Is there a Moderator

[TOD]

That can check the IP adresses of all these new experts that are rolling in? I am not really a betting man but I feel there is just one person that is signing up under different names trying to flood and ruin this forum.

[RobertCDF]

What Gives You That Clue? PEOPLE THAT TYPE LIKE THIS Or Like This? It Would Not Suprise Me (boy that was hard on my pinky)

[Polar Sparky 1224]

I had thought 36 volt came back claiming to be a sparky.......the personality was a little off.

It would be great to be able to track their isp and find if the same person logs on under different identities to talk to themselves. You could have done it the easy way like Phil G:D :D :D

[JimDon]

Hi Guys,
Interesting that you should also think there is one guy showing up under different alias. I thought that two as I noticed the join up date on some of the "people" (experts???) in question all seemed to sign up at the same time!
I didn't say anything at first because I thought maybe I was being paranoid, but seeing others thoughts on it, I have to agree. Jim D.
BTW Saw similar thing happen late last year in the Milwaukee Tool forum.
Just my two cents worth of info I guess.

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

We never walked on the moon, Elvis ain't dead,
You ain't going crazy, it's all in your head...

The mole thread popped up on a different forum. Some people who've come here to heckle I recognize from that forum, the dude from MD isn't among them.

I have no intention of ruining your forum. And having a conversation with myself is just plain comical. :D

[bmartin]

I visit some other electrical forums and on one of the sites someone posted a link to the mole problem as a joke. Honestly that is how I got here but it worked out because the plumbing and woodworking info is pretty helpfull. I don't sweat the electricians most (not all) think nobody can perform electrical work unless they are pro's. What about when they were learning I'm sure that did plenty of electrical work that was "Best left for the pros". I am not an electrician but I am a landscape contractor and I build 1-2 houses a year and some of the questions that the electrical apprentices ask seem very simple. Also makes me happy that I do my own electrical on my houses. I say just ignore those with the holier than thou attitude, they will go away soon enough.

[HVAC HAWK]

AMEN bmartin ;)

[Minuteman]

For the record: I, myself never said that electrical work, or plumbing, or A/C, should be left to the pros. The state that I live says so. It's the law.

I did not learn the trade from being a DIY. I went through an extensive apprenticeship, studied, and past both a journeyman's test and a contractor's (or master's) test.

My only concern is that there is a liability issue when a DIY post is answered by anybody, pro or "semi" pro. I don't call or e-mail my doctor or lawyer and ask their opinion. I go see them. Yeah, I hate having to pay his price, but at least I know that he has sufficient information to give an informed opinion.

Sure, I dropped in here following the mole thing. Not to hide behind a different log-in name, like some, but the same one I use on the other site.

We have a local DIY radio call in show on AM radio here. The guy gives good advice. He may tell someone how to change a switch or a faucet washer or the like, but he will steer clear of giving advice that goes very deep.

Believe me, my motivation is not pride or arrogance. I would just hate for somebody to get hurt due to a home repair gone bad.

[bmartin]

Where I am from and I believe most states say you can perform electrical work in your own home. If you see bad advice and know it's bad advice say something about it. If you are so worried about the liability you have two choices. Give proper advice that when followed will give safe predictable results or don't say anything and that means no negative remarks. I would guess more DYI people get hurt using saws and tractors than by electrical work so I wouldn't lose any sleep about a little common sense electrical advice. Common sense means although most can handle changing plugs and installing lights you might recommend the pro for the service change. I've only been to this site for a few days but all the negative on the electrical forum is getting old. By the way this is n't the only DIY electrical forum on the internet.

[Bob D.]

"....Give proper advice that when followed will give safe predictable results or don't say anything and that means no negative remarks.... "

it may sound like I am flip-flopping here, but I don't think it is as cut and dried as you state above.

The person who may give proper advice, however correct it may be, has no control over how it is interpreted or used, so I don't think one could safely say that safe, predictable results would follow. As for not making negative comments, I don't agree with the opinion above either.

To me there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with an opinion, offering an alternate view, or stating that you outright disagree. It is the method used to put those views before the body (this forum) that I had trouble with as far as the topic of this thread (electrical DIY). If those who were so concerned had used a different approach to raise their safety and technical concerns, there might have been less friction and greater acceptance of their views. To me whether their opinion was right or wrong was not the issue, it was the gestapo-type authoritarian attitude which caused all the ruckus that I disagreed with.

