Emerson Announces New RIDGID Power Tools

[Norm]

St. Louis, MO, July 1, 2003 – Emerson Professional Tools, a business of Emerson (NYSE: EMR), today announced efforts to enhance the manufacturing and marketing of Emerson’s RIDGID® brand bench top and stationary woodworking power tool products. Under the agreement, One World Technologies (OWT), a wholly owned subsidiary of TechTronic Industries Company Limited (TTI) (HKEx stock code 669; ADR symbol TTNDY), will supply these RIDGID® brand tools, leveraging the strengths from each organization in engineering and quality manufacturing.

The tools will be built to meet the high standards established by Emerson that customers have come to expect from the RIDGID brand name -- hallmarks such as reliability, durability, best-in-class manufacturing, industry-leading design and professional quality.

“This new partnership and business model will further enhance an innovative line of power tools that already has the respect of end users everywhere,” said Pat Sly, Emerson executive vice president and Emerson Professional Tools business leader. “RIDGID tools have long been recognized as superior products within the industry, and this agreement will strengthen that position.”
The Home Depot is and will remain the exclusive hardware home center retailer of RIDGID bench and stationary woodworking power tools, as well as wet/dry vacs, hand tools, pumps and plumbing/pipefitting tools.

With a well-established reputation in the power tool industry, OWT will leverage its record of innovation, product development and leading capabilities in manufacturing logistics and distribution. Strict adherence to RIDGID quality standards will be maintained as the companies transition production.

“This is quite an honor for One World Technologies to manufacture these bench top and stationary tools,” said Bob Freitag, Executive Vice President of OWT. “In fact, the new line will include improved features and benefits consistent with RIDGID’s reputation for meeting and exceeding the needs of professional contractors. This is a win-win for all parties, and we’re excited to help ensure that the RIDGID brand continues to be a success for The Home Depot,” Freitag continued.

Tool users can expect the new line of bench top and stationary power tools from the partnership to begin appearing in The Home Depot stores this August.

Emerson will continue supporting the full RIDGID line and will remain a significant manufacturer of RIDGID wet/dry vacuums, hand tools, and other products for The Home Depot.

The new partnership also impacts technical and after-sales service for the bench top and stationary woodworking power tools. RIDGID has always enjoyed an excellent reputation for service, and this agreement will expand and improve performance in that area. New services include nationwide two-day UPS part service for faster turn-around, triple the number of available local service centers, and a dedicated, full-time staff to answer technical woodworking tool-related questions.

As always, customers can call 1-800-4-RIDGID (1-800-474-3443) to speak with a RIDGID technical service representative and obtain service part ordering information or visit www.ridgid.com. (http://www.ridgid.com.) An additional toll free number, 1-866-539-1710, is also available to further facilitate customer inquiries.

Emerson Professional Tools brings together technology and engineering to design and produce some of the highest quality tools and equipment in the world. From wet/dry vacs to the industry's best-selling pipe diagnostic system, key brands include RIDGID, Knaack and Weatherguard. Emerson Professional Tools is a business of St. Louis-based Emerson (www.gotoemerson.com), a global leader in providing innovative solutions to customers in electronics and telecommunications; process control; industrial automation; heating, ventilating and air conditioning; and appliance and tools. Sales in fiscal 2002 were $13.8 billion.

Founded in 1985, TTI is one of the largest and fastest growing manufacturers of professional and do-it-yourself home improvement products. The company manufactures power tools, gas and cordless outdoor power equipment and floor care products such as vacuums and deep cleaning extractors. The products manufactured by TTI are sold under its own industry leading brands and under other internationally recognizable brand names under an OEM basis. The company employs over 12,000 employees worldwide. The company has enjoyed continuous growth since its listing on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange in 1990, achieving double-digit growth for the past eight years.

[Alan J.]

Thank you Norm! I guess more details will be following as August approaches.

[kbrandon]

OK, for those playing at home, that confirms that the maker of Ryobi will now be making Ridgid.

Hopefully, they will do so using Ridgid quality as stated. Guess we shall see.

Kevin

[Andy B.]

Well that a bomb shell.

[Rafael]

If I want ryobi, then I'll buy ryobi.

[Dave Arbuckle]

The tools will be built to meet the high standards established by Emerson that customers have come to expect from the RIDGID brand name

I wonder, of the people who seem very dismayed by this news, how many realize just how few machines are built by vaunted names like Powermatic.

Thanks for the news, Norm. If the deal is done right, everyone can win.

Dave

[UO_Woody]

I agree with Dave A.

This is what I see. Here is a company that does nothing but inovate, engineer, test and produce the things we use. They have a full aray quality line. Ridgid is suggested to be near the top end. Now take a company like Emerson, which is electric motors. They supply the motors to the producer of the machines. Emerson spcializing in the drive train. While the chassis is built by another company specializing in chassis.

Example: NASCAR, and the Pit Crew and Chief Mechanic. They build the Engine and Drive Train. But they don't build the Chassis. It's the drive train work they do that makes a winning car. But without a quality chassis, there is no winning combination. Emerson MUST see to it that the chassis is a winner, or it will fail. I'm sure Ridgid is not setting itself up to fail.

The way I see it is, Emerson is strictly sticking to it's specialty, Motors. Giving them more flexibility and resoarces to R&D. While letting the assembly and Engineering of the machine to people who spcialize in that. Combined, we, the end user, Emerson and Chassis manufacture are all winners. We like the machine and it's performance, we buy. We brag, more buy. The win/win is what everyone is looking for. No company is going to make such a move as Ridgid has done unless it well thought out, and the numbers put to test.

