Checking Soldered Joints

[rommy]

I am doing a bathroom remodel. I needed to move the copper supply lines over so that they would match up in the new cabinets I ordered.

I soldered all the joints (using the sweat method). I put temporary caps on the ends so that I can drywall and install the cabinets. And have turned the water supply back on (on Saturday).

Here is my delema... I am not sure if I have a solid seal. There is air still in the line from when I opened the lines and so water is not on all the joints.

I am assuming that I have good joints as I think that the air molecules are smaller than water molecules, so if I had a leak, the air would have seaped out and then the water would also be leaking.

I have asked at the local Home Improvement store if my theory is correct and I am not sure they really understand my question.

Can you please tell me if my theory is correct or if I should remove the caps and put valves on and run the complete test.

Thanks in advance for your response.

[ToUtahNow]

rommy,

If you have a leak the air would have leaked out in the area you soldered and you would have water on the floor.

It is not unusual to have air trapped in the line but copper which leaks will leak air as easily as water. You could try and open all of your tub valves and fixtures to bleed air.

Chance are if you still have air in the lines and no visible water on the floor your pipes are not leaking.

Mark

[rommy]

Thank you very much for your quick response. I really appreciate it. I feel that I can coverup the walls (drywall) and feel secure that there is no leak.

[plumbdog10]

If it's on for a couple of days, like you indicated you are alright. But if this was a "turn it on and drywall" I would be concerned.

A couple of hundred years ago, when I was an apprentice, we used to turn the water on and check for leaks. If none showed in half and hour it was good.

With the fluxes we are forced to use know, I have seen leaks three months later.

Just the truth.

the dog :cool:

[imported_PLUMBER RICK]

dog, bring back the "nokorode" flux. with the proper cleaning of excess flux from a compleated joint, i've never had an issue.

this whole water safe flux started when the fire sprinkler fitters tried to install copper sprinkler systems. they didn't and couldn't properly flush out the lines. therefore as the flux leached into the sprinkler heads, they eventually started to leak.
i havn't seen a copper sprinkler system installed for years. now they use that salmon colored plastic instead.

lead free solder was 1 thing, but this flux sucks.
especially for service work with water in the lines. makes you want to go out and buy a propress. (i had to throw that in.)

rick.

[plumber]

Rick,

You guys have plastic fire sprinkler lines out there? :eek:

I hope there is more to it than your post indicates.

Agreed about the water soluble flux, plus if you flux a joint in humid weather it has to be soldered within minutes or the fitting needs recleaned. It takes away the old school method of fitting for 6 hours and soldering and going home.

[plumbdog10]

Originally posted by plumber:
Rick,

You guys have plastic fire sprinkler lines out there? :eek:

I hope there is more to it than your post indicates.

Agreed about the water soluble flux, plus if you flux a joint in humid weather it has to be soldered within minutes or the fitting needs recleaned. It takes away the old school method of fitting for 6 hours and soldering and going home. Plumber,

I've never seen plastic sprinkler lines. But, I work exclusivly in commercial construction.

Out here fire protection and plumbing are seperate. What I see all the time is Sch. 10 iron pipe with Victolic couplings. I, personally have never seen plastic fire lines. But, as I said, I don't work in residential.

the dog :cool:

[ToUtahNow]

Out here in Los Angeles we had a ordinance named the Dorthy Mae Ordinance which required all older apartment buildings to add Fire Sprinklers. During that period CPVC Fire Spinklers were approved with certain restrictions as to the location of the piping (Fire Rated Soffits). I'm not sure whether they are still using CPVC or not.

Mark

[imported_PLUMBER RICK]

not sure what type of plastic the sprinklers are run in. it's a samon color pipe that comes in a cardbord box. probably 10' lenghts? it has all the ratings on it including the "fm" approvals. i don't believe it's cpvc.
think about the labor savings on installation. especially on retrofit jobs. most local cities are requiring fire sprinkles in new construction of private homes now.
since i don't do fire sprinkler i will have to find out what this newer material is called. it has been around a couple of years as far as i can remember.

rick.

[ToUtahNow]

Rick,

The salmon colored pipe is CPVC piping listed for Fire Sprinklers.

Mark

[AZPlumber]

I am not sure of the specific technical name for the pipe, but here in Alaska the plastic "salmon colored" and other colored pipes are run for fire sprinkler systems in both commercial and residential now. Matter of fact, it's getting hard to see any new construction with anything but anymore.

Far as the flux, I believe it actually started after tests were done showing that, in improperly "flushed" systems prior to service, residues of fluxes such as No-Korode can come out in the potable water and, as such, possibly be even drank by end users, and this theoretically has been shown to cause everything from dental problems to actual poisoning.

Of course, everybody I know hates the stuff, and yes, on many jobs I've seen it used, by very competent plumbers who KNEW how to sweat copper, using high quality fittings and solder, leaks would occur shortly after. The stuff is great for washing off your hands but horrid for sweating pipe. And as I hate to admit it, alot of guys resort to the old trick of buying a tub of water-soluable, emptying it, and re-filling it with No-Korode to "trick" the inspectors. :rolleyes:

[imported_Bob D.]

"Far as the flux, I believe it actually started after tests were done showing that, in improperly "flushed" systems prior to service, residues of fluxes such as No-Korode can come out in the potable water and, as such, possibly be even drank by end users, and this theoretically has been shown to cause everything from dental problems to actual poisoning."

I had heard these tales too, but to date have no evidence to back them up. Not saying it is not possible, this has always been a concern of mine with regard to potable water systems and solder flux.

Here's a link to Rectorseal's website with MSDS information on their products. I'm not singling out Rectorseal here as the bad guy, their products are popular in the trade and as such are used by many. No doubt other manufacturers have similar information on the web or at the least it should be available for the asking from your supplier.

http://www.rectorseal.com/webcatindex.htm

[plumber]

The water soluble flux is required here as well. Unfortunately many inspectors turn a blind eye towards the use of the "old good stuff".

So, has someone invented a cpvc that will not melt during a hot building fire? If the supply pipe melts how is that going to allow water to get out to the heads in order to keep the fire from spreading?

[plumber]

Nice Link. Thanks Bob D..

[ToUtahNow]

plumber,

As far as I am concerned it is a bad systme but it has been in use for 20-years without anyone calling to put an end to it. Generally the jobs I have seen the pipes are installed in a fire rated soffit with I believe a 1-hour rating.

We looked at it once on a building which was a retro-fit but decided the cost of the soffits made it more expensive than steel.

Mark

[AZPlumber]

"The water soluble flux is required here as well. Unfortunately many inspectors turn a blind eye towards the use of the "old good stuff"."

UN-fortunately?? I would say that's quite fortunate actually. Some inspectors are turning a "blind eye" to it here too, and for, in my opinion, good reason.

As Bob D. astutely observed, to date I do not believe there is ANY hard evidence linking fluxes such s No-Korode to medical ailments. I can see it happening if a plumber just gobbed the stuff on his joints with a putty knife and then did'nt flush the system out at all before putting in service, but that's bad technique/work anyway. I know that most of the flux I apply burns off while sweating, and I always flush systems out well before giving actual service. I regard the new water-solubale rules as a knee jerk reaction by government to what could THEORETICALLY be viewed as a "problem". Until someone can actually show me verifiable and undeniable proof that very small amounts of No-Korode residues can cause such alarmist consequences I don't buy it.

On most residential repair jobs and boiler (hydronic) jobs with larger diameter lines (over 1") here guys still use No-Korode religiously. It's embarrassing to have spent years sweating pipe without leaks to suddenly looking like a schmuck who can't solder a joint using this new water soluable garbage. Just my opinion.

And thanks also for that link Bob D., very handy.

[plumber]

AZPlumber,

The use of standard flux is acceptable on hydronic lines here. The potable water supply is protected from the boiler lines by either an RPZ or a double check device(depending on several circumstances on which is used) both are required to be tested and certified once a year for proper working tolerances.

I can see where water standing in seldom used lines could be contaminated with excess flux, though simply letting ones water run for a minute or so would flush out any "bad" water. Look at how much flux is on your wiping rag at the end of an hours worth of work. The same amount of flux can also run along the inside of the pipe as well and that does not get wiped off, which was the reason for the water soluble flux.

While everyone agrees the standard NoKorode was the gold standard for soldering pastes, the water soluble can work for new construction if we alter our methods just a little.

We are going to be running about a thousand feet of three inch K this week. (L if the change is approved) We will not be able to fit more than a few joints at a time with the new flux or there will be leaks. In years past I could put three guys cutting and fitting and let one guy follow up with the torch. With the new flux it is two guys cutting and fitting and one with a torch. A bit more down time and slower production.

I am mixed about the new flux, I would certainly not just rinse out a flux jar and then use it for a water cup. By the same token I have no qualms about running the water through my copper pipes for a few moments and then drinking it.

[AZPlumber]

Hi Plumber, and thanks for your response.

What I meant by hydronic systems, was here we are installing many new boiler/water heater replacement jobs with new Burnhams with Amtrol type hot water makers side by side (if the customer wants a new boiler but also has an old cruddy looking water heater we try and sell them the combo, nice system and no worries afterwards)...anyway all the copper on these systems including the lines going into and out of the "Amtrol" and servicing the structure otherwise until they reduce down to various fixtures are sweat with No-Korode if they are larger than 3/4", as the water soluable has shown to be difficult to work with on lines larger than that. Anyway, it's fine, as long as it's not new construction, in which case they insist on using water soluable though many inspectors locally don't seem to care or check that anymore.

Your point about it being difficult to prepare your joints first and then torching later is an excellent one and yet another problem with the water soluable garbage. I have found that if the joint is'nt soldered within about 5 to 10 minutes after applying it, it will start to actually turn green on the pipe and it won't allow an easily soldered joint with good solder flow. If it's necessary to wait longer, it seems it's good policy to re-flux the joint which as you said is time consuming and labor-intensive. The stuff is just bad news all around IMO. The chemical companies need to devise a better product if we are to be forced to use the junk. And in cold weather, I just refuse to use anything other than No-Korode's Cold Weather flux, it's the only thing that really works and applies easily in my experience when working in extreme cold.

Surely, if the regular flux is so harmful, all us who have been sweating copper with it and smelling the fumes and getting it on our hands etc etc etc for YEARS should all be dead or close to it right about now. I don't know about you, but I still feel pretty healthy, and so do some 80 year old retaired plumbers I know who have used the stuff since before I even knew what solder was. But I digress I suppose.

[ToUtahNow]

One of the big problems with the old flux was guys would not flush the lines properly. I've taken pipe samples out of ten year old buildings which still had globs of flux inside of them.

Mark

[imported_Bob D.]

I'm with Mark on this. We are our own worse enemy with regard to flux. I think that if everyone was more careful about how much flux they used and to clean up (flush lines until clean) we might not be having to use water-soluble flux now.

Excess heat and flux is not a substitute for skill and proper use of tools or materials.

A monkey can be taught to gob on the flux and heat the joint until the solder melts, and he would have as much of a chance at a leak-proof joint as some of todays so-called 'mechanics'.

[AZPlumber]

I don't even understand how some guys CAN gob flux on joints and still decently sweat it. Extreme excess flux on lines tends to burn and contaminate the joint with related burn-off by-products. But too little flux, especially in cold weather conditions, poses it's own problems.

Far as flux remaining within in-service lines after 10 years, that's incredible. I can't even imagine how that's possible without literally gobbing the stuff by the pound on joints. Not saying it's impossible, but one would think after 10 years worth of usage it would have flushed out by now.

I've found that when using easy-melt solders such as Sterling's "Taramet" or ones like Dutch Boy's 95-5 tends to work better with water soluable flux. The harder solders to flow, like Bridg-It, are more difficult to make work with that flux since it seems to tend to burn off easier. Rather much like substituting propane gas for MAPP when sweating hydronic baseboard lines since those lines tend to be much thinner than regular Type L and the MAPP burns too hot for such work.

[plumber]

You guys hit it on the head regarding the guys who pile on the flux. I've watched plumbers with 25 and 30 years experience globbing on the stuff like they were buttering bread. The thing about some of the old timers is their heads are harder than bricks when comes to listening to suggestions. Bob D. is absolutely correct when he said some plumbers are their own worst enemy.

However there really does not need to be alot of flux inside a fitting for the flux to stay for a long time. If the piping system is over sized then there is simply not enough volume to properly flush the line no matter how long you let it run or it stays in service.

Also the Contractors and Generals often push for production and partial completions in such a manner that prevent crews from performing full flow flushing for any period of time. More than once I've heard the statement "I don't care" from a contractor when told about the need to flush or decontaminate a line. Of course when something happens the first thing out of their mouths is "I don't know why they didn't flush the lines."

I've also seen contractors send out filthy pipe for use on a potable water system that I wouldnt let a dog drink out of. I refuse to install it, unfortunatly in todays world there are a lot of hungry plumbers who will wipe off the outside of the pipe and hang it just to get a paycheck.

[AZPlumber]

"Also the Contractors and Generals often push for production and partial completions in such a manner that prevent crews from performing full flow flushing for any period of time. More than once I've heard the statement "I don't care" from a contractor when told about the need to flush or decontaminate a line. Of course when something happens the first thing out of their mouths is "I don't know why they didn't flush the lines."

I've also seen contractors send out filthy pipe for use on a potable water system that I wouldnt let a dog drink out of. I refuse to install it, unfortunatly in todays world there are a lot of hungry plumbers who will wipe off the outside of the pipe and hang it just to get a paycheck."


Excellent post and you, sir, also hit the nail right on it's head.

The problem really lies with contractors and plumbing firms who, as you astutely pointed out, push push and push their guys to produce, they'll even be proud to call themselves a "fast paced shop" and will keep pushing their guys to get done so that the inspector can do his worthless little thing and pass it all and they can get their loot and move on to the next sucker. I lay most of the blame where it belongs...with greedy, hurry hurry contractors who don't train their guys, push them to the point of doing unsafe and unacceptable work standards, and don't give them enough time to properly finish jobs, such as flushing lines thoroughly. It's good to see that someone else actually recognizes that such practices go on in the less than savory contracting businesses.

They'll typically come in, give a low-ball bid on a job just so they can get it and push out competition, then pass on all the stress of getting it done under the bid's deadline onto the employee plumber, who, trying to please his boss and make another paycheck to support his family, will just start slapping things together without care to get out of there. While I applaud any plumber who might stand up against such practices, I can't blame anybody either, in this time of year, for doing what it takes to hold onto a job when they have a family to support, so I lay most blame on contractors, especially the non-union shops, though unions are going the way of the owners these days as well.

I've seen not only dirty potable water lines get hung as you describe, but just about everything else including gas lines too.

In today's business environment and construction fields, quality is not of paramount importance anymore when they are throwing up entire homes and office buildings in less than a week. Production is, and that's why we are getting burdened down with so many ridiculous codes such as the water soluable garbage....it's impossible to monitor every fly by nite plumbing outfit out there, and everybody from customers to the contractor himself are only worried about the bottom line, so we need Big Gummint to step in and treat us all like children and force us to do things the safe way.

[ 11-09-2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: AZPlumber ]

[buoychaser]

How do you test these hydronic lines when attached to the boiler? I can't seem to find a "test gauge" locally anywhere, but told instead to build my own.

Any tips to check for leaks?

[Scott K]

Don't you guys do a 200 PSI leak test? Pump up your water system to 200 PSI to see if it holds? (if it holds 200 PSI - there is no reason it should leak later). This is required up where I live by inspectors to pass a water line rough in.

Also - what is so bad about the new, lesser acidic, water based fluxes? If you clean the ends of your pipe with sand/emory cloth, clean the fittings, and add a reasonable bit of flux to the inside of the fitting and the male end of the pipe and you have a basic understanding of how to solder, you shouldn't see leaks period. The flux I use is made by Kesters usually.

[Bob D.]

Man, you guys brought this one back from the dead huh?

200 PSI Leak test on a residential boiler? Please let me know before you start OK. I want to be sure I am not inside when this occurs. I am not sure about the newer boilers but I never tested a cast iron boiler to 200 PSI.

Of course we didn't have all the choices available 105 years ago (I started 5 years before the Dog) when I was an apprentice :) , it was CI or nothing. Coal was cheap and the boilers were about 25% efficient too.

[Hondahead]

(if it holds 200 PSI - there is no reason it should leak later). This is required up where I live by inspectors to pass a water line rough in.

NPC 3.7.2 1b

withstand for at least 2hr without a drop in pressure an air pressure that is not less than 700kPa (100psi)

This clause applies to potable water piping, but it is the same for non potable water piping aswell. I wouldn't put 200psi on a boiler either. I've never had an inspector ask me to air test a boiler,thats ridiculous,:eek: and I doubt its required. The only piping we air test is inslab radiant panel, everything else is hydro tested.:)

[PLUMBER RICK]

Don't you guys do a 200 PSI leak test? Pump up your water system to 200 PSI to see if it holds? (if it holds 200 PSI - there is no reason it should leak later). This is required up where I live by inspectors to pass a water line rough in.

Also - what is so bad about the new, lesser acidic, water based fluxes? If you clean the ends of your pipe with sand/emory cloth, clean the fittings, and add a reasonable bit of flux to the inside of the fitting and the male end of the pipe and you have a basic understanding of how to solder, you shouldn't see leaks period. The flux I use is made by Kesters usually.


well compared to "nokorode" it's night and day.

the water soluable fluxes suck:eek: try using them doing any repair work that still has moisture:rolleyes:

they will not allow you to solder the next day either.

lead free solder, ok:confused:

acid free/ water soluable flux:p :eek:

my understanding is that when the fire sprinkler fitters started to use copper for their systems, the lack of flushing and lack of proper soldering skills, caused the flux remaining in the system to eat away at the sprinkler head orfices. this caused leakage and hence the code changes:eek:

the only half way decent flux that i use is "everflux" but it still sucks on any wet piping.

now i use propress for the tricky stuff.

rick.

[Scott K]

NPC 3.7.2 1b

withstand for at least 2hr without a drop in pressure an air pressure that is not less than 700kPa (100psi)

This clause applies to potable water piping, but it is the same for non potable water piping aswell. I wouldn't put 200psi on a boiler either. I've never had an inspector ask me to air test a boiler,thats ridiculous,:eek: and I doubt its required. The only piping we air test is inslab radiant panel, everything else is hydro tested.:)

I understand the code clause very well, I just wrote my Plumbing Inter Provincial Red Seal exam last Friday. I have the new 2005 Canadian National Code on me right now. But in BC, despite the code clause (also remember the Canadian code is different in a few aspects when compared to each provinces amended codes however our code does not have different potable water pipe testing methods with respect to the code clause you cited), it is an unwritten rule in the Lower Mainland (read: Vancouver and suburbs) that you either a water pipe test where you pump up the water pipe to 200 PSI for the inspector to pass (with water), or an air test in freezing conditions to 100 PSI. Either is acceptable. The bottom line is if it holds 200 PSI of water, it shouldn't have any leaks at operating pressure which is typically 50-55 PSI after the PRV in most homes.

As for a boilers -we wouldn't pump up a boiler system to 200 PSI, just like we wouldn't pump up the pipe between the shower head/spout and the diverter -that just gets line/operating pressure and then we close the integrals and pump up the rest of the system.

[plumbdog10]

Man, you guys brought this one back from the dead huh?

200 PSI Leak test on a residential boiler? Please let me know before you start OK. I want to be sure I am not inside when this occurs. I am not sure about the newer boilers but I never tested a cast iron boiler to 200 PSI.

Of course we didn't have all the choices available 105 years ago (I started 5 years before the Dog) when I was an apprentice :) , it was CI or nothing. Coal was cheap and the boilers were about 25% efficient too.

I'm with Bob here. Even domestic plumbing systems are not tested to 200psi, because equipment involved is not rated for that type of pressure. In a heating or cooling system (Hydronic) there are numerous pieces of equipment (control valves, coils, balancing valves, etc.) that are not rated for that kind of pressure.

[Hondahead]

where you pump up the water pipe to 200 PSI for the inspector to pass (with water)

This must be just for copper? Most pex products are only rated to about 150psi @ 70F.

[HVAC HAWK]

why do you need to test so high .
the working pressure of a boiler 10 to 20 lbs and the relief valve is set for 32 lbs. a copper tube boiler for domestic water or for swimming pools the pressure is a lot higher .

even a copper boiler should not be tested more then 150.

when i test my cast iron boilers i plug off the relief valve and then test piping and all at 1 1/2 times the working pressure .

that's my 2 cents

[Scott K]

This must be just for copper? Most pex products are only rated to about 150psi @ 70F.

IT's 200 PSI for all domestic water lines i.e. potable water that is supplied to a house for drinking/bathing/crapping purposes - this is the rough in water test.

Anything with equipment that could be damaged or a relief valve that could go off never sees a 200 PSI test (including hot water tanks), just normal operating pressure. This 200 PSI test is for anything piping wise in the walls, as you can't see leaks behind the walls. Anything outside of the walls, if it leaks, will be seen and can be repaired. So you ask - why 200 PSI? I say "WHY NOT?"

If your water lines hold a 200 PSI test then you can go home at night and soundly sleep as a plumbing contrator knowing that you won't have any issues with leaking in behind walls (unless of course someone hits it with a nail or something like that). The other thing is with a 200 PSI water test - you leave our system pumped up until you go to do finishing. Then you usually drain it through a laundry box (albeit slowly/carefully). And you know for a fact that if a drywaller hits one of your water lines with a screw, he's gonna know darn sure what he hit make no mistake (why you leave it pumped up - so you can backcharge accordingly).

This 200 PSI test is standard for inspectors where I live even though it is not described in our codes, whether you're talking about underground Ductile Iron lines coming into the building (the water service) or any water distrubtion lines (pex, copper, kitec, or other) in the place that are part of the rough in. You usually do the test through a laundry tray so you can tie the hot and cold together for the test.

[HVAC HAWK]

i don't have the data to back me up [ i will look for it ] but if you put to much pressure on a pipe that you will put some stress on a fitting and will cause a leak now or down the road .

i have had a copper fitting with just flux hold 60 to 80 pounds water pressure, figure that one out .

[PLUMBER RICK]

i don't have the data to back me up [ i will look for it ] but if you put to much pressure on a pipe that you will put some stress on a fitting and will cause a leak now or down the road .

i have had a copper fitting with just flux hold 60 to 80 pounds water pressure, figure that one out .

not with the new flux:eek:

when propress first came out here to the usa, there were plumbers that forgot to crimp a joint and it would hold as long as there was no movement beyound the joint depth. typically 3/4''- 1.5''. the joint would not leak since the oring made the seal. problem was the fitting could pull out and you would have a flood down the road:eek:

for the last couple of years the fittings have come with a small nick built into the fitting next to the oring. this will now cause a small leak if not crimped. all you have to do is make sure the fitting is pushed in all the way and crimp. no need to shut or drain the system:)

rick.

[Scott K]

i don't have the data to back me up [ i will look for it ] but if you put to much pressure on a pipe that you will put some stress on a fitting and will cause a leak now or down the road .

i have had a copper fitting with just flux hold 60 to 80 pounds water pressure, figure that one out .

The only thing I know if in regard to what you have posted is if you're doing a drainage test on Cast Iron with Mechanical Joints. When you fill it up with water you shouldn't leave it filled too long as the head/pressure on the joints isn't good for the neoprene gaskets in behind the Stainless steel bands for too long. That's why in our code it specs 10 feet of head for 15 minutes is all it has to hold.

I hardly doubt that 200 PSI is enough to make a difference in the long run considering it's not held for very long when you consider the age of the piping system. When you consider the consequences of doing a mild test of 60-80 PSI and the joint holding and then one day mysteriously leaking behind a wall and the costs associated with it? Think about it this way. Which method covers your arse, as a Plumber more? Doing the 200 PSI test and finding the leaks righta way, or doing a 60-80 PSI test and it leaking down the road? Even if a 200 PSI test compromises the life of the system to one extent or another, you know that when you are finished plumbing it, it won't leak, and it'll last long enough that any leaks down the road can be construed as an aged system in need of a repipe - not something you did or could be faulted for. Especially when you consider that it's the inspectors, where I live, who require a 200 PSI test. Therefore it's THEIR fault, not you, the Plumber/Plumber contractor. They are the ones who ask me to do it, for their peace of mind, as they are responsible at the end of the day for ensuring compliance with plumbing codes and standards and things like that. The only thing my plumbing company is requried to do is provide a 2 year warranty.Now I'm not suggesting just squeezing by the 2 year warranty as you should strive to do quality work and I would hope my work lasts a very long time.

[HVAC HAWK]

[/B]not with the new flux:eek:



in pa we can still use the older flux [ for now ]

they sell the water base stuff but i use the other

[drtyhands]

Scott K,

Rest easy,one of the largest production plumbing contractors in our area uses his hydro-static pump, which actualy has a thumping action,to crank his rough plumbing copper(before anything mechanical or otherwise is connected to the system) to 350 lbs.

He has done this on over 4000 homes with no evidence of damaging pipe or fittings.

The reason is a mostly because the big money developer usually doesn't provide water to the building until he absolutely has to.

The corrosive flux is a pain for sure.And his employee's try and test when feasable.But leave to some other trade to open a valve or put a nail or screw into the pipe to drop the pressure.

On my stuff I use CO-2 to push 300 with water in the system then go around the system beating the fittings & pipe.Not like crazy, but you know what I mean.I'm gonna do all I can to get this flux to leak in the rough so I don't have to remodel my customers 65,000 dollar kitchen.

2 year warranty,your employer is lucky,down here the contractors are liable for 10 years.

[Bogart]

Excess flux washes out of hot water lines. It's like vaseline. It will stay in cold lines forever, unless you can backflush hot water thru them.

[Newman]

On the subject of fluxes, any of you guys use the tinning fluxes like Oatey #95 as your regular flux?

[PLUMBER RICK]

On the subject of fluxes, any of you guys use the tinning fluxes like Oatey #95 as your regular flux?

no,no, & no.:eek:

everflux:D:rolleyes:

rick.

[Bogart]

No-Korrode winter formula, year round. One contractor I worked for used the tinning flux, I never cottoned to it.

[Australian Plumber Josh]

today i had to solder a couple of awkward joints. only because they were really close to an existing soldered joint i didnt want to disturb.

definitely a different technique involved and i held my breath turning the water back on. No problems, but for someone who brazes everything they can i found a new appreciation for the old solder. Who was i to doubt a tried and true method.

i guess it comes down to familiarity more than anything.