A new arbor installation problem

[ironhat]

My issue is that the right bearing (facing the rear of the table) is giving me a fit. There's not enough room to get a good tap with a hammer (don't worry, I'm using a 2x4 block with a hole drilled in it to get an even tap and protect the arbor and bearing). I don't see a way to get a clamp on it either to squeeze it together either. I lightly oiled it before installing it and I also have the opposite side of the arbor blocked with wooden "T" brace against the cabinet) so that that bearing doesn't get pushed out. THere has to be someone else who has had this issue. HELP!!
TIA,
Chiz

[ironhat]

Now that I've had a chance to sleep on it I came up with a possible solution. I've never tried this on anything so I wouldn't mind an opinion from someone. What if I put a trouble-lite inside the cabinet and cover it for a few hours and I pop that bearing out and put it into the chest freezer. Do you think that I would get enough dimesional change to get that bearing to seat? In any event it's going to have to wait until the thermometer gets off of the 5*F mark this morning!
Later,
Chiz

[Bob D.]

It will probably help, but I don't know if you will have enough of a temperature differential for it to make installing the bearing any easier.

If you do try it then be careful of how much built-up sawdust in the cabinet with the light in close proximity and in a semi-closed space, you might end up getting the arbor way too hot !! :eek:

[Reef12]

Now that I've had a chance to sleep on it I came up with a possible solution. I've never tried this on anything so I wouldn't mind an opinion from someone. What if I put a trouble-lite inside the cabinet and cover it for a few hours and I pop that bearing out and put it into the chest freezer. Do you think that I would get enough dimesional change to get that bearing to seat? In any event it's going to have to wait until the thermometer gets off of the 5*F mark this morning!
Later,
Chiz


Yes that does sound like a plan.

Even better get an old cooking pot heat some oil in it to around 300 degrees and wear some welding gloves that puppy will slide right on.
This is how we do the big hubs at work.

Use a coat hanger to suspend it in the hot oil.

Works if you first measure the shaft size and inside the arbor to see the difference most likely a few thousands difference

good luck

[Bob D.]

Reef, these are sealed bearings I believe, can 'cooking' them in oil damage the seals and should the hot oil get past the seals wouldn't it tend to wash out the factory lube in the bearing?

[Reef12]

Reef, these are sealed bearings I believe, can 'cooking' them in oil damage the seals and should the hot oil get past the seals wouldn't it tend to wash out the factory lube in the bearing?

Yes you are Right Bob .

did not think about it that way.

we do hubs and larger bearnings with a press if possible.

Sorry to get your hopes up.

Well can you dissemble it and cook the arbor itself or freeze it ?
Then reassemble it.

Have not looked at the setup.

[ironhat]

The issue is the boss that the bearing sits in. If I heat the bearing it will 'swell' and the issue will be worse. I would have to heat the entire trunnion (is that right?) and I just might do that rather than risk gouging the casting. If I b-up the bearing I can get another but those castings don't come cheap, I'll betcha! Thanks for the input. Pleeeease keep thinking!!
Later,
Chiz

[Bob D.]

ironhat, thanks for keeping us on track. I think when I read Reef's post I thought he was talking about heating the bearing in the oil bath, and got everyone's thinking going down the wrong path, sorry.

As you originally said, heating the boss and freezing the bearing to shrink fit the pieces should make the fitup easier. And as I had first commented, It should help but I wonder if that temperature differential between your make-shift drop light heater and the freezer will be enough to give you that couple thousandths of clearance to slide the bearing in.

I'd try it, maybe even go with a quartz lamp or 150W spot light to get a little more heat into the arbor. It's still gonna take a couple hours to heat it up evenly I would think.

[chic]

Heating the arbr up should help to get it off. without seeing what you are talking about i cant add anything.but i do freeze my bearing befor installing them on a 300 threading machine. they slide right in.

[ironhat]

Bob, I haven't had the trunnion off as of yet but if you only need to loosen 4 bolts to adjust it wouldn't it be pretty easily removed and the whle process done more safely with regard to preserving the boss in the trunnion. I'm making this comment from the top of my thinnly seeded head so if I'm way off I won't mind being told so. I also thought of using a heat gun (good excue to buy one) to get the temp up without the dangers of using a propane torch. I had plannex on getting to this today but got home from church to find that ours and the neghbor's mailboxes had been sheared off leaving someones bumper shards all over the place. We had a bit of a neighborhood project to resurrect the boxes that weren't totaled - mine bought it.
Laterr,
Chiz

edited for additional info

[Bob D.]

I would stay away from an open flame heat source in this application. I was thinking of a heat gun but be careful how much heat you apply to one area over another, and heat guns can start fires too, so be mindful of the safety issues involved, remove as much sawdust as you can and have a fire extinguisher nearby.

We all have a fire extinguisher in the shop Right?
5A:40BC is a good rating for a general purpose shop.

[keith911]

ironhat, if i can do it i will send you a dvd i made when we did a friend of mines arbor, as far as boiling it in oil-- Definetly don't do it they are sealed bearing, also if you have access to a fax machine i can send you the installation guide, send your # to my e-mail address okay

Keith

[Reef12]

Okay Ironhat how have you made out?

Good I hope.

I think I should of seen that the bearing goes inside and not outside.
Internal is different.

Sorry Dude.

