Been looking at the TS3650

[Bdog]

I have been looking at the TS3650 for a while now but I do not want to mess with the arbor install. If I buy a new one, will it have the fixed arbor? Are they recalling current stock to be fixed. I would hate to have to search endless Home Depots to find one with the fixed arbor (as much of a pain as installing the arbor myself).

[daveferg]

I seriously doubt they will be recalling the saws already made. They appear to be handling this on a case-by-case basis---no big announcement---just fixing the arbors of those who have complained. This is just speculation, based on their actions thus far.

To be fair, from what other owners have said, this is a quality control issue in that some owners say they don't have the arbor problem---hard to say if it was a defect from one supplier or no QC inspections of the parts.

I think you'd have to read through the threads here and decide for yourself. People have had any number of alternative brands of saw as suggestions.

[imported_Knot Me]

Some of Ridgid's tools have proven themselves well, but not all. The same is true of most manufacturers. With all due respect to current owners who have deep feelings towards their 3650s, the TS3650 has fallen from grace in my eyes. It's been plagued with nagging little problems from the onset. The latest problem to receive public attention is the arbor, which IMHO is the biggest problem so far....the others seemed minor at the time, but now I see them as one of multiple issues. I feel for current owners who were blind sided and had to deal with these issues. I realize many people got them for 20-30% off which may have helped cushion the blow from the problems. But if I were about to spend nearly $600 for a TS, I'd have written this one off a while ago. There are just too many good competitors in this price range to justify taking on known problems and the added quality risk this machine currently presents. Many other saws will spin an arbor smoothly with sufficient power and support to do an admirable job of cutting wood...it's a simple feat for today's technology. Anyone who's impressed with the way the 3650 performs, would likely also be impressed with the performance of another comparably priced machine in today's market. So from that perspective, I don't understand why people feel compelled to risk jumping into the pool of owners who are struggling to get their saws to perform as advertised, and who may be wondering what's next. :(

[daveferg]

I'd like to add a thought to this. I realize that HD and Sears are, in general, conveinent to most people, which I think, in part, is why even with questionable quality, people find it easy to "like" one of their tools.

I think if you start looking at other local ww'ing stores, you will even find, with a bit of searching, that you can find deals on other saws---saws which (while none are perfect) at least haven't had a long string of problems.

[Bdog]

I have been following the arbor thread for some time now. It is unfortunate that the problem happened and it is good Ridgid is owing up to it but now that they know about it, I would like to buy a new saw that does not have the problem. I still think it is a good saw if you are willing to fix it. All saws have their pros and cons and I have been weighing them for some time now. I have also looked at Grizzly, General, PM, Delta, and others. General raised the price of their contractor saw and I do not think it is as good of a buy at the higher price (I would go for the craftsman mini-cab at that price). The Grizzly pulls too much current for my garage/shop circuits. I have now talked myself into the new craftsman saw with Beis fence. It is more than I want to spend so I am hoping to get it on sale sometime this year unless I can buy the Ridgid with the right arbor already installed and no other major problems pop up.

[imported_Knot Me]

Sears has three versions of the new mini cabinet saw. The 22114 with cast iron wings, retractable indexing fence, miter gauge fence w/hold down clamp, and a decent blade for a suggested retail of $650, but often sells for $540 or less. Like you, I'd prefer the Biese version (22124)if I had the money, but feedback on the 22114 has been quite positive so far.

[daveferg]

Heres a good case in point on "problems". Since 1998, when Sears broke with Emerson on all their stationary tools, their product has been a joke----while I'm not saying there's a thing wrong with the new saw, as far and I and many others, they've got 6 years of bad reputation to live down, which would make me hesitant.

Be aware, that all companies are likely to pass along the price increases General has had, due to steel and devalued dollar.

Bdog---yes, all saws have their pros and cons, but not all have had a string of quality issues like this Ridgid model.

[Bdog]

Well I took the plunge and bought the 22124! Knot Me had some good points about the Ridgid saw. Usually the problems discussed with table saws are "this one does this better than that one" kind of comments. Not "the legs are unstable" or "the arbor is flawed". That line of thinking pushed me into spending more money on what I hope turns out to be a really good saw. I agree with daveferg that Sears has alot of rep to make up. With all the good reviews and satisfied customers (so far!) Took a chance with the 22124. I hope I made the right choice.

