TS3650 Economics for Dummies

[imported_maineman]

I think most of us appreciate the fact Ridgid hit a good balance between fair and smart about getting a good saw into this price range.

I have 2 other Ridgid tools. Consider each to be better values than the comparable Makita and Milwalkee. In fact I got the lifetime battery replacement so the last thing I’d be arguing for here would be some campaign that would jeopardize the existence of the Ridgid name, no matter who owns it.

So, even though I’m pretty vehement on the matter of the 3/32”, it’s really more the resale value or the reputation of the saw which - if say I owned stock in the company - I’d be most interested in advancing.

If anyone in the company is actually monitoring this site, then it seems to me they would move on these small issues and get them to market as soon as they can.

Two things about the 3650 arbor length issue bother me. One is that it even exists. The other is that lower sales volume could equate to shakier warranties for all of us. The engineers who shaped this saw can probably all afford better saws than this.

Sorta like the Social Security reform effort.

I don’t trust short sighted corporate profit taking. I like longevity in a name. I want to see if the day ever comes when Home Depot itself is still using the name Home Depot, and isn’t conveniently bought up and renamed and has legal grounds for telling me my Ridgid lifetime battery warranty is worthless. Legal larceny?

So the sooner the company responds to marketability issues, the better for it’s stockholders and generally speaking right now, all over the country these yuppie grunts in management who never had a callous in their lives, are running these offices and driving these name changes and aren’t doing the jobs they should be doing. Their careers are pretty much revolving doors. They’re faceless.

And what do they “do” exactly, except to come over to this site as an example and sweet talk and otherwise annoint a few of you guys as being the online heart and soul of the Ridgid spirit. And you get snookered into doing even that danged part of their job. They’re shooting golf while you hang out on websites.

It shortchanges you and me and anyone who, get this, owns stock. It’s short term greedy short-sightedness and that’s essentially the thing that I’m battling here, every bit as much as the 3/32”. Actually we’ll want the other 1/32” for good measure if anyone’s taking notes.

I think you just have to try and imagine how you reacted the first time you saw the price tag of this saw and began to look it over more closely.

Now. Imagine future members #10,003 thru #15,003 walk into their respective HD’s and their wives have heard TS horror stories and about how dangerous TS’s can be and lo and behold HDguy can say this saw has a 2” exposure arbor and can use the washer with a full dado set. Hell, Sears might even begin to lose sleep.

Do you see where I’m going here? If that were the case there’s a much better chance the saw in your house right now will have a better resale value because the Ridgid name survived.

Otherwise, what. Guys like Jake get to go to a banquet and glowingly tell the stockholders their divs will remain up by $0.04 through the last quarter because his team saved as much as they did on a 1/4” of arbor steel?

What sense does it make to come this close, corner this price range, then ruin all the work they did to get this good a saw onto the floors of such a popular chain. And maybe you know, I don’t, but does HD have a perpetual obligation to carry only Ridgid?

Could be. But even if they do, how often do we see these companies get around promised warranties, with the musical chairs and buyouts game. Absolving any parties from ever being accountable for promises made.

This is why you want to see the company being more responsive to longer term selling point recommendations. What you don’t want to see is these people on here naively towing the party line, letting faceless suits get away in the night with deflating the resale value of our saws, by not caring a lick what it’s reputation is liable to be in the field 3 years from now.

[woodslayer]

Maineman

While I’m not naive enough to believe the corporate suits have the shareholders best interest at heart I do not follow the logic of your passionate distrust of them relating to the resale value of our Table Saws. If you bought a new TS3650 and were fortunate enough to upgrade to a 3hp Cabinet Saw in 3 years and received 50 percent of your investment back it would translate to less than 10 cents per cut if you only averaged 20 cuts per week. Most woodworkers use their saws at a considerably higher rate than that and keep them for decades, which equates to a minimal cost over time. Most people will drive a new vehicle of a lot, and they have immediately lost 5 times the cost of a TS3650 and don’t think a thing of it. In the grand picture of our economic lives, a woodworking hobby is one of the best values out there just by virtue of the longevity we receive from our tools.

Woodslayer

[imported_Ray Bersch]

Woodslayer, I don't think you said it exactly right - let me see; Mainmain, let it go. Get off your horse and get cuttin some wood. You will likely find some loosening in that knot in your stomach and your day will go better. I, too, was awake at 4:30 this morning but I was surfin the web looking for ways to improve my woodworking - doesn't that sound like more fun?

[Cuj0HD]

maineman,
The only question I have is, Why would Home Depot ever tell you that a warranty for Ridgid is no good. That warranty is between you (the consumer) and Ridgid. Home Depot does not own any part of Ridgid So it would never have a say in what warranty is valid or not. If you bought the tool new the the warranty is intact even if HD is no longer around.

[imported_maineman]

It should be noted to anyone looking for conclusive information on these forums that a few very talented writers are as much caught up with vying with each other for top most rankings of having posted the most posts; as they are toward enlivening any particular discussion, instead of neutralizing it.

It could be this trend subsides as warmer weather comes along. I can’t say. I’ve not used this site in the warmer months since my TS3650 purchase. Instead I was using the saw. At night when I wasn’t using the saw, I was using the computer. Not for doing this I can assure you but for drafting upcoming projects. I also have a pretty foxy wife so I didn’t need another outlet for pure comraderie if you know what I mean. It’s one of the reasons I missed the arbor issue before purchasing a Freud Dado set which will not fit on the 3650 because of the short arbor. But I think I should be able to rely on a quality product to do what I bought it for so that I can evetually have a life other than making sawdust, or more aptly, cyberjive.

What I do sense is that within this group of people, is a mindset if you will, where comments made by them, seem intended to advance an illusion that they are being as helpful as helpful can be. Either that or they actually do feel each issue as strongly as others among us do about any given product, but they are doing this whether or not they own that particular tool. I personlly don't get that impression but you can believe what you choose.

If you have any doubts as to a commentor’s consistency or motives please don’t hesitate to use their member #’s in the "onsite search page" and study the patterns of their comments. It isn't hard. Just click on "search", above, and when that page loads down in the bottom box you'll see where you can just type or paste their member number. Click the search button there, and you'll get a whole list of mindnumbing threads, many of which will downright make your head spin.

I think you will find it to be one of the more entertaining aspects of this site. It doesn’t get much solved, resolved or accomplished though, because they spread themselves too thin and only make a token effort to relate to your particular concerns.

The sad result - particulalry with regard to customer satisfaction issues - is that you can imagine how less experienced newbies to the site, guys a little more shy about voicing their concerns, end up with the impression they are wrong or inferior to feel dissatisfied or ignorant about certain facts. A good one, an example of deflective info is stuff like which company now owns the owner of Ridgid and so on. We're not as ignorant as we are uninformed. And all we're trying to do here is to encourage the company to be more officially engaged with these issues publically. So far it's only being done through these mouthpieces so there really shouldn't be any way to feel shy about jumping in and asking questions.

Newcomers should not in any way be psychologically squelched from making posts here, but it is happening every day. They're doing it under the radar though. Very sophistacatedly. That’s what's happening when these people enter a thread and essentially toss in a whole line of talking out both sides of their mouths, disquise it as user friendly, and essentially fracture or blur any suggestion that a dollar bill should still be worth a dollar bill after corporate lawyers and advertising and very sophisticatedly country dumb customer service centers have their way with that customer satisfaction quotient. Meanwhile the corporate profit machine rolls on unchecked, not even slowing down to notice how much they are shooting themselves in the foot. I stated as clearly as I could that my logic follows the line of thinking that oh a whim corporations are not regulated very well as to how frequently they can up and sell themselves to another company, change their name, and substantially water down your warranty.

woodslayer - please explain how it would benefit or disadvantage you, a TS2424 owner, not a TS3650 owner, if the 3650 eventually became a blue ribbon performer? If I were you I’d be looking to picking up a used 3650 as quick as I possibly could. I doubt I’d be asking the seller if I could give him a tip after he gave me his rock bottom price.

What's that mean. It means that some of us will care more about this arbor issue than others will. Why, because we have one already. I personally have yet another spin. We plan to leave this house and my shop to our other daughter and son-in-law when he's discharged. She prays he'll return home safely while I just knock on whatever's handy. Could be why I'm going a little nuts about the way the way some people are putting down my efforts here.

