At wits end.

[plumber]

This is going to sound a bit nuts but i am going to try something and want to be sure nothing gets hurt except the darned rodents i want to kill.

These darned moles are already wrecking my yard and its only February. After spending well over a thousand bucks last year to get rid of the darned things I am tired of insecticides, baits and traps

This is what i want to do.

I want to saturate the areas around the mole runs with water including filling the runs as much as possible and then run 110 volts out to the area. i am going to drive copper tube into the ground at set intervals then connect lines to each tube working in a methodic pattern to be sure all areas have been eradicated.

What would the sparkies here reccomend be a good distance to set my rods apart. I want enough current to either kill or drive the %^*($#&* moles out of the ground so I can wack em but i don't want to get myself at the same time. My thoughts were setting the distance at about 3 feet.

another plan includes fishing #12 bare wire through the main runs and setting current directly to it while having the ground attached to posts about 3 feet away from the run at several intervals. Will this work?

These danged moles have me feeling like Bill Murray.

[andcrs2]

Salt water is more conductive than fresh.

Something even more effective/safer than salt water is dynamite. *slowly shaking Head*

[PLUMBER RICK]

plumber, let me know what day you're going to do this, so i can watch the evening news.:eek:

rick.

[plumber]

salt water might damage the lawn but thanks for the thought.

Start watching Rick, I took tommorrow off for the dentist and the tax man so I'll be cranky enough to feel no pity for the darned varmits. The grounds still half froze so feeding the wire through the runs shouldn't be too hard.

[Pipestone Kid]

Anyone know the words to "Requeim for Plumber"? :-)

[CWSmith]

Plumber,

I'm not sure if this scheme will work the way you hope it will. First off, it's sounds a bit dangerous and you (and anyone else) should be well clear of the electrodes (your copper tubes) when you throw the switch... and you should be darned certain that the power is cut before you investigate this event up close.

I've never tried anything like this, but from my, partially educated, perspective, two things are going to happen... either you are going to get a "short" as the electricity leaps from one electrode (your copper tube) to the other, or you're going to get nothing. Depends a lot on how conductive the "wet dirt" is going to be. Having more than two electrodes won't make a lot of difference either I think, because the electricity will "short" between the first two black and white wire connected electrodes that are in closest proximity to each other... and anything outside of that path will probably be uneffected.

But the big challenge here (that I am guessing) is that you may be thinking DC current which theoretically will jump between one electrode and the other (positive and negative) in an attempt to complete a closed circuit. But with AC, a major piece of the circuit, is "ground"... which is what you are trying to run the power through... the wet dirt or ground that you create will probably do nothing more than assure your "ground" connection, which the load panel will see as a "short" and simply trip the breaker.

Now, I may be completely wrong in that assumption; but, from my point of view, in order to ill-effect the Mole, you need it to be part of the circuit, which means it needs to be the conductor between a hot line, and the ground. In which case, it will get "fried".... but so will anything else that happens upon such a "circuit, including it's creator, if he's NOT careful. So, the question than is, "how do you get the little critter to put one part of its bod on the live wire, and have the other part of it firmly grounded?"

I'm not a big fan of chemicals either, so I understand your frustration. Have you contacted your local farm or agricultural co-op to see if they have any suggestions?

I hope this helps or at least get you to reconsider,

CWS

[Bob D.]

How about if you build a mole zapper out of a piece of PVC pipe? line the bottom half of the inside with some metal foil duct tape and make a couple short flexible pieces that hang down from the top but do not come in contact with the bottom foil (so there is no arc/spark).

Not take this and put it in-line with one of his runs so it becomes part of the path and 'energize' it with 110V AC. When your little buddy comes waltzing through and completes the circuit you will light up his life for sure :)

[Gofor]

Grew up in Illinois (down near St Louis.) First, we used to take a couple of coat hangers and wrap the two wires from an electrical cord around it and shove them in the ground about eight feet apart after a rain. When we plugged it in, the earth worms would come rolling up out of the ground due to the the "tickle". Sure beat diggin' for 'em when we went fishing!. We always unplugged the cord before we picked up the worms, but once one of my sister's cats came meandering through while the juice was on. First time I ever saw a cat fly. He went up about three feet and over about 10 and hit the ground at a dead run. LMAO!. By the way, one of those old telephone magnetos that they used to use on the railroad phone boxes works just as good and is portable. I still have my grandpa's and still use it to get bait.
For moles, my ol' man used to get carbide pellets (used to be easy to get 'cause the miners used them in their lamps) and open up one end of the mole run and put a half cup of pellets in, pour a pan of hot water on them and close that hole. Then he would go to the farthest end of the run he could find, open a hole and throw lit matches at it until the acetylene (carbide + water gives off acetylene gas) got there and lit up. No more moles. It did usually kill the grass on top of the mole runs, tho.
We never tried the "Edison tickle" on the moles, but it probably would work. Might be enough to bring them out of the ground so you could deal with 'em face to face.
In summary, yes the electrodes will put current through the ground, and the resistance is enough that you won't blow a fuse, but it can be dangerous. Pulsating DC will work as well (its the current phasing that gives the irritation to the critters). Spacing is dependent on the conductivity of the soil. Wet clay conducts pretty good. Dry sand does not.
Might be hard to find carbide pellets, and if one of the little buggers has made a hole into your basement or under your shed, you may be getting a visit from the local fire department, so gassing 'em might not be wise.
This probably doesn't help much but Good luck on you "man vs nature" quest!.:D

[Bob D.]

Has anyone tried this stuff?

http://www.moleattack.com/index.html

I've had those pesky moles in the past and if this stuff works I would keep some on hand so I could hit them with it ASAP. IT sounds like another snakeoil sale which is why I am asking if anyone has tried it or knows if it works.


Here's some interesting reading from Purdue University which answers my question (doesn't work for the most part);
http://www.entm.purdue.edu/Entomology/ext/targets/ADM/ADMPDF/ADM-10.pdf

This 4 page PDF file gives suggestions for how to deal with moles, what works and what doesn't, etc.

[Polar Sparky 1224]

I have a better ideal, build a 15ft chain link fence around your whole yard and when you are done tell me your address and I'll send you my cat! guaranteed to rid your yard of small to large rodents, any neighbor dogs that poop in your yard, even if they are a rotwiller... You may want to keep your kids inside for the duration of her stay!

[Bob D.]

OK, curiosity has got me and I know you are waiting for someone to ask. What kind of 'cat' it is you have?

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Part Siamese and Persian female black passive aggressive personality had attacked some of my cousins before, and i have pulled her of a few of the neighbor dogs!

[plumber]

I might try the mole fryer with pvc pipe but these things usually avoid runs that have been really tampered with. and I think the poisons just make them high and they go get their friends to come back for more.


Gofor, my late grandfather used to retieve his fishing worms much the same way as you describe. same area of the country too. these things have runs all around my house as well as in the yard so fire bombs are out of the question.(Thanks for suggestion though, I had thought about gasoline and lighting the vapors but i like my house.)

There is a lot of clay here and i see what CWSmith is saying about DC vs AC current. . I happen to have an extra vehicle battery and can rig a throw switch. It is suppossed to rain here the next couple of days so the ground will be really saturated and should make for good conductivity.

So a DC circuit it is. I'll make the contact points 3 feet apart and make a throw switch with a solid fiberglass handle and operate it from dry concrete and will make sure there is plenty of lead between myself and the battery incase it would explode. Dang all this heavy wire is going to get expensive but one way or another these varmits have got to go.

[Polar Sparky 1224]

If you really do that stand on a THICK DRY RUBBER MAT!!!!

my cat is still available and will likely cause you less harm....

[Gofor]

Just remembered another thing the ol' man used on moles: castor bean seeds. He'd stick them in the runs hoping they'd eat them and it would poison them. Don't remember how well it worked, but he kept it up years after I left home. (He grew castor bean plants just for the seeds to use on the moles). I guess that could be taken two ways: either it worked so he kept doing it, or it didn't which is why he kept having mole problems!! The poison in the seeds is deadly so wear gloves (the moles probably won't touch anything with human scent on it anyway) and use the same precautions you would use with rat poison. Also, a note of caution: Because of the type of poison in the seeds, you may end up on the Homeland Security watch list if you go buy a large quantity.!!:eek:

[plumber]

Gofor,

A neighbor has actually planted several castor plants around his yeard, they are ugly things for sure. Another neighbor uses the beans and ground up leaves from castor plants, he still has more moles than I do. which is a lot.

