Is it important that tools are made in the USA?

[Norm]

A recent thread in the Woodworking area talked some about this topic ( Emerson Tool Company closing plant in Paris, TN (http://www.ridgid.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000645)). While Jake is probably correct in limiting the conversation within that specific area, I think it is important for us at RIDGID to know your thoughts on the subject.

I share some of your frustration, as I see how increasingly difficult it is to buy something that is NOT made in China these days. As long as the discussion about this issue remains civil, I think it has a place on this board.

So lets hear it! How important to you is it that your tool is labeled "Made in the USA"? Do you buy only American-made products? Or is the bottom line your only consideration?

[Ivan]

Wow Norm, you might really be opening up a real discussion here. Here I go. For me, when I am looking for a tool, I first look at the name brands because I expect better functionality and quality. When I find what I want, I then look to see where it is made. (I do look at non-name brands but their quality must be obvious for me to consider them). If an item is made in the states AND it is known to have a good track record for quality, then I will buy it even if it costs a little more. Note that I do not want to reward an American manufacturer for bad quality, their thinking that they can produce anything with the USA tag on it and us devoted Americans will buy it no matter what.

In the past, "Made in China" meant poorer quality. That is changing just like "Made in Japan" made a huge transition. What I hope Ridgid will do is maintain its specifications so that poor quality will not be accepted from any manufacturer.

The last thing which I believe will go nowhere in this forum is the discussion about corporate greed. Yes, corporations that are publicly traded are under pressure to make a larger profit to pass on to their shareholders. While this is necessary for capitalism to work, how much will be of much discussion. Corporate executives are largely judged according to financial results so you know if given a decision to make an item abroad will bring more profits, you know where the balance will lean. Note that stocks are where people and corporations invest for a good return on their money. This includes retirement funds. Nobody wants a 3% return on their money as in the bank so remember that.

I originally thought all Ridgid tools were made in the USA according to what the Home Depot employee told me. I was impressed with the quality of what I saw and when I heard the tools were made in the USA this was an additional plus in choosing Ridgid. After I purchased the MS1250, I found the "Made in China" plate on the motor and admit was a little disappointed. I would suspect that sales will drop somewhat when the "Made in the USA" tag is dropped. I, like many, am willing to pay a little extra if the item I purchase provides me with good quality and its profits stay in the USA.

Please Ridgid, maintain the quality of your products!!

[ 06-24-2002, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Ivan ]

[Ivor Michaels]

Norm, I think Ivan summed it up very adequately.
I agree with just about every word he wrote, in particular the last portion about big business. Profit, profit, profit. That is what in the end drives the companies to make the decisions they do. It's unrealistic to think that the big companies are thinking of us, the consumer. So we all have to be diligent in our choices and as Ivan said, just because it says made in the USA does'nt necessarily mean it's good. A lot of junk comes from China but so does some very high quality stuff. As long as Head Office insists on a certain standard and it's met, then OK. It does not help the laid off U.S. worker but unfortunately that's the way commerce works these days. Profit, profit, profit.

Just my rambling 2c worth. And I am not American.

Cheers Ivor in Calgary, Canada. (But with lots of made in USA Ridgid tools).

[K. L. McReynolds]

Sooner or later, the decamping of American businesses is going to hurt the economy. I agree the tax burden is causing a great deal of the problem, but solving the problem is not going to happen without 'Big Business' rattling the doors of Congress. States and counties are giving business's tax abatements in order to land their factories and stores. That is already backfiring here in KC, Ks. We need to stop the exodus by fixing the cause.

[michael stephen]

norm, YES, its so important for us to make sure our products on our shelfs are made in usa. it has been synonymous with good and reliable quality.no compromise there! by the way, why arent international distributors or dealers not included in the promotional offers on the Ridgid rapid wrench, anyway???

[J J]

Norm,

I'm glad you reopened this thread here---I really hated it in the Woodworker's Corner though. :mad:

"How important to you is it that your tool is labeled "Made in the USA"?

If my TS2424 wasn't ‘Made In the USA’ I can tell you it wouldn't be here in my shop. I had made my mind up to buy a different brand TS but while talking to the toolmen at HD (a couple of old guys who know their stuff!) I learned of the Ridgid & Emerson Tool history and I changed my mind. Mostly because of the ‘Made in USA’ but I suppose the fact that I had a Craftsman RAS, made by Emerson, for over 25 years with nary a complaint played a part in it as well. The 'Made in USA' was what did it for me though.

"Do you only buy American-made products? Or is the bottom line your only consideration?"

As far as only buying American made products, not much is made here in the USA any more. I wish I had that choice! The bottom line is not a consideration for me now but I have to admit, it sure was when I was raising my family. smile.gif

There are the answers to your questions but please permit me to add:

If anyone needs to save their pennies for one reason or another that’s fine but please don’t badmouth the American worker. They are the best there is! Quickly adding, IMHO. smile.gif They also work the longest hours in the industrialized world. This according to published statistics by the International Labour Organization - 1999.

John

Take care all.

[Andy B.]

"It dose matter" WWE superstar the Rock!!!
It really does not matter to me!

[RGad]

I vote with Ivan. While "Made in USA" is not (and cannot be) the only factor, it is a value for which I will pay a premium. In my view, the premium goes to strengthing the United States' industrial capacity, which is in the national interest.

[RevEd]

In response to your question I will offer my opinion.
I always try to buy American and I always try to buy from a local retailer.
To me buying American is natural, you love the country and you support it's position in the world market.

Buying locally is also natural, you have questions and need answers, you want to touch and feel, you need immediate satisfaction you buy locally. You also then have someone you can look eye to eye when something is wrong.

I realize buying American is not always possible due to foreign parts usage and such. In those cases I then choose the one that has the company located in America. We can not keep allowing the profits to go to foreign countries, it is slowly destroying our economy and will eventually effect our freedom.

[Pepaw of VA]

For me the bottom line is quality. Just because a product is made in the USA. Does not mean it's the best there is. I thing some people feel that if they buy products that are only made in america that they are assuring our freedom and our way of life. Those thing come from those who serveand had served this country in the military. And to say you only buy american made products is really hard to do. Just becasue a company makes there products in the USA. Does not mean that every part was made in the USA. It could have foreign made steel, or plastic. The nut and bolts may have come from over sea's. Thses are thing that you may never know. NAd just because a company is locations in this country does not mean that all the profits stay in this country.
If you want to buy american made products over any other kind then so be it, But you should do all you can to be sure that the company is putting out the best product and if it falls short in any way let the company know that wont do. You may get thing changed but you will pay much more.
Big business is there to make money. To pay the people who work there and forthe stock holders. And the stock holders come first. If the stock holders are not getting as much money each year or what have you then the company eather has to cut back on the number of people who they have on the payroll or cut back on the quality of the product they make some thing has to give and for the most part is quality that goes first. They could say every person who works for the company to take a pay cut so that they could keep making a top quality product (ANY TAKERS??)
Ok I'll get off my soap box now. For me quality has to be number one. If that means the product I buy are made in the USA fine, If the come from over seas that fine too. Our Freedom is not going to be threatened because I or someone else bought a tool or a car made over seas. That price was and is paid each and everytime one of our military members gives his or her life. And lets US not forget those who gave their lives on 9-11. They to paid a price for our freedom. And it had nothing to do with buying foreign made goods.....

[Jamie]

Well...the answers listed above state a lot of things that I agree with regarding "Made in the USA". I would pay a few dollars more...but not much for the same quality. I would not choose an inferior product just because it was made in the US.

However, I had a professor who loved the following equation: Value = Performance / Price. If you are the highest priced product then you are vulnerable to cheaper goods. The competitor does not have to have the same quality to have the same value. I can understand why the market pressures demand a move overseas.....but I hate that it has come to that!!!

[john54]

It's important to me that the tools and products I buy are made here in the US. I feel very strong about this. Ivan brought up several good points and I agree with them. And I will pay more for them. But I really feel it's in the best interest of the country. It's a matter of national security that we maintain a large enough manufacturing base so that if needed, we can produce the goods needed to defend ourselves. Sure, nobody takes a table saw or a drill press to the front lines, but we need the factories and the infrastructure. During WWII you couldn't buy a new car because the car manufacturers were building tanks, trucks, jeeps, etc. When I was shopping for my table saw, the "Made In USA" label made me look at the Ridgid, and after comparing it to the imports I bought the Ridgid. If all the Ridgid tools will be made oversees, then I can't really consider Ridgid a tool manufacturer, Ridgid would be just be another importer to me. You guys really make a good product. Don't through it away.
My 2 cents.
John

[john54]

One more thing. The reason "The South" lost the US Civil War was because the north had factories to build guns and cannons. The "South" had cotton farms.
2 more cents.
John

[RGad]

Very few of the firearms used by either side during the Civil War were manufactured during the period 1861-1865. In fact, some of the innovations of that period were shunned by the military of both sides.

I actually agree with the point, but the facts in the case of the Civil War don't bear it out. The story with respect to World War II, particular the Pacific theatre, is an entirely different matter.

Consider this: in 1939, it was decided that the military needed a new, light weight, short-barreled carbine. This was not a derivative of any existing design; it was to be created "from scratch." It went from conceptual idea in October 1939 to full production in October 1940; Jake, wouldn't that be a miracle today, even with computers and all the other design and manufacturing techniques that they didn't have in 1939? Now, the .30 U.S. M1 Carbine wasn't a great weapon, but that isn't the point. As early as December 6, 1941, no less autority than Yamamoto himself realized that Japan would be defeated by the industrial capacity of the United States.

[spacebluesonoma]

Made in america has been and i am sure it always will be a deciding factor. However I am not opposed to buying foreign in the right circumstance. For example, Ridgid is an american company sold through home depot, an american company and therefore even if something is made overseas if you are buying from home depot in essence you are buying american.

I would be willing to bet that even if the tool is made in usa it was made with some foreign parts.

as long as ridgid keeps their high standards, superior technical support, and parts/accessories availibility, i will continue to buy Ridgid.

[BadgerDave]

Are we talking about made in the USA or American owned? Honda cars are made in America but the profits go back to Japan. Honda provides jobs to Americans. Some American companies manufacture overseas but bring the profits back to America.

The world economy is a complex and complicated issue. Are we truly buying American when the company is American owned but the product is made overseas or are we buying American when the company is foreign owned but the product is made in the USA? :confused:

[KellyC]

What a topic this is....good responses from all and I agree with most of them. I've got several foreign tools and a whole lotta American mades....given the choice, I will always buy American for the quality (as long as it's there).

As far as all tool makers looking to move their factories overseas (which most are), as long as the quality doesn't suffer, I guess it'll be ok. Sure would be nice to be able to say all my tools were made in America, but I fear that will soon be a thing of the past. It's sad to me to see this happen in the US, but I do understand the problems. Between the EPA and the tax structure, it's getting harder and harder to do business here.

On another tangent, I will say that due to the huge influx of cheap labor in our great country, I would never buy a new home. Builders now are cutting every corner they can and it's ugly to see OSB and finger-jointed studs and shoddy construction everywhere in a house that will sell for half a million. I'm in hopes that the tool makers don't fall prey to this type of shareholder greed...

[Steve L.]

The true question is this: When China invades Taiwan will the US still have a smooth flow of Ridgid tools?? It is definately in our National Interest to have some manufacturing capacity here. I try to purchase American made products whenever possible.
Steve

[K.M. Delano]

To me, it is important to buy American as often as I can. I follow by trying to go Canada next. Given the choice between two tools of equal quality, I'll pay more if I am sure it is made, not assembled only, in the USA or Canada. If not available, I'll go with the best quality in my price range.

In other words, I would buy a General Drill press over a simular made Rigid if they were the same price range/ comprable product. General is in Canada, Rigid from off shore............

[Dave Arbuckle]

House of Tools sells General's Canadian made drill press (General also imports BTW) Model 34-01 for United States $913.31. Pricey, huh?

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=170676 is the page with price.

Dave

[K.M. Delano]

Dave

Yup, it's pricey! I think General makes some of the best tools out there. But, with that said, they are a tad out of my price range!

In it's price range, I think that the DP1550 is a good deal. Specs out the same as some of the other brands that are $75-100 more. Just wish HD would carry the Mortise attachment right in the store!

[Bill T.]

Norm,

Thanks for starting this thread.

I try to buy tools that are made in the USA if I can. I will usually pay more for made in the USA but I also expect more. I expect better service and parts availability as well as a properly written user manual and higher quality. I have purchased Ridgid plumbing tools for years because they were and are top quality and they are made in the USA. As far as woodworking equipment goes I still try to buy in the USA although it’s getting tough to do so. For instance it’s almost impossible to buy a drill press or jointer that’s made here although it is possible. I ended up purchasing a used Rockwell-Delta jointer because of its quality and because it was made in the USA. There are exceptions like when its Sunday afternoon and you need a 15mm wrench. All Pep Boys has are wrenches made in Taiwan, you end up buying the wrench just so you can do the job.

One problem seems to be marketing. For instance when you go to Home Depot the cheap import pipe wrenches are easy to find and in the tool department. The Ridgid pipe wrenches are locked away in a cabinet. You have to get a clerk to open the cabinet just to look at one. It’s the same way with a lot of other types of tools. For some reason the importers always seem to have the best web site and marketing.

It was sad to here Emerson Electric decided to close the Paris plant. More US jobs were lost, it’s now even harder for me to buy made in the USA products, the US has lost even more valuable manufacturing infrastructure. A foreign country now has more jobs, and more US money.

Bottom line for me is if the tool is made overseas chances are I won’t buy it.

Bill T.

WThanel@aol.com

[michael stephen]

i would always buy a ridgid tool so long as its made in usa. even if its expensive! thats quality!

[gator]

Quality for the dollar IS the bottom line. They go hand in glove. Anyone who buys anything (a car, a tool, an appliance, a computer, whatever)based solely on country of origin is a fool. German cars, American tools, Japanese entertainment electronics; how many Americans have that mind set? Too many. Not enough look at the questions; What do I need?, What will do the job I need?, What is the best function/value/quality/price product that will do what I need done?. That is my decision process.

The second thing that keeps popping up in discussions like this is China. China used generically. China is not Tiawan and Tiawan is not China. There is a general quality level difference. There are also specific exceptions. It is up to the consumer to do their homework and find those exceptions if they exist, or to find that there is no exception in a particular case. Although, generally, Tiawan has a higher quality standard than China, if a manufacturer (read importer such as Delta, Ridgid, Sears, WoodTek, Grizzly) wants to buy junk from Tiawan, they can.

Enough of my soapbox. I just get upset when people blame everything under the sun for quality/price/value except themselves. DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST, THEN BUY.

gator

[UO_Woody]

I would prefer to buy American made everything to keep my fellow Americans working. However, the labor is so cheap, and the import taxes are such that companies can better profit from manufacturing abroad. It's polotics I'm affraid. Until our government sees to it that American companies benefit more by staying here in the US, we will be forced to purchase non US made products. Foriegn trade is one thing, keeping the American working is another. Instead of taxing the heck out of the American who is becoming more and more unemployed these days, tax the imports.
Although big business see's nothing but numbers on paper...profits, bonus's, etc. I would like to see big business return to the pride they had with the Made in USA that has seamed to be forgotten for the numbers on paper.
Bottom line is I read reviews, get personal opinions, look at warrenty and service reputation on nearly everthing I purchase. If what I want is made in the USA, YHEY! If not, or well. That is the direction I take because that is path that has been set before me.
The path can change ONLY when our fellow Americans become more important than the numbers on paper.

[J Reed]

There are a lot of opinions here and a few good points. It's important to remember that the countries we import from are as dependant on us as we are on them. If we don't buy they don't profit. The problem comes from the smaller items. Put a $10 wrench set aside a $50 wrench set and most people will buy the $10 set (or two for that matter). The screwdrivers, tape measures and countless other products generate huge profits through volume.

The biggest problem is that the domestic products aren't significantly better. Dollar for dollar it's hard to see how we've retained any market share at all.

Many will disagree but the fact is they design, build, and ship across the world in some cases and are still able to make healthy profits while maintaining lower prices.

The problem is right here at home. We haven't come to realize that building the exact same products here and not having to ship them and pay import taxes offsets the increased cost of labor.

These countries aren't importing Caftsman wrenches and Ridgid Tablesaws and yet they're able to repair their cars and build their homes.

[ 01-21-2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: J Reed ]

[john54]

J REED,

The labor is cheap. They pay people maybe $3.00 a day! And the people there are happy to make THAT!
I remember reading an article about NewBalance Shoe Co. They build about 60%~70% of their shoes in asia and the rest in the U.S. The labor cost of building in asia is about $2.00 per shoe, in the U.S. it's about $4.25 per shoe, - not that much of a difference per shoe. But if your selling 4 million shoes, well then, it's a big difference.
My feeling is that it's a matter of national security that we maintain a large enough manufacturing base so that if needed, we can produce the goods needed to defend ourselves.
We need the factories and the infrastructure, I will always buy AMERICAN MADE whenever possible.
Have a great day in the shop!
John
Eastchester, NY
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"~ Albert Einstein