to those built here.

In answer to Jake's question, I'm willing to spend more to get quality and much more when it's made here.

[woodawg]

Hey Techie : tell the 31000 people at Ford that just got canned because thier jobs went to Mexico. "Made in USA", is made by Americans. tongue.gif

[tm311]

I would pay 10% more to buy the tool if i knew it was 100% made USA. And to say you don't care where a tool is made is to say you don't care about the future of this country and the future job hunting of your children. One other thing to look at when you must buy a product from overseas buy one that from a country that contributed to the 9/11 fund. Not a single japanese car manufacurer did...when my honda lease is up it wil be the last car i buy from asia.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Fact check?

These are excerpted quotes from Honda USA's web site:

"have raised $448,534 from thousands of Honda associates"
"American Honda Motor Co., Inc., Honda of America Mfg., Inc." "have contributed a total of $1,100,534"
"These combined efforts total $1,549,068."

Story is available via link from the American Honda web site, http://www.honda.com .

From the Toyota web site, November 13, 2001: "Toyota Announces Additional Donations to Disaster Relief Efforts, Raising Total to $1.93 Million"

That's an awful lot of money from companies that have made "no" contribution.

Dave
No association

[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: Dave Arbuckle ]

[tm311]

Last i checked no money came into thi8s country from overseas from either honda or toyota. I will check into it further and see if i am mistaken. Your post says honda of america....do you know for a fact that money came in from the japanese? And if so do you consider a few million dollars from a compnay that earn 100's of billions of dollars from this country something that would make me proud to drive a japanese import? We give more than that to japan in a week . Plus keep in mind that money coming from honda america would be mostly individual contributions from individuals..not direct corporate support. My point was that i personaly feel that japan was noticably and wrongly absent in support of this country .

[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: tm311 ]

[Dave Arbuckle]

Tm, I suggest taking a look at this link. You have some misconceptions showing, particularly regarding multi-national corporations and how they do business. I think this might help you out, please be sure to look at the part titled "comments". smile.gif
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blautomakers.htm

Dave

[tm311]

I realize that there was a fake email, and i did get that fowarded to me and i also read that it was a fake.....and i am also not an idiot when it comes to the global market. My point again was that i as a comsumer was offended to find that lack of support in particular that Japan showed. we as americans spend pour trillions of dollars into the asian market because people have the attitude "who cares wheres it made i just want it!!!!" I don't have that attitude....whenever possible i try to choose american. I recently bought a delta contractor saw and later found that it was a taiwanese product(36-650) lucky it was backorderd because i found out that it was not made in america so i cancelled the order and reordered the delta american made version. Obviously in this global economy its impossible to to know where things are made or who is getting rich from my money....i'm just saying that given the choice i will take an american made product when possible.; I sugest because this is a tool forum that you make your final point and we call it done...fair?

[Dave Arbuckle]

"I sugest because this is a tool forum that you make your final point and we call it done"

My final point has already been made. smile.gif

Dave

[JSchnarre]

Wow this thread grew quickly!

OK guys time to drop the philisophical discussions (and thats just what this is). Lets get back to talking tools.

Jake

[ViperGTSCU]

Jake,
I have the TS2424, and just got the BS1400. I was on the message board asking how do I get the oil that had dried on the cast iron table. On my TS2424 the oil was still wet and the table was clean. On my BS1400 that you say is made in Taiwan the oil was dried and was not too clean. And after 2 weeks of owning it the Ridgid logo on the top cover is starting to peal off on all sides. The letters is still on but I think that afer about 2 or so more weeks they will come off. Don't get me wrong so far I am glad I spent the extra money. It does however make my stomach turn when things like that happen. I would feel better if all of your tools were completely made in the USA. I do think that nomatter how high Ridgids standards are overseas work force all ways try to save money any way they can. That is how they keep making sales the prices are low. Now at $500 for the BS1400 I would have rather paid $30 more for even a little better work. Ridgids service has been excellent in all of my experience and that makes a big difference in my book. Do try to get all of your tools made in USA.

[Terry in FL]

Another perspective - I too buy American made products whenever I can, but only if the features and quality are as good or better than what I can buy from a foreign manufacturer. I don't owe anyone making inferior products a job. That's part of what's wrong with this country... When companies (and their employees) make high quality products with the features consumers want, they can't manufacture it fast enough to satisfy demand. That's job security. That's why I bought a Ridgid TS2424. I looked at the features, quality and price and decided Ridgid made what I needed with good quality at a price I was willing to pay. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong..