I apparantly sold or gave away the battery i was going to use as its no longer in my possesion. So I split an extension cord and plugged it in to one of my outside outlets. I drove a few copper pipes into the ground along side the mole runs and connected the ends of the wire to the pipe via allegator clips before plugging the cord in. It always threw the breaker after about 15 seconds. Its very cold here right now so the ^&*^$#%^&*(&&%$%& moles might be too deep to have been killed but I will know when it warms up.

Sorry Rick but it didn't make CNN. Didn't even get tickled. But if this didn't get them I am going to make jumpers from my 220v central air next time and use more pipe and drive the pipe deeper. I think i will set evrything up and then put some smoke bombes into a few of the tunnels to get them moving around before throwing the power then I will have a better chance of them running through an energized area. Didn't think of that until too late in the day.

I think the very attractive young lady next to me thinks I have lost my flipping mind over this, of course she has a brother to take care of all of her yard problems. ( and he's losing to the varmits too )

[PLUMBER RICK]

plumber, how about steam? a little bit of heat might make the garden spring up early:)
maybe a co2 tank full of gas? either the co2 will freeze em or the lack of oxygen will kill them:confused:

do those sound machines work. the way they advertise them it should send a sound wave through the ground and drive them to your neighbors:eek:

rick.

ps. you're still too easy on ecs:(

[CWSmith]

Plumber,

I went to www.ask.com ("Ask Jeeves") and searched for the question "How to rid yard of moles?" and I got several hits. Too many to list hear, but you might want to give that a try and then check some of them out. They do mention "sonic" devices, but one that I found interesting was a "castor oil" product.

Regarding your attempt to electrocute the little pesks, I'm not surprised about the tripping of the circuit breaker. But, I think you would find the same thing happen if you just connected one pipe with the the black lead from your panel. The point being, that I don't think you are getting electric flow between your connections as much as you are just feeding a hot line to ground, which of course trips the breaker.

Good luck on your project,

CWS

[plumber]

Rick,

Those sonic vibrators work for about a week. After the rodents realize its not a predator they ignore it. Much like rubber snakes and fake owls discourage rabbits and squirrels for about a week then lose their effectiveness regardless how much they are moved.

I'll only post this subject here while I am trying to electrocute them. If I have to resort to something else i'll put it in another forum on the bottom. Maybe, hopefully, I will figure out a way to make this work and patent it.

regarding our flat rate buddy, I don't think we can have the same temperature of a conversation as you and I held last summer. The moderators are still a bit shy I think since they just released this new format and are hoping for more traffic. They closed a thread after that flat rate predator began preaching about a moral code. If I sat here and wrote my full and complete thoughts about his attitude my computer might be banned from the site. So i'll just let a little in at a time. I think most here probably share my opinion regarding the subject or at least most of it.

[plumber]

CWS,

Thanks for the link. Most of those sites have seen my screen before but I will take them all under advisement again in case I have overlooked a possible solution.

It seems a bit scary as I actually took a bit of pleasure at the thought of what I was trying to do Saturday. Cold as it was. Maybe when it warms I'll get lucky and find my plan worked.

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

Plumber, before you commence with Phase 2 of your ill-hatched plan, ponder this:

Why don't birds get electrocuted sitting on a wire? Because the voltage between their feet is very very small.

If your moles feel it at all, I'd be suprised. If you don't kill anybody hooking 240V up to a grounding electrode, I'd be amazed. Please quit what you're doing and try something a bit more conventional, and a bit less deadly if you goof something very small up.

A very experienced electrician would have a hard time predicting all the paths you're creating. As a plumber, there are probably some paths being created that you're unaware of, that could kill someone.

Please stop while you're ahead.

[HVAC HAWK]

i think the bird do not get zapped because they are not grounded :eek:

and its not because there feet are very very small;) :rolleyes:

[plumber]

Rocky Mountain Sparky,

Of course you are absolutely correct. While I was careful to be sure no one was around when I energized the lines one never knows when a curious child might come running around the corner unexpectedly. And even though I'm 99% positive the extermination can be done safely this way, to accidently harm a child or worse just to rid my self of nusiance rodents would be something I could not live with.

I will keep my electicity in its proper place and reconsider other options again. Thanks.

[EMT]

"Voltage between their feet is very very small"

Thanks for the laugh! I'm still laughing!

LMAO!

[Bob D.]

And all this time I thought it was because they wore ANSI Approved Shock Resistant footwear :)

[Gofor]

And here I thought it was because of all the down "insulation". :D

[Lorax]

And here I thought it was because of all the down "insulation". :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/bohunk24/Smiley.gif

[steelewoodworker]

... using Juicy Fruit chewing gum?