Freeze that puppy even Dry ice and heavy gloves as that stuff will bite you:eek:

[ironhat]

Well, here's where I am. I got a bright idea after supper. Since I couldn't get the bearing to budge I began to drive the arbor out which caused the bearing to find its way home. Unfortunately, when I drove the arbor back in it started to drive the bearing out again. So I cut two pieces of wood to support opposite side of the right bearing (as viewed from the back) and had them supported on the cabinet side with another long piece of wood the whole width of the cabinet - a caul, of sorts. I lost a little territory due to the elasticity of the wood and the steel cabinet. I took down this support and wedged a piece of wood between the left side of the arbor and the table top webbing. On the slightly protruding bearing on the right side I protected the bearing with a piece of hickory and used about 3,000 short taps (no room to make much of a swing) with the side of a ball peen hammer. I am just to the edge of the groove for the snap ring and I can't get it to move again. Sooooooo close but no c-gar! Put your heads together, guys. I'm about stumped.

I wrote to tech support and asked if I should just drop the entire trunnion and they posted back that I should speak directly to a technician but they encouraged a trip to the nearest service center (about 2 hours away).

Thanks for the help thus far!
Chiz

[Reef12]

Well, here's where I am. I got a bright idea after supper. Since I couldn't get the bearing to budge I began to drive the arbor out which caused the bearing to find its way home. Unfortunately, when I drove the arbor back in it started to drive the bearing out again. So I cut two pieces of wood to support opposite side of the right bearing (as viewed from the back) and had them supported on the cabinet side with another long piece of wood the whole width of the cabinet - a caul, of sorts. I lost a little territory due to the elasticity of the wood and the steel cabinet. I took down this support and wedged a piece of wood between the left side of the arbor and the table top webbing. On the slightly protruding bearing on the right side I protected the bearing with a piece of hickory and used about 3,000 short taps (no room to make much of a swing) with the side of a ball peen hammer. I am just to the edge of the groove for the snap ring and I can't get it to move again. Sooooooo close but no c-gar! Put your heads together, guys. I'm about stumped.

I wrote to tech support and asked if I should just drop the entire trunnion and they posted back that I should speak directly to a technician but they encouraged a trip to the nearest service center (about 2 hours away).

Thanks for the help thus far!
Chiz


So one question this saw had one of those with a messed up Arbor?

If a service center is close let them get some cursing in on it.:eek:

I looked at mine and Thank God they have this problem corrected.

But I would of taken it to work and pressed that puppy in their.

So hope all goes well.

This sealed bearning is it plastic or metal that forms the seal?

I have seen both.

We use metal on the press rollers.

water form,small form, distributor.

Can you use a piece of pipe that is outside Dia. to hit it in the rest of the way?

[ironhat]

So one question this saw had one of those with a messed up Arbor? Yup. No reason otherwise to antagonize my nervous system - LOL!

If a service center is close let them get some cursing in on it.:eek: :mad: Two hours away. Per my post, I'll be calling the technician today.

I looked at mine and Thank God they have this problem corrected.

But I would of taken it to work and pressed that puppy in their.

So hope all goes well.

This sealed bearning is it plastic or metal that forms the seal? Taiwanese plastic. With all the beating I'm doing on this one bearing I'm seriously considering replacing it.

I have seen both.

We use metal on the press rollers.

water form,small form, distributor.

Can you use a piece of pipe that is outside Dia. to hit it in the rest of the way? I went with a block of wood with a hole the size of the arbor drilled in it. Too soft and, most of all, there's just no room to swing a hammer or to get a C clamp on the thing.

[ironhat]

Well, I got hold of Theresa at tech support and guess what? I'm supposed to drill a hole in a piece of wood to protect the arbor and strike it with a hammer. Imagine that!? I asked if there was a way to get a clamp on it - 'No'. Is there anything special to watch for when pulling the trunnion casting down, such as with the tilt and elevation adjusting screws. 'No'. THat was the full extent of the conversation. I'll update when I have it completed.
Later,
Chiz:rolleyes:

[Reef12]

Well, I got hold of Theresa at tech support and guess what? I'm supposed to drill a hole in a piece of wood to protect the arbor and strike it with a hammer. Imagine that!? I asked if there was a way to get a clamp on it - 'No'. Is there anything special to watch for when pulling the trunnion casting down, such as with the tilt and elevation adjusting screws. 'No'. THat was the full extent of the conversation. I'll update when I have it completed.
Later,
Chiz:rolleyes:


Cool well what can we say maybe over thought it:rolleyes:

[ironhat]

I don't know about that, Reef. She sounded more unknowledgeable (is that a word?) than as if we had over-thought it. Each of my questions got a one-word answer... 'yes' or 'no'. I won't know if the tilt and elevation adjusters are a problem until I get the saw flipped onto its back and remove the legs. Unfortunately, I managed to get the flu last night so I won't be working on this for another day or two. I may sneak out to the shop and knock the arbor out and get the bearing numbers and call in an order.
Later,
Chiz

[Reef12]

I don't know about that, Reef. She sounded more unknowledgeable (is that a word?) than as if we had over-thought it. Each of my questions got a one-word answer... 'yes' or 'no'. I won't know if the tilt and elevation adjusters are a problem until I get the saw flipped onto its back and remove the legs. Unfortunately, I managed to get the flu last night so I won't be working on this for another day or two. I may sneak out to the shop and knock the arbor out and get the bearing numbers and call in an order.
Later,
Chiz

So is this a done deal?

Gosh have to get that saw eating some wood.

[ironhat]

See my post to your PM board. Saw is back up.