[vac man]

hi jake
are you sure about the all the ridgid vacs being made in the us, i beleive my ridgid 6 gallon unit is made in canda?

[JSchnarre]

Yes the 6 & 8 gallons are made in Canada. The thread is pretty old and I made that post before the 6 & 8 gallons were available.

Jake

[garyn1]

I myself will only buy American made products anymore if I can find them. I am now looking for an American made thickness planer. I have started replacing everything I have that is not American made. If we do not start buying all American made products then what jobs will be here in America for our children and grand children. Are they going to have to live out of shacks and how will they feed themselves. The way things are going the foreign countries are taking over America. BUY AMERICAN.

[papadan]

Garyn, you will be buying old iron if you only want American made, there isn't any left being built now.

[CWSmith]

Garyn1,

I think you are misunderstanding the problem... it is NOT that foreign companies are taking over America, it is American companies (and our government) that is moving our jobs to foreign lands, specifically China!

The time for us to make up our minds and vote with our wallets has long passed. Read the very first few posts on this year 2000 originating thread.

Funny the subject should pop up as I just read a business news story about an LED lighting firm looking that is located in California and is looking forward to expanding it's production in N. America.

Apparently they've got a very good product but assembly time is about 45 minutes labor per light. Much too expensive to be competitive. They're trying to get that production time down to five minutes per unit... and with or without that, the options appear to be either Mexico or robotics!

Makes good money for management... but not much there for the American middle class worker it seems.

So goes the nation and the economy. So our kids are going to have to really smarten up or learn to flip hamburgers for each other. :(

CWS

[Andy_M]

I didn't see this thread until it resurfaced....

Very disturbing to me. Especially the poster that said he actively tries not to buy US made. I understand that the US has made some poor political moves that I don't like either. But I also understand that Americans have had a tremendous positive efect in the world overall. If it wasn't for the blood of AMERICANS the posts might all be written in German. If it wasn't for the hard work and much tax dollars spent by Americans during the cold war, these posts might be written in Russian. Or we all might not be here at all. I wonder how those Europeans and Canadians that are so anti-USA would like it if we sent them a monthly bill for the upkeep of that nuclear arsenal and all those military bases that keep them nice and secure? Or would they be the first to come running to the United States to protect them, since they all basically haven't spent more than token amounts on their own defense since WWII.

So I have a certain sentiment for anyone that actively tries to not buy American... but it's not suitable for polite company.

As for the origins of the products we buy, it is indeed a ridiculous false savings that our products are all going offshore. The notion of the "service economy" in this country is a fabrication of those that want to exploit short term profit rather than build a strong, productive economy. In my opinion, it was a dumb idea when it started to be verbalised 40 years ago and it's a dumb idea today. I sure hope our schools are teaching the kids to say, "Do you want fries with that". Because that is what they will need to know. In Chinese.

Let's not forget that in many places, the government subsidizes the development of products, factories and indeed entire industries. The Japanese took over many industries because their government sponsored trade department, MITI, targeted those industries. The prices were low for a while, while they grew their market share and our competitive products and factories went under. When they had their position in the market entrenched, guess what... they price went up. We can't compete because we don't have the modern factories anymore and we failed to put the money into infrastructure to remain competitive. The same is going to happen with the onslaught of chinese stuff.... it won't be cheap forever. IMO, we are selling our future and building theirs every time we buy their stuff. When China becomes the next Japan, our wonderful finance types that run our companies will go to the next undeveloped third-world labor market. That is, if we still are able to afford to buy stuff, period.

Our Government, unfortunately, has lost its way and now has no concern for anything, apparently, other than banking institutions and oil companies. So I have some choice thoughts for them to... and I share those with my elected representatives, who I will not vote for again because they aren't doing squat.

I don't buy exclusively American. You have to be a realist. But when I possibly can, I do. It does matter to me where a product comes from. The notion that building the world economy is going to help me is crazy. It is going to help someone, but not those of us that have to work for a living. I do think that there are many cases where "Made in USA" really does mean that a product is better. Even in those cases when it doesn't mean that, to me it still means that I am investing in my chiildren's future.

[tomapple]

"helping" third world economies increase their standard of living will not help those of us in the USA. What it will do is reduce our standard of living as theirs increases...until we are equal. When the average chinese indvidual can afford to buy a refrigerator...world economy will be more or less equal.

[tierraverde@comcast.net]

quote:"I suppose that I should no longer be shocked to hear my fellow Americans tout the virtues of tools made in Taiwan or China, or say they don't care where their tools are made. I personally will vote with my dollars to buy American wherever possible. As a person who makes their living in manufacturing - based in the US, I'll continue to support those like me.

