What is wrong with the TS3650's legs?

[imported_smart1]

Hello,

I was looking at the TS3650 in HD, and the legs seemed very weak. The whole thing shook without much effort. I noticed on the bottom of the legs there is small plastic pad about the size of a quarter -seems rather cheap to support something as heavy as this table saw...

Is this just a poorly assembled HD table saw, or is this thing really that poorly designed?

Keith

[RevEd]

Keith
I think your right the legs are a problem in fact it probably has kept me from buying a 3650. Where I live we have about 6 home Depots and in every one the saw shook like a hula dancer. In one store I showed the manager and they said was embarrassing and told the tool corral guy to take a look. He said he could fix it. It still shook but He asked me to check back this week which I will.
I think the problem is the legs on the 3612 and older machines had a formed corner the legs on the 3650 are a rounded.

[murphyr]

Morning, Just wanted to comment. I've had the 3650 for several months and see no problem with the legs. I've used the saw fairly hard and have so far no complaints. I set it up as per manual,
added folding outfeed table, and am looking into router extension to right side even with the added weight the saw is very stable. I've seen some say the saw is unstable and other users say it is fine. Since mine is fine can't say why others feel it is unstable. Alot of those on display are not assembled correctly. The displays I've seen are stuck together with alot of the hardware not tight or adjusted properly. I am happy with mine and would recommend it.
Rick.

[imported_wasaplaya]

Hi there...
I work at a Home Depot in Mass. I work in the tool corral and take my job very serious. I consider myself quite knowledgable when it comes to tools. Take my word...if this stand seems wobbly it is not Ridgid's fault. It all depends who puts the display together and whether they really care. When I have assembled any of the Ridgid stands my opinion is that they are quite well made with good materials and more of it than most. I have had no wobble problems that you speak of. I also assembled the stand that comes their new 12" laser compound miter saw and it is built very nicely without any flimsy material. There is no wobble on this stand at all and I point out the quality of materials to the customer. There happens to be a Ryobi table saw which is one of their top models standing in the same area in my tool corral and it is so wobbly that it truly is embarrassing. But the Ryobi rep has been in and out countless times and pays no attention to it. It is wobbly only because whoever put it together didn't even bother to tighten things up...anyway folks, that's my two cents worth...I think Ridgid tools are awesome...happy toolin...

[imported_smart1]

I read all your posts, and then when back to HD to give it a 10th look....I really would like to buy this table saw, I have a bunch of HD gift cards that I am stuck with, but no, I don't think this is an assembly problem... the metal legs seem flimsy and just don't seem well braced. But I think the biggest flaw is that all four legs are perched upon a small plastic pads at the base, so that each leg doesn't get to use the full perimeter of the leg end for support.

I pass....

[RevEd]

As promised I went back to the HD and as promised the tool corral guy had totally tweaked the 3650.

Here is my observations. The legs flex, i compared them to a Ryobi Bt3100 and old model Radial arm saw and the 3650 shook flexing the legs. Now will that be a problem? I don't know but it is not real impressive of a $600 machine.

I checked the fence and in my humble opinion it is better than many Beismeyer look alikes that deflect when you push on the outboard end of the fence. Is that flex a problem? Many say no the wood is past the blade by the time it applies pressure out there. Maybe so but to me it isn't real impressive either.

I checked the arbor and blade runout and to me it the 3650 has the most impressive arbor carriage of any contractor saw. I would say it compares to the Dewalt 746 and may be a little lighter than some of the cabinet saws.

The elevation crank is lower on the 3650 saw cabinet than any other contractor saw making it a lot easier to turn and not hit the bottom of the table or fence rail.

The motor is a shame. At least they could put a ridgid sticker on it or make the manufactures name larger. To me it looks like a $50 overseas copy of a real motor. However looks can be deceiving and I have no idea how it works.

The fit and finish of the 3650 seems impressive and I like the new cast iron extensions.

I don't like the placement of the bevel crank on the side to me it is tucked to far back and too high on the saw cabinet. However most saws aren't swing into bevel mode to very often.

Would I buy a 3650 I don't know?? Two things I don't like. I think they cheapened the legs to much. I don't think your getting your $600 worth on them. Also I don't think a parts supply infrastructure is in place yet to poorly handle warranty work form the storied I hear. If I can be convinced that if the motor or a bearing went out in arbor I could get it the part or have it repaired under warrantee within 3 days I would probably buy one.