It's a just great saw and they might have different reasons why it should stay the way it is. You can pick one up cheaper if you see one at an auction. So if I have a little table top saw right now, I'd really like to find a 3650. The 3650 was sold as having have long term value. I didn't see the planned obsolescence until I'd saved for the dado set I wanted.

Most won't shop for a dado head for well after 90 days you will notice. Blink and the 3 years will have gone by. But you can't care the same way about those time frames or about some cute planned obsolescence or corner cutting or pencil sharpening idiocy, unless you own that particlular model. You've got nothing vested so you don't feel the deception quite as accutely.

Like 50 years of successively improved model changes in the US automotive industry, where they essentially lost every natural market foothold they'd had, over to non-US companies who were listening more closely to what customers wanted.

I wish I could remember which one of these guys on here actually likes stating how this or that practice is something which he alone passes off as some officially legislated "industry standard". Reportedly these are guys hang out on this website and on another ww websites, I suspect probably more than my other daughter is on the phone. But she's 18 years old for heaven's sake.

[Rafael]

maineman, isn't ridgid replacing the arbors if you request it? If so, what's the problem? Am I missing something?
I rarely buy a new product because bugs frequently need to be worked out, the arbor is an example of that.

[imported_maineman]

Guys,

It's a discussion about consumerism and marketing as it relates to the value of tools over time.

The thread is not about the 3650, per se. My initial comments are not about the saw so much as they are about the longevity of tool warranties as those might have something to do with the value of a power tool. Doesn't anyone remember a store chain called Home Quarters Warehouse?

You're only contribution to the topic there is just pure groupspeak. Cool. Fine. Frankly I'd rather be woodworking but the shop ain't heated, or skiing, but Daytona's on today so decided to hang for the party.

How bout it Cuj0HD? What happens if HD did go out of biz. Do you think Ridgid has anywhere else they could go? Hey. K-Mart could use a good in house tool line come to think of it.

Or what if customers had to then pay freight for large Ridgid tools - catalogue direct mailorder - don't you think the edge might not then go to Grizzly in this price range?

These are the various corporate marketing and profit taking issues I'm hoping to examine in this thread. Just hadn't seen a thread talking about power tools from that perspective and wanted to discuss it with others so... my question is why say stuff which would squelch others from jumping in with similar observations about long term power tool value.

Probably don't have problems with knots 'cause I've never made it a practice to sheepishly chime in only by following the easiest popular opinion. It'd actually be harder for me to believe you guys didn't have full blown ulcers.

[daveferg]

Mainemain----obviously the previous responses to your posts aren't phasing you in the least. I will try one last time:

---As owners of 3650s have posted, and as I've pointed out, their arbor lengths are no different than most any other saw of the same class and likely, of most saws built for home and light commercial use.

---Second---you constantly bring up the "safety" issue in regards to not being able to put on the washer. Again, as I reported, the previous Emerson rep. said it wasn't necessary with a dado set.

---And as to safety, as I've tried to point out, with more chippers and blades, you have more resistance and greater chance of kick-back.

---And, BTW, are you even aware that Europeon table saws have shorter arbors, in that they felt so strongly about the safety issues in using dados, that they developed the short arbor standard to keep people from using dados.

Frankly, I don't know what your company and stock holder arguements have to do with this, and as to resale value---if you want top resale value---buy a Shopsmith or Delta tool.

And as to making denigrating comments about people on this board just trying to get star ratings, or whatever----with your 44 posts---is this the way you go into new places or forums----if you don't like it that people don't agree with you, that's the nature of this format, but we're sure not going to loose sleep over you and your rants. If you want to discuss an issue---great---but if you're judging this board by whether you get agreement with your views----dream on! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[imported_maineman]

Rafael,

Besides the issue you are seeimg in most of the other threads which is the recess near the arbor shoulder issue, there is a second issue on the arbor having possibly been re-spedified from previously phased out model specs.

Presumably from a table top model with a motor and frame capacity which would not support heavier and wider professional dado sets.

But nobody at Ridgid nor any of those commenting negatively to this issue, seem to have anything specific as to explain why they did not spec a completely professional arbor length for a their top of the line saw.

Some think it was might have been an honest oversight others suspect it might have been an intentional plan to use up dead parts out of inventory.

[imported_maineman]

Dave there is plenty of agreement on these matters and you're only validating every word I've suggested to the visitors about you're insisting on taking a dominant stance of next to everything that is said on these threads. Back off and let others chime in before you levy your final word. You have no official capacity on this site.

Please.

[daveferg]

Maineman----"back off"? No----it started out with your querry and responses, and I, by no means am the only one----but obviously, you know more than the rest of us combined---obviously, you have no need for a forum like this, since you seem to know everything and have no desire to hear contrary views.

[imported_maineman]

hey Dave,

Home depot is leading the Daytona, Check it out.

[imported_Ray Bersch]

Hay, guys, I think he's gone to watch the race. Whew!

[imported_maineman]

Hey Ray,

Good one. Think all your buddies did too.

[woodslayer]

Maineman

Sitting here contemplating whether your posts were worthy of a second response, I decided that it would be the lesser of two evils (the other being snow-blowing the driveway again). Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of your post and assumed you were concerned about the resale value of all tools carrying the Ridgid nameplate and not just the TS3650. That would not be surprising considering the fact that even though you possess quite the extensive vocabulary your endless ramblings are mind numbingly dull. Realizing that you may be slightly out of your element here, being the Captain of the Debate Team and attempting to fit in with down to earth people on a woodworking forum, you need to quit trying so hard and just give us a chance, we enjoy gathering and sharing woodworking knowledge and making sawdust much more than finding fault with each other, you are not impressing anyone.

Woodslayer

[scrambler28]

Maineman,

You sure write a lot of B.S. for a saw that costs the same as 2 weeks of groceries. I wish I could get a free pack of cheese from the manufacturer after I get home and realize it's not enough for my recipe. However, I'm sure it's some sort of corporate scam to screw me so I guess I won't bother. Geez, It's only a $500 saw what do you expect? A Uni? By the way no one likes to listen to a self righteous, condescending windbag. Is
your real name John Kerry?

Scrambler28

[ 02-21-2005, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: scrambler28 ]

[rgrady]

He voted for the TS3650 before he voted against it....what a piece of work. Give him a week, his position will chyange.

[Shipwreck]

MainMan

I kinda lean towards the fact that ridgid probably has to outsource for alot of the pieces that go into the tools they make.

Given that fact, I asumme that the quality control for the arbor might have slipped through the cracks .Mayby the person/s who was assigned to that particular model for insuring QC slipped?

The workers in the Ridgid assmbly lines probably had no clue that they were installing a (out of spec)arbor. They are paid to assemble, not read micrometers.

The board members and share holders have no clue as to what a arbor IS anyways.........so how could you just assume that they are over looking this. They offer a replacement arbor for those who have the short ones.

I have bought many cars over the years that had recalls on them. I didn't stop me from buying from that company again.

The TS360 is a fine saw for the money. I wouldn't shy away from it for a minute. If I cared about resale value, I wouldn't buy tools to begin with. Tools are always worth more to you than the guy your selling to.

[ 02-22-2005, 05:05 AM: Message edited by: Shipwreck ]

[ron burton]

Ship Wreck is right on key with this one..

[daveferg]

Ron---since you seem to have come to this late in the game----first, there were a number of members here who spent long hours on the phone with Ridgid, over a period of 2-3 weeks, and getting a ww'ing mag. staff involved, to get this problem resolved. Yes, Ridgid now has a favorable fix, but the members here deserve a lot of credit.

Thing is, however, Emerson fixed this problem years ago and it was the new owners that allowed it to crop up again. I'd agree with Shipwreck, that this was an inspection problem, but it was previously solved and then crops up again. Let's just say it's one more negative against the current owners---though I certainly give them credit for a more rapid response (relatively) than they had to earlier issues.

[hewood]

Originally posted by daveferg:
Ron---since you seem to have come to this late in the game----first, there were a number of members here who spent long hours on the phone with Ridgid, over a period of 2-3 weeks, and getting a ww'ing mag. staff involved, to get this problem resolved. Yes, Ridgid now has a favorable fix, but the members here deserve a lot of credit.

Thing is, however, Emerson fixed this problem years ago and it was the new owners that allowed it to crop up again. I'd agree with Shipwreck, that this was an inspection problem, but it was previously solved and then crops up again. Let's just say it's one more negative against the current owners---though I certainly give them credit for a more rapid response (relatively) than they had to earlier issues. I'll add to Dave's comment that there were several reports of service centers being well aware of the arbor issue, which leads to plenty of speculation that Ridgid knew of the issue sooner than they let on. They responded well to public internet scrutiny and the threat of media involvement....I'd have been alot more impressed if they had responded to the service center's observations rather than waiting for extreme pressure. Nonetheless, kudos for the timely response once "appropriately stimulated". ;)

[imported_PLUMBER RICK]

MAINEMAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR SPARE TIME, BUT I JUST WASTED A HALF HOUR READING AND LOOKING UP WORDS YOU POSTED. CAN'T YOU JUST GET TO THE POINT WITHOUT ALL THE BS?
BY THE WAY WITH PLUMBERS WAGES YOU OWE ME $45.
PLEASE DON'T RESPOND UNLESS YOU HAVE ANOTHER $45. SINCE I KNOW IT'S NEVER TO THE POINT.
OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING? HOPE YOUR NOT A LAWYER, NO ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD YOUR PHONE TIME BILLING.
HOPE THIS PUTS AN END TO THIS POST.
RICK

[imported_maineman]

I'm not a full-timer on here. Don't plan to be.

Intention of thread was mostly to create a thread where people who weren't into this site so much could discuss maturely and freely talk about the both the great and not so great points about the 3650, and how it could be made better in the future.

Contrary to what these old-timer full-timers make it look to be I am not cryptologically sending out code to redirect everyone's computer to zero in on this thread.

So feel free to say what you want. And I stand on everything stated in other threads about the general tone of the site.

This site could be better if more people thought it was, but with the attitudes of some of the members here, you will always be treated like a newbie. They have good knowledge I'm sure. Just you gotta suck up to pry the best knowledge out of them. That's probably a more interesting aspect of this thread than the arbor to some people.

Anyway my experience with this group stuff about "take what we decide to give you, then muzzle it" never flew very far with me.

It's about the saw.

And I challenge any reader to count the characters in all the posts of all the guys ragging on me here, andsee if my total 6 hours of Ha yeahright "fame" comes anywhereclose. To the bandwidth anyone of them's used here.

Gee. That's an incomplete sentence wasn't it?

Guess I bitter git bak 2 lawur skool. Hey if nothing else we got comedy here.

[Shipwreck]

Maineman
I don't know ya, and would not ridicule you over some thing like a table saw. I don't agree with some of your points, but like adults, we a least get to share views with out name calling.

I myself could care less about a full stack of dado blades. If its to narrow..I'll make 2 passes to get the joint I need. But thats just my easy going nature I suppose.

[daveferg]

So Maineman---you first ridicule people responding to your posts and now ridicule the site??? Why are you here then? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You seem to have a strange concept of the way things work-----you get on a site---ask a question or post a comment---bemoan the responses you get (despite how correct they may be) and then go on with your blather. Gee, you must really be a popular person at work. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[bob bridgewater]

maineman, come spend a day on the job with me and the big fellows.We work with attitudes all the time but some folks just cant get it.--------I wish I had money to go to (lawur skool)!!!I take that back,I enjoy what I do.

Besafe out there folks.

Bob B.

[ 02-26-2005, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: bob bridgewater ]

[imported_maineman]

daveferg - Oh dave. Everyone finds the condescension intriguing okay? What'd ja do, run outta threads tonight?
bb - Ya! Well, best I can tell is some people are just slower catching onto stuff that way, ya know?
Adam - grab these and invite Grainy and Toes back to GUYTI thread Thursday @ 10.

[Don Rivers]

So, can anybody tell me one way or the other if this saw would be good for grandson going into cabinet making apprenticship? Or should we spend extra hundred bucks for a better saw? Can I take anybody here seriously? Couple o you sound almost too forgiving on your specs, no personal offense or nothin.

[UO_Woody]

Don,

Read a few posts, not impressed with the postings of non-informational readings, so I didn't read the whole thread.
I will say this (in response to your post), if you are considering the 3650 for your grandson going into cabinet making. NO. This saw would not be a wise choice for several reasons. As a cabinet maker myself, he will need something solid (which the leg set is weak) and an arbor that will handle cuts associated with needed joints (arbor problems). I would look into a Bridgewood (http://store.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=1109830441105410&id1=19&id2=24&--woSECTIONSdatarq=24&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=2907) as the blade tilt stops are on the cast iron trunion, not the sheet metal case.

Woody

[daveferg]

Don---I would agree with Woody to the extent that the saw, with it's problems is not worth the cost. Bridgewood is a good choice. There have also been positive comments about the Grizly and you can't go wrong with a Delta---if you shop around, you can get a good price.

[imported_maineman]

Dave -

Not reopening the original can of worms -

- but sounds you're admitting if the 3650 was to see some improvements over the next year or so - whether it's a longer arbor or just any advantages that the Bridgewood or Delta have going for them - that - as per the original topic of this thread, the sales (a.k.a. economics) for the 3650 might stand a better chance of improving?

That was the basic point y'know, to get a concensus going. Simply that Ridgid should hardly rest on it's laurels.

Sorry for thinking we'd never qualify you're position.

tks

[daveferg]

Look Maineman----I really don't think you'll ever listen, but I'll try again. You'll be wishing for this longer arbor until the cows come home, but it ain't gonna happen-----it would take a heavier duty bearing, possibly wider insert opening, etc. If you want a longer arbor you'll just have to get a saw in a higher price catagory.

Now, as to Ridgid having improvements/innovations to give them a marketing edge, I agree and have said this a number of times before. In the case of this saw, they'd do well to simply fix all the problems they created in the design, for the same or lower price. As to their other tools, again, I would agree. They come out with a complete new line of hand held power tools and price them right in the middle of the current pack of competitors. Why is someone supposed to buy their toools when there are no notable innovations over the competition?

[imported_maineman]

Au contraire, boss.

I ~have~ come to accept that it isn't going to happen.

Just wanted to point out to folks one last time that your presence and participation on this site is suspect.

It would appear it's you who's glommed onto a fixxxxxed unmoveable notion - that anyone who's got an opinion you're not partial to, can have no viable influence on anything on this site - without your diving in to squelch - not necessarily the idea(s) so much but rather the persons who might try to conduct any discussion outside of your meddling. It's the dominance thing, David.

It's just pretty comical, is all.

You could have just let my last post stand as a civil conclusion, and yet you just had to lay down one more blow of rudeness for what, to let everybody know who's

All hail, the Daveman. King of - well - a website.

So, don't anyone let (t)his squelching drive you away. Pin him down if you can and ignore him if you can't. Chance are your opinion has value to someone even if this guy only gives you a token credit or two at your first couple of posts.

I just couldn't stand the everyman's best guru act all that much. Go 'head Dave. Have the last word.

[SmartA$$]

Too many issues for one post.

Warranty

Arbor size

Big business profiteering

Big box store having exclusive supply

Attacks on peoples intellect

Etc., etc.

Come on people we all know we have someone that wants to be seen as being smart, a know-it-all. A guy that watches Daytona, works with tools, a family man and an intellectual superior. He overloaded a post with far too many issues for one post and has set up a post that he can rebut to for eternity.

I call this professional grade TROLLING.

Have a nice day.

[woodslayer]

“without your diving in to squelch - not necessarily the idea(s) so much but rather the persons who might try to conduct any discussion outside of your meddling. It's the dominance thing, David.”

“All hail, the Daveman. King of - well - a website.”

In all fairness, chalk one up to maineman, you had me laughing on that last post.

Woodslayer

[ironhat]

All of the foregoing concerns aside, I would like them to use metric or Imperial fasteners. What they are using is some sort of bastardization (I don't recall the actual name for this type of fastener). I also noted taht the fence grooves are odd sized and required that I file the hex-heads to slide in the slots. Lastly, the mitre gauge slots for mounting an extension piece of wood are slightly narrow and difficult to file. I managed to do so with a Dremel tool and milling tool. After overcoming these for the setups they aren't much concern and I am pretty satisfied with the saw. The lack of standardization and the lack of specific accessories from Ridgid are my only issues at this point.
Laer,
Chiz

[BadgerDave]

Originally posted by ironhat:
I also noted taht the fence grooves are odd sized and required that I file the hex-heads to slide in the slots.ironhat, I've never had a problem using ¼x20 hex head bolts in the slots of the fence. What type of bolts are you trying to use?