[scrambler28]

I also took the plunge and bought the Craftsman 22114 on Saturday. Assembly was simple. had it up and running in a couple of hours. Passed the nickel test on the first start up. Everything seems solid and smooth so far. Also got a dado set, insert and 60t carbide blade with a mail in rebate with the saw. So far I am exteremly pleased.

[daveferg]

I've never hesitated to bash Sears over a long list of past problems, but the review of the new saw was quite impressive. Also, the fact that they have a Biesemeyer fence also says they're serious.

I did find the review very interesting (Workbench Mag.) in that the pioneer's of the 'hybrid' saws lost out to the Craftsman and General. Always knew the Jet was bad, but they weren't real impressed with the DeWalt.

I am curious----understand that the Craftsman has cabinet saw-like trunions. Have you owners found them to be pretty stiff?---i.e., the saw stays in alignment? Is it like a cabinet saw--you just move the top around?

[hewood]

Hope things for work out well for you Bdog and Scrambler....I'm liking what I see of those new saws, and what I've read has been extremely positive.

[scrambler28]

Dave,

My experience with a true cabinet saw is nil, except maybe in high school shop class many years ago, so couldn't really tell you. As far as how long everything stays in alignment, only time will tell. You can be assured that I will post any problems that I may run across as well as the positives. However, at this point, in my opinion this saw blows away the TS3650's that I have played with at various Home Depots. I don't have to worry about modifying legs or replacing an arbor on a brand new piece of equipment either, which played a huge part in my decision.

[imported_Bob D.]

I read the magazine review too, and lhave looked at the Craftsman 22124 on the sales floor a coulpe times now. Even though it is about $300 more, if this saw had been available when I bought my TS3650 last year(Dec 2003), I would have seriously considered it over the TS3650.
Has a nice solid cabinet. The blade guard is fairly easy to remove but not as nice as the old Craftsman (Emerson) system which is what is used on the TS-3650 now. That's right, Ridgid didn't dream this up, it's been around a long time. Don't know why Craftsman didn't stick with it but the new design seems OK. A ton of other features that otheres have talked about and I will not repeat here. It's a new machine that has no track record as yet, but 6 months to a year from now if the reports are still good I may be tempted to get one.

[daveferg]

scrambler--thanks---from the picture it was hard to see how the trunions were mounted on the Craftsman. I will tell you that should I ever upgrade to a cabinet saw, that will be one of the main selling points for me, having spent many hours adjusting contractors' saw trunions. ;)

Bob---That guard mounting system is tops----I can't believe the patent is still in force, but there must be something or other companies would have adapted it----yeah, it was one thing that the new Ridgid guys didn't change for the worse.

[hewood]

Ferg - Ever consider a set of PALS from In-line Industries? $20 delivered. Easy to install and effective for easy, minute adjustments...plus they help hold the trunnions in place so they're less likely to move. I'm not saying they're as good as cab saw trunnions, but they're $20 well invested if you have a contractor saw.

[daveferg]

hewood---already have them----and it is 100% better. Darn it----I keep adding good stuff to my old contractors' saw ----guess that's not the way to get a cabinet saw. ;)

[scrambler28]

Dave Ferg,

If you were asking about the settings coming out of adjustment during operation, the handwheels have adjusting knobs in the middle of the wheels so you can lock them from moving out of adjustment during whatever settings you are using during a particular sawing operation.Hope this helps even with my apparent lack of proper nomenclature.

Scrambler28

[papa curtis]

I too am undecided about the Rigid 3650, but I like the Heculift for potability and the large work surface for cross-cutting cabinet material.
What is a PAL? Who makes the Sears 22114? I purchased one of these on-line Dec 24 and when I went to pick it up at the store there was none in stock as the said on-line. The sales rep said this happens all the time. I can get the same price of $555 including tax, but I have no mobile base to go with it. Does anyone have any suggestion? I contacted the Hec-u-lift company and they said they don't sell a mobile base. What's up with that? The Sears 22124 to just to expensive for my budget so right now it is either the Sears or the HD. I'm unsure about the Grizzly and the support. Thank you for your help in advance. Keep you powder dry!

[scrambler28]

papacurtis,
Sears has mobile base for about $60 that will fit the saw.As a side note, when i bought mine it was the last one they had in stock and when I was talking to the warehouse guys they said people must like these saws because they have loaded up about 10-15 of them the week i bought mine.

scrambler28

[daveferg]

Papa Curtis----doesn't calling Herc-u-lift and having them tell you they have no mobile bases--tell you something about their customer service?

The Herc- is a nice base, but by no means should be a deciding factor. You can build a mobile base for under $20 and be to the good having a better selection of saws.

I would also advise against a cheaper Sears saw. While their new hybrid is getting great reviews, just remember, that they were selling real junk for years---great they're changing, but it may take time to catch up with the rest of their tools.

I'd say do some looking in your price range---it may require more effort than just popping into a local HD, but it just might be worth it. Griz', Bridgewood, General and Delta and Jet would be what I'd look into.

[hewood]

Originally posted by papa curtis:
What is a PAL? Who makes the Sears 22114? PALS are a set of alignment hardware intended to aid in the alignment of contractor saw trunnions (which are typically a bit tricky to align). The Sears 22114 won't need them b/c they use a cabinet saw style trunnion system. I don't think the 3650 needs them either b/c there's an aligment system built into the trunnions.

Orion International makes the three new Sears mini cabinet saws and their 6" jointer. Orion was formed about 5 years ago by former Delta/Pentair employees.

FWIW, Grizzly's CS has been great in my experience, and I concur with Ferg's list of saws to research.

[scrambler28]

Update on the Craftsman 22114 TS:
I have had the saw about 2 weeks now and have run it just about every night. everything integral to the saw itself has kept perfect alignment, no adjustments have been needed yet. I still think I must have missed something because everything went together so well that it only took me a couple of hours to have it running. I have heard people on this forum and others talk about the endless hours they have put in assemblying various brands of TS's.
Now for the bad. I have noticed the rip fence (Craftsman) had started to get hung up and drag a little bit, after all kinds of adjustments I finally noticed that the bolts that hold the polyurethane slides on were protruding past the slide and dragging on the aluminum fence rail. It started to cut a groove in the fence rail. The good news is that it was an easy fix. I just stuck an extra washer under the bolt head to prevent them from screwing in to far and then i ground about an 1/8 of an inch off of the nuts so they were recessed well into the hole. Now the fence works great,(not as good as beis of course)but smooth and solid.

Scrambler28

[imported_MDEly1]

Grizz is a great saw. Put a 40t CMT on mine and have been well pleased. Now that 2005 is here and the new Griz catalog is out they have a left tilt CS to go with its rt tilt 444z brother. The arbor threads stop a good .25 in from the face of the arbor and with the 2hp motor it can turn any 8" stacked dado, no cleanup needed, nice and flat.

[Bdog]

I wish my new 22124 TS went together as smoothly as yours Scrambler28. The splitter assembly wasn't threaded right (Sears is sending me a new one) and the phillips screw to adjust the bevel gauge is so tight I cannot loosen it without it getting stripped :confused: . I talked to Sears about this one and the tech said he had the same experience and could not explain why they torqued it on so tight. Hopefully I will finish assembly this weekend and have more to report. Sears' CS has been top notch so far. Very easy to get a hold of someone with great knowledge of the saw.

[Bdog]

I finally got that screw loose. Had to dremel a groove in it and use the biggest flat head screw driver I had. Not fun.... Finished putting together the rest of the saw without any major problems. It was missing some lock washers for the extension table and the fence is really tight. Anyone else with a Beis fence? Is it supposed to be so tight and then break-in or should I readjust it so it slides easier? I put paste wax on it but it barely budges... On a positive note, it cuts smooth as butter!

[hewood]

Originally posted by Bdog:
Anyone else with a Beis fence? Is it supposed to be so tight and then break-in or should I readjust it so it slides easier? I put paste wax on it but it barely budges... On a positive note, it cuts smooth as butter! Readjust it so it slides easier. Mine glides easily. It shouldn't be tight until you lock it down. You'll still want to wax it, but it doesn't sound like wax will solve this.

[Bdog]

Thanks for the reply Hewood. I will re-adjust it. Is it difficult to get it square again?

[daveferg]

(stepping in for Hewood) It's a bit of trial and error, since you have to take the fence off to adjust it, but once you get the hang of the effect of turning each screw, shouldn't take that long.

[Bdog]

One other thing. There is some kind of material (looks like phenolic) on the locking mechanism (between metal locking mechanism and tube). Is this supposed to be there. I assumed it is to help wear and tear but maybe it is not supposed to be there. Does everyone else's have this. It is not the clear-white plastic (nylon)tabs