My opinion of the 3650 at this point in time

[hewood]

Rev Ed - Your summary seemed pretty unbiased to me, and I agree with most of your points. There are a couple of things I'd add to the fence analysis. The 3650's fence is one of the better non-Biese types I've seen at this price point and it does lock down tightly b/c of the front/rear locking system, but that same system allows the fence to be locked out of parallel if the proper technique is not used. The old "there's no free lunch" analogy applies here. Most of the Biese types fences can be locked down to where the deflection is less than 1/64" at the rear end of the fence, meaning that deflection at the blade is some smaller portion of that. Most of the industry appears to embrace the pros of the Biese types.

Deflection and parallelism aside, the Biese types are typically far more ruggedly built than the Ridgid aluminum fence and rails. The fence handle and locking mechanism are plastic. A couple of good knocks to fence or the rails of the Ridgid could damage the fence. It's hard to imagine using a saw in a shop environment for a couple of decades and not have some damage occur. I'm also wondering how strong the plastic will be 20 years from now.

Regarding the trunnions, I agree that the DC shroud and handwheel location are welcome features, however the Ridgid's trunnions are made from die cast zinc where every other major TS I can think of uses cast iron....the stronger material. This concern probably poses less of a reliability issue, but the mere selection of the weaker material concerns me.

[ 04-05-2004, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: hewood ]

[imported_smart1]

Heeeeelloooo Ridgid,

Are you reading all these posts?!?!?!

We are not ridgid bashers...we WANT to buy your table saw. Better than having to wait 5 months to order the grizzly, site unseen --but with all the problems and general cheapness of your saw, it makes other saws look like a much better deal!

I can't believe a company would push out such a piece of junk!

[jirwin]

I've owned the 3650 for 4 months now. With any saw in this price range, there will be some compromises.
Regarding the legs, I've had very little flex in mine. I don't use it to cut 4x8 plywood (that's what the circular saw in the garage is for ;) ).
The poor performance at HD likely had more to do with the improper setup or the wheels of the mobile base not completely disengaging the floor. After moving mine, I have to make sure the wheels are off the floor.
Also check to make sure the plastic leveling feet are in as far as possible. The leveling feet work well for me on my undulating basement floor.
The fence has been rock solid. Once again, I'd question the setup at the store. Some company on these posts excluded, we will spend significantly more time setting up our tools than the folks at HD take setting up the demos.
Overall, the 3650 is a good saw for the money. There are a few others that compare well (Griz, Jet), but as I said at the top, each has it's pros and cons. I don't think you cold go wrong any way you went.

[imported_ByteButcher]

Sorry to beat this dead horse, but the problem isn't the legs. It's either the lack of bracing on the sides, or the attachment of the legs to the saw. The round corners have nothing to do with it. The side to side stiffness is fine because of the solid panels. Front-to-back however, there is much less stiffness. With no diagonal bracing, the stress must be carried through the leg attachment which is quite flexible. To check it out yourself, put a finger tip on the joint where the leg attaches as close to the center of the saw as possible. Then rock the saw front-to-back and you can feel how much the joint flexes. The bolt is just not well placed to transmit the bending force across the joint. Just for an experiment, I clamped 4 vise-grips over the joint as close to the inside corner of the "L" formed by the leg and saw frame as practical. The front-to-back flex was 90% eliminated.
The 3650 isn't going to fall over folks. But if you want to stiffen it up there are at least 2 options:
1. Add diagonal bracing or solid side panels of your own. The holes are already there.
2. Clamp the legs on better. Either 4 more bolts close to the center of the L (preferably with some thick washers made from 1/8" or better flat bar). Or, a longer, thicker bar (maybe 2" long, 1/2" thick)using the original holes and longer bolts. Or even easier, four cheap C-Clamps.

[lgldsr]

Just my .02.

I've been using the TS-3650 for sometime now and have absolutely zero complaints; I've found it to be, quite frankly, equal to or better than comparable models from other manufacturers. I won't include Craftsman in the comparison as their quality is but a skeleton of what it was 20 years ago.

Unequivocally, I can state without hesitation or reservation that Ridgid's response to any issues I've raised about any of their products has been patently outstanding. As a Network Administrator in the Computer Industry I'd like to see these manufactures respond anywhere near as quickly as has Ridgid; I'd consume far less Tums and Advil.

As far as the legs go...mine are rock solid and I cannot help but wonder if it was simply a matter of the way same was assembled?

Thanks!

[SCWood]

If you have a leg flex problem, tighen it up. I make furniture with my 3650 which includes ripping full sheets of plywood. I have had no problems and I do it alone. It is not fun, but flex is not a problem.

As far as the forum, what do you expect. For a while the forum became a Ridgid bashing and they did not shut it down. Even though it ran off some our most knowledgable people, Dave A for one.

I have a Ridgid TS, jointer, ms and drill, have not needed cs. But,before I bought I contacted Ridgid repair center near me went over and talked to them. They told me when new products came in they had some lag time on parts, who dosen't. If you do not have a service center maybe you need to think twice about it. You are buying from a big box what do you expect.

If you want top service go to a small shop and pay the price for it.

My .02
Steve

[RevEd]

SCWood I'm not saying the leg flex will cause a problem, but to deny it is there is troubling.

I have about 6 home Depots in my area. In one I was there when the store manager told the tool corral guy to set the saw up right. I heard him and I also know the tool corral guy did exactly what the manager told him. He set the machine up as excellent as could humanly possible. Yet in all those stores if you take a hold of one corner of the 3650 saw and push it front and back the saw will flex on the legs. That is a fact.

It is also fact I have tried this with every other saw I have seen set up, Delta, Craftsman, Jet, Powermatic, Ryobi, HF, General, Shopfox and even an old 3612 and none of them moved. That is a fact.

I’m not the only one that has noticed this flex. It has been reported many times and there are even fixes offered for it. That is a fact.

So for you say there isn’t a flex seems odd.

Now is that flex going to cause a problem I don't know, but I will say, to me at least, it isn't real impressive and makes me think twice about spending $600. I would think Ridgid would rectify this immediately rather than just ignoring it.

[zxaaxz]

At the bottom of this post you can see what I did to stiffen the legs. It was easy and cheap. Should you have to do something like this? /shrug. It was easy and I have no problem messing with things to make them perform as I like.

forum pictures of leg braces (http://www.ridgid.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000213)

[SCWood]

Rev Ed
I did not say there was flex or not, what I said it is not a problem. I do not stand in front of my saw and see how much i can flex it. What I do is cut 4x8 sheets of ply through it and do not have a problem.
Is it as strong or good as a $1,000 to $2,000 saw, no. But I only paid $540 for it our a 10% sale last year.
I make furniture and it works great, would I rather have a Uni you bet I would.
Steve

[imported_smart1]

I called ridgid tools and told them about the wobble in the their tables saws.... they said they would send out a rep to "correct the problem".... well they did send out the rep, and the problem did get a tad better, but the table saw STILL wobbles like a bowl of jello......

Me think they know they have lemons on their hands, and hence the recent fire sale discounts on their so called table saw (In the case of ridgind I use that term loosely)...

[Lorax]

Originally posted by smart1:
I called ridgid tools and told them about the wobble in the their tables saws.... they said they would send out a rep to "correct the problem".... well they did send out the rep, and the problem did get a tad better, but the table saw STILL wobbles like a bowl of jello......

Me think they know they have lemons on their hands, and hence the recent fire sale discounts on their so called table saw (In the case of ridgind I use that term loosely)... tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif X 10

[Huffer]

I think scwood nailed it. If its not perfect fix it! As for other people thinking HD has a lemon on there hands, I dont think something that doesn't really present a problem makes the saw a lemon. The problem is you want a $600 saw to be as good as a $2500 saw. Buy a Uni or Jet and look at how solid the legs are for hours on end.

[Ralf]

hi all

i have extensive experience with industrial grade table saws and this are my two cents.

for starters a commercial/industrial table saw will cost you as much as 4 folds more. at the moment this table saw is currently priced at $550 at HD which isn't bad for the money.

the legs are indeed weak and do wobble a bit, in my experience it wasn't much of a problem as it is possible to rip full sheets of plywood if as with any other saw your are set up right. from my observation (and like some one mentioned earlier on this thread) the wobble problem can be helped a great deal with the addition of some diagonal braces and some beefier bolts.

as i am used to working with much powerful industrial table saws i noticed the motor of this saw is noticeable weak but what can you expect from a sub $600 saw? the fence it self is also weak, very weak as a matter of fact but like i said, for the price you're all ready getting plenty.

if any thing, a little bit of ingenuity can cure the wobble, the motor is strong enough to do the job (i can't account for its longevity though) but the fence guide leaves much to be desired. if you absolutely need dead on accuracy then i suggest installing a biesemeyer fence kit.

all in all the ts 3650 isn't a bad table saw for the money

[scrambler28]

Hi Everyone!
I'm new to this forum but i also wanted to chime in about the TS3650's legs. I too have been in the market for a new table saw and considered the 3650 until every Home Depot I've been to has had a display with wobbly legs. The tool guys at those places have also blamed it on poor setup because of it only being a display model. Well, if that's the case then 1.why is every one noticing it and 2.why are the other display models from different manufacturers stable? Do they just do a poor job on the Ridgid saws? If i'm going to fork out that kind of cash I think the stand, which i'm assuming would be the cheapest part to manufacture, would at least be stable. At this point I thinking seriously about the new Craftsman 22114.

Thanks

[ 01-05-2005, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: scrambler28 ]

[imported_Knot Me]

Do they just do a poor job on the Ridgid saws? Yes, and the HD people also make a special effort to dig a trough in the arbor of the 3650 so it won't spin a dado correctly. :D
At this point I thinking seriously about the new Craftsman 22114.You and alot of other smart people in this price range.

[slickrick]

My TS3650 motor went out after about a month. Luckily, an authorized repair center was within 20 miles. Took the motor in (not the whole saw, only after a quick phone call) and had a brand new one back in less than 2 weeks. Not terrific, but at least I didnt have to ship it off to Egypt.

[IButler]

What is wrong with the 3650's legs?

Nothing. If you grab the saw and push and pull on it, will the base flex slightly? Sure it will. Is there a practical limit in cost and weight in a contractor's saw base to the amount of material that can be incorporated? Of course.

Does the slight flex ever actually affect the functionality of the saw in its intended purpose? No. In no normal use will you ever exert the amount of side forces required to make the flex. Think about it; you press forward on the saw with only a few pounds force when feeding work into it. The slight fraction of an inch it might move will not be descernable without a dial caliper.

To read the above posts one would believe the saw wiggles like it is supported from a rope.

I really have no idea what the issue is here.

[Woussko]

OK Here is comes, my one cent worth.

How about looking hard for a good used Delta Unisaw or USA made Powermatic model 66 and not have all of these problems? They are out there and I've seen some nice ones in the $600-$800 range. Now you have a real machine that's worth adding to and a lasting investment where if you do need to sell it later on you'll get most if not all of your money back.

[Bob D.]

"I really have no idea what the issue is here."

Spoken like someone from the design team(my guess), not a user. Could it be? Or is it just coincidence that you list your location as Ohio, home state of RIDGID.

I don't bother checking people's profiles, people are free to write in there whatever you want, there is no way to validate it. I could say I was a VP of Marketing for Emerson Tool or I could say I am a used car salesman, there would be no way to know for sure for the average user here.

Anyway, what I think most people are seeing and gives them a bad impression of the saw is the poorly assembled floor models you will find in 8 out of 10 stores.

If you went to a car dealers lot and a new vehicle had a nice big puddle of tranny fluid under it would you think twice about buying it? I'll bet you would.
How is a shaky display model any different? It's all the customer has to judge the quality of the item they are about to put out a decent chunk of cash for. They're basically buying it sight unseen, you've got to expect people to be hesitant when the display is not assembled correctly or has parts missing or damaged.

[garager]

When I was looking at the TS3650, man oh man was that sucker wiggly, at the store that is. The rest of the saw looked absolutely awesome. I new the bolts were all lose on the stand, because I got down on my knee's and looked. I also new if I had to strengthen the stand up I could, so far I do not need to do that to mine. All in all, absolutely a fantastic saw for that price.

[IButler]

Bob,

You would not by chance wear aluminum foil on your head and hang out near area 51, would you?

Yes, you have caught me. I am a Ridgid engineer who assumes a false identity and makes false claims on websites in a grand conspiracy to deceive people into buying our products. Also, I am new at this, so I forgot to enter a false state.

You should apply to the NSA, assuredly they could use someone with your keen investigative skills.

IButler

[garager]

Bob,

You would not by chance wear aluminum foil on your head and hang out near area 51, would you?

Yes, you have caught me. I am a Ridgid engineer who assumes a false identity and makes false claims on websites in a grand conspiracy to deceive people into buying our products. Also, I am new at this, so I forgot to enter a false state.

You should apply to the NSA, assuredly they could use someone with your keen investigative skills.

IButler

HaHaaaaa :D :D :D :D , what is this world coming to.

[Gofor]

I guess you could think I am a Ridgid plant also, because I am very satisfied with the TS3650. There are some prerequisites that the manufacturers do not put in the manual that many people fail to read anyway. (Rant mode: "On" because of some of the drivel I see posted)
1. The manufacturer assumes you are more intelligent than the tool. You can prove this by reading the owner's manual. If you read it and do not understand it and post a question: Good on Ya! You have proved you are smart enough to know what you don't know and seek knowledge to understand it. If you are having problems and have not read the manual, please get off your lazy "I want you to hand me everything without me working for it" behind and take the time to do so. Or, take the saw back and consider another hobby.
2. The high cost of today's tools are not totally the result of tool manufacturers trying to "screw you". A large part of the cost is due to the people not smarter than the tool, who don't read the manual or have a clue about personal responsibility to "think" before acting that, however, are crafty enough to hire an ambulance-chasing lawyer to sue for megabucks in front of an equally clueless jury who thinks that the government and the supplier should make them absolutely safe from their own stupidity.
3. Taking the above two points into consideration, you are not going to get heavy industrial grade power, stability, and longevity in a 110v tool for 1/4th the price.

Realize the grade of tool you have and work within the tool's capabilty. A man who trys to have his one ox pull the load of two soon ends up with only one dead ox and none to pull the wagon.

JMTCW
Go

PS The only Ridgid tools I own are several pipe wrenches, the TS3650, and a shop vac. I only have a s much credibility as any other poster on the internet, which is nada. (Rant mode: "Off")

[djb]

Wobbly legs on my TS3650 are a non-issue. See my comment #4 on this post (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7585&page=4&p=64546).

- djb

PS - No, I am not a Ridgid plant on this forum... ;)

[jdnret]

I've had my 3650 for 8 months. I wheel it in and out of my garage regularly to work with. The legs are quite steady and I do not sense any wobble when sawing.
The saw cuts true to square and had not had to tighten any components. My fence also locks into place with no movement.

The only improvement I'd like to see is moving the bevel adjuster to a more convenient access point. Stooping down on one knee to adjust the bevel is not my favorite thing to do.

[djame]

Have my legs been flexing...yep For the better part of the little over a year I've had my saw there has been an annoying forward and back rocking . :confused: Went out last night determined toget to the bottom of it, literally.Crawling around the cold garage floor, I found that every screw that attaches the legs to the saw was loose.:eek: A 'couple so loose they just dangled. Once i tightened them down the saw stood rock solid

djame:D

[melchman]

just bought my TS yesterday... started the assembly today...the legs are solid!!!

great site....great info

[Bob D.]

Hello,

I was looking at the TS3650 in HD, and the legs seemed very weak. The whole thing shook without much effort. I noticed on the bottom of the legs there is small plastic pad about the size of a quarter -seems rather cheap to support something as heavy as this table saw...

Is this just a poorly assembled HD table saw, or is this thing really that poorly designed?

Keith

The leg set is a bit shaky but I doubt that a properly assembled saw is as bad as the one on display. There are a few easy tricks to improving the stability of the 3650, do some searching and you should find at least three or four long threads on this subject with some pics of various users solutions.

[c.demille]

I just purchased the TS3650 earlier this month and I personally thought the legs are quite sturdy. I don't see flex being an issue for me.

[harrison2119]

At the bottom of this post you can see what I did to stiffen the legs. It was easy and cheap. Should you have to do something like this? /shrug. It was easy and I have no problem messing with things to make them perform as I like.

forum pictures of leg braces (http://www.ridgid.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000213)
I don't know what this link is supposed to show it just takes me to the main page and no pictures

[NailBanger]

Harrison the link doesnt work because it is almost 4 years old

[Robert58]

I have purchased the TS 3660. By no means is this a piece of junk. Maybe I dont try to be as critical as most of you guys. Sure there are a couple of things I would like to see changed but when it comes down to it I am totally satisfied. Maybe it is just that I am very thankful to have such a good table saw especially since I came from an old direct drive Craftsman. I am a retired machinist and have been enjoying woodworking for the past 35 years. I admit I wish the legs on my 3660 were a little stiffer but sometime in the future when I get time I will remedy that problem myself. Right now I am too busy making sawdust.

[Pogster]

Interesting replies. Most of the complaints/concerns about this saw come from those who have never actually used the saw. Those that have used it don't find the legs a serious issue. Me thinks the guys that have actually used the saw have more credibility.

[Andrew M.]

I used one, the first model and they were not very stable in my view. The saw could be twisted and I had issues cutting heavy sheet goods. They even had a pic for a while on this site of leg panel type braces, which soon disappeared from this site when we asked if we could get them. The main problems are the countersinking of the carriage bolts leaving little surface contact on the braces which is just a bad idea, and the type or gauge of the steel. My saw base was also an issue in connecting to the legs, it would flex and it would also bow outward at the 45* bevel stop. My older sears emerson saw did not do that. I am much happier with my Unisaw and CM 22124, both with commercial Biesmeyer fences. I personally would not want any contractor saw with the hybrid designs available. The newer saws may be different, but it is a light weight build with zinc alloy trunnions, Al fence/rails. I also did not like the holes in the CI wings. For the money I think you are better off buying a used Cab saw, or hybrid . The LSA is worthless if you have to take your saw over 3hr round trip 2x's to a service center in LA traffic, and I was not about to repair/replace the defective arbor myself.