RIDGID Forum

[spowell]

I really don't want to do what I am about to do. If any of you were where you could hear me I'd ask you to talk me out of it. But I really do think that it is time to talk about this forum in its own thread. Too many threads are being hijacked from their own deserving topics to try to deal with problems within this forum. I think that it's time to solve our problems in the open where everyone knows what is being discussed and can either follow, or not.

I know that I am not an "old-timer", but I have been following this forum for well over a year. I lurked, as many of you have, trying to gather information on potential purchases and began visiting more often due to the quality of the posts / people here. Eventually I joined and began posting. This is often repeated throughout the membership here.

One recent thread by Caspian (Thanks a lot by the way) discussed member statistics. I suggest that everyone who did not read that post do so. What it showed is that a large number of our most recent members are disappearing. For whatever reason, people are interested enough to post, but quickly leave.

Internally, some members here are taking information posted here in good faith and distorting it in other forums. People are arguing and fussing over these issues while the original posting is left unanswered or partially answered.

With the lack of Moderator involvement, it is up to us to solve it on our own. This is the post to make that effort within. This forum used to be about providing information freely, providing assistance to those needing help with problems, and also providing a pat on the back to boost morale when the crunch is on. That's not what this forum is about now!

So, let's see where this leads. Hopefully, this is putting everyone in a ring with gloves on to settle matters. Also hopefully, when the dust settles we'll all shake hands and agree that things are done and get back to the business of this forum.

I'll start things off with the first post. After that, it's up to everyone else to either participate or continue to let this fester. Keep in mind, this is a place for character assassination. It may get rough, but let's keep the punches fair.

[spowell]

I have a problem with all of the negativity that is running rampant. Sane people can agree to disagree. However, it is often frustrating when someone won't discuss, just accuse. I realize this is the RIDGID forum and most everyone here came because of their interest in RIDGID tools. But there are also several coming here just to bash. Not just RIDGID, that I can deal with, but also bashing other members.

You can disagree with me. Sometimes disagreement makes me learn more than agreement. USAirwaysMech and I have disagreed on several topics. They were disagreements that I think both of us agree to disagree about. Thing is, he made me do research to support my own views. I learned a lot more from that than from someone who agrees with me. He also had research to back up his views. I can accept that.

Blind "RIDGID is a Ryobi in orange" is frustrating. I know we are being accused in other forums of being RYOBI cultists, but I don't see that. But most of these posters add insults and sarcastic remarks to their posts instead of just sticking to the facts. Problem is, when you take out their insults and sarcastic remarks, there are no facts. Just opinions based on walking by a tool once in 1987. What crap!

Stick to facts or opinions you can support with research or good sources! Experience with a tool beats reading about it. Reading about it beats speculating about it. And all of them beat making it up.

[Paul M.]

spowell,
I'm glad you posted this, as I was considering doing this as well. I don't consider myself an old timer on the board (joined in September of 2002), nor a frequent poster. Here are my thoughts...

1) We can, and must, be willing to disagree without being disagreeable
2) In my opinion, this board has started to stray away from being a woodworkers bulletin board, and is heading down the path of becoming a Ridgid fan club
3) We must stop all personal attacks. Most people are good judges of others. They will know who to trust without someone feeling like they must identify "the idiots"
4) I own tools from Ridgid, General, Makita, Craftsman, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Porter Cable, Delta, etc...No one company has all of the right tools for me. I have little respect for tool brand bigots, but I won't publicly rebuke anyone for acting so
5) No tool is perfect. When giving people your experience with a tool, point out the good and the bad points
6) The Ridgid brand has made a major change in their operations. Time will cure the product quality and the customer service problems, so be patient.
7) I believe this forum is the best place to mention problems with C/S, quality or design. It is our best chance of getting the people who can fix the problems to notice.
8) When someone criticizes a tool you like, don't take it personally.
9) When someone praises a tool you dislike, don't take it personally.
10) Be willing to say "I might be wrong...".

Ok, soap box is put away. Happy woodworking to all.

Paul M.

[UO_Woody]

It's all my fault. I lost my cool over the band saw issue. That's what started it all. Reguardless what I felt like I had the right to do, I did not.
I opened a can of negitivity, it's a poison, and it's infecting everyone. Personal self control is the only hope we have.

[Paul M.]

John,
I don't believe that for a minute, and neither should you! You are someone who's opinion I greatly appreciate, and who's posts I always read.
Paul

[spowell]

I'll second that Paul M.

Woody,

I don't think that the problem is people posting experiences or opinions. I think the problem is how they are posting it. I don't want to get on the soapbox again, I'm on it enough in the other topic. I had hoped to shift those involved over there into this topic so that it could be reasonably discussed.

I agree with Paul M. about everything he posted. I realize that this forum will always be more pro-RIDGID than most simply because it is RIDGID's forum. But where people could post for and against products previously, now people are afraid of what will follow.

Woody, I followed your bandsaw saga closely since I also have the BS. I didn't see you get attacked for expressing your concerns / complaints. I hope most did like I did and check the items you had problems with. But lately everything is personal. We need to get beyond that and back to the forum we all joined. I would hate to see this forum become another WoodNet.

[tcaniff]

I too have been reading with great dismay all the non-woodworking issues. Thought I had found someplace to ask questions and get answers from more knowledgable people than myself, not wanting them to always agree. I like to cruise this website to see what the questions are and what the responses are so that I may learn something without asking. Anyway, to all those who freely share their hard earned knowledge, let me say thank you and may I be the first on this site to say Happy Holidays to all.
Ted

[Scrap Maker]

When Ridgid announced they wpould no longer make our tools, the pot dropped in the fire. It seemed everyone was on the Neg. side and because the Ridgid Moderators did not step in with even a reply,howdy,or hi, This for um just seemed to implode on the negative material and thoughts. We all felt in the past that we had Jake to rely on until Ridgid canned him. Yes we got new Ridgid people, but they don't seem to care like Jake did. Even I abandon Ridgid when I purchased a new Jet Cab. Saw instead of the 3612 I really wanted. This is not saying that there is no Ridgid equipment in my shop (In fact it is about 50/50). There were times when I felt the need to support Ridgid because of the newbies attacking "The web site" or "The ugly orange" etc. Now the web site is OK and the Orange isn't as bad as one and all thought it would be. Yes,there are some problems with the new tools, and I'll surely hope they get them smoothed out. At this time I am not anti-Ridgid and as I said in the past "Hell with *****in' and lets make sawdust. Rick (Rad Realist) To everyone -- Have a great Christmas. Sorry it is so long!

[RRitch]

What has happened. I have been away for a while involved in other things, and when I come back WOW. First I find out that Jake is no longer here :( and then I start looking at posts. Does not appear that this is the same forum that it used to be. At one time this was the best forum that I was involved with, but now I am afraid that it is following the lead of so many others with nothing but complaints and flame wars. All I can say is this is sad, and I hope it gets back to what it was before.

[rrmcbride]

Originally posted by RRitch:
What has happened. I have been away for a while involved in other things, and when I come back WOW. First I find out that Jake is no longer here :( and then I start looking at posts. Does not appear that this is the same forum that it used to be. At one time this was the best forum that I was involved with, but now I am afraid that it is following the lead of so many others with nothing but complaints and flame wars. All I can say is this is sad, and I hope it gets back to what it was before. I recommend you read all the posts and get up to speed on the new Ridgid...then you will understand what happened..while you were gone....

[shootbreeze]

I am very new to reading the forum, but it appears some people just have the habit of criticizing everything and anything someone else likes. Can't change that. Like I heard somewhere don't remember where some negative remarks on the ridgid drill chuck, and hints of made in China. The 1/2in chuck on the x2 drill I got is made by Jacobs and I think it says made in Germany underneath it. That is a good chuck. My x2 has a slight play in the front bearings, but it is not the chuck. The drill still works fine, I drilled one inch holes through six inch concrete and used it for mixing buckets of thinset mortar instead of my old 1/2 in corded drill. The gearbox helps a lot but the drill just powers right through everything and sounds very smooth an unstrained. The handling and control placement is very nice. I got the 12v. to save weight. It was a total bargain. I see no resemblance to the Ryobi tools and even if they are made by the same company, it is a different design and different specs. Just like GM makes little cheap cars and big expensive ones.

[hewood]

The problem of personal attacks and overly negative generalizations about tools is detectable on just about every WWing forum I've visited. Some are worse than others due in part to the level of moderation and the member requirements. It tends to flare up and die down a bit depending on topics and people participating.

I enjoy good debate/discussion about tools, techniques, materials, and merchandising etc. It's a really great education about a passion of ours and should be encouraged. Too often a broad negative and largely unfounded opinion is posted from someone with an obvious hostile attitude. It is so much more beneficial to let us know what the dislike is or why the opinion was formed.

Facts when possible, reasons for an opinion if there's no facts, no response if there's neither.

[RRitch]

The problem of personal attacks and overly negative generalizations about tools is detectable on just about every WWing forum I've visited. That has been my experience as well, and for the most part I accept that. However, One of the things that I liked best about this forum was that it was not like that here. Of course there were far fewer registered users then. I guess this is what you could call growing pains.

[Josh]

Guys,
We really are trying to fight the personal attacks on the forum. Some actions go unnoticed but we do try to prune out posts with personal attacks as well as warn the people making the attacks.
Some posts may be percieved as personal attacks by some members. We have targeted the more blatant attacks for action. If we "deal" with every controversial post then even more members would complain that posts that they feel need to be dealt with are being left alone.
We will step in on name calling and direct insults. Some members feel that if someone disagrees with their post then that is a direct insults or esentially calling them a liar by disagreeing with them. Everyone just has to remember that there are always going to be differing opinions on just about everything you could post. And yes some of the replys refuting a statement are just straight up incorrect statements about the products. In most cases members point out the false info. We have posted a ton of replies to the same issues being brought up over and over. Especially dealing with the warranty. If you want an official statement on each and every thread that argues a topic please do a search on the forum and post a link to the threads where Brandman or one of us makes a statement to back up you argument.
I'm sorry if you feel that the moderators of this forum are dropping the ball. We are trying to keep this forum as open as posible. We don't like the guys that come in and post negative things about us without having ever touched the tools or used them. But I feel that those posts are usually very obviously incorrect and unfounded.
One last thing... PLEASE... if you feel that a post needs moderator attention then hit the allert icon (whistle icon) at the bottom of the post. This will send us notification of the thread and we will take a look at it and evaluate wheather it needs our attention.

Thanks for your concern for the forum,

Josh

[RRitch]

Originally posted by Josh:
I'm sorry if you feel that the moderators of this forum are dropping the ball.
Josh Josh,

If that is directed at me, than I must apologize if that is what it sounds like I am saying. I was not questioning the moderators, just what has changed. I have been doing some reading and it seems like there may be a few bad apples that like to turn posts into personal attacks, but it looks like there is still alot of good information here as well. BTW I actually came back to post my observations between the TS 2424 that I own and the TS 3650 that my dad just bought, but that seems to be a sore subject so I think I will hold off on that one.

[Josh]

RRitch,
Wasn't directed at you. There are some members that point the finger at the moderators and tell us what we need to do to make the forum better. The forum isnt intended to be customer service for our users. Nor did we intend it to be a place to make announcements and explain them. Some of that goes on but that wasnt what we put the board up for. We don't have a "RIDGID Forums team" Its mostly just people around our company that are willing to keep an eye on the forum along with their other job responsibilities. Norm and I are web developers so a lot of what is brought up, we can't answer. In fact neither of us have ever made anything in a wood shop (except for HS shop) I do have the new 4 piece power tools combo. Requested and received a set for Christmas (purchased from HD at full price... well actually 20% (sale)) because I believe in our tools. And I think they are a sound investment. We started the forum 3 years ago as a place for our customers to discuss Ridgid products and the professions they are used in. It has changed over the years but I still feel it is just as valuable.

This forum is never going to be perfect. And yes some people will post ignorant false information. And it may not be replied to by an official statement from us. Some of it will. We do desire to improve the forum while keeping it as open a discussion as possible.

Later,

Josh

[rrmcbride]

Originally posted by Josh:
RRitch,
Wasn't directed at you. There are some members that point the finger at the moderators and tell us what we need to do to make the forum better. The forum isn't intended to be customer service for our users. Nor did we intend it to be a place to make announcements and explain them. Some of that goes on but that wasn't what we put the board up for. We don't have a "RIDGID Forums team" Its mostly just people around our company that are willing to keep an eye on the forum along with their other job responsibilities. Norm and I are web developers so a lot of what is brought up, we can't answer. In fact neither of us have ever made anything in a wood shop (except for HS shop) I do have the new 4 piece power tools combo. Requested and received a set for Christmas (purchased from HD at full price... well actually 20% (sale)) because I believe in our tools. And I think they are a sound investment. We started the forum 3 years ago as a place for our customers to discuss Ridgid products and the professions they are used in. It has changed over the years but I still feel it is just as valuable.