[bmartin]

I don't have a problem with difference in opinions but there were a lot of comments about closing this forum, people are going to kill themselves and I believe there was even one calling people here morons. That is the type of negative remoarks that aren't helpfull. Also I know just because you give good advice dosn't mean the project will be successfull. But that is the best you can do. I believe if I give someone good sound advice what they do with it is they're business. I can't make them follow that anymore than I can make them wear a seatbelt. But I won't lose any sleep about giving good sound advise that
when followed properly by an intelligent individual will accomplish there job.

[Bob D.]

"I believe if I give someone good sound advice what they do with it is they're business. I can't make them follow that anymore than I can make them wear a seatbelt. But I won't lose any sleep about giving good sound advise that when followed properly by an intelligent individual will accomplish the job."

agreed.

[HVAC HAWK]

Where I am from and I believe most states say you can perform electrical work in your own home. .


so where are you from????:rolleyes:

[bmartin]

California.

[Minuteman]

bmartin

Well, there are also several states that will not allow home owner permits. Here, only licensed tradesmen can do the work, and only licensed contractors can contract. Travelers that come here and sign the books, that don't have a state licence, don't get sent out as journeymen.

You said something about not losing any sleep over DIY advice.

About 6 years ago I replaced a panel in an small manufacturing building. Later, that building burned down and was identified as an electrical fire. Turns out, the fire was in a circuit from a different panel. I spent many sleepless nights, before and after they found the fault of the fire. I would be devastated if someone was hurt in a electrical fire at a place where I had worked, regardless of fault.

FIW, I don't give DIY advice to my family and friends. The state my brother lives in allows home owner permits. He asked me about adding a hot tub circuit. I told him to hire an electrical contractor.

That's the way I see it.

[bmartin]

Well do you think it was a DIY that wired the other panel or someone purporting to be a professional? I also believe there is quite a bit more to commercial and industrial electrical work than that found in your average residence. I have seen some work by Licensed contractors that to me was unacceptable. So saying that hiring an electrician to solve all our electrical issues is the only way to be safe I believe is untrue. While they may be better equiped and have more experience I assure you while I don't have my electricians license I am more than capable of wiring all the basic circuits that you find in a residence. If I find something I don't understand I 'm sure I would consult an electrician. But to be honest with you basic residential wiring is not rocket science. By the way I wouldn't contract for this work because I don't have a license. But no problems doing it on my own properties or helping out family or friends.

[Minuteman]

So, what do you do for a living?

[bmartin]

Landscape contractor. Also build some spec houses with my father.

[swoosh81]

bmartin, show me a diagram of how to wire a 4 way light circuit. Then a diagram of a switched receptacle with the top of it hot all the time. Then my friend you can say you can wire a residential house!! No looking in any books now!! Of course you will!! All handymen do!!

[bmartin]

Thats easy. I don't use 4 ways in my house so I don't need to know how to wire them (I do use 3 ways). Also the only time I switch a receptacle with the top hot is for the dw/gd plug under a sink. I promise if I have to wire a 4 way switch I will call you. But your missing the point. It's not about what I do or don't know. It's about whether it's ever acceptable to give electrical advice on this forum to DIY'er. It's a fact of life that DIY is going to happen people can get advice here or at home depot. Hopefully the advice here will be better thanthe home depot.

[bmartin]

BTW swoosh I can build a complete house from start to finish including plan drawing up to the C.O (4 1/2 complete so far). Insulting me to make your point isn't very nice.

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

Bmartin, stop a second and look back.

"I can do it all! I'm great!" :rolleyes:

While they may be better equiped and have more experience I assure you while I don't have my electricians license I am more than capable of wiring all the basic circuits that you find in a residence.
This comment is just pure 100% pride. Unfounded pride.

I can do my particular job well about 75% of the time. It's what I do for a living. That's truth.

Do what you do, but don't think just because it looks right, that it's as right as it should be. The untrained eye can't see a lot. Don't be so full of yourself.

[WFO]

I have seen some work by Licensed contractors that to me was unacceptable. So saying that hiring an electrician to solve all our electrical issues is the only way to be safe I believe is untrue.

I think this thread has run WAY, WAY beyond any practical use. But I will say this.

The above statement is absolutely true.

I have been in the electrical game for 30 years and have seen licensed electricians that, either through incompetence or greed, have wired houses I wouldn't let my dog live in.

Case in point.....our hometown recently decided to require the local electricians to be licensed. They ended up having to grandfather all the oldtimers because none of them could pass the tests. They're all still working.

Case in point.....contractors that run aluminum in the building walls, then splice copper in just before the breaker box so the inspectors will pass it.

Yes I know that 99% of you are completely competent. The other 1% will be easy to pick out because they will be the ones that respond to this thread (probably with some @#%$#@& expletive about my Mother or something equally irrelevant.)

Fire away....I'll going back to the forums where they talk about electricity.

[PLUMBER RICK]

BTW swoosh I can build a complete house from start to finish including plan drawing up to the C.O (4 1/2 complete so far). Insulting me to make your point isn't very nice.
bmartin, i'm with you. i too feel that there are many so called professionals that are not anywhere close to being properly trained and licensed.

search the thread on underqualified "plumbers, contractors and inspectors"

this can be said for electricians too.

it's very easy to spot them at a plumbing supply house. i'm sure you sparkys can spot them at the electrical supply house too.

they are the ones that should be going to a hardware store and not wasting everyones time at the supply house.
if they need to ask the counter person for help, (code, name that part, etc.) they don't know their trade.
nothing like having to wait behind people that don't even know what to call a fitting. they would be better off shopping at a store with everything on display.



rick.

[bmartin]

Not full of my self. Swoosh just questioned my competance. GOod luck guys too much finger pointing here for me.

[Minuteman]

Wow, all I did was ask him what he does for a living. Huh?

Anyway, y'all be careful - in what ever you do.

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Thats easy. I don't use 4 ways in my house so I don't need to know how to wire them that's on way to avoid a question(I do use 3 ways). Also the only time I switch a receptacle with the top hot is for the dw/gd plug under a sink. Is it to hard to explain how you do it or would it bruise your pride if you may have done it wrong? I promise if I have to wire a 4 way switch I will call you. Sarcasm need i say more.But your missing the point. He's not the only one.... It's not about what I do or don't know. hu?????????It's about whether it's ever acceptable to give electrical advice on this forum to DIY'er. Translation,"It's about whether it's ever acceptable to give electrical advice on this forum to DIY'ers like myself. It's a fact of life that DIY is going to happen people can get advice here or at home depot. Hopefully the advice here will be better than the home depot. At home depot the most help you get if you are lucky is what Ilse the romex is on.


bmartin, I'm with you. i too feel that there are many so called professionals that are not anywhere close to being properly trained and licensed.
While that is true it some of use are still learning, like me i have 2.25 years left in school.
search the thread on underqualified "plumbers, contractors and inspectors"

this can be said for electricians too.

it's very easy to spot them at a plumbing supply house. I'm sure you sparkys can spot them at the electrical supply house too.
I have seen them take 20 min just to find the right outlet for a 15 amp circuit. All you have to do is read the outside of the packaging!!!
they are the ones that should be going to a hardware store and not wasting everyones time at the supply house.
if they need to ask the counter person for help, (code, name that part, etc.) they don't know their trade.
nothing like having to wait behind people that don't even know what to call a fitting. they would be better off shopping at a store with everything on display.
Even at the hardware stores they're the ones that don't understand you can't have an outlet above your bathtub. We did a home in Payson Utah where the guy just added an outlet in his bathroom for a TV over his tub. With brains like that how did he get the money to afford that house.


Why not just say what you do know and quite beating around the bush. I can draw a diagram for 4 way switching and for a split cirtuit/ switched outlet. Both are not that hard.

[PLUMBER RICK]

polar,

i know how to look up the proper wiring for a 4 way switch too. ( 3 or more switches that controll the same light) and also a split outlet too. although in l.a. they don't like it. rather use 2 separate outlets with a common nueatral. too easy to get 240 volts if the person replacing the outlet doesn't know about breaking off the tab.

i couldn't draw it on the computer and post it. shoot i can't even figure out how to download a spell check program.
when you figure the spell check out, please foward it to me too:D

just like in plumbing, we have tons of formulas for offsets. as long as i know how to use them and apply them, then no problem. sort of like when calculators first came out. (i know i sound like an old timer). we still learned how to do it long hand. now with calculators, the youngsters don't learn long hand.

once again polar, i tend to agree with bmartin. if he needs to research the proper wiring, he can look it up and make sense out of it. same goes with our code book. hundreds of pages. as long as we are familiar with the code and know right from wrong, we can always look up the tables. just too much info for all the formulas. just like you can't remember all the ampacities of copper and alum. from 14 - 750 mcm. you know how to look it up and apply it properly.

give bmartin a little slack. he is only voicing his opinion. and from the sound of it, he is more than a diy'er.

bmartin, if the sparkys won't help you, the plumbers will. just ask.

let's just get over the fact that there are always going to be people that will do things themselves or at least attempt it first. if they are coming to these forums, they are looking for advise, not a lecture:eek:

i've always offered free advise. even with my own clients. i don't lecture them. if it's over their head, i'll advise them.

rick.

time to move onto a more productive topic.