... and when you stop rolling in the floor and laughing, let me explain that YES, I am serious and NO, I have not tried it myself but have heard from several people who "swear" by it, so in the "for what it is worth" category, it might have some value to it?? I dont know if you chew it first or simply stick in in the path for them to find. Seems like someone said it "gums" up their digestive system??

OK all you in the peanut gallery, have at it!

Jerry

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

"Voltage between their feet is very very small"

Thanks for the laugh! I'm still laughing!

LMAO!
Okay, there, stud. How about this?

The bird's feet do not complete a circuit. That much, the plumber figured out. However, the bird still constitutes a parallel conductor.

Since the feet are parallel to an ungrounded conductor, when you consider the resistance of the conductor versus the resistance of the bird, the resistance of the conductor is significantly lower than the resistance of the bird. Therefore, more of the current that the wire is conducting will travel through the wire than the bird.

There is some current flowing through the bird. There is some voltage difference between it's feet. It's miniscule, since the conductor's resistance is .0000189 ohms, whereas the bird is over a 1000 ohms. There is a voltage. It's just really really small.

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. :)

[MD MASTER SPARKY]

This Is Rediculous

I Cant Fathom The Idea That A Knoledgeable Electrician
Or Anyone For That Matter Would Give Any Type Of Advice In Reguards To Something As Dangerous As This

This Is Just Plain Stupid

Unbelaveable

Does Anyone Here Know What They Are Talking About??

[TBL Shooter]

Well said Rocky!

[HVAC HAWK]

MD MASTER SPARKY

you better lighten up some or you will become a master #!*%$@?*#

[Polar Sparky 1224]

This Is Rediculous (Ridiculous)

I Cant Fathom The Idea That A Knoledgeable (knowledgeable) Electrician (that can't spell or use spell check)
Or Anyone For That Matter Would Give Any Type Of Advice In Reguards (regards) To Something As Dangerous As This

This Is Just Plain Stupid

Unbelaveable (unbelievable)

Does Anyone Here Know What They Are Talking About??


I have been reading through Article 210 and I wonder if you can tell me on what point we went wrong in the other discussion?

[coppertree]

I cant believe that this idea would even process inside the brain of a person with any knowledge of electricity.
I guess all the solder fumes are finally getting to you.

Copper Tree Elecric, Inc.
Licensed Electrical Contractor
Hudson Valley, NY

[MD MASTER SPARKY]

I cant believe that this idea would even process inside the brain of a person with any knowledge of electricity.
I guess all the solder fumes are finally getting to you.

Copper Tree Elecric, Inc.
Licensed Electrical Contractor
Hudson Valley, NY


FINALLY SOMEONE WITH SOME SENSE

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Yes i agree you are all a bunch of drooling flat nosed morons!

For crying out loud get a cat and solve you mole, gopher, rat, mice, small dog, neighbor kids, and anything else under 3 feet tall problem!!!!!!!

What worked in my parents yard (before we got the cats) was a garden hose in the end of every tunnel. After a few week or months of this and they moved on to dryer ground.:D :D

[plumber]

Master Sparky,

Yes, I know that I was talking about an idea to hopefully rid myself of rodents that have been destroying a lawn that I have spent a considerable amount of time and money on. For several years I would have put the looks of my lawn next to the fairways of some of the best golf courses in the country. Until an ungodly invasion of moles from hades occurred traffic literally slowed as people would look to admire my beautiful hillside.(Not an exaggeration)

Now its beginning to look like parts of a poorly maintained cow pasture.

I thought my idea was a good one at first and wodered why no one had done it before, at least to my knowledge. Whlie taking precautions not to hurt myself or other adults I did not consider the fact that a child may come running across a charged area unannounced and be hurt or worse. This project is no longer underway, if my first and FINAL experiment with electrical mole eradication did not work, this job will be left to proffessional exterminators.

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

I thought my idea was a good one at first and wodered why no one had done it before, at least to my knowledge.
Even if no one got hurt, ironically, the moles are probably safest. They're surrounded by alternate paths for the juice to flow. They might feel a little something, but chances are in their favor they'd escape unscathed. :D

Sorry to hear about the lawn, man. I hear you. She spent tons of money on sod, and then turned our four dogs loose on it. It's a nice dry tumbleweed patch now. :rolleyes: