Calling all electricians - I NEED HELP

[woodworkerjake]

I have 2 nice powertools that I've been running on low amperage wires unknowingly for a while. I saw a 15 amp extension cord at HD and I purchased it. My tools had more OOMPF from the startup. Very good.

Then I started blowing fuses. Blew 2 times to be exact. I went into box and opened to check amperage rating. ENTIRE BOX has 10 amp fuses GGGGGGGG. It's a 25 year old house with the one switch box in the basement with resettable fuses. I don't want to run my tools underpower and I don't want to keep blowing fuses.

How big a deal is this to fix. Can I do anything myself or should I get an electrician. How much do you think this would cost.

Thanks a bunch
:confused: :mad: :confused:
Jake

[woodworkerjake]

update.

Box is not all 10 amp fuses. Box has circuit brekaers ranging from 15 - 50. My entire basement is under 1 15 amp fuse. I blew it out while running a boom box radio and 4 - 75 watt bulbs. Anyone know what I should be looking to do to correct?

Jake

[imported_RealProTek]

What is the gauge of the wires in your house?

[lizard35]

First of all Im not a licenced electrician, but do know quite a bit about the electron flow. To start off, when you say you have 10amp resettable fuse. Do you mean a circuit breaker and not a pull out fuse type. Im not sure they even make a 10 amp circuit breaker. 15amp is the norm and then 20 depending on your load. It's fairly easy to wire a individul circuit by replacing the current circuit breaker with a larger one, providing the wiring is able to handle that load. I.e., a 15 amp circuit needs 14awg wire while a 20amp needs a 12awg wire. The wire should have a gauge stamp on the wire every few inches. If it's neither then you may have to fishe a new wire thru from the circuit breaker to your receptacle. If you just need a 110 volt source only 3 wires are needed but if you want to have a 220 volt then you need 4 wires. If you go to HD talk to one of the electrical guys, most are very knowledgable and they usually have atleast one licenced or previously electrician employed at each HD. They could recommened all the supplies needed, they also have a few good books there, wiring 1 2 3. That book has a lot of usful info and lots of pics to help exlpain the procedures. If all else fails you may need a electrician. It shouldn't cost more then 70 bucks for his hour's work plus whatever the supplies fee they charge. Or you can have the supplies ready for him from HD.

Hope I didn't ramble on too much. Please feel free to email or reply with any clarification

[woodworkerjake]

Yep, they circuit breakers and are over 15 amps and higher. There was a 10 next to each switch and someone from another site directed me to look at switch handles. They list amperage on the end of switches.

However I still have my entire basement wired off one 15 amp fuse. All outlets including my basement lights. Is this bad? What should I have? I'm not very knowledgable in electricity except that I should turn on the switch and the difference between 220 and 110.

appreciate the guestimate of cost to rewire. 70 bucks isnt' that bad. I may give him a call tomorrow.

Jake

[NUGGY]

Jake,

If you could determine the size of circuit wire then probably you can change the fuse size. The thing to know is that the fuse has to protect the wire. If the wire is #14 you can use 15A fuse. If the wire is #12 then you can use 20A fuse.
If you can't determine the wire size then hire a reputable electrician.

[woodworkerjake]

Is there a way I can do that without zapping myself? I have zinged myself once or twice with the outlet. Not a big fan. something about the muscles in my forearm tightening til they feel they're gonna rip off my bone isn't one of my favorites.. LOL

I've never messed with a utility box before but I am semi handy. Whatcha think?

Jake

[woodworkerjake]

Almost forgot. If I were to swap this fuse out with a 20 amper. Would this cover my needs? or do you think I need a dedicated outlet for different tools / etc. I never am runnign more than one tool at a time. But do have lights & boom box running while I work :D

Biggest motor draws 15 amps on my TS.

Jake

[Gary T. Heller]

Jake, just because your basement is wired off of a 15 amp circuit isn't necessarily a bad thing. If there are only outlets and lights on that paticular circuit, your probably just fine. 1st, identify the wire size on that circuit. Next, identify everything that is fed from the base ment circuit. What appliances are in your basement? Where is your washing machine? Do you have freezer down there?

[lizard35]

Jake, another question is weather there are any free spaces left over in your electrical panel...you would have a metal knockout available if there is free space. This is where you would put in another circuit breaker and wire in another receptacle. This would be the easiest way and give you the desired outlet dedicated for your power tool(s). Again if it's a 15 amp you desire you'll need 14awg wire, just enough to run from the circuit breaker to the new outlet, or if you want 20amps then you'll need 12awg wire. It looks like your probably satisified with 110 vols, then just 3 wires are needed.Let us know if you have an extra space in your panel.

[imported_RealProTek]

You have Romex or Bx? Code is different in each state, town, or village.

[woodworkerjake]

Lots of free spaces. At least 7.

I also just found out we have a 220 volt wire not being used. replaced 220 volt dreyer with a gas dreyer a while back.

Anybody run their tools at 220? Are there any considerations / complications I should consider if that's an option I want to explore.; I know my CS can be wired 220. Not sure about my Delta bandsaw. it's the 28-276.

Jake

[imported_ChrisinMD]

Jake,

I have always found it useful to have lights and tools on sepearate circuit. Blow a fuse and the lights are still on, lights don't dim on every tool use. I added a 20 amp circuit for the tools, 12 gauge wire and 20 amp outlets. The panel is nothing to fool with if you are uncertain of what not to touch. Always be aware of what you are about to touch. If you have the whole house switch in the panel throw it before toching anything. If you touch the wrong thing in the panel it will be more than a little zap! Keep someone around with a piece of 2x4 to shove you off of the panel when you begin to light up lol.

Check around for circuit with very little on them a couple of upstairs lights or outlets. Many times its easier to wire into underutilized circutis if access is easier.

For an electrician just to show up it will be pushing a couple hundred bucks.

Chris

Chris

[imported_RealProTek]

220 is most desirable. :cool:

[woodworkerjake]

I think I'm gonna call electrician. I do need to decide what I want him to do though. 220 wiring or 110? Any suggestions which one everyone would choose and why?

I will be calling him Wednesday so need to know by then.

Jake

[imported_RealProTek]

If you have 220 service, that is good. Keep in mind it will cost you a pretty penny to upgrade to 220. I don't know where 70 bucks came from for an electrician, but I would stay away from one that charges that amount to do what you need done.

If you are going to pay an electrician to split the circut, you will also be looking at shelling out some cash.

Where is the outlet/s you need to power up your tools in relation to the panel?

[lizard35]

Jake, since you have 7 unused spaces, try wiring in 2 circuits one 20 amp for 110 volt, with 12-2 romex and one for 20amp/220volt, with 12-3 romex wire. The feeding of wires behind covered walls will be time consuming but is what an electrician will charge his hours up on. You can do it yourself with a fische tape available at HD. When you get ready to install the new circuit breakers, turn off the main panel breaker if your kinda giddy. A 20amp single pole breaker will be required for for 110 circuit and 20 amp 2 pole for 220 volt. Also be sure to look at your panel for name brand. Not all breakers fit all panels. It could be almost any thing if it's 25 years old. A siemens breaker is the most universal type and fits most older panels, i.e. sylvania, cuttler hammer, general electic. Your local HD can help you get the right stuff.

[lizard35]

Jake, It looks like you decided to go with an electrician. 70 bucks is the standard hourly charge here in Oregon. If you have the supplies ready and run the wire yourself, you could be saving 2 hours extra labor. Plus they usually charge 35-65 percent markup on parts, which you can easily get from HD. Hope this clears up the 70 bucks for an electrician charge.

[woodworkerjake]

LUckily my outlet is right next to the circuit breaker. I mean within inches.. lol. Wall is unfinished. My shop is in the corner of the basement by the circuit breaker. We do have one 220 volt wire going up above my shop into the laundry room that is being unused right now. Or we used to. May have incapacitated by a flood we had with freakish rainstorms about 8 years ago.

Jake

[imported_Bob D.]

"Keep someone around with a piece of 2x4 to shove you off of the panel when you begin to light up lol."

In this case I would say no. No because based on your descriptions and your admitted lack of knowledge of working with electricity you WILL end up getting hurt or worse...DEAD.

Hire an electrician. Yes, it will cost more than if you did it yourself, but you will be alive to use the new outlets. Another plus is is something should go wrong with your DIY rewiring, your insurance may not pay for any damage. And when the Fire Dept. shows up, the building inspector will ten know, and you could be fined for not getting the permit and the inspections that insure against just such occurances. Sorry if this all sounds harsh, but this is one area you don't want to fidling with if you dan't have the necessary background to ensure yur own safety and installing the wiring and outlets to code.

No, I am not an electrician, but I work with electrical circuits every day, and I have rewired three homes plus another I built.

Hire an electrician and save a life...maybe yours!

['olCrookedCut]

Jake,
Sounds like it is your choice between using the 220 for your tablesaw or not. I encourage you to have a couple of 20A 120v circuits installed and leave that 15a for the lights and radio. You will never regret having the extra outlets and I noticed a huge difference in saw oomph when I was able to plug directly into a 12 guage 20a outlet.

[imported_RealProTek]

Best and cheapest is lizard35's suggestion. How "finished" is your shop? The walls and ceilings? It is very easy to run new line and put 2 seperate outlets, 15 amp outlets,I used 12-2 wire-with a ground (it's yellow coated wire at HD) and 15 amp breakers designed for your panel. Cut the power to the box (I'm a chicken)normally one big switch or can be a few sistered together-it should be marked. This cuts power to the box. Black (hot-goes to brass screw on plug) and white (neutral-goes to silver on plug) while the bare copper (ground-goes to green screw) The thing that will take you longest is the getting the dang wire in the wall-mine are bare, so it is easy. Pick up a wiring book. It really is easy.

[woodworkerjake]

all advice I'm reading is very helpful

Old crooked cut, I too noticed very noticable UUMPPFFF on my tools. Bandsaw and Contractor saw almost JUMP to their top speed rather than slowly moving up. This whole scenario became noticable when I took a 20 year old utility wire and replaced it with a 15 amp 20 guage wire Sunday. I can't begin to imagine the difference if I rewire everything 220? But if I get better tool performance and life out of it for a couple extra bucks, it's all for good whether I stay 110 or 220. * scratching head *

:confused:

Jake

[imported_RealProTek]

You CAN NOT use 220 VOLT to power up your tools if they are not rated for 220 VOLTS. :eek:

[ 01-26-2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: RealProTek ]

[woodworkerjake]

edit. 15 amp 12 guage. Not 20

:eek:

Jake

[woodworkerjake]

Realpro,

My Contractor saw is wireable either way. Currently 110, but would have electrician rewire if I went this route. Not sure about my bandsaw. Would have to check manual.

Jake

[Bob S]

Realpro
Why are you suggesting 15amp breakers if he runs 12ga wire? Believe 20A would be fine even with only one duplex 15A recptacle. With the short runs he would have I would question the equipment improvement by going to 220v for the saw. Generally it allows you to run smaller wire for greater distance without voltage drop. If his saw is 10 or 15 ft from the panel I don't think drop would be noticeable.

Your last post hit it right on. However judging from the errors in Jakes first handfull of post he probably should not be in the panel, sorry Jake.

[ 01-27-2004, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Bob S ]

[imported_RealProTek]

Here ya go. Keep in mind I do low voltage schtuff-cctv, card access, fingerprint recognition...homeland security type stuff. I just ran next door and talked to my bud, a licensed electrician. Here is what he recommends to make it cheap, safe and simple. He said Hey, it's a shop, surface mount the outlets. Buy 2 bx clamps for panel. Get some greenfield (it's the bx without the wire in it) run 12 gauge wire (one black, white and a ground). Get two 20 amp Circut Breakers. You can look here for the type you need (http://allbreakers.com/) Get surface mounted boxes, couple of outlets, and a face plate. (http://www.capeelectric.com/marion/gsacat/raco/rac5.html) Buy some bx straps and strap the greenfield running right into the surface mounted boxes (back mount boxes to studs). Run it right to your where your tools are. All this stuff you can get at HD for about 80 bucks, tops. He said put in 2 seperate outlets, so you can dedicate one for the machine (plenty good) and another outlet (because your in there) for any additional toys. ;)

[ 01-26-2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: RealProTek ]

[imported_RealProTek]

Bob S, there is no problem having 15amp breakers with 12 gauge wire. But I do stand corrected, 20amp is what you use with 12 gauge. :rolleyes:

[Bob S]

The only thing wrong is that you are overlimiting yourself with 15a. It certainly is safe and legal, however. Much less likely to get a nuisance trip on the 20A especially cranking up a contractor saw or cutting a dense board.

[imported_RealProTek]

Right on Bob. :D

[woodworkerjake]

I agree with bob.

Judging from my first post, I should not put my fingers near a box.. LOL. If I wasn't willing to read and learn. However since I do have other things to do, I will most likely defer to an expert / i.e. electrician.

I do need to know what I should be looking for as final outcome though before I set him to work

Should I go for 220 for my CS. Right now it's the only tool that can run at that voltage that I own, however I will be getting jionter / planer when I get the money. This could be anytime from real soon to long time from now. Well not too long. Jointer / Planer / DC are in my forseeable horizon. If I get 220, should I do 1 now, and 1 later or get a couple set up for expansion. HOW MUCH VALUE WILL I GET FROM RUNNING 220. I alraedy noticed considerable difference just getting a beefier extension cord. Will I get that kindof noticable difference with the 220 as well?

OR

Just get the 20 amp circuits and be done with it.

This house is probably a 2 - 3 year fix for me max. Them probably will be moving.

Jake-

[imported_ChrisinMD]

Jake,

If you are getting an electrician to do the wiring he will probably be able to give you excellant advice on these questions. If you think you will in any way need the 220 service in the future it is cheaper to do when you have the electrician there already.
It is sometimes difficult to get any electrician for such small jobs. When I moved in to my house I had my fuse box upgraded to breakers and panel upgraded to 220 service. Took the guy a full day and cost me 1K. Had 3 estimates and they were all right there. He did a fantastic job and I know it was done legit. I have since run a few circuits myself (220 and 110) but I was able to build off of what the electrician had already done.
Most electricians know there stuff and can give you excellant advice on your power needs. Woodworking tools cost too much to skimp on their power requiremnets.

[NUGGY]

Jake,

Run all your stationary tools at 240V. Check the motor nameplate for dual voltage rating. It should say 115/230V for dual voltage. At higher voltage, the motor will have less heat loss and less voltage drop in the circuit.
If you have minimal knowledge of electrical installation and NEC code requirements, hire a licensed electrician.

[ 01-27-2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: NUGGY ]

[imported_RealProTek]

Sounds like a good decision Jake. I do most of the handywork around my house myself. I am just a hard working union worker who can't afford the luxury of hiring peeps, so I learned to do it myself. :D

[Bob S]

Jake
Check out the post on changing over the 3650 to 220V. The link mentioned at para 7 gives this person's opinion and he looks like he knows what he is talking about.
Electricity in the woodshop (http://waterfront-woods.home.att.net/Articles/Electricity/electricity.htm)

[Spyder]

what state are you in, that you need an electrician? i am a lic. journeyman and am in colorado, if i can help you out. if it was me, i would install a couple of 115V/20A outlets and one or two 220V/20A outlets (if you plan to run tools in the future at this voltage). i would have them all insttalled at the same time as it will be cheaper than calling an elect. out multiple times. and yes it is 12 ga. wire needed for 20A circuits.

[imported_Weekender]

Jake,

I am also planning on adding new circuits. I have similar tools and equipments.

Here is what I have planned. I plan on checking my plan with an electrician:

I am running a 20 amp/220 volt circuit with Romex 12/3 to a Box. At the box I will split the wiring to a 220/20A receptacle and a 110/20A receptacle (with 12/2). 220 receptacle is for 220V tools and other for 110V tools. I cannot imagine running these two types of tools simultaneously.

I am running a second circuit with 20/110 with Romex 12/2 for future acquisition of DC. You would be running DC along with your TS.

And, ofcource all lightings and other receptacles are on my original circuit for the entire basement .

Now, there are 3 steps involved:
Step 1 - check if my plan is correct with Electricians (on this forum & a few electrician friends)
Step 2 - Mount all receptacles, run wires all the way to service panel
Step 3 - Call an electrician to inspect and approve. (I think I know a few electrician friends). Connect to the service panel under his guidance.

What do all think??? Electricians please speak up!!
This could work for you too Jake.

[imported_Bob D.]

I read the "Electricity in the woodshop" (7.7.2 Sub-Service Connection) link that Bob S. provided, and agree it is a well thought out plan for upgrading or installing service in a shop. The only thing I would do different is before I dropped that sub-fed breaker in the main panel, I would have all my new work completed and checked over to be sure it is corretly wired. Then I would go back and make the connection to bring power into the sub-panel. this way you are working on completely dead system, even the sub-panel is dead (no power anywhere) until the past step where you make your final connection to the main panel. just makes it that much safer. In fact, if you are not that expierenced but want to tackle the job yourself, this is probably the best way, then get a electrician buddy or someone more knowledgable to check your work before you tie into the main panel.

['olCrookedCut]

Jake,
Unless you rip a lot of long thick boards, I would leave the 220 alone. The next owner may want an electric dryer and the outlet will be waiting. 2 0r 3 years seems too short for "payback" for that work, however, all those nice 20a circuits around the basement will be a great selling point. Be sure to leave fresh sawdust in the corners when you sell, the male house buyers will start drooling! :D

[murphyr]

Jake, Was reading your posts as I posted same subject(110vs220). In the link posted by Bob s.
"electricity in woodshop" there is a paragraph about rewiring 110-220 motors. He states as long as the 110 is wired to handle the motors load there is no real gain in going 220. I was going to change to 220 but am rethinking that. I run 110v-20amp breaker w/12 gauge wire and the saw performs well. But I thought 220 might give more benefit but then maybe not in all cases? As you seem to have stated just upgrading the cord you use helped. So as I stated in my post if you go to this link what is some others thoughts? Does this sound right? If so might save some headaches, I'll be folowing along as the jury is still out on this one, Rick.

[woodworkerjake]

I'll read that post later tonight. Got some catch up reading to do. I'm gonna defer to the electrician.

To the journeyman electrician, I'm in IL. Sorry a lil too far from Colorado :(

I'm leaning toward 220 for my larger powertools after speaking with my dealer. I already noticed a significant jump from the startup by upping to a 15 amp 12 gauge wire. he said I should get another umpf up in addition to that. Everything I've read up until today has said that a 1.5 hp motor should be closer to 2 hp after 220 volts. But I'm going to talk to the electrician and use his input too before I decide. Cost will be considered.

My dealer said I should probably have a 25 amp fuse rather than 15 if I stay with 110.

What I am picturing in my head right now is 3 220 volts and upgrading the amps in the existing outlets. Maybe add one or 2.

Jake

[imported_wbrooks]

Here is the physics answer
Power = Volts X Current
Check the plate on the motor
at 120 V the current is 13A
at 240V the current is 6.5A
So 120 X 13 = 240 X 6.5
Same power no mater what voltage you run it at.

The size of the breaker you use at the fuse panel will not help you get more power to your saw. The motor only draws 13A at full load so a 15 A breaker will supply that full load current without tripping. An induction motor will draw between 6 and ten times its full load current at startup when loaded but since we start our saw motors without wood in the blade the inrush current is more like 350% or about 45 amps at the instant the switch is flipped declining expotentially as the motor RPM increases. You will be below 15A in less than 1 second so the breaker will not blow. If you find that the breaker is tripping you are likely loading the saw into a stall condition.
More Motor physics..
If the line voltage available to the motor drops by 10% the power the motor can produce drops by 19% so your 1.5 HP motor is now 1.2 HP

[imported_wbrooks]

Continue...
To get the most power out of your saw the line voltage supplied to it should never fall more than 3% or 3.6 volts from 120.
Voltage drop is a function of current, length of wire and size of wire.
At 13 amp AWG 14 wire will have a voltage drop of 0.08 v/ft so if your total wire run from main panel breaker to the saw motor is less than 45 feet you will be fine with standard house wiring. Don't forget to subtract the 12 feet of wire that comes with the saw so you really only have 33 feet from panel to wall socket. Unless you are next to the panel in the basement your socket likely has more than 33 feet of wire back to the panel.
At 13 amp AWG 12 wire will have a voltage drop of 0.05 v/ft so you can now have 53 feet of wire between the panel and the socket (12 ft of 14 AWG wire on the saw was included in calculation)
Now if we switch to 240v at 6.5 amps..
AWG 14 wire allows 180 feet
and 12 AWG allows 269 feet ( with 12' AWG 14 on the saw)
basically 4 X the distance before we reach the 3% voltage drop
Now all you need to do is measure the distance in wire feet ( not linear or walking feet )from your wall socket to the panel and you have you answer on weather you should go to 240 or if 120 will cut it for you

[woodworkerjake]

Thank you

That makes complete sense to me. Only thing that is questionable is my personal experience. My shop is righ next to the panel which has a 25 foot extension cord 12 ga 15 amp. and I blew 2 fuses. This didn't happen until I upgraded this extension cord. Prior to this, I was using a lighter duty < not sure what ga / amp b/c its such an old cord > cord we used for the weed whacker. It's a 100 foot cord.

Jake

[imported_wbrooks]

By fuses I assume you mean the circular glass type? If you have this system you need to use the d (delay) rated fuses due to the inrush current and possible overloads due to feeding the wood too fast when the saw tends to bog.
The extention cord is easily explained. Most 100' ext cords are 16 AWG at best which has a 0.13V/ft loss at 13 A. So over the 100' cord you have lost 13V or 11% of the supply voltage which means your saw can now only draw about 10.2 Amps without accounting for the loss in the saws cord or the wire from the panel to the wall socket.
On start up the equation is even more frightening.
With a typical start up draw of 43 amps you saw would only see 31 volts at the end of that old cord. Bet your saw took about 10 seconds to reach full run speed.
The new cord will only loose 0.6 volts at 13 A and only about 1 volt at start up. So that glass fuse will see almost 40A and pop.

[woodworkerjake]

my bad. By fuses I mean circuits. As in a circuit breaker.

Jake

[woodworkerjake]

Yep, it did take a while to get started up.. lol

That was first thing I noticed with the new cord. Quite noticable. Didn't take 10 seconds but was noticable.

Jake

[imported_RealProTek]

Jake, did you test the breaker itself, they do go bad. Just a thought.

[woodworkerjake]

How would I test the breaker?

Jake

[woodworkerjake]

GETTING CLOSE TO ANSWERE HERE

I was in the basement with my manuals & flashlight. Found out circuit in question is 20 amps. Which confuses me more since I would guess this would be enough.

Extension cord section says for 120 v, 25 foot extension should be 14AWG wire. I used 12AWG wire. Is this differentiation enough of a problem area to cause this problem.

I already got a call into electrician to call me back with suggestions / estimates so I can make a decision.

Thanks everyone for any additional / past help

Jake

[murphyr]

Jake, I decided to do my own test to see if there was any difference running the saw on 110 or 220.
Here's what I did, still using the 110v-20amp,
w/12 gauge wire the saw seemed ok. I had some 2"
thick oak and I tried ripping it. At moderate feed the saw could handle it but was working hard. I tried increasing feed rate and actually stalled the motor! So rewiring the motor for 220v
it's very simple just follow directions in manual takes very little time. I had space in breaker panel to add 20 amp 220v breaker(had one on hand so no cost there) I am a carpentor so while in local hardware picked up 220-20amp outlet these are made so you can't plug 110v cord into it so you have to buy a new plug end to match and change
the one on your saw. Now I have 220v-20amp line
w/10 gauge wire. I noticed right away that motor was up to speed instantly. I again tried ripping the same oak and the saw handled it with ease.
Increased feed rate and could not stall the motor.
There does in my case seem to be a pretty big improvement in motor output. I can't say the horsepower increased but 220 does seem to be an improvement so I will now keep it. I wouldn't recommend pushing the saw that hard as this can still shorten the life of the motor! I did this only to see if there was improvment and found out there seems to be. I will go back to using the saw as before but feel 220 is worth it. 110v would probably be fine if you don't want to go 220 route but if it helps motor run a little more efficiant probably better. Others comments are welcome, Rick

[woodworkerjake]

Murphy.

That makes complete sense. Less technical & application specific. Just what I needed. 220 seems like the direction I will go too. Still waiting for the electrician to call me. I made a decision a while back. I'll try to fix almost anything but for the itme being, not touching wires. Maybe later I'll expand into that but I have enough to learn with woodworking.

:D

Jake

[Bob S]

To further ol' crooked cut, if you decide to use the ts in another location you are more ready. However he did say Cabinet saw and for most the locations would be very limited.

[imported_RealProTek]

When I meant test, I meant buying a new one and swap it out. Just get the make of the panel and bring to HD or electrical supply house. Always good to keep a spare. If that was it, it would cost ya about 30 bucks, if not, you have a spare.

[woodworkerjake]

Talked with an electrician today. He's gonna hook me up with 2 recepticals for 220 volt power on a dedicated outlet for power tools.

MORE POWER.. arrggh arrrggh arrggh arrrgghh

Only thing that confused me was he was saying that I could use my current extension cord and run 220 through it. I thought you needed those funny pronged receptacles to run 220.

Jake

[murphyr]

Jake, The electrician may be saying you can use your extension cord if the wire gauge is correct.
But I would think you would need to change the end. A 220 receptical should not accept 110 plug as you don't want the possibility of plugging a 110 appliance in that outlet! I would think you would also need to change the plug end on your saw as it would be set up to run on 220 and if it got moved, unplugged from that extension cord the 110 end could be mistakenly plugged into 110 outlet which could be a problem.
What I did was after I rewired the saw for 220 I opened the switch for the saw and removed the old shorter 110 cord and using the proper gauge wire ran about a 25' new cord from the switch and put the correct end for 220 on it. Now I don't need an extension cord as this gives me plenty of length If I move saw to still reach the outlet for saw. This may be something you could ask his opinion about. But the electricians I deal with all agree 110 and 220 should not be interchangeable. I'm shure when you get together he will explain this? If any doubts I would get a second opinion. Some things to think about?
Just my 2 Cent worth, Good luck, Rick.

[imported_Ronnie Clement]

i purchased my home about two years ago and had a similar problem. Turned out the breaker panel did not meet current code. I have a friend that is a licensed electrician replace the wole panel. While he was there I had him drop three seperate outlets (20 amp). This way all the lights were on the original circuit and I was able to add more lighting. On the other three circuits I can run my tools and dust collection at the same time. He also used a 200 amp panel to re-place the 150 amp panel. I still have a 150 amp service from the street but if exceed that I can call the power company and upgrade the service and only have to repull the homerun. Definitely not the cheapest solution. If i had it to do all over again I would do it the same way.

[woodworkerjake]

if ours is out of code I'd really be flaming pissed. We had basement and entire ground floor rewired soup to nuts about 8 years ago.

Update - The guys who wired my house are jerking me around < probably b/c my job is too small at 160 bucks parts & labor included > I had to call 3 times to get estimate over phone and I have called 2 times and they are giving me run around. Saying they'll call me. I'd have more respect for them if they just told me my job was too small. I'm workin on getting another alternative.

Jake

[imported_Weekender]

Jake,
Do it yourself. No big deal. Make sure you have another person to watch over. Follow ALL safety precaution.

I did mine last weekend. In the end I simplified everything. I added two 120V 20 AMP circuit breakers. The whole thing cost me less than $ 50/- It took me little less than 2 hours.

[woodworkerjake]

I appreciate your suggestion. I could but I already got an electrician scheduled to come out Friday morning. Only charging 150 bucks. He's giving me cords and rewiring my motor for me for that price. I think it's a pretty good deal.

Jake

[imported_ByteButcher]

Regarding 220, there is not much advantage for short runs within a building. The voltage drop should be insignificant with properly sized wire. Running multiple tools on long cords (such as new construction on temporary services) calls for larger gauge cords.

There is one big disadvantage of 220. If you ever want to use automatic dust collection (I highly recommend it) you are going to have pay for expensive profession hardware. I use the inexpensive ($20 I think) Sears switch and it works fine. For those who aren't aware of it, it's a small adapter that plug into the wall receptacle. The power tool plugs into the adapter and when it senses load current, it switches on accessory outlets. These can power your shop vac / dust collector, lights, etc. Having the vac automatically turned on whenever you power up the tool is a huge convenience. Your shop stays much cleaner as a result.

[ 02-06-2004, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: ByteButcher ]

[woodworkerjake]

Finito / Done

Got 2 dedicated 20 amp 220 volt circuits driving 2 outlets.

Also had a 20 amp dedicated 110 volt outlet for power tools put in next to my 110 volt outlet that has the gremlins. This should be adequate for me for a while.

Also, I watched teh electrician the entire time. WOW, talk about an easy job. next time I'll do this stuff myself. But I got it all done for reasonable rate and I learned from watching him.

:D

Jake