RIDGID MAX HC Battery Packs [Archive] - RIDGID Plumbing Forum, Woodworking Forum, Power Tool Forum

BrandMan

08-25-2003, 09:02 AM

Question of the day... JUST WHO IS MR.MAN?

Lets set the record straight... Batteries will go much longer than the 500 cycles of charge and use. These tools are the best in class - while others may claim 1,000 - the proof is in use.

Second - when you drain a battery, heat is the by product. A battery charges fully when it is cool. SO - it stands to reason that if a contractor is using the tools heavily then the batteries would be warm. Since time is money - they will want them cooled off and charged again as quickly as possible.

Third - the Rapid Max charger system does not negate the performance of the batteries in the short or long term.

Lastly - ITS RIDGID ORANGE and we are proud of it. Face it - it is a crowded category and we are trying to be noticable. Red is Firestorm and Milwaukee. Yellow is DeWalt. Gray is Porter. So, got to find an industrial color that we can call our own... Just happens to be industrial orange.

We have partnered with OWT (One World Technology's TTNDY.PK) because they have capacity and the ability to make some of the finest products. Look beyond the brands they are best known for.. you may be shocked at who they make for. Besides - we are engineering and R&D experts. They add the value of being the best at manufacturing to our specifications.

mr man

08-29-2003, 09:00 PM

Jon and Brandman, the reason I said 500+ (should have said 500 minimum?) is that they tested to that far at the AMP rating the cells were made at. Sure, the pack will keep on working on, probably to over 1000 charges, if you take care of the pack, and don't let it run down fully causing some of the cells to reverse polarity.

I seriously doubt Milw battery packs retain the exact same capacity at 1000 charges as they do when they are new. The nature of NiCad batterys can't be changed, they do break down over the many cycles they are charged at.

Being that Ridgid packs have forced air through the packs and past the individual cells removing the heat they should last longer than the competitors packs.

hammerman

09-12-2003, 03:40 PM

In Ridgids defense My Dewalt 18v batteries get hot when i drain them and i cant even get my charger to charge them til they cool down. So if they have a fan inside then it doesn't mean a lot of down time for me vs. Dewalt. And I would call the color more caramel on the cordless tools I saw, but way off of orange.

hi ho sliver

09-13-2003, 11:00 AM

I had a friend that dropped his battery for his milwaulkee drill and cracked the case, in fact a little piece broke off leaving a small hole, that battery holds a charge longer than all the rest, and I believe it is because the heat has a place to escape, doubt the companies want us to know that! keeps us buying more.....if we could find out where to drill a small hole in the batteries...I bet we would lengthen the life and runtime....imho

UO_Woody

09-13-2003, 10:31 PM

Several years ago, I had radio controlled dune buggies and monster trucks for my oldest son and I, expensive ones over $600. I remember reading that the NiCad batteries would last longer totally discharged before charging.

Now I have questions.

I took a low drill battery, and put it on the flash light, turned it on, and left it over night to totally drain. That battery will not charge up now. When you plug it into the charger, the light doesn't even come on, on the charger. Like the circuit is open. Has the battery reversed polarity as stated in an above post? Or has something else happened to the battery?

And to the hot battery not taking a charge issue, would it be feasable to say that placing the freshly drained, warm battery and putting it in the freezer for 5 minutes to cool it off, give it a stronger charge? Or is a method of rapid cooling a battery this way more damaging than good?

I know quite a few of you guys out there know alot about these cordless battery things, where I barely know enough to plug the thing in the right way if not for the little one way notches they have.

Mark IV

09-14-2003, 12:09 AM

You probably do have a case of cell reversal, and possibly the Black Wire effect. Unless you can open the battery pack and do some surgery, you may be looking at a new one. Some of them are solvent- or sonic-welded shut. If you can get inside, you can test and then replace the individual cells.

In a nutshell, completely discharging the battery means that the weakest cell can have its polarity reversed by the other cells.

NiCad batteries are as hotly debated in some circles as SawStops and BT3100s in certain others. There is a lot of BS about them (including the so-called "memory effect"), but this RC link is a good overview:
NiCad FAQ (http://www.flightlines.com/hovercrafts/batteries.htm)

Most of my experience with NiCad discharge was with professional two-way radio gear and this article seems to sum it up pretty well.

PS: It is good to see you back. You guys, with more WW experience in your little fingers than I will probably ever have, are what makes this forum such great reading.

UO_Woody

09-14-2003, 10:35 AM

Thank you for the info and the link. I've left the thing on the charger a couple of times for more than 24 hours. The charger light comes on indicating it's taking a charge sometime during the night. It does get a small amount of charge, but it doesn't get anywhere near a full charge, and usually is dead in just a few minutes again.

I tried one last time last weekend, and since I don't have time during the week to get into the shop, I found it still in the charger friday night. No light on the charger. I'm just glad I didn't burn the place down after reading some comments on charger/battery fires on the Ryobi site! Least it's a lower 9.6V and not the 18v.

Mark IV

09-14-2003, 11:25 AM

The local HD had a Dewally 18v battpack in the return shelf (yeah, I do nose around in there, sometimes they'll take an offer on perfectly good returns) that is totally scorched, blackened, and melted.

Don't know the story, coulda been anything from a direct 220VAC hookup or an internal dead short to a spilled beer, but there's a lot of energy packed into one of those little things.

Usually I figure for the cost of one of those things I will try to get it apart. You can buy replacement cells a lot cheaper.

lehigh99

09-17-2003, 09:10 AM

500 cycles? I heard DeWalt's get up to 1200! That means with normal usage, a Ridgid battery would only last maybe 1 to 2 years. Unless your batteries are 1/2 price, I would end up spending more on batteries over the life of the tool. So why sacrifice cycle life for a little faster charge?

BrandMan

09-17-2003, 09:42 AM

No one has from the company has stated 500 cycles. Nor has anyone seen any of the testing certification documentation on our packs Lehigh99.

Our packs are designed and engieered to run longer (in both run time and service life) than the best in the industry. They are also designed to charge faster making you more productive. We didn't copy or use what was available - we innovated.

Mike3206

09-17-2003, 02:50 PM

When in the DeWalt service center the other day I mentioned that my 12v packs were 7 years old. he said they should be due for replacement since you'll normally only get 3 to 5 years max out of a pack, less if used often enough. as posted above, heat is what kills batteries. It's that way in all batteries, even car batteries. Those who live in cold climates will see more broken down cars the first week of a bad cold streak then they will at the end of winter. I do not let my drill sit out in the heat, and in the winter, i bring all my packs inside and keep them in the basement till I need to use them.

As I posted in another forum, my wife works in the tool corral at HD. She says that they are allowed to drop Milwaukee and DeWalt tools, but under no circumstance are they to drop Ryobi, PC, Skil, or B&D. To me, the fact that some have said the Ridgid reps drop them and show how good they still work is proof that I need to take the Ridgid into considertion when purchasing another drill.

Also, the tool lady told me yesterday that the Ridgid will be the same price, if not cheaper than the DeWalt versions. Personally, I think whatever company sells a halfway decent product and has cheap replacement batteries will win the war. I mean $60+ for a new battery?? at least owes just came out with an 18V two pack for $99.

mr man

09-17-2003, 04:48 PM

I never said they only last 500 cycles, I basically said that in that range, you start going down in your amp rating. Its the same for all nicads, sure they all will last way beyond that. There are only three Nicad battery manufactors in the world. Ridgid packs use the same batterys as Dewalt does. However, Ridgid packs are cooled, Dewalts are not, which do you think will last longer?

For any company to state that their packs will last up to 1200 charges at the same amp rating as when they were new is simply BS, especially in the higher voltage packs that generate a lot of heat when being charged, as well as packs that have a 3.o amp rating that have a large resistance, creating even more heat when charged.

Originally posted by lehigh99:
500 cycles? I heard DeWalt's get up to 1200! That means with normal usage, a Ridgid battery would only last maybe 1 to 2 years. Unless your batteries are 1/2 price, I would end up spending more on batteries over the life of the tool. So why sacrifice cycle life for a little faster charge?

BillAMJ

09-18-2003, 06:59 AM

mr man, I've still got to ask, where are you getting all of this information? Inquiring minds want to know and you've ignored this question in the past.

BadgerDave

09-18-2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by BillAMJ:
mr man, I've still got to ask, where are you getting all of this information? Inquiring minds want to know and you've ignored this question in the past. I asked you the same basic question a few weeks back and you also choose to ignore my question at that time. The only conclusion I can rationalize is that you don't have any bona fide inside information and you are just making up everything you say. How hard can it be to answer such a simple question?

jon

09-18-2003, 10:06 PM

among the battery talk(fess up mr. man) i will tell anyone of these guys where i get all my info! so mr. man we all want to know, where are you getting all the info. milw. just came out with a multybay charger! the charger will be repairable too.(not a milw. buff, just a power tool buff).

jon

09-18-2003, 10:24 PM

hey woody most all of the manu. have a quick load chuck. bosch part #t2640,dw has rapid load sets ,#s dw2506,dw2518,dw2513,dw2523 these sets all have diferent types of drill bits,ect. milw.#S 48-03-005,3/8. 48-03-006 1/2.and so on.

jon

09-18-2003, 10:32 PM

well i was not paying attention!my last post was for captain bunzo, not woody SORRY about the goof up. and i am not even on the right page . its been a long day . i will pay more attention. :confused:

mr man

09-19-2003, 06:25 AM

Sorry guys! been putting in a lot of hours recently which why I have been slow to post.

I am no expert, but I only posted what I know to be true and from what I have heard from the horses mouth so to speak.

I work for TTi.

hammerman

09-24-2003, 06:55 PM

Gotta chime in. I met the ryobi/ridgid rep at the local HD,(avon ,Ohio) and saw him throw the drill up in the air and it hit the concrete. then i picked it up and tested and looked at it. I'm sure he did it more than once that day. He said that if purchased before 1-1-2004, the whole kit was lifetime warranty. He said if the batteries didn't hold a charge after 5 yrs. bring it back and they replace free. Thats what he said!!!!!! but you better keep your receipt.!!!!!!!

Bo_hamrick

10-07-2003, 11:28 PM

I have a question about the design of the battery...I notice the holes in the bottom of the drill and know that is for air to go through the battery...but I work on a job site... I have not been on one yet that did not have dirt on it...when i drop this ridgid tool and durt gets in the battery...will it still work??

doinitlarge

10-08-2003, 02:42 AM

Bo, I thought exactly the same thing. The first day I saw the drill at HD I didn't realize it was a new product. I decided to look at it quickly (I was there to look at the Dewalt's) . I noticed the vent holes right off. I stand my drill on end, many times in dirty locations or where loose debris like sawdust or insulation is around. I didn't know what the holes were for at the time and immediately decided, no I don't want that, it will just get plugged up. Well, If they make good on the warranty I'm game to try it.

jon

10-08-2003, 06:41 PM

The drop test is nothing new to the industry. many of the others have done this same thing before!Its going to be a good drill because there using all the technology thats been around. i looked at the partslist it looks a lot like the inside of a milw.put it this way fixed a snapon cordless drill it had a milw. trans and clutch and a bd switch and a milw. motor(whitch i think a nother company makes all the motors)

Penny

10-21-2003, 07:26 PM

I know that Rigid/Ryobi have relatively low amp hours compared to other manufacturers. Doesn't this mean less battery cells per battery?
What do amp hours have to do with the lifetime/runtime of a battery?

measure once...cut twice

10-23-2003, 10:23 AM

Penny, In response to your questions, the number of cells in a battery has nothing to do with the amp hour. The amount of cells in a battery depends on the total voltage that is desired. As far as amp hour rating, it is analogus to the size of your gas tank. Higher amp hour=longer run time. The amp hour on one of the new ridgid batteries is 2. THis is not all that bad considering the highest amp hour that you are going to see on any other nickel cadium battery is approximately 2.4. SO yes the ridgid batteries could have a longer run time if you bumped up the amp hour. NOw when you compare different brands of batteries that realtionship can tend to become a bit skewed because of the way different drills are made. I hope this helps.

CactusHead

10-23-2003, 06:30 PM

CactusHead

10-23-2003, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by BrandMan:
No one has from the company has stated 500 cycles. Nor has anyone seen any of the testing certification documentation on our packs Lehigh99.

Our packs are designed and engieered to run longer (in both run time and service life) than the best in the industry. They are also designed to charge faster making you more productive. We didn't copy or use what was available - we innovated. Actually MrMan stated 500 cycles.. and as we've been told, he's a TTI employee. Also - what did you guys do to create a longer lifespan of the batteries? Not run time but total life span. Batteries are spendy and I don't want to have to replace mine too often. I don't assume that you guys are making your own battery cells.

Also speaking of runtime, I read on this board somewhere that rigid has a 2.0 amp hour battery. But the competition has a 2.4 amp hour battery. I understand the heat effect, but couple that with amp hours and what do you get? Just curious to know. Thanks.

Cutbuff

10-24-2003, 02:30 AM

Batteries are not spendy. Not if you buy a Ridgid tool before December 31! Free batteries for the life of the tool or however long you live! smile.gif

David

RGad

10-30-2003, 01:21 PM

If Catbuff is right, then the point is irrelevant, but otherwise:

Anyone who tells you that a given battery pack will last X cycles sells snake oil for his day job.

First, you have to define your terms: what does "last" mean? It is usually defined for these purposes to mean something like will still accept a charge that rates out at 50% or more of its nominal capacity before hitting 1.0V cell voltage when exposed to a 20-hour rate load after having been charged by a "smart" C1 charger.

Second, however defined, the number of cycles that a NiCad battery can take before failing the test depends entirely on the load it is subjected to, the conditions under which it works, the quality and design of the charging system it is maintained on, the discipline of the person or organization charged with battery maintenance, and a zillion other factors. In fact, portable power tool battery packs are at the low end of the lifetime number of cycles scale because they are subjected to very high amp loads and generally charged with low end chargers.

In the public safety arena we take good care of batteries, which are subjected to much lower loads and generally maintained by a trained person with some very expensive equipment. We consider it extraordinary if we can get one year out of an assigned battery (i.e., 365 cycles). And that is on the PD side, where the portables stay on for most of the 8-hour tour. On the FD side, where the guys are in the habit of parking their portables in the charger after every run, the life cycle is far lower.

Pavel

11-14-2003, 07:20 PM

Some facts about batteries:

Number of cycles:

1. Nickel Cadmium chemistry - about 1500 cycles
2. Nickel MetalHydrate - about 500 cycles
3. Lithium-Ion - about 500 cycles

Doesn't matter who makes the battery pack - Ridgit, DeWalt, Makita or enybody else. This companies all use cells manufactured by third companies. And number of cycles depend on chemistry. All the manufacturers of the battery packs do, is put cells into plastic package. All the above manufacturers of power tools follow strict specifications (charging circuits and methods) set by cell manufacturers.
There is a VERY BIG chance that if you open battery pack made of Ridgit, DeWalt, Makita or whoever else you will find the same cells inside.

Information provided based on my own knowledge gathered from different sources and experience replacing cells in batery packs for laptops and other portables.

Here is a great source of information in plain language: http://www.buchmann.ca