Besides, it's all up to the consumer to do their research for a unit they are looking for. What fit's thier needs in the price they can afford. Doing so, will get you the bang for the buck your so accomstomed to with the Ridgid Brand Name.

[Mark IV]

Well, on the up side, new tools... and innovative new tools in particular... are kind of exciting.

I know that most "brands" are really just avenues to the market, and hopefully a support network to go along with it. Key components of most of Grandpa's dearly beloved brands are now made overseas, and have been for a long time. As indicated elsewhere, I have no problem with that at all.

I don't think these new products are going to have Emerson motors. Techtronic does not need Emerson motors, which would be completely redundant to their own technology and sources. I am willing to stand corrected on this, but I don't see any such reference in any of their statements.

It would be nice to think that they will supply motors and other parts (they probably do some outsourcing of their own) to a generalized Emerson performance spec, which allows them to use their own specific strengths to meet a standard with which Emerson won't be embarassed. HK tech companies are very good at that. Emerson could conceivably share some design info for a motor that they're going to be associated with. Sure wouldn't make much sense to build motors here, ship to China, and ship finished product back.

If Emerson makes it clear that the "Ridgid" brand is positioned (and usually priced) above Ryobi, and that the price/performance expectation for a Ridgid-branded tool is measurably higher, there is some hope.

The quality goals have to be measurable... and the 3 year warranty is a little disconcerting. NOT because it is out of line with the industry, or insufficient, but because it seems to represent a step back from an earlier commitment.

Not sure I'd want the first ones off the line. If you buy cars, you know how that goes. Your product failures are gonna be their lessons learned. Ultimately, they could end up with very fine products.

A lot of people slam Ryobi, because they paid 50% less for a tool, and got 30% less use out of it. That's the wrong metric to use... it means you were at least 20% to the good on the investment. If you wanted more life or features, you shoulda paid full boat.

The real measure of value is, how many failures did they have out of the box, or within the warranty period? Answer: not many. Ryobi is a brand that delivers what it promises, and only the user's unreasonable expectations out of a bargain product cause it to fall short in some folks' eyes.

The key question then is: Will the Ridgid/Emerson brand be held to a higher quality standard than Ryobi? I have no doubt that an HK company can meet (or exceed) the standards of a Ridgid, with some time, regardless of whether they happen to manufacture other lines to lower specs.

Will they be held to a higher standard? We are staying tuned....

[Tool Freak]

The Home Depot is and will remain the exclusive hardware home center retailer of RIDGID bench and stationary woodworking power tools Thats a bummer! :mad: No mention if Ridgid will begin to have reps go to the HD stores to actually maintain and display the tools like other tool companies do.

I can see it now... Boxes of new model Ridgid tools sitting under the display of Old model Ridgid tools marked with price tags saying they are the new models.

On the positive side I love to here the word innovation mentioned!

Thank for the info Norm! :D

[gmike]

I seriously doubt that Ryobi has the technology or engineering to produce products that are better than the Craftsman level they currently produce. If they have advanced capability why haven't they produced higher quality tools up to this point? Spare me the "BT3xxx better than a cabinet saw" defenses, I ain't convinced. My lone Ryobi stationary tool purchase (Miter saw) was less than a pleasant experience.

This is clearly a big company (Emerson) unloading a business unit that wasn't as profitable as the rest of it's business interests. Those of you that have great faith that things will be better than ever - pay with your credit card so you have a means to dispute the charges.

I own a few Rigid tools, including the TP1300, and I certainly hope the optimists are right and I am wrong but I won't be buying any Rigid WW machines for a while.

Sorry to be a d1ckhead on this but I'm tired of companies trying to spin me into believing that coal is diamonds.

[Mark IV]

gmike, I know what you mean, but...

It's not about "Ryobi" having better technology. One World Technologies is a part of Techtronics (http://www.tti.com.hk/profile.htm) and they make some Ryobi stuff... how much, we'll probably never know. It is built to a certain spec. They make a lot of other stuff (Homelite) and do not appear lacking in technology... at all. They certainly aren't lacking in cash. Technology is applied cash.

It's not like every manufacturer in the world sets out to be the very best, and then their degree of failure determines their place in the quality pecking order.

They identify a place in the market, including quality, price, and distribution, and target a product line at that place. If Ryobi was where part of their business was, don't hold it against 'em. These boys are minting money and are probably exceeding their goals.

If Ridgid has set the right standard, you may be amazed, if you're patient (don't blame you for not jumping in right now). It isn't Ryobi making things. Ryobi is just a brand. It's this TTI outfit ($1.2 bil and all) making things for a new niche, the Ridgid niche, and I'll give them some time to prove themselves.

Re-read Dave A's post... some of the WW cult names, Grizz, Powermatic, Wilke, etc., roll off the same lines, as do major components of Delta and others. It's not like Bosch is made by olde worlde German craftsmen, for that matter. All you need for Made in USA is to assemble enough subassemblies on this side of the ocean.

I am still waiting for that yellow tag on the 3612, however.

[Mike3206]

Typical marketing press release -a whole lot of hype and very little information.

"a new line of tools" -what are they!

My money says the contract calls for Emerson motors to be used in whatever equipment can be produced using Emerson morots.

[Curly Qsawn]

Guessing game - new tools:
My wager says the first new tools for ridgid will be cordless tools - I'll bet they will come in kits - drill, CS, sawzall, worklight, charger and 2 batteries. It will be ridgid grey and orange.

[daveferg]

I also like the "innovation" promise. But, Ryobi has had innovation, but had poor quality. So we shall see!

Sorry, but the point about PM and other brands having only a small selection of tools, kind of went right over my head! Sooooo???

Anyway---it will be interesting to see what happens. I agree that whatever is done, they need to improve the presence of factory reps at HD stores. I don't know if Ridgid ever realized just how many sales were lost to poor HD merchandising-----all you have to do is read the posts here. Let's hope that improves.

[Nothern Beaver]

Hey Gmike!
Not too pesimistic are we! GM makes some amazing high end quality cars as well as some real sh1tboxes that they try to give away. We can't judge a company by only one product line.

[Littleboss]

Manufacturing Homelite products is nothing to brag about. If they make their woodworking tools with the same quality as their Homelite junk, I will not touch them. I wore out two Homelite chain saws here on the farm, before I got smart and bought a Stihl. 10 years later it is still going strong.

[Patrick A]

Now I'm confused...(suprise! tongue.gif :D )

Initially, I thought Ridgid would control the specifications for the tools being built. It was pointed out to me that I was wrong and that they were going to license the name only. The new release suggests that they will maintain some control over the products produced:
"meet the high standards established by Emerson"
Will they or won't they have control over the tools built with their name?

[Rick Leet]

Why do ya think John Deere got rid of Homelite - They just pawned some junk off on someone that may be alittle more use to such stuff!! r

[douggage]

The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding. Can't do much now but wait and speculate. I expect the worst. ( If I am wrong then things will be better than I expected ! ) :D

[ 07-03-2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: douggage ]

[timthetoolmantaylor]

Let me add something to this. Outsourcing manufacturing is nothing new. Companies have been doing it for years and years. 10 years ago I worked at a manufacturing plant that made instrument panels for automobiles. It was an interesting experience to say the least. But the important thing to point out is that in the one facility that I worked in, we made the instrument panels for Buick Century, Dodge Shadow, Cadillac Deville, Chevy Lumina, Olds Cutlass, Ford Taurus, and a host of others. All of the big three car makers were serviced at my plant and each of the three brands had different processes and tolerences set up for it. The engineering was done by the respective car makers, and the plans and specifications were given to us. We still had to build the parts to the car makers' specs. So it is a myth when someone says that because it's made in the same factory, it's the same part. I can assure you that it isn't.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Sorry, but the point about PM and other brands having only a small selection of tools, kind of went right over my head!

You aren't the only one, Dave. Sometimes I'm better than others at putting an idea across.

Powermatic does not have a "small selection of tools". The Powermatic line-up is MUCH larger than the RIDGID woodworking line-up.

However, very few of them are actually built by "Powermatic". They are built by contract manufacturers. Like RIDGID is now doing.

Fact is, like RIDGID has done for goodness knows how long. I'll bet you that the Paris, TN plant hasn't made a jointer in 40 years, if ever.

Does that make my point clearer? I don't see (many) people wringing their hands because Powermatic or Delta tools aren't necessarily built in owned plants. Heck, Jet and Grizzly sustain some sort of reputation despite not actually building anything in an owned plant.

Dave

[Patrick A]

Dave A,

I'm stuck on this from the first press release:
"Emerson has developed a program to license the RIDGID brand"

I'm not concerned with who manufactures the tools(or where). It's whether or not Ridgid actually has a say in the design/specifications. My attitude towards the tools would depend upon that answer. I wouldn't be very enthusiastic if Ryobi had full control. You know... past performance not a guarantee of future results... but it's certainly an indicator ;)

[KellyC]

Two days off the forum and I miss this release...so all of those who thought it was gonna by Ryobi were right. I know most other companies farm out stuff, but you have to realize this company doesn't make much that any of us are interested in buying. I don't know of many of you that have new Craftsman or Ryobi tools in your shop.

Emerson has done this to unload an unprofitable tool line and Ryobi (who'd love to make everyone's tools) has bought the license. Everything made by this company is for the homeowner set...those who do not use their tools very often and do not need heavy duty anything. I for one do not fit into the hobbiest/homeowner group they target, so I'm out on anything new they might make. I've been down the Chinese tool road before and the results weren't favorable.

For those of you who are optimistic about this, I wish you the best of luck with the new tools and I hope our fears are unfounded. For those who are dismayed, I'm with ya. :eek:

[Dae]

I came back to this site looking for possible suggestions on miter saws and saw this post. It made me run down to my local Home Depot and pick up a Ridgid. The reason I did this was because I didn't want Ryobi and I felt this might be one of very few chances to get a quality product at a decent price. I guess I'll have to see what the quality of future "Ridgid" products will be. I do know that I won't be buying these new "Ridgid" products for some time, especially if I can get the same thing in the Ryobi name at a better price.

BTW, the future Ridgid tools maybe for the hobbiest of which I am (I don't even own a home), but you won't see me buying crap.

- Dae

I now own two quality Ridgid products, TS3612 and now the MS1250LS

[Backyard Woodworker]

Dae,
On the side of the box your ms1250ls came in is the following:
"Made in Tiawan under strict Ridgid quality standards".
It was out-sourced, lincenced, whatever. But is is a "Quality Ridgid Product".
The same is on the side of the box that my TP1300 came in I just bought today.
Now, Have to assemble the new TP1300!
Rob Johnson
Orange,Ca.