One thing to consider next time you buy that cheaper tool made somewhere else - we can't all make a living in this country by doing each others laundry. The strength of this country has been our ability to manufacture the best tools, equipment, and automobiles in the world"

Mike, I couldn't agree with you more. I was in the Tool & Die industry from the early 1970's and watched the manufacturing industry in our country disappear over the next 25 years. Elk Grove Village, just outside of Chicago, had the largest industrial park in the world. (Centek Industrial Park). It had thousands of small and medium sized companies made up of Tool & Die, Molding, Stamping, and pattern makers. Those companies attracted Steel suppliers, Industrial businesses etc.

The craftsmen working at these companies were proud, conscientious, precise, proud people who turned out work and products 2nd to none in the world. Today it is a virtual ghost town.

The Japanese took about 25 years to recover from WWII, but when they did, they were a formidable competitor. As you may be aware, they manufactured some pretty good ships, planes etc. during the war. They gave us a run for our money starting in the 70's, with auto's and machinery, but it was on a level playing field. They opened our eyes to quality, but we could compete, as pricing of their products was competitive with ours.

Then, a funny (not) thing happened in 1972. Nixon made his famous trek to China with the idea that we could open a market to sell our products. It eventually resulted in us giving them "most favored status" as a trading partner. What resulted, was a floodgate of U.S. businesses sending our technology over there to produce products at a lower cost. The result is we buy from them, as they, being a poor communist country, how could they ever buy from us?

Our manufacturing industry died on the vine in the next 20 years. Since then we have learned nothing. We have signed agreements creating NAFTA and CAFTA.

This has not happened in Germany, or Switzerland where they still promote quality manufacturing. Seventy percent of students still are going through apprenticeships. They protect their base.

The politicians here have promoted our demise, and forced us to "service" jobs that pay nothing, and to convince us that government will provide for us (i.e. Health Care)

The middle class, that had a chance to make a good living is now on life support.

The trades that built this country are disappearing. The electricians, plumbers and carpenters don't have the issue of offshore, but when the middle class is gone, who are they going to have as customers ?

So yep, what's ever left that says "Made in the USA", I'm going to purchase, with price being a second thought.

Sorry for the long rant. :(

[Andy_M]

tierraverde, I agree with you on every point.

Except where you say that the Japanese were on a level playing field. In fact, the Japanese playing field was and is anything but level. They are not friendly to imported American goods. In two ways. First, the government is not friendly. This has been a bone of contention between the US and Japan for a long time now. Second, and more importantly, the japanese consumer chooses not to buy our stuff, and woiuld continue to choose not to even if it was available and competitively priced. Unlike many people in the US, they know what side their bread is buttered on. The exception is the young people,... the most recent generation is attracted to many elements of western culture.

[Cephus]

The real issue is that America has changed from a producer culture to a consumer culture. We really don't make anything anymore, at best we might assemble things from foreign-made parts, usually in overseas factories. All Americans want is cheap stuff quick and the only way to make cheap stuff is overseas.

Don't blame the manufacturers necessarily, many of them are just trying to stay in business the only way they can. Blame the American people.

[Bob D.]

The real issue is that America has changed from a producer culture to a consumer culture


And Ronald Reagan even said this was coming years ago in a speech he made where he said we were transitioning to a service economy from a manufacturing economy.

[stokefire7]

The business model.

[Cephus]

And Ronald Reagan even said this was coming years ago in a speech he made where he said we were transitioning to a service economy from a manufacturing economy.

And we should have stopped it then, we just didn't. :bash:

[tierraverde@comcast.net]

Cephus,

Just as we have not stopped the clowns in Washington on the so-called "Health Crisis" that is a political agenda to attract the "Acorn" jerks to the polls, at the expense of every American that had values of hard work and family values.

This country has become complacent to the point maybe it should fall to the Socialists so we can finally look back at what we lost.

let the revolution begin.

[Cephus]

Cephus,

Just as we have not stopped the clowns in Washington on the so-called "Health Crisis" that is a political agenda to attract the "Acorn" jerks to the polls, at the expense of every American that had values of hard work and family values.

This country has become complacent to the point maybe it should fall to the Socialists so we can finally look back at what we lost.

We've spent 40 years liberalizing America but good luck trying to get it back, far too many people have fallen for the idiocy that they deserve free stuff just for waking up in the morning. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats stand for fiscal responsibility, hard work or personal responsibility anymore, you've got no choice when it comes to actual conservatism. It's an entirely dead issue.