[HVAC HAWK]

josh is on vac sitting on a Sunny beach drinking a margarita :D ;)

[swoosh81]

No bmartin you brought your competence(notice my correct spelling) into this discussion. In 90% of the residential houses we wire there are plenty of 4 ways and switched receptacles(from $100,000 to $750,000 dollar houses). When your gonna act like your the man I'm gonna call you out and show you that your not!! Stick to your rake and shovel!!:D

[plumbdog10]

Hi, I'm not an electrician, I'm just peeking in fron upsatairs at the plumbing forums. Our forums have been around for a couple of years, but I can tell you that we had to kick each others asses around before everyone settled down, and knew who was who. I, and alot of the plumbers up there thought that an electrician's forum was a pretty good idea, so welcome.

So my advice is to stay with it. If someone is a fraud, point it out. The cream will come to the top. But I'm sure you will learn based on the view points of fellow workers in your trade across the country. We plumbers have all come to value the forum, I'm sure you will too.

I'm butting out now.

the dog

[BHD]

Why are you harping on the 4 way switch,

A 3-way switch is a SPDT switch.
A 4-way switch is a cross-connected DPDT switch.


It goes between two three way to give an extra location to turn on and off a light from more than two locations, and you can use as many as you want (In theory) for mulipital locations for a light switches,

The directions are on the side of most boxes they come in, as well as most "Home" how to books,

MY guess is if he can wire up a three way correctly and pass Inpections he will do fine if he has a need to wire in a 4 way,

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switchoutlet/4way/index.htm

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/switches/4WayStills.html

[HVAC HAWK]

BHD

the self-help is a nice website thanks


charlie

[swoosh81]

BHD let's see a diagram then. I think your all a bunch of handymen. All the advice that goes on your right you can get it from a how to handyman book. All questions I've ever asked people don't know the answer to them so till ya'll do get off my ***!!

[PLUMBER RICK]

I'm butting out now. :eek::D

the dog

hope that wasn't a plumber crack joke:o:p

rick.

[BHD]

swoosh81 Please click on the url below,

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/boyce_smith/4-way.htm

and it will open up a page so you can see how to wire the 4 way switches in your home, or homes you are wiring,

first of all I do not know how to post a picture on this web site so drawing the digram and posting it is out of the question?

[swoosh81]

exactly all you handymen need websites like that!!

[AZPlumber]

exactly all you handymen need websites like that!!

Swoosh, go take a hike. If you're not going to have respect for others here and do nothing but insult people to inflate your own ego and questionable skills then there are a thousand other sites you may be happier on, OK? There, that's a good little sparky.

[swoosh81]

Respect is a 2 way street my plumber friend!!

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

Well, I tell ya what folks, that settles it for me. I am now on the Respecting Swoosh Superhighway. How could I have been so blind?

[AZPlumber]

Respect is a 2 way street my plumber friend!!

Indeed, it is. And from what I have seen so far on this thread, everybody has been more or less civil except you.

I honestly can't stand guys who comes on sites like these just to smugly tell people they don't know what they're doing and call a "pro". What point is there in that? Are sites like these somehow threatening your living? I don't think so. They exist to help out average homeowners and people without alot of cash to fix things themselves.....you know, those good old self-sufficient ideals this country was built on and by. If some Johnny homeowner wants to come on here and ask about how to wire up a 3 phase circuit, and he fries himself, that's on him. Nobody forced him to try and tackle a job he's not prepared for. He comes on a site like this to ask for advice from people who can't even see the job and does'nt even know.....logic would tell a trained monkey to take that advice into consideration, but not to hold anything up anyone says in these forums like the Holy Grail.....including anything you have to say. However, it is almost totalitarian and repressive to suggest that people cannot congregate on a site such as this being amateurs, to discuss construction fields. It's a free country, last time I checked, and I believe we can be here to discuss anything we wish to. Unless they have made you the new FCC chairman.

If you have something useful or constructive or helpful to say or add, by all means help out! That's what everyone's here for.....to give and recieve help. If you just want to proselytize about how smart you are and how dumb and un-qualified others are, there are other websites you would find more your style. Honestly, I get upset at a few un-named plumbers in this site also who have that same attitude from time to time, telling people to call a pro and blah blah. It is fine to advise someone they may be over their head, but far be it from me to ever desire to curtail the free flow of information and opinion from anyone who seeks it for themselves. What they do with it afterwards is their responsibility. Welcome to America, my electrician friend.

[ToUtahNow]

Some feel they need to protect what they know for the sake of their trade or their job. I feel it is my responsibillity to share what I have learned in the last 35-years. Too many young guys are learning the wrong way to do it. I also spend a couple hours each year in refresher classes amnd new codes so I can keep up with changes.

One thing I need to be more careful with is making sure whomever I am explaining things to is capable of safely handling the task.

Mark

[Polar Sparky 1224]

No wonder sparkys get such a bad rep....... If respect is a two way street wouldn't you want to give respect to get it or should the number of capital letters in a post earn it for you? Does respect come when you are not kind to others on line? If respect is a 2 way street maybe you should pay attention to your roadsigns and get off the one way street you have been cruising on.:D

O ya to save you the trouble,
What the heck are you talking about? Get off your high horse and you'll get more respect as you show it to others.

DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO YOU!

[chic]

AZ,Utah,and polar my hat is off to you guys.If swoosh81 and a few others on here donot understand what you three just wrote,then they should just stay off this site and we will all be happier!!!

[swoosh81]

Here I will spell it out for all you handymen, GET A LIFE!!! LEARN HOW TO DO ONE TRADE AND NOT BE A JACK OF ALL MASTER OF NONE!!!!!

[oldslowchevy]

hey swoosh what maintenance people?i had and still do some of that type of work time to time.if a job is more than i can handle then yes i will in form the costomer that and tell them that they can get the proper tech for that job or if they like i can get the proper tech i do the job.i do know where my limits are i won't wire a panel box but i will repace swithes recptcles,i also wont modify a drian system(as in adding a sink or tub)but i will soder copper install supply lines and so on but i made a good living owning a framing company for 12 years

[swoosh81]

So Your Not The Type Of Person That Know's Enough To Be Dangerous!! Good For You Not To Do It Then!!

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Here I will spell it out for all you handymen, GET A LIFE!!! LEARN HOW TO DO ONE TRADE AND NOT BE A JACK OF ALL MASTER OF NONE!!!!!

The voice of experience??!!!:D

We could all just post one liner generalizations and insults.....:D

[swoosh81]

Post removed for Profanity.

[chic]

SWOOshy,what is a man? a man is a problem solver!! we all like to try to solve are own problems first then ask for professional help. by the way i feel that you swoosh need some help!! your crying out in your posts for help .SO GO GET HELP FOR YOUR PROBLEMS.OR QUIT BEING A ********.

[Polar Sparky 1224]

yeah **** ups by people like u!!

Another one liner for you....
Did you mom teach you to say that?
Or did you wake up on the side of the bed with the wall on it?

This whole topic is about moderators and how competent they are. And then others take it into how competent are the members of the forum.

Here is one way to recognize a professional, they behavior. If a person treats you like crap then why do you hire them. You don't, these are the guys that have never learned how to properly interact with others and never will. calling everyone on this forum "handymen" doesn't help your relations with others that would be willing to answer your questions and be friendly to wards you.

You may be carrying a bigger verbal hammer around ,but if enough fingers get smashed it will only get worse.

Josh is really good at what he does, any topic that has gotten out of hand is shut down. Do you really want to shut this forum down one thread at a time?

[swoosh81]

Oooooooooooooooook There Chic Your Not Even A Tradesman!!

[swoosh81]

Ok Polar Sparky I understand where your coming from but here's my point, no decent electrcian in there own right would be posting the **** I've seen on here. i.e. the reason I call you all handymen, so what if you know a couple code items you can get that from the internet. Secondly I've never referred to myself in 16 years of doing electrical as a sparky nor have any of my co-workers, that is another reason why I call you all amatures. Laymens terms show knowledge of something without coming off sounding like a complete and utter retard(not putting down retards by saying that)!! Oh yeah this is WAY OFF TOPIC!!

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Oooooooooooooooook There Chic Your Not Even A Tradesman!!

New public disclaimer....
"This forum is now for Tradesman only even if you repair power tools for a living you are not qualified to do jack. And with this in mind we kindly ask you to leave and take you inferiority with you. we deeply regret not being clear on this from the beginning and hope you can find some place where you fit in."

Mein Fuhrer Swoosh81 is nicht derechtigt zu bleiben auf diese forum!!!

How about a one liner in German?

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Mein Fuhrer Swoosh81 is nicht derechtigt zu bleiben auf diese forum!!!

My leader Swooch81 is not able to remain on this forum.


for those who can't read my improper German:D

[ToUtahNow]

I believe old swoosh81 is showing his insecurity. I don't care what he thinks he knows he would be the first one on my crew to get fired. If you don't have the mental capacity to deal with people you don't have it to be on a crew or a construction site. The other telling sign is the fact that he feels he has to lower himself to use foul language. If he is not smart enough to express himself any better than that I doubt he knows that much about electrical.

Mark

[Polar Sparky 1224]

OK Polar Sparky I understand where your coming from but here's my point, no decent electrician in there own right would be posting the **** I've seen on here. i.e. the reason I call you all handymen, so what if you know a couple code items you can get that from the INTERNET. Secondly I've never referred to myself in 16 years of doing electrical as a sparky nor have any of my co-workers, that is another reason why I call you all amatures. Laymens terms show knowledge of something without coming off sounding like a complete and utter retard(not putting down retards by saying that)!! Oh yeah this is WAY OFF TOPIC!!

So what kind of electrical knowledge can't you get on line? Actually, experience is not gained on line, but thats the beauty of it you don't know if I'm a girl of a guy or if i really am 23 but some things you can't get off the Internet that easy. In commercial i just got used to being called a sparky, just like calling the HVAC guys Tinner's and the plumbers, Pipe fitters. Does a name make a difference? If you have only done resedetetial then you may not have been called a "sparky" at all. But if you had, hope you had the descency to not be insulted by a nickname.

I read the message and i am going back to doing residential again. Compare to bending conduit and having 300 things you need to remember to do a day residential is a little easier, but you need to move at a faster pace to make money.
I usually don't get much crap when someone is face to face with me but insulting someones trade/occupation is a big mistake.:mad:

[HVAC HAWK]

you can express what you want with out the foul words , lets keep it clean OK:D

[oldslowchevy]

dear swoosh please by all means stay here and give every and everyone of us here all the crap you can give us!!we love it!i for one i enjoy being told that i dont know my trade and i really think everyone else here does as well .dont you guys?if i knew i was so dumb to build anything or plumb or even wire something i could have save so much money on all the tools and books i have bought over the years and then i could have gotten that new truck i wanted years ago even though at that point i would have had no use for it what so ever.gee wiz man where were you years ago to tell us all that we are just a bunch of dumb asses!and to do something else with our lives?

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

...here's my point, no decent electrcian in there own right would be posting the sh*t I've seen on here.
You're right. I've never seen such poor manners from the grimiest housemonkey I've ever known.

i.e. the reason I call you all handymen, so what if you know a couple code items you can get that from the internet.
And handymen are always bent on passing themselves off as real electricians by posting code references, right?

Secondly I've never referred to myself in 16 years of doing electrical as a sparky nor have any of my co-workers, that is another reason why I call you all amatures.
I agree with Polar's comment above. I've never seen a tinner start cussing and fuming at being called a tinner.

Laymens terms show knowledge of something without coming off sounding like a complete and utter retard(not putting down retards by saying that)!!
Restrain...don't....give...in...he'll...win....!

[Polar Sparky 1224]

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8111

read post #7

And in this thread post #49:D

[oldslowchevy]

glad to have seen that and thanks for bringing it to our atention and thank you josh for starting the end of this guy

[HVAC HAWK]

thanks josh for keeping this site clean :D

[JimDon]

Thank you Josh for removing the posts with profanity. I think people can have all kinds of disagreements and discussion on a topic (or an ability) without reverting to the use of profanities. It's too bad that a few people have had to turn this particular area of the forum into a virtual circus with their constant attacks on others. It's really unnecessary. What they don't realize is that this forum is kind of like watching your TV at home. If you don't like what people say or do here don't visit the site and stir up a bunch of trouble by constantly attacking others. These forums are meant to help and educate, not to tear down. Jim D.

[swoosh81]

the end of this guy i think u mean me!!

[HVAC HAWK]

i think so it is your replies that got shut down :D

[swoosh81]

replays???

[HVAC HAWK]

sorry i ment posts like

BHD All questions I've ever asked people don't know the answer to them so till ya'll do get off my ***!!


and #49

[ToUtahNow]

Post removed for Profanity.

I Believe this might be the reply he was referring to.

Mark

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

replays???
Well, Dr. Dictionary, I believe he meant "replies."

Speaking of replies, we're still waiting for one from you about that 16-year master license you keep battering people over the head with...

[swoosh81]

Sorry I didn't know I was dealing with uneducated people as well!! Life must be lonely being stupid!!

[Ken R]

You are calling others on these forums uneducated and stupid, yet you are the one who came here insulting people and using profanity to the point that your posts had to be deleted. Resorting to profanity in a discussion or disagreement is the mark of an individual who is not capable of articulating his opinions and beliefs well enough to convince another of the validity of his point of view so he uses profanity to attempt to insult and intimidate any one who does not agree with him. You have added nothing positive to the forums and succeeded only in causing problems. You seem to believe that you are superior in some way to the others here, which is completely untrue. Your lack of social graces and inability to use non profane words and sentences marks you by your own hand as uneducated, ignorant, and arrogant.

If you have nothing positive to add to the discussions here and if the subjects discussed and the opinions and advice given are so distressing to you please feel free to exercise one of the very highly held and cherished rights of both the US and Canada, that is the right to leave.


I have no doubt that you will no respond with some amount of profanity or another attempt at verbal abuse, go ahead it certainly won't bother me and if it is the only way that you can convince yourself of your self-worth then so be it I feel sorry for you that the only way you can make yourself feel good is by attempting to belittle others.

Ken

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

So, let me get this straight...

You are still coming by here, checking in on things, but are unable to produce the evidence of a license that would actually give you some small credibility for all the name-calling you've been dispensing?

You're remarkable!

If I had of embarrassed myself so badly with such juvenile, abusive behavior, I probably would have quietly left here by now and never returned. Yet you remain. Fascinating!

[swoosh81]

Why in the world would I give information like that out to a person like you?? Secondly Ken R this is not a conversation between you and I so see yourself out of it!!

[swoosh81]

oh yeah wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[HVAC HAWK]

oh yeah wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
now we know why he can not answer anyone he is to busy answer him self
:eek: :D

[Lorax]

Save yourself the aggravation.
Do what I did and this is all you will see.

swoosh81 This user is on your Ignore List.

:p

[HVAC HAWK]

THANKS LORAX

did not know wat that was.
i like it :D

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

Why in the world would I give information like that out to a person like you??
Uh, you made it sound like a foregone conclusion before.
Listen you bleep bleepin' bleep, show me your bleepin' license and I'll sure as bleep show you mine!
Give or take a bleep or two.

There was such passion to your statement. I was certain a gentleman of your charisma wouldn't commit an act of deceit, so surely, you're planning on making good on your half of our arrangement. I mean, after all, so far an apprentice and a guy who'd likely still be an apprentice in your state have stepped forward with our cards. I'll be eligible for my journeyman in June. Surely, this doesn't measure up to your 16-year master.

So, where's yours?

[Polar Sparky 1224]

This message is hidden because swoosh81 is on your ignore list.

Isn't that great, a big thank you to people like josh that work at keeping this place more enjoyable.

here's another famous one liner
"Why didn't I do this sooner!"

[Polar Sparky 1224]

polar,

i know how to look up the proper wiring for a 4 way switch too. ( 3 or more switches that control the same light)

I got a new job and one of the tests was to do a 3Way/4way to control two lights.
He had the whole setup on a board and had 7 wires in each box the power came the first switch box and then to the second with the two lights between the four way and the last 3way. I was fun! he was looking over my shoulder the whole time but he was more concerned with quality instead of speed. my first job they only cared about how fast i could go. but at the same time when you say you are going to give someone a raise and you race them making up a 2 gange switch box? Well the journeyman beat me by 30 seconds so i didn't get the raise i guess.

But back to what we should be talking about is moderators. So josh isn't qualified since he only understands the tip of the electrical iceberg. But i don't know jack about maintaining a website. But even a child can figure out who is fake on this sight just by their speech (or lake thereof).

[Ken R]

he is on the list and things are quieter already.

Ken

[papadan]

I am not an electrician, I am not a plumber, I am not a carpenter, I am not a contractor, I am not a handyman. On this forum as well as quite a few others I give advice on Electrical, plumbing, carpentry, and general handyman type rerepairs from concrete to roofing. For a living, I build, rebuild, install, and repair overhead cranes and hoists. My knowledge of all types of repair or replacemant work concerning homes and buildings comes from learning and doing. I can completely replumb a house, I can completely rewire a house. I can even wire 3 way and 4 way switches and get them right the first time. If someone asks me how to wire them, I look over the net and find a diagram to post or email them. It is not something that I do enough to be able to just tell them how. If I took the time I could draw them a diagram but with the internet it is not nesc. to do it that way. If some one asks a question about anything, I will post a reply with a reliable answer f I know the answer. otherwise I leave it alone. I have seen many times where someone gives the wrong answer or dangerous advice and I have corrected them before any harm could be done. Just like this forum here, I could care less who is a pro plumber or elect., I only care about the person asking the question getting the right information. If someone post wrong info I will correct them, but without cussing them or calling them names. That sort of stuff serves nobody. There is not one person anywhere on these forums that I would ask to prove they are a proffesional plumber, electrician or anything else. If they give honest, sound advice then they are a pro as far as I am concerned. Over the years I have met a large number of proffesionals that did not know what they were talking about or they did very shoddy work. I don't call them names, I just don't call them, nor would I give them any kind of references. As far as pros or newbies giving advice on these boards, all we can do is give the most accurate information possible. If the person using the info screws it up that is thier problem. They can't come back here and raise heII about the advice recieved because it is in print and can be proven correct. What I am saying here is, that we should all do what we can to help each other with what ever problems we have. Don't slander, blame,accuse, curse anyone for trying, just politely correct them if they make a mistake. OUCH, just fell off my soapbox.

[Pipestone Kid]

Papadan: I love your oration, but I have a question-Who built that soapbox? Was he/she a professional? Did it have non-skid on the deck? Was there proper railings around it? did you get hurt? Who are you going to name in your lawsuit? :-)http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[oldslowchevy]

papadan great post but gee wiz will this thread please die now?

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

For a living, I build, rebuild, install, and repair overhead cranes and hoists.
Oh, yeah? Prove it! What's that...er...big thing with the ball and hook with the...er...

Aw, forget it. :D

Well written. :)

[papadan]

Oh, yeah? Prove it! What's that...er...big thing with the ball and hook with the...er...

Aw, forget it. :D

Well written. :) I can prove I know more than you. Mobile or tower cranes have the balls. I work on indoor overhead cranes. We don gots no balls. LMAO

[woodslayer]

I don't call them names, I just don't call them,

Very sound advice, Papadan.

Woodslayer

[HVAC HAWK]

i think we should not even respond to those how do not respect the way this forum is running with out name calling and criticism:D

cant we all just get along

[Polar Sparky 1224]

The water seems much cooler now, maybe i need to liven things up a bit.

Who's avatar is scarier Mine or Josh's?!!!:D

[swoosh81]

I am not an electrician, I am not a plumber, I am not a carpenter, I am not a contractor, I am not a handyman. On this forum as well as quite a few others I give advice on Electrical, plumbing, carpentry, and general handyman type rerepairs from concrete to roofing. For a living, I build, rebuild, install, and repair overhead cranes and hoists. My knowledge of all types of repair or replacemant work concerning homes and buildings comes from learning and doing. I can completely replumb a house, I can completely rewire a house. I can even wire 3 way and 4 way switches and get them right the first time. If someone asks me how to wire them, I look over the net and find a diagram to post or email them. It is not something that I do enough to be able to just tell them how. If I took the time I could draw them a diagram but with the internet it is not nesc. to do it that way. If some one asks a question about anything, I will post a reply with a reliable answer f I know the answer. otherwise I leave it alone. I have seen many times where someone gives the wrong answer or dangerous advice and I have corrected them before any harm could be done. Just like this forum here, I could care less who is a pro plumber or elect., I only care about the person asking the question getting the right information. If someone post wrong info I will correct them, but without cussing them or calling them names. That sort of stuff serves nobody. There is not one person anywhere on these forums that I would ask to prove they are a proffesional plumber, electrician or anything else. If they give honest, sound advice then they are a pro as far as I am concerned. Over the years I have met a large number of proffesionals that did not know what they were talking about or they did very shoddy work. I don't call them names, I just don't call them, nor would I give them any kind of references. As far as pros or newbies giving advice on these boards, all we can do is give the most accurate information possible. If the person using the info screws it up that is thier problem. They can't come back here and raise heII about the advice recieved because it is in print and can be proven correct. What I am saying here is, that we should all do what we can to help each other with what ever problems we have. Don't slander, blame,accuse, curse anyone for trying, just politely correct them if they make a mistake. OUCH, just fell off my soapbox.




Well said papadan