[ 07-04-2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Backyard Woodworker ]

[Dae]

Backyard Woodworker,

Crap, it say's it's made in Taiwan! I'm going to have to take it back and swap the thing out for the other one they had. When I was there looking at the saws I thought I saw "Made in the USA" on the Ridgid box. Maybe it was a different saw there but I thought it was the same. I just didn't grab that one because it was on the bottom and I grabbed the top box. I wonder if this saw I got has the lifetime warrenty or it's got the 3 years. Thanks for the info Backyard Woodworker.

- Dae

[daveferg]

Dave A.----reading through---just wasn't clear, at least to me, what you meant----very true point though. But, I think there is a big difference between contracting with a plant in Taiwan, to build a tool for your company, and licensing out a brand name----at least my view of the connotation says there's minimal controls by the licenser----

Well, there is more than enough in this to confuse anyone except for insidders at Emerson. I for one won't look at this change as a simple continuation of the Ridgid name-----these new tools will have to earn their strips before I buy anything.

[Cutbuff]

Dae, I wouldn't bother to go back and try and get one that says Made in USA on the box, there aren't any. The majority of the 13 machines in the Ridgid Woodworking line are made in Taiwan or China. Even the venerated 3612 TS was only assembled here in Tennessee, from a large proportion of components that were made in Taiwan. That's why it says: Built in USA.

David

[Dae]

David,

Thanks for the info. Because it was not built or made in the US, I was thinking about taking it back and getting a DeWalt. Dewalt was being made here on the eastern shore of Maryland but I know they were, may have already, shut the Black and Decker plant down to manufacture in Mexico.

Here's what I don't understand. I don't understand how it can be cheaper to manufacture overseas then ship here. I can understand Mexico because of NAFTA, but the Far East? The shipping cost has to be crazy high.

There are imports products I prefer over US products but when it come to most things, especially tools, I like "MADE in THE USA."

- Dae

[Cutbuff]

Dae,

You can't have been looking too closely, but probably 90%+ of what's in your home has been made outside of the USA. Take a look at the labels on your clothes, and everything else for that matter. It is unusual to find something with a Made in USA sticker on it, rather than the other way round!

Container shipping costs are low, as are the overall manufacturing costs. The selling prices here, are often lower than what it would cost just to manufacture the product in the USA, hence our entire reliance these days on imported goods. :(

David

[splinters]

Based on the unemployment reports that the US has lost over 2 million FACTORY jobs in the last 2 years, it's not hard to believe that the manufacturing of tools is done overseas. And these jobs will not be returning to the US anytime soon. The next few years will probably see a few million more factory jobs lost. I feel that as the economy picks up, we won't see any change in this trend. It's a shame that the product quality and manufacturing skills that we developed and perfected in this country over the past 100 years is quickly dying out. Some may say that this is just progress.....

[UO_Woody]

Has anyone considered:

It was posted above that Ryobi manufactures for the DIYer and Hobbyest. Well, Like the old reliable B&D name has turned into DeWalt, and B&D is now a cheaper line...Could it be this is a way for Ryobi to break out of the cheaper line? Making the Ridgid name the equal to what the DeWalt is, the "Quality" line of tools?

Not sure how many of you get and read the WoodWorkers EZine that comes every other week via Email, but I read just a couple weeks ago Bosch is doing much the same. I forget what exactly went round and round. I'll dig up the archives and post the link in an "Edit" to this post. Emerson name was also mentioned, I'll have to read it again myself.

(Edit) Link to Ezine Bosch Interview (http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/ezine/interview.cfm)

[ 07-07-2003, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: UO_Woody ]

[Jimmy62]

I don't like this new Ridgid deal at all. I bought my WW Ridgid tools because they were built in America, by americans and there quality and not to mention the warrenty. Here we go again shipping more American jobs across the ocean. I am done buying Ridgid!!! If we don't all wake up and look for American products to buy, there will be no manufacturing in the U.S.A. And what does that give our children too look forward to??? A $7.00/hr job at Walmart.

[Mark IV]

You buy Ridgid tools at Home Depot.

The Depot, in turn, put the corner hardware out of business, the place where everyone knew your name and the year your house was built.

Change with the times, or at least prepare the kids to. We can't change the fact that we live in a world market. Free trade is what the USA is all about. Nostalgia is what's holding us back.

That said, the new Ridgid tools will still have to earn respect or die an uncompetitive death.

[daveferg]

Woody brings up a good point. Ridgid may become, to Ryobi, what DeWalt is to B&D or Bosch is to Skill. Again, who knows.

I would have to say that, as far as keeping American jobs, by buying American-----we've lost the battle! There are so few products made in the USA----indeed, try and buy an American TV, leather goods or a set of Christmas lights! On many goods, I'm finding it extremely hard to buy something NOT made in China!

[Mike3206]

Dave,

Yes, we've already lost the battle. What people should see is that they need to change and become educated in a different field. As far as I know, the service industry will always be growing. As long as the population increases, there will be more need for contractors and other service specialists of all types. Remember, the programmers from India can't set the new fiber optic cable in the building in texas. Someone in the US has to do it.

Sorry to veer off topic on this one.

[Cutbuff]

Jimmy62, the only Ridgid tool/machines that appear to have been assembled in the USA are the table saws, and those from a great number of Taiwanese components. Take a look at the labels, you're about 25 years too late!

Good to know that the new tools will come from the same neck of the woods as the old ones, so there's no need to get upset! ;)

As for jobs for your children, get them into Law or Medicine, there'll always be a need for these guys.

David

[Rafael]

Take it from an out of work for 2 years computer programmer, the more programming, customer phone support and customer service is transferred to india and ireland, the fewer contractors and other service pro's will be needed. A room with 100 phone support people needs 100+ computers and the required cabling.
Eventually someone will figure out how to do law and medicine from india also.

[Dae]

rafael,

Don't forget the jobs from the US going to Canada and the Philipines. Last year the company I was working for, opened up customer service shops (opened 3 locations) in Canada. Once up and running they shut us down and a couple other shops in the US down. Then a few months later, they opened up another customer service center in the Philipines. What I also found out was that they had a last year opened a location in India also. What I don't get is why Canada. They can't be saving that much by going north of the border.

[Mark IV]

Definitely not trying to be smug, but when you read that A recent survey of 145 U.S. companies by consultant Forrester Research found that 88 percent of the firms that look overseas for services claimed to get better value for their money offshore than from U.S. providers, while 71 percent said offshore workers did better quality work. (http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/13/news/economy/jobs_offshore/), you have to wonder if you had better not change personal employment tactics.

Companies don't just say these things to be mean. They do what they need to do, to survive. Their stockholders demand it, and their stock might be in your retirement portfolio (including 401Ks and union pensions).

[Stuart H]

As you said, they do what they need to do for the stockholder. If they weren't satisified, do you really think that they would want the stockholders to know that they just made these massive changes and the quality didn't stay the same, or even got worse? I would be very surprised to see a single large company admit to their shareholders that they made a big mistake. It would be bad for the stock price, bad for confidence in management,etc.

[pssmith]

Maybe a good suggestion for the Ridgid site would be to start putting free plans on the forum. Because when a discussion of global economics and American companies who make a FINANCIALLY feasible decision to outsource production to increase profit margin and be more competitively priced encompasses a discussion with 40 or more replies, none of us really have much going on these days (myself included).

It's probably discouraging for many patriotic folks, and I, myself, love and have served my country. However, the fact of the matter is money is money and private business exists only for the welfare of those invested in it. Welfare is gauged by sales and that means money changes hands. Now where I think this must be scrutinzed is in the ethics of providing a fair price for quality products. I don't think it's as prudent to question where they come from simply because it is outsourced. Realizing this, everyone is entitled to buy from whoever they want. But before we point fingers at companies in a perceived lack of patriotism for manufacturing or using foreign labor and products, we definitely should scrutinize what product they are providing for the money they are asking. I see nothing in the Spirit of Brotherhood by paying an overinflated price for a lesser quality product. This doesn't do my family or anyone else's family any good.

Mark's post above is interesting indeed because as pure tool enthusiast, but also cost driven, the swing to using foreign labor is consistent with getting more for our dollar. As much as I hate to see people lose their jobs to the competition of someone doing a better job at a lesser price and the number of jobs lost, that doesn't mean opportunity has left the country, it just evolves. I think Mike said it with the cable still needs to be installed. Besides, my aspirations for my children don't lie in the lost job itself, but rather the ability to adapt to what has always been an evolving economic climate.

It might upset people this whole Ridgid / Ryobi thing, but if it does mirror other similar home enthusiast/serious WWer companies, than your Ridgid products should continue to have the life one's built under the old regime put out. I own Bosch, DeWalt, PC, Ridgid and Ryobi (Forgive me Father, for I have sinned, it's been several months since I bought that 12" drill press :D ) and I'm not anticipating their replacement anytime soon. While the warranty isn't there, the quality should remain. If it isn't, a "free" economic climate will ensure that you get the best value for your dollar, it just may not be with Ridgid.

Remember there's a difference between not having anything to do, and not having anything to do at work :D

[CannonCreek]

:mad: :confused: I live in Garden City, Mi (a western suburb of Detroit), and I can visit any one of four HDs in just a few minutes. And I do.
Not one of these stores have Ridgid tools displayed well. They are positioned such that you can't look closely at them. They are assembled poorly, and are filthy at two of the stores. I have also had the experience that many other folks in this forum have discribed: When I dicided that I absolutely was going to buy the oscilating belt sander I had to find it myself, in the third store I went to!! (A pallet of about half a dozen was on the high rack above the ceiling tiles display.)
I will not buy another Ridgid WW tool, no matter where it's built, if I have to deal with a Home Depot!

[Rafael]

Mark, I would love the opportunity to do "better quality work", but over 400,000 information technology jobs have left California(according to the L.A. Times) since the beginning of 2002. I am struggling to find any work that pays enough to live here. I am 41 and most employers I have interviewed with consider me too old or overqualified, and this is for jobs paying less than 30k a year. I used to make over 80k but those jobs will never return. Me and my wife have american cars and we buy american when possible, unfortunately most people will not realize the disaster they are contributing to(until they can't find work) by buying foreign made products when an equal or better american product is available at a good price. The major media will never highlight this since they are generally anti-american.
I apologize if this is starting to get off topic, but I needed to get this off my chest.

[George]

Originally posted by rafael:
...but over 400,000 information technology jobs have left California(according to the L.A. Times) since the beginning of 2002. I am struggling to find any work that pays enough to live here. ... Speaking as a senior Systems Engineer and Software Consultant, there are plenty of programming jobs available around the country. I don't know what your qualifications are but you certainly aren't too old. I don't want to anger a fellow woodworker (please don't take this the wrong way) and I know that you said you want to live there but if you want to work in that field then you need to do what you have to do. Get up, move off the "left coast" and go where the work is. High tech software development jobs aren't leaving the country that I can see. They may leaving California for various reasons but there are plenty to be found in the USA.

Just a helpful suggestion. smile.gif

And I too apologize for getting off topic.