This forum is never going to be perfect. And yes some people will post ignorant false information. And it may not be replied to by an official statement from us. Some of it will. We do desire to improve the forum while keeping it as open a discussion as possible.

Later,

Josh I think you have hit the nail on the head...I along with a lot of others I bet, joined this Ridgid forum thinking that it was the Ridgid forum on the Ridgid web site and that this would be the place to find out from Ridgid what's new and what's going on and how Ridgid is going to fix problems we are having with our Ridgid tools...Even the list of topics makes you think that....

But if you are only here to tell us not to fight and remove posts you don't think are good and not help us with problems we might be having or questions we would like answered. It seems like Ridgid is dropping the ball again...Funny they have the money for TV commercials to trick you into buying, but not any to help after the sale...

One good thing about this forum. I have learned that I really don't want a Ridgid band saw or a Ridgid jointer.

[Andrew M.]

Josh, I was sent an email,a few weeks ago,from Ridgid that said one of the ways that the ts3650 stand issues would be answered was in the forum. This was the answer to my question as to how Ridgid planned to contact us when they had a fix,since CS said they have no way of entering info in there system for unresolved issues and returning back to the owners. At the time they said they were working on a fix for the stand.
I was able, in the past thru Jake, to have things resolved in the forum as one way. He always came thru for me. He does not have that job now.
Do you have a specific system now? Why can not a follow up data base be used for problems not resolved such as in response to the email I sent by email. Why did you say the forum is not such a place, when the response to the email I sent said that was one way to look for Ridgid to tell us as to the status for problem resolution?
Do you know what the policy is? The last phone call to support said I would have to keep calling until they got part numbers for the side panels and they have no way to take my info and send them when they became available. This is not very convenient for the owners. You need to have a clear policy as to how to handle these issues, and the forum unless moderated by someone like Jake, who responded to questions, is not a good place for that.

[woodworkerjake]

This is all very interesting. From what I have just heard about the moderators, I can't quite figure out the purpose of this website anymore. I'm amazed it still is available with the RIDGID sponsorship.

*scratching head*

Jake

[Norm]

Originally posted by woodworkerjake:
This is all very interesting. From what I have just heard about the moderators, I can't quite figure out the purpose of this website anymore. I'm amazed it still is available with the RIDGID sponsorship. Gosh, Jake; you know there is more to the website than just this Forum. ;)

And Andrew, Josh didn't say that customer service issues and technical questions wouldn't be addressed here. He just said that CS isn't the primary reason we developed the Forum area.

By the way, there is a place on the website to direct those kind of questions and issues, and it's here (http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Contact-Us/index.htm).

Some moderators are more involved than others. Josh and I try to address all the issues that involve the website, but don't ask us technical questions about the tools.

By the way, pet peeve; people who address emails about customer support and technical issues to "webmaster@ridgid.com". I guess they assume that I will forward them to the right person, but as I pointed out previously, we built a place on the site for that. It's called Contact Us and it's listed under Support.

[woodworkerjake]

Norm,

I understand that there IS more than technical issues. However, there are many web forums for the questions asked here. My reference was specifically that this forum was still around in referrence to "it's sponsored by RIDGID with all their logos, etc pasted all over the forum." It's a little odd when people who do web development and have never picked up a tool for which this site is supporting are moderating a woodworking forum as well. Just my opinion. I like the forum and find it helpful for me and for others. Just surprising is all.

Jake

[Norm]

Josh and I aren't moderating any of the tool specific areas, just the General Discussion topics.

[Andrew M.]

Dear Andrew,



I apologize for the delay in response on your TS3650 stand. There are no side braces available at this time. Our product development department is exploring the opportunity at this time and our customers will be made aware when we have the resolution.





Best regards,



Ernie Swords

Director, Service Operations

ernie.swords@owt-inc.com

Norm this was the email, in the post previous was when I asked, How we were going to be informed?,the response was the "forum would be one way". He did not say where on the forum. I did not save that email to show you,but as you can see I did not send a tech question to you. I used the suport area as you suggested. I just think Ridgid should contact us(in a data base list of those who need help) when they solve a problem and not have us continually calling, sending emails etc. when Ridgid knows there is a problem and is working on a solution. How do we know when it is resolved? The response was "call back in a week" or " the forum is one way". This is not acceptable in my opinion,it is a waste of time for all concerned. Should we have to keep looking at the forum(and where was not mentioned) or calling CS? There should be a consistent policy. Previously, Jake, would solve it and we did not have to keep contacting Ridgid repeatedly. I guess we were spoiled by the job he did. I know you are under going changes, but this is not that complicated to have a call back/response list or email notification. I does not look organized.

[RGad]

Norm and Josh:

I enter this thread with some trepidation. I've been on this forum for a long time, and it was once the first thing I turned to each day when I had a few minutes I could call my own. The forum performed two distinct functions, both quite well: (a) it was a place where folks could ask (and thanks to guys like Dave Arbuckle) get answers to woodworking "how to" questions, and (b) it was a place where folks could ask questions about Ridgid tools: sometimes questions of the customer service sort and sometimes questions about how the tools worked or why they were designed a particular way. These, too, were answered promptly, cheerfully and candidly. Jake Schnarre was a particularly important player, both from the perspective of personifying (in a very flattering way) the Ridgid company and in imparting to the forum a very professional air.

In the process, Ridgid became not just a seller of tools, but an organization for which its customers (and forum members) could develop some loyalty, and felt that loyalty was reciprocated.

In short, the company performed to a very high standard, and that inevitably created the expectation that it would continue to do so.

Then things changed. For better or worse, Ridgid has changed its business plan. The emphasis today is on a larger quantity of smaller-ticket products, and the relationship between the customers and the company has become more at arm's length. There is nothing a priori wrong with such a model, but it is the comparison between the way it is and the way it was that is causing some of the disaffection. It is a bit as if you showed up for a new year in school only to discover that the teachers you were comfortable with had all left and been replaced with folks who were much more business-like.

Let me give you two examples that may better illustrate what I'm trying to convey.

A couple of months ago I went out and bought an MSUV. Truly a great product: far and away the best design for a miter saw stand ever conjured and very nicely implemented. However, one small part was missing. No big deal, but I called the 800 number, spoke to a lady, and she said she'd get one out.

I more or less forgot about the matter for a month or so and then it dawned on me that I hadn't seen the promised part. So I emailed Bob Dueker, and he got it out in two days. But I shouldn't have had to bother him.

A wee bit ago, there was a series of long threads on this forum about the meaning of the "new" Ridgid warranty. Now, to be sure, some folks place entirely too much emphasis on a product's warranty, since if there is a problem, it will almost always become visible very promptly, and the difference between a 1-year warranty and a lifetime warranty is far less than the names imply. But the change from one to another made folks uncomfortable and they started asking questions the gist of which was to have the warranty restated in different language. You know and I know that the Ridgid folks on this forum could not answer those questions, because the essence of a formal written contract is that the contract speaks for itself and you cannot have employees purporting to "explain" it in ways that would end up modifying it. So the questions weren't answered, but no one explained to people why they weren't being answered.

I wish you guys well. Ridgid has always been a neat outfit, making great products and with a well-deserved loyal following. Things are changing and no one knows exactly how the changes will work out, but in the meantime - and I mean by no means to defend incivility - try to understand that your loyal fans are in some distress.

[michael stephen]

i think sometimes the forums were being used for personal attacks.. i have done a lot of cruising myself on this forum since i came back from a long hibernation. indeed so much had changed..

[LB]

HI My saw is attacking me. How do you do that to a saw. Oh maybe that is what I am trying to get to work is a saw not a person. Should have I addressed this at a person, then I would get a responce on how to get my saw to work or where to find a 1240LZ that works correctly. May I suggest something for whoever. If there are that many problems with these saws and tools, why not have a tool clinic at HD every so often. Where people can bring in there tools and see if it's there tool or themselfs that need fixing.

Just a thought.

[imported_ChrisinMD]

What heck the are saying you?

[imported_brantstx]

Me sure not either! You, too? :cool: