GRR-Ripper

[woodslayer]

You can call me a wimp but ripping thin strips that require removal of the blade-guard/splitter on my TS2424 has always scared the daylights out of me. So I bought a Grrripper and an MJ Splitter and installed the splitter yesterday, pretty simple installation. I decided to test it by ripping ¼ inch cherry strips between the blade and fence; the first cut just scorched the piece between the blade and fence. I then repositioned the handle more toward that side of the stock to more evenly distribute the weight I was applying and it worked as advertised, no burn marks at all. If you work a lot with small stock you may want to consider purchasing one of these rather pricey push sticks.

Woodslayer

[daveferg]

Well, for a load of safety and ergonomic reasons, I wouldn't own one. While using one of those little splitters is better than nothing, still, adding yet another process, with the guard removed---AND having your hand pass directly over the blade are two items not on my safety hit parade list.

[Rafael]

I agree with dave, this isn't political so it does happen. Unless you have gorilla arms, you are placing your head and upper body towards, and possibly over the blade. There are safer ways to achieve the same end. The gripper does not absolutely prevent kickbacks, in which case your arm, at the very least, could be seriously injured.
BTW, push sticks are easy to make, even store bought ones are cheaper than a gripper. In any event I wouldn't worry about $30 or so to prevent an injury.

[imported_MSchenker]

I'm a big safety nut myself, so when I started using my new table saw I looked at the Grrripper system. Everyone was talking about it, so I thought I would want one.

Then I saw a demonstration at a woodworking show and I changed my mind. When using the Grrripper, you finish the cut with your chest and arms extended over the blade -- a very awkward position! Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there was a problem with the cut while you were in this position, you could get a board in the gut AND send your hand and arm right into the spinning blade AND you won't be able to reach the power switch.

I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise, since I am very interested in better safety.

[imported_Woodrat]

That reminds me of a post I saw, can't remember which forum it was, were a guy was cutting a long board and his feet slipped as he finished the cut.

He came down chest first onto the saw. Said that if he didn't have the blade guard on he would have put the blade into the center of his chest.

Damn, makes me pucker just thinking about it!!

Maybe you have a good point about the gripper.

Be safe guys,

Woodrat

[daveferg]

Hurahhh for you guys. You have an excellent understanding of ergonomics. You get gold stars. ;) There are so many safer ways to cut small stock, but it always seems there are a lot of people who want an easy way---which generally can be the most unsafe.

[woodslayer]

My first impression when viewing the Grrripper video was the same: yea, that is real safe with the blade-guard off and what to do with the stock when it is pasted the blade. I was attempting to rip some small stock with the blade-guard on and experienced my closest encounter to a kickback yet and decided there must be a better way. I have since added an outfeed table to solve the problem of being concerned were the stock ends up once it is pasted the blade. I am tall enough that I am able to stand well to the left of the blade and still keep sufficient pressure on the Grrripper to maintain control of the cut. My blade-guard remains on the saw 99% of the time until I feel the Grrripper would provide a safer alternative.
I always considered myself very safety conscious and have the utmost respect for any spinning piece of metal in my shop but you ultra safety conscious guys have me wondering how you make a dado cut without fear of falling into a much wider spinning blade? Personally, I prefer to make the majority of my dadoes utilizing the router because of the respect I have for that blade.

Woodslayer

[imported_MSchenker]

you ultra safety conscious guys have me wondering how you make a dado cut without fear of falling into a much wider spinning blade? Personally, I prefer to make the majority of my dadoes utilizing the router because of the respect I have for that blade.I'm one of those "ultra safety=conscious guys." I never do dadoes on the table saw. I use my router.

[Rafael]

I agree. Dadoes on a TS are insane. The router is easier, safer, and makes a far cleaner dado.

[ba-doyn]

Not to hijack the subject, but I'm looking for a better way of routing dados. I always seem to have trouble getting the right fit.

Michael

[daveferg]

I do dados on both ts and router. On the ts, it's a matter of a proper set up and slow feeding. However, to answer the question of matching widths----if you were to have an Incra set up on your router table, multiple passes (with the obvious scrap piece tests) will get you to where you want to go.

Woodslayer---I will respond despite your siding with the idiot Maineman. ;)

One of the precepts of safety is substitution. Substituting a safer product for a potentially unsafe product. Point is, there are any number of methods of cutting small pieces---all you have to do is look in ww'ing mags/books. Even if you take off the guard on some alternate methods (sometimes necessary for very thin pieces) other methods at least don't have your hands directly over the blade.

BTW---if you're doing dados with your hand directly over the blade, that too, is extremely unsafe.

[woodslayer]

Dave

Not to worry, I’m not picking sides with anyone, I merely pointed out that I thought his last comments were funny, albeit they were at your expense and not mine. As SmartA$$ so kindly pointed out on that thread my character attacks were not keeping within the intended spirit of this website and for that I admit I was in error.

Ba-doyn

Are you referring to the width of the groove that is giving you trouble? I have a Freud 508 set and the shims are extremely difficult to remove from the arbor, I get so frustrated when I’m attempting to fine tune the width I usually move on to the router.

Woodslayer

[ba-doyn]

I'm referring to a better way of getting the width of the grooves to be correct with a router. I seem to have to fuss with it an extraordinary amount. I would think there is a better setup as I'm pretty new and could easily have not seen this yet.

Thanks,
Michael

[daveferg]

Michael----for a table mounted router, about the best system other than gauging how hard you tap the fence, is the Incra. Now, there may be others out there, but that's the one I saw demonstrated. For hand-held, I've had excellent success with the Porter Cable mirco-adjust edge guide. Both are steps above merely using a straight edge guide, which is almost impossible to move with accuracy.

Woodslayer---no problem--at least with you. ;) My bad for even responding to him when he showed his ugly face again.

[imported_MSchenker]

for a table mounted router, about the best system other than gauging how hard you tap the fence, is the Incra.I agree. For a while now, I've been using the Incra LS Positioner on a Woodpecker table, along with the Precision Router Lift. This system is absolutely amazing. I can zero in on a rabbet or dado with amazing accuracy. Just last night I made cabinet doors with open mortise-and-tenons using this system and got it absolutely perfect on the first try. This is also a great system for jointing on the router table, which I do all the time. I can set the fences just right for jointing, and I can actually take predictable amounts off the stock with each pass. Finally, this system allows me to do amazing dovetails and box joits. The system may be expensive, but think of it like a router table/dovetail jig/mini jointer.

Talking about alternative methods, I really like jointing on the router table: I get more visibility on the cut, allowing me to see exactly what I'm removing and seeing if the stock is drifting away from the fence. Also, jointing edges with the face down is a much more comfortable position. Of course, this system has its limits, as I cannot face joint.

[macpiano]

Originally posted by MSchenker:
[QUOTE] Talking about alternative methods, I really like jointing on the router table: I get more visibility on the cut, allowing me to see exactly what I'm removing and seeing if the stock is drifting away from the fence. Also, jointing edges with the face down is a much more comfortable position. Of course, this system has its limits, as I cannot face joint. How much deflection do you get on the router as jointer? I get about 1/32 over 8 feet but that may be due to the fact that the router fence is only 2 feet long. I was thinking of making a new set of fences to the total width was about 4 feet.
thanks
gary

[imported_MSchenker]

How much deflection do you get on the router as jointer? I get about 1/32 over 8 feet but that may be due to the fact that the router fence is only 2 feet long. I was thinking of making a new set of fences to the total width was about 4 feet.To eliminate deflection, I use the largest straight bit possible. The bit in my table right now is one from MLCS with a 1 1/2" diameter and a 1 1/4" cut length (model #7786, http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_strai.html

You mentioned making a new set of fences, but this may not be necessary. I disagree with the assertion that your fence needs to be 48" to joint 8' boards. My Incra fence is about 30" long and I have successfully jointed 8' boards on it. Of course, I use infeed and outfeed support for those longer boards.

By the way, just so you know what I mean when I say I have "successfully jointed 8' boards." For every glue-up, I test my edge joints by holding them together just with hand pressure and shining a bright halogen light from the other side of the joint. If I can see light through the joint, it's not good enough for me. Believe me, if you don't see light through a joint, its as close to perfect as you're going to get with wood!

[woodslayer]

Ba-doyn

Here is an attempt to describe the method I have come up with, it is somewhat of a PITA but provides perfect width dados. I had purchased a verity package of the bar guide clamps (they look something like this http://mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/boomclm.html ) at a WW show and thought there must be a way to utilize these for that purpose. I clamp one (we’ll call this one the reference clamp) the furthest from the desired dado location. I then place some scraps from the desired width dado stock (we’ll just use something under ¾ inch ply as an example) snuggly between the reference clamp and what we’ll call the movable clamp. Now run your router down the movable clamp with a ½” bit in it. Now remove the scrap and replace it with some material the exact diameter of your bit, (it could be setup blocks, plastic or scraps you have milled to that exact size) and snug the movable clamp up. Now you have effectively moved your reference the exact distance of the difference between your bit diameter and your desired width, run your router and you will have the perfect size dado. This could also work with only one clamp, but you would need longer pieces of materials and need to find a way to secure them to the reference clamp.

Woodslayer