[ 07-10-2003, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: George ]

[Mark IV]

Originally posted by rafael:
we buy american when possible, unfortunately most people will not realize the disaster they are contributing to(until they can't find work) by buying foreign made products when an equal or better american product is available at a good price. rafael, I feel for you, and I was quoting an opinion poll of industry, not stating my own thoughts on the American worker.

Discerning tool shoppers (i.e., those who read all the labels and stuff) have known they weren't buying "American" for a long time, including those of Ridgid.

The US tax code has as much to do with the flight of jobs overseas, as productivity. It isn't just the workers who make producing here overpriced.

Anyway, the source of woodworking and other power tools has long since been settled. The threats about "buying American" are empty- there's nothing else to buy. There are reasons for that and we can't control them. We can't make the world small or simple again, unless you go Neanderthal, which is cutting off nose to spite face.

You can't punish Ridgid for doing what everyone else has already done. Too much has been made of this, and not enough of the fate of the "old" tools and parts and warranty.

If we want to get all macrocosmic, we should be preparing the kids for engineering and programming and other tech jobs (which continue to be growth employment sectors, despite California's self-inflicted wounds), and not training them to ***** about good old days that they don't remember and which won't do them any good, anyway. And we should cut corporate taxes, and offer incentives for those who invest in automation to keep manufacturing at home. Corporations R Us, in all senses of the words, whether we realize it or not. Asia has.

And so forth.

[Backyard Woodworker]

Here!!Here!!
Well put.
You have to "Go with the Flow", as we have no choice. Buy American? There's no such thing anymore. And it's not a recent development.My 1946 Willys CJ2A has a dashboard full of imported gages. How much more American can you get than a 1946 Jeep? Didn't the War just end?
Younger Parents would do well to outfit there kids for the future.
I see it everyday. At Caterpillar, which is the most basic, moving freight-moving dirt company,the computer skills required to work on these machines seems to double every year. (Side note-Cat just licensed there clothing line to a overseas supplier).
It's one world today.
As for California's problems and Joe(Gray)Davis, one word summs it up....Recall.
Rob Johnson
Orange,CA.

[gator]

Sure Job Bets For the Future

Tell your kids/grandkids to go to Vo-Tech school. With all the programmers and economists around, no one will know how to fix your A/C or plumbing, or electrical service, or automobile, or any home maintenance. And you certainly won't call India or Tiawan for a plumber to come to the house. Look at what they are making now and interoplate what they will make in the future when the demand grows.

gator

[George]

Originally posted by gator:
Sure Job Bets For the Future

... no one will know how to fix your ... automobile....

gator I don't know about you Gator, but I *ALREADY* can't find anyone to fix my American made car! :rolleyes:

If the mechanics around here can't get a "computer" to tell them the problem, they're helpless ! I don't care what kind of "certification" that they have, they just can't do it. I haven't had a decent American made car that was built after the 70's and many of the ones built in the mid to late 70's weren't all that great. For the first time I'm considering doing what I and my family historically would have NEVER done and that is buy imported. The prices keep going up and the quality keeps going down. And if I do decide to buy an imported automobile, I don't think I want an overseas brand that was assembled here either. Not sure they're much better. I want something that came off a ship in one whole piece from one of those countries that I'm not too particularly fond of at the moment.

I'm not going to turn my back on Ridgid for going overseas. You get different quality merchandise from overseas just as you do here. But I will wait and see what kind of experience other people have with the new stuff to see how the quality goes before I buy anything else from them. They simply will have to earn the trust of the market again.

[Rafael]

American made products may contain many foreign parts, but at least they're assembled here and that provides decent jobs for your freinds and neighbors.
As for ridgid, they made good quality, good priced woodworking tools in the US. The profit was low, not because of production cost, but because of their idiotic relationship with HD and poor management. I rarely go into an HD without seeing a Hilti rep maintaining the Hilti display and talking to customers and demoing Hilti products. As far as I can tell ridgid has no reps. Making ridgid overseas will not increase sales! If they could make them on the moon for 99% less and HD did not display or merchandise them properly, they still will not sell. Basic things like doing woodworking shows and internet sales would increase business.
Incra will be doing the orange county fair this year, it is not a woodworking show, that is a bit innovative and will increase sales. To buy incra locally I have to travel about 60 miles(2 hours in L.A. time) or I can buy it on the internet.To buy ridgid I drive 20 minutes to HD and spend 2 hours having their help(an oxymoron) find it in stock. I have actually had an HD that said their computer said they had 20 tablesaws in stock but they didn't know where they were.

[George]

I wonder if any HD people have a clue as to how much HD is getting bashed on the web. All retail chains have locations where the employees are just idiots but HD seems to be taking more shelling than others. I have had really great experiences with HD here where I live but the Lowe's stores make me want to scream.

I purchased an Incra miter guage at a show recently but I haven't had the opportunity to really put it to work. No one sells Incra locally. I tried to order a catalog and their demo tape off their web site. They sent me the auto reply saying "your new catalog and tape was on its way!" I never saw it and they have ignored me when I contacted them to ask where it was. I was thinking about purchasing their fancy drill press table (so I would have one less thing to build to get on with my projects) but I think I'll go back to my original plan to build my own. So if you see an Incra rep soon, tell him/her to send out catalogs when people request them! smile.gif

[ 07-11-2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: George ]

[Rick Leet]

I haven't found to much stuff made in the US. Like I said before I have two Ford PU's - They were made in Mexico. To get parts for them you HAVE TO KNOW THE MONTH THEY WERE BORN plus the year. My '95 has a 5speed in it and that is a junk Mazda Trans. I tend to agree the next vehicle will be an import (Tundra?). H### my new saw is an import (Jet). As far as demo's are concerned I got an invite to a Shop Smith demo at Lowe's a while back, and while a Shop Smith does not trip my trigger, I have to say I was really impressed with the demo the Factory Guys put on. Why can't Ridgid do things like that - I stood there and watched them sell 3 Shop Smiths that quick - couldn't Ridgid do that, their products are just as good if not better! I think Ridgid and the Big Box just want to blame each other for their own stupid non-performance.... Rick - If they want to get me for that statement I'll just introduce them to my new Jet that replaced the Ridgid I was looking at.

[Maurice C.]

When I was in the market to lease a car, I compared american made cars and imports. I really liked the big american SUVs but I could not find a lease payment I could afford. When I asked the dealership why can I get lower lease payments on an import that cost more, he told me that american cars are not as well made and do not retain their value so they had to charge higer payments because the residual value was nowhere what an import would be. This was a GMC dealership. How sad is that?

[Rafael]

George, I always contact woodpecks for Incra support and info, they are freindly and helpful 800-752-0725.
Maurice, the gmc salesman who told you that about leases is either a poor salesman or a fool; leases are negotiable, extremely negotiable. The lease price they tell you up front is the most profitable for the dealer and leasing company. You can negotiate the interest rate and the residual value. The higher the residual value, the lower the lease payment, however, if you want to purchase the vehicle at the end of the lease then the higher residual hurts you.

[Dave Arbuckle]

The higher the residual value, the lower the lease payment, however, if you want to purchase the vehicle at the end of the lease then the higher residual hurts you.

Um......yeah. ;) No one is going to offer a closed-end lease with a residual higher than they expect the vehicle will be worth. If they would, I would ask for a residual $15 less than sticker and give the car back at the end.

Cars with historically higher resale certainly have lower lease payments. Check the payments on a $45,000 Mercedes and a $45,000 Navigator.

Dave

[Dae]

I went to Home Depot today to get some wood for a patio I'm building and can tell you that the wood at HD is junk (knots, chipped, wet and moldy)! While I was there, I noticed that the Skil Circular saw box said it was "Made in USA." Since I needed a new circular saw and this was made here, I picked it up. I know there's proberbly lots, if not all parts made over seas, but atleast it keeps some assembly jobs here. It might also be a cheap saw but I don't and won't be using it much and I felt it was better to get a saw made here then a something else like a Craftsman in the same price range made outside the US. BTW, I ended up going to Lowes to get wood. It was the same price and compared to HD's wood, it was like gold. I also found out that the service at Lowes is much better. At HD, the associates just looked at me and stood around talking to each other. At Lowes, when the guy saw me going thru the wood, he came over to help me find the better pieces. Then another guy came to help. Wahoo, they went thru stacks of wood for me. Then when I didn't have enough good wood from what they went thru, they blocked off the area and got a fork lift to get another stack from the top of the racks. Now that's service. I only wish now that they open a Lowes closer by. I've got 2 HD's within a 4 mile radius, but Lowes is a good 15 miles away.

- Dae

[Mike3206]

American made cars have lower trade in values in the last several years because of all the rebates and incentives being offered. the rebates don't reflect on the quality of the car, but rather the need for a company to keep it's American workers employed. if you think about it, the $2K discount that your getting when new will lower the resale by about that much. So, when you go turn in that car, it seems like the import hold it's value better.


Dae,
You've found an exception IMO. All the Lowes around me consistantly have worse looking lumber than HD. What really gets me is when they can sell a twisted and very knotty board and call it #1 grade prime (like they're talking beef) :mad:

[Jimmy62]

The bottom line is GREED, the companies like Ridgid want not just a piece of the pie they want it all. I work in manufacturing (chemical plant) every year we loose more and more benifits. Yet the top officers of the corporation get paid millions. I agree that times are changing from manufacturing to service jobs. But look at the pay people get compared to what the good old union manufacturing jobs that are leaving payed. The bottom line is the goverment wants two classes of people the upper rich class and the poor class. And when are children are running fiber optic cable in that Texas office for $12.00 per hour they won't have to worry about which table saw they want...they will be to concerned with wanting to eat!!! I buy American made or assembled products to insure American jobs.I am not a union person I am a salary person...with a degree in electrical engineering. Keep in mind these union manufacturing jobs elevate a certain standard of living that is leaving this country and thats not good for any one.And the people that say they can't find American products are using that for a excuse...look on the intranet.....there are clothes, cars, elcctronic products, food all kinds of stuff made here, but you have to get out of Walmart to find them. I think the stockholders and the corporate execs have stuffed there pockets long enough thats start looking out for us the American worker buy spending a couple more bucks on products to keep our jobs here.


KEEP YOUR HEAD UP AND SMILE!!!

[Mark IV]

Originally posted by Jimmy62:
The bottom line is GREED...{snip} a certain standard of living that is leaving this country and thats not good for any one... (cut) looking out for us the American worker The irony is that you're accusing the corp of looking out for its own interest, when you think they should be looking out for yours.

Just different sides (and maybe scales) of the greed coin, wouldn't you say?

As for the "government" wanting two classes, rich and poor... this axe is too blunt for me to grind.

If you are really able find logic to support that, why wouldn't the "government" want just one class... the rich?

(Actually, they do. That's why our system allows the average guy more chances to get rich[er] by working smarter, or working his a$$ off, than any other system in the world. Or do our boatloads of American refugees trying to get into Cuba, England, China, and elsewhere, convince you otherwise?)

Corporate criminals suck and should be prosecuted, fined, and/or imprisoned. And they are... probably not often enough, but neither are car thieves and drug dealers.

Here's a story: At our beloved HD :D , I saw a display for "US Made" American flags. Most of you probably saw the same set, with aluminum pole and plastic eagle. It was the only US made flag in the store at the time.

I impulse-bought it and put it up. I was ashamed before I got down off the ladder. It is the worst POS I could imagine, an insult to every American, especially those who have seen combat to keep that flag up. In three months the cheap polyester thing turned orange, started disintegrating, and the plastic tie wraps that hold the flag to the pole began poking holes in the flag itself with the wind.

The only reason they sold pallets of that flagrag is because of the Made in USA on the box at the checkout counter. Buying it for that reason, subsidized cr@p.

Caveat emptor, my fault for going bottom dollar, I guess (you actually have to research an American flag purchase?). But if you keep buying, say, Oldsmobiles because they're American, instead of because they're the best value, then we are doomed in the world economy that you seem to think our "government" invented to eliminate the middle class.

[Rafael]

Greed,or something similar, is the reason. But me and many other folks here know that ridgid did a poor job of marketing and merchandising. Like I said before, no matter where they make their products they still will not sell well if nothing else changes. My guess is nothing else will change until management is changed. Even ryobi can be found outside of HD, not much, but some. Say what you want about ryobi tools, but the management knows how to get stuff sold.

[daveferg]

Mark IV----if you REALLY knew about manufacturing and quality, you'd know it sure wasn't the American workers who chose to cut corners on the quality of that flag kit! Decissions on quality of materials is made by managment. Decissions on how much quality control inspection is done, is made by management. Oversight of the work being done by labor, is done by management. To site an example----it wasn't that long ago that American auto makers blamed the poor quality of their cars on the work ethics of their workforce.

Strangely enough, Toyota, Honda and I think, Nissan, have all built plants in America, using American labor----they have continued to maintain their high quality standards with American labor----only the managment system changed!!

There is no question, however, that evidence of a two-class society can certainly be argued based on the fact that the mfg. jobs leaving this country, were certainly higher paid than the service and support jobs which have come about to fill the gap.

[Mark IV]

I REALLY do know about manufacturing and quality, because that's what I do.

PLEASE don't try to put me in the "American workers are no good" box. I haven't said that and never would. Doesn't sound like you read the whole post.

The point (which was clearly made) is that buying American, solely because it is American, is not the right thing to do. It doesn't help America or American workers. It subsidizes cr@p. I didn't say all American products are cr@p. I said don't subsidize the ones that are.

Neither Ridgid, nor the government, invented the world economy. If some American companies choose not to compete in it, and place the product's country of origin above quality and value, they will get what they deserve. They should not get the business with inferior merchandise just because it was Made in the USA.

If you want to turn the flag example into some kind of management vs. worker thing, you are spinning your wheels. Jimmy says he will spend a couple more bucks to buy American.

I say, buy American when it is competitive. When it's not competitive, ask why, and fix that. It is sometimes management (most management works butt off to be the best, in my experience), sometimes our tax code and regulatory weight, and sometimes other things.

There 5 billion or so other people in the world economy who are going to base their buying decisions on value for the money, period. That isn't going to change and American companies need to provide that value.

[Mark IV]

Originally posted by daveferg:
There is no question, however, that evidence of a two-class society can certainly be argued based on the fact that the mfg. jobs leaving this country, were certainly higher paid than the service and support jobs which have come about to fill the gap. No Question? The Bureau of Labor Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1988/05/art1exc.htm) begs to differ.

Where is all this "evidence"?

The "middle class" itself is kind of hard to measure, and the so-called decline of the middle class has been partly a result of the middle moving up to the "upper class", generally considered a good thing.

Increases in the "lower class" have been partly a result of immigration. Immigrants have typically taken lower paying jobs, and at least initially have higher birth rates (http://www.lif.org/health/teen_preg.html) .

The "shrinking" of the middle class is overstated to begin with, not all bad news by any means, and not necessarily the result of manufacturing jobs going overseas. Service economies include six-figured technicians and programmers as well as burger flippers.

By any standard, between 60 and 70% of the "two-class society" that the evidence allegedly points to, are in the middle class. Many manufacturing "workers" are middle class as well, it's not just management.

And back to Ridgid: if the change to Ryobi was really a result of tooling disputes with Sears, is any of this blather relevant?
If Emerson/Ridgid is so poor at marketing, why is their plumbing and HVAC product so successful? And why isn't IT exclusively available through HD?
We can't know why the HD connection was so poor, but maybe it just kept a lid on the simmering controversy and legal wrangling about tooling, patents, etc.

The issue isn't really about American jobs moving overseas, but about what becomes of the Ridgid WW product plan. There is more to the story than meets the eye, and class jealousy may not contribute much to understanding it.

[daveferg]

Well----you can bend whatever figures you like about jobs going overseas, vs. what's replacing them, but the fact remains that mfg. jobs---the one's where workers made "middle class" wages, are leaving and the one's that are created are highly skewed towards lower hourly wages.

Whether you intedended it or not, you rant about the flag kit certainly sounded like a condemation of American labor---a cry I heard all too often just before a company moved it's factory overseas.

And, if that product is poor, it is managment's fault. All you have to do is read any book on quality management to know why.

But I will agree that this is a tangent compared to what happened with Emerson/Ridgid. I think you put your finger on one big problem----if Ridgid's plumbing and HVAC tools were exclusive to HD and these lines were successful----it points to a problem with HD, which Ridgid should have corrected with better field rep/merchandiser programs/commitment.