question about 240V outlet

[maryjo]

Hi: I want to install a 220 volt outlet in my garage for my TS3650. In my house the 220 for the clothes dryer is located on the other side of the wall next to the garage. My question is will I have to install a new circuit from the
service panel to the garage or can I connect it to the circuit which already exists for my clothes dryer and run that into the garage?

I apologize for the terminology here and I hope this question makes sense. A new circuit will be a real problem as there doesn't appear to be any room for an additional breaker.

I appreciate any suggestions anyone may can offer me?

Thanks much,

Maryjo

[PLUMBER RICK]

maryjo, the dryer is typically a 30 amp circuit. the saw will require either a 15 or 20 amp circuit. so the answer is yes, you do need a deticated circuit for the saw. each appliance needs a dedicated circuit.
it's possible that you might be able to install the thin breakers in your panel:confused:

if not you will need a sub panel.

let the sparks fly:D

rick.

[CWSmith]

With respect for Plumber Rick, unless your local electric code requires separate circuits, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to branch off the 220 v that currently exists on the other side of the wall. As Rick mentioned, the load of both your saw and the dryer running at the same time would (and should) dictate a separate circuit, but if you aren't going to run the dryer at the same time, you may be fine.

I believe your saw is rated at 13/6.5 Amp 120/ 240 Volt AC. The primary reason for having a dual voltage-capable motor is that you can go with the higher voltage if your circuit is approaching its maximum amp rating and possibly overheating the wires.

So, while I'm NOT an certified electrician, I reason that it would certainly prove more economical to use an existing line that would otherwise be dormant (dryer not in use), rather than running another 220 from your home's main load panel. But, you really need to contact a local certified electrician and have him appraise the situation. He will be up-to-date on your local electrical code requirements. You might also wish to contact your local municipal building/electrical code enforcement office to ask about such requirements, then contact the electrician to have him properly do the work.

I hope this helps,

CWS

[TOD]

I got to go with Plumber Rick on this one. With the dryer having a 30 amp breaker that means that the saw will also have 30 amps available to it. Under a heavy load you could over load the motor and cause it to burn out rather than trip a 15 or 20 amp breaker.

[PLUMBER RICK]

With respect for Plumber Rick, unless your local electric code requires separate circuits, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to branch off the 220 v that currently exists on the other side of the wall. As Rick mentioned, the load of both your saw and the dryer running at the same time would (and should) dictate a separate circuit, but if you aren't going to run the dryer at the same time, you may be fine.

I believe your saw is rated at 13/6.5 Amp 120/ 240 Volt AC. The primary reason for having a dual voltage-capable motor is that you can go with the higher voltage if your circuit is approaching its maximum amp rating and possibly overheating the wires.

So, while I'm NOT an certified electrician, I reason that it would certainly prove more economical to use an existing line that would otherwise be dormant (dryer not in use), rather than running another 220 from your home's main load panel. But, you really need to contact a local certified electrician and have him appraise the situation. He will be up-to-date on your local electrical code requirements. You might also wish to contact your local municipal building/electrical code enforcement office to ask about such requirements, then contact the electrician to have him properly do the work.

I hope this helps,

CWS

CWS, she never mentioned anything that the dryer is not used anymore. a dryer circuit is 30 amps. you can't piggyback off of a dedicated circuit.

if the dryer is never going to be used then you can replace the breakers to a 15 or 20 amp breaker and continue the run to the saw. the wires to the dryer will be #10 or #8. the new saw will require #14 for a 15 amp circuit or #12 for a 20 amp circuit. personally i never use 14 gauge wire.

rick.

[maryjo]

Thanks to all for your input. My layman's reasoning is that since my saw can
be plugged into a normal 110-120V wall outlet with a 15amp breaker, then it's highly unlikely that its power/breaker requirements will be greater than those of my clothes dryer which must always be plugged into a 220-240V outlet and which has a dedicated circuit. Also, if I extend the line from the dryer's 220-240V circuit, then won't this be the same as a dedicated line, as long as the dryer isn't being used at the same time as the saw? I read somewhere about others powering their saws via a "branch circuit" from their dryer, but the meaning of this really wasn't clear to me since a dedicated line from the panel could be thought of as a branch.

I was worried about the expense of putting in a new panel box but I didn't know I can install an extension to my current panel so that may be the answer to that problem.

Once again, I appreciate your input. If I can understand what needs to be done, then I hope to save money by doing the work myself and then getting an electrician to come and inspect it.

any more thoughts or ideas?

Maryjo

[PLUMBER RICK]

maryjo,

will it work, yes.

is it safe, no.

the breakers to the dryer should be a twin 30 amp. the saw requires no more than a twin 20 amp. every 240 volt outlet requires a dedicated circuit.

so, if you tap into the dryer outlet and run it to your saw, will it work? yes.

is it legal, is it safe, would i do it at my home? no,no,no.:eek:

sparkies, please chime in. this might be the next mole:D

rick

[CWSmith]

Rick and MaryJo,

My thoughts were that the line run to the dryer may well be a dedicated 30 amp line, but does it have to be? Unless there is an electrical code prohibiting it, you may be able to branch off the line to a separate breaker box which is properly sized to the saw's ampload. (Note that at 240 volts, the saw only requires about 7 amps.) That is why I mentioned consulting a local electrician or code enforcement official. While I agree that the total of both saw and dryer running simultaneously would overload the main 30 amp dedicated line, my thought was that the saw could safely be used when the dryer was not in operation. (I didn't say or mean that the dryer wasn't in use anymore, I simply stated that when the dryer was not being used, the saw could be used safely without overloading the line.) Again, a local electrician or code enforcement official needs to be consulted.

I may be mistaken in my failure to mention the breakout box that would separately protect the saw from overload, but I reasoned that the motor is equipped with its own overload protection; which, I believe, at one time anyway, was all that was required by the NEC. But, updates may well have further requirements and this is why I feel it is essential that a qualified electrician or code enforcement official needs to be consulted. Failure to meet code requirements isn't just a matter of beauracracy, it can be lethal.

Furthermore, if any of these circuits are on a ground floor (concrete basement, garage, or similar area), then the circuits need to employ GFI breakers, for your protection. Again, a qualified electrician in your area, needs to be consulted.

CWS

[Polar Sparky 1224]

A few questions for ya....

How comfortable are you sticking you fingers into a live panel?

You can not tap onto your dryer outlet!

By code when sizing your wire for the demand of the dryer you need to go off the name plate rating. So say your dryer says it runs at 5000 watts you then divide 5000 by 240 and you know you need a wire that can handle 21 amps. And then you have to use a at least a 10/3 AWG for this. Your existing wires for the dryer outlet were not sized to have another load added. So you can either redo the wire going to your dryer outlet if you want to tap into it (which i wouldn't do!)or you can just run a dedicated circuit to where your saw is going to be.

Gfci's are only required in unfinished basements and garages that are not a dedicated circuit.

Does anyone have a freezer in the garage and it nuisance trips the gfci?

Either read you books really good and turn of the power to your whole house when you do this or get a professional to put it in.

If you already have sheet rock up around you panel you can save some money by removing it yourself so they can run the wire in less time.

[maryjo]

Thanks again to everyone for your advice. If I may ask one more question: how is the power turned off to the entire house? In the past, when I've done electrical work I've turned off all the power at the breaker box panel by switching all breakers to the off position but I don't think that will work if I need to install a dedicated line and add a new breaker to the panel.

I don't plan to do anything that will put me in danger. I do, however want to
learn everything I can about what needs to be done.

As I always tell my son, if you like to learn new things, there is never a reason for you to be bored with life.

thanks again. Maryjo

[BigThom]

Turn off the main, that is the big breaker either in the center or at the top. Leave all the other breakers on. If you turned off the correct breaker ALL the power in the house will be off. You have then de-energized the panel. The only live connections are the wires that enter the main breaker and the associated screws on the breaker.

BUT, if your not confident and comfortable, like the polar man says, call a pro.

[maryjo]

Thanks very much. I appreciate the help. Mary

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Turn off the main, that is the big breaker either in the center or at the top. Leave all the other breakers on. If you turned off the correct breaker ALL the power in the house will be off. You have then de-energized the panel. The only live connections are the wires that enter the main breaker and the associated screws on the breaker.

BUT, if your not confident and comfortable, like the polar man says, call a pro.

You mayl also find it outside in your meter panel. You should have a 100 or 200 amp breaker that will turn off you inside panel. If you do not have a main service disconnect CALL AN ELECTRICIAN. I have been shocked a few times but never with more than a few amps. Even i get edgy when working on a hot panel!:D

[MudIsFun]

I think the point he is missing is that the breaker for the drier is 30 amps. His saw is designed to pull several amps less and be on a circuit that for arguments sake is 15 amps. If the saw malfunctions or there is a surge his breaker should trip at 15 amps however he will be plugging into a 30 amp breaker so it wont trip until that 30 amps is exceeded which as far as I am concerned is BAD. At the best he fries his nice new saw, at worse he can be injured/killed or cause a fire.

Call an electriction... They know how to do this correctly. And no, I am one.

Kevin

[BHD]

if you want to you can use that line and come off it, and then go into a two pole breaker box and put in 15 or 20 amp breakers and a plug below or where ever, and you would have the saw protected off the 30 amp dryer out let, by the second breaker box.

but you would not want to use the dryer when your wanting to saw,

on one of my job site table saws I actually have a two pole breaker box directly on the saw it self for the saws protection, and regardless of the amperage of the outlet avable the saw is protected,

also is the saw thermo protected? many tool motors have either a auto reseting or a manual reset if there over heated on the motor them selfs, I am not familiar with ridgid tools,
but if it does (it is not the best) but you could get buy just using the 30 amp circuit, but it would be better to add a additonal small sub panel and lower amperage breaker for the saw,

but you may want to add a few circurits or additional 230 volt out lets while your at it, I think that 85% of my machine tools are on 230 volts. Table saw, arm saw, shaper, horzonal shaper, sander, planer,


the other option is to have new wire pulled between the old panel and up the breaker size and put in a sub panel in the shop and then back off the sub panel back to the dryer and then add some more out lets and 230 volt outlets in the shop for future needs,

[briselec]

I have been shocked a few times but never with more than a few amps.

It takes less than an amp to kill you. In other words, playing around with an outlet is just as dangerous as a panel.

[briselec]

I think the point he is missing is that the breaker for the drier is 30 amps. His saw is designed to pull several amps less and be on a circuit that for arguments sake is 15 amps. If the saw malfunctions or there is a surge his breaker should trip at 15 amps however he will be plugging into a 30 amp breaker so it wont trip until that 30 amps is exceeded which as far as I am concerned is BAD. At the best he fries his nice new saw, at worse he can be injured/killed or cause a fire.

Call an electriction... They know how to do this correctly. And no, I am one.
Kevin

A circuit breaker's job is to protect the wiring, not the appliance. If you want to protect a motor than the correct way is to install some form of overload cutout on the appliance. A standard household circuit breaker is not designed for motor characteristics.

[CWSmith]

That was my point to begin with... the saw's motor has it's own overload protection!

After the initial posts, I checked an old code book and saw where it specifies a dedicated circuit for a laundry room (if I understood it correctly). However, my initial reasoning was to answer the original question about the possibilities of running a breakout from the 30 amp line, because of the cost and lack of additional capacity on the existing load panel. My answer was "Yes, unless there was some code against it" (which apparently there is).

However, from a capacity and demand point of view, the saw would be okay, because it has it's own overload protection and that was all that was required at one time. However, I don't know if the code requirements have changed. So, given the original scenario, the saw could be safely run, but NOT at the same time as the clothes dryer. It really wouldn't be any different than running a line to your saw and also trying to run your compressor or dust collection system off the same circuit... you'd run the possibility of tripping the breaker.

The argument made that the 13 amp saw motor would be in jeopardy if plugged into a 30 amp line, really doesn't make sense to me. Certainly there is no pronounced warnings against plugging your 3-amp vacuum cleaner into the fairly standard 15 or 20 amp circuit. The motor will simply draw what it needs. Am I wrong in this presumption?

Now the question I have is: If there isn't additional capacity in the main circuit breaker panel to run a separate line to the saw and a line needs to be "dedicated" to the dryer... can the existing dryer line be run to a small circuit breaker box (instead of the dryer) and then, branch out to serve the saw and the dryer separately. Each of these would be protected by their own, dedicated, circuit. The end result being that you still have the one 30 amp line coming from the main panel to a small circuit breaker box located in the utility area, and from there, you'd have a "dedicated line" to the dryer and a second "dedicated line" to the saw. Wouldn't this satisfy any code requirement for a dedicated line? If so, then that would relieve the need to upgrade the existing main load center just so you can run another line out to the saw.

Basically, I see this as no different than what I have have requested with my newly purchased home. The electrician has just upgraded the service from 100 to 200 amp. The next step will be to have the electrician install a 50 or 60 amp breaker in the main panel and run a line to my garage where a second panel will branch the load into separate circuits for lights and tools. I'm now waiting for his estimate to do that, but he certainly didn't raise any concerns when I outlined the project to him.

Thanks,

CWS

[Bob D.]

" A circuit breaker's job is to protect the wiring, not the appliance. "

I would add; "or people" , to the above after appliance.

Also, is not the overload protection on the motor a thermal overload meant only to protect the motor from overheating NOT an overcurrent protective device (which could eventually cause overheating, and hence a thermal trip) and as such the thermal overload can not be used in place of a circuit breaker?

[briselec]

" Also, is not the overload protection on the motor a thermal overload meant only to protect the motor from overheating NOT an overcurrent protective device (which could eventually cause overheating, and hence a thermal trip) and as such the thermal overload can not be used in place of a circuit breaker?

You still need a circuit breaker regardless. What I meant was that the best way of protecting a motor is with an adjustable overload as commonly used with 3 phase motor starters. A bit of an overkill for a 220V saw.

Being in Australia I don't know your code there, but would a changeover switch so you can only use the saw or the dryer but not both at the same time still satisfy the code requirement for a dedicated circuit to the dryer?

[briselec]

The argument made that the 13 amp saw motor would be in jeopardy if plugged into a 30 amp line, really doesn't make sense to me. Certainly there is no pronounced warnings against plugging your 3-amp vacuum cleaner into the fairly standard 15 or 20 amp circuit. The motor will simply draw what it needs. Am I wrong in this presumption?

One of the main deciding factors in how big a bang you get if something shorts out is the fault current capacity of the supply. For most domestic installations this is quite small. It's only with commercial and industrial installations that are fed by a large, nearby transformer that this can be high and we use things such as fault current limiting fuses to throttle it. Here in Australia it's the responsibilty of the electrician to consider what the fault current will be when he designs an electrical installation.
Of course it would be best if an appliance is used on a circuit with a rating not considerably higher than the appliance but it is because the fault current capacity has been thought of that you don't end up engulfed in a fireball when your electric shaver develops a short.

[Polar Sparky 1224]

It takes less than an amp to kill you. In other words, playing around with an outlet is just as dangerous as a panel.

That's why i don't work on hot panel's if i don't have to.

[QUOTE=briselec]You still need a circuit breaker regardless. What I meant was that the best way of protecting a motor is with an adjustable overload as commonly used with 3 phase motor starters. A bit of an overkill for a 220V saw.

You still need a circuit breaker but take out the dryer's 30 amp breaker and replace it with a 75 amp or 50 amp breaker. From there run power to a sub panel near or in your garage. Then you can have the dryer pulled from there and your outlets for your shop. A 75 amp panel is usually what we us when finishing someones basement. This is really the smartest thing to do for your saws needs.

You need to have a dedicated breaker for the dryer. If i just spent $560 on a saw i wouldn't try any shortcuts to power it.

[CWSmith]

You still need a circuit breaker but take out the dryer's 30 amp breaker and replace it with a 75 amp or 50 amp breaker. From there run power to a sub panel near or in your garage. Then you can have the dryer pulled from there and your outlets for your shop. A 75 amp panel is usually what we us when finishing someones basement. This is really the smartest thing to do for your saws needs.

You need to have a breaker for the dryer only.


Polar Sparky,

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting replacing the original breaker to a higher 50 or 75 amp, and replacing the existing line in order to handle this heavier load to a new box (located in the laundry and workshop area); but now you're not going to "breaker" the saw? Isn't this contrary to what was stated before? Now the saw is connected into a 50 or 75 amp line and not the existing 30 amp, which was thought to be a danger!

Thanks (and last question from me on the subject),

CWS

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Sorry, i meant to say the dryer is on a dedicated circuit and you have the outlets for your shop powered by the new sub panel. It is kind of hard to connect you black wires to the panel without using a breaker though. It is kind of a given that anytime you have devices getting power from a panel you need to have a breaker to get them powered in the first place.

[TOD]

Let me see if I can make this clear. Take the 30 amp feed to the dryer and hook it to the new sub panel. At the new sub panel it gets split 30 amps to the dryer and 15 to the saw. Now 30 plus 15 is 45. The breaker at the main panel now needs to be at least 45 amps. So replace it with a 50. My only concern is the gauge of the wire to the dryer to begin with. Will it handle 50 amps?

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Take 4 AWG aluminum service entrance cable cable from the 75 amp breaker that took the place of the dryer breaker. This wire feeds you sub panel with from which you run 10 AWG to you dryer and 12 AWG to the added circuits for your shop. You then have 45 amps left over which should be plenty for your shops needs. You can also use 10 AWG for you TS3650. Bigger wire doesn't change the amps of the circuit since the circuit breaker determines the amps running down your wire. 12 AWG THHN at 194 degree's Fahrenheit can handle 30 amps but you need that extra capacity so that if a spike or surge happens you don't burn up your wire.

Even then your home's service is sized based on square feet and your AC, Range, Dryer, Water heater, Electric heat, 3 Volt/Amps per square foot plus 1500 VA's for each small appliance circuit in your kitchen, and 1500 VA's for you laundry room outlets. (the first 3000 of this is counted at 100% and 35% of the remainder from 3001 to 120,000.)

[MD MASTER SPARKY]

I,ve been reading all the posts here and to mee it seems the cwsmith is the only one who has a clue

polar sparky needs to go back to school and stop giving bad advice your gonna get someone killed.

first of read article240.6 (a) 75 is not a standard fuse size so no fuse or breakers are manufactured at this amperage so you need to pay more attention on the job or find a new profession
some of what you say is correct but not for the application in which you apply it to.
i've never seen a 75 amp panel they dont make one they do make a 60,or a 125 then you go on to talk about a three phase motor starter you make no sense.
next 30 amps for # 12 thhn?? i'll just leave that one alone (310.16)

you also forgot that a dryer circuit is typicaly 4 wire (2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground) the saw evryone is refering to should be 3 wire (2 hots 1 ground) which in the electrical industry is called a balanced load.

a simple solution would be:

if the dryer outlet is in close vecinity to the saw you are trying to operate just simply make an extention cord out of # 10 wire with a dryer plug on one end and get a simple 30 amp fused dusconect which can be fused at 15, 20 or what ever attach this disconect to the table then from the disconect you can now pull a 220v. receptacle which would be protected, cost efficiant and safe.
you wont have to worry about the dryer being used at the same time because the plug will be utilized at the time the saw is on and when you want to use the dryer just unplug the saw.

I would be very careful as to what advice i would seek from polar
I have read just about every post by you and they are either wrong or you simply don't know what you are talking about.
this is the same guy who said not to install a gfci in an unfinished basement because of neusanse tripping eaven though it is a damp location "just get a rubber mat" lol
I espesially like how you have told evryone how to install a 75 amp subpanel on 30 amp rated wire.

you should atleast know the code before quoting it.or is this what the electric schools in utah teach??

by your responses you have proven your electrical skill and knoledge which are like your 75 amp breaker non existant.

[frenchelectrican]

one thing i was watching this forum for quite a while but the way it gone i going to agree with MD master sparky with this one and i dont see 75 amp fuse or breaker as standard size at all

i dont know who idea to increase the breaker size to much bigger on dryer circuit this is very insane to do this :eek:

i will never do this fashion of set up either run new subfeed box to garage or use the fused or breaker box as MD master sparky suggest from dryer rep.

i am sorry but i have to step in and stop this before it got out of hand and someone get hurt or destory the wires along the way

Merci , Marc

[ master electrician both usa and france ]

[swoosh81]

Take 4 AWG aluminum service entrance cable cable from the 75 amp breaker that took the place of the dryer breaker.
Could you please explain this to me? Why such large wire? Where do you get a 75 amp breaker? Where do you get a 75 amp subpanel? Who's gonna inspect and pass this piece of electrical devestation?

This wire feeds you sub panel with from which you run 10 AWG to you dryer and 12 AWG to the added circuits for your shop. You then have 45 amps left over for your shop needs.
Why do all the breakers in my panel add up to over 300 amps but yet I never trip the main with a 200 amp panel?

I only ask these questions because I don't understand your logic in them. As a licensed elctrician like you've stated you are where did you come up with this?

This is not a shot at you in anyway, so I don't wanna feel any hard feelings from you.

[Hector B]

Cousin Vinny always said a penny works better anyways.:eek:
Too bad about the fire.... lost his whole place and insurance wouldn't pay 'cause of a penny.:(

[Polar Sparky 1224]

3 points to make right off.
1. read the disclaimer.
2. If i am wrong , and i know i messed up on a few things, then why wait until now to jump in? Why not sooner when this thread first appeared?
3. Yes i am still learning and if I was master MD's Apprentice i would have no people skills whatsoever.

At work the journeyman i am with mentioned how we put a 75 amp panel in most basements Either i misunderstood him or, he meant to say 70 amp panel.

As for Gfci's if you have a dedicated circuit for an appliance in you basement like a freezer, water heater, furnace, or other appliance's connected with cord then you don't need to have them gfci protected. Some of your tools which are double insulated, (if you don't understand "double insulated, I'm sure master MD wrote a paper on it.:D ) pose no danger to the user. Some larger tools with the inrush of current may trip a gfci constantly. But if they don't trip the gfci the who Care's.

master MD read pg 71 of the manual for the TS3650. The dryer outlet won't work, since the saws cord only has two conductors and a ground wire. The saw also has it's own overload protection. As a consolation it does tell you in the manual to get an electrician to re wire you motor if you are unfamiliar with how to do it yourself.
So you can't just go plug you $649 dollar saw into the dryer outlet, the sub panel is the best option really, and since the 75 amp panel and breaker don't exist then a 70 or 80 will have to do.
So what size feeder would you use for a 70 amp panel?

[MD MASTER SPARKY]

polar,
you are wrong again, that is the purpose for installing the disconect
you will cap off the neutral wire and install a receptacle dude you claim to be a licensed wireman this is simple stuff.

please make your posts as educated as possible a 70 or 80 amp sub panel dont exist either you can breaker a 125 amp panel to 70 or 80 amps nec 310.14 says that # 4 thhn is good for 85 amps.

you are also must be mis understanding the guy you work with because morethan likeley you are installing a 60 amp sub panel fed with #6/3 romex not S.E.C.

and if you were my apprntice you might not have any people skills but you would be a better electrician than what you have proven yourself to be.

[MD MASTER SPARKY]

Polar,
do you eaven own a current copy of NFPA 70 ?? (N.E.C.)

or hasnt the guy you work for taught you about the code yet ??

and if you do have a copy you should take some time to read and understand it.
I dont believe that you are licensed like you claim. nor do i believe that you are an accredited apprentice

you are just an installer ( a house monkey) installing circuitry that someone else other than you has layed out and you dont need to understand how it works

by the way this is a shot at you because i know you are full of crap

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

Wow, I forget to check in for a couple weeks, look what happens. :D

a simple solution would be:

if the dryer outlet is in close vecinity to the saw you are trying to operate just simply make an extention cord out of # 10 wire with a dryer plug on one end and get a simple 30 amp fused dusconect which can be fused at 15, 20 or what ever attach this disconect to the table then from the disconect you can now pull a 220v. receptacle which would be protected, cost efficiant and safe.
That's a pretty funny solution. Why spend $20, when you can spend $80 and have something to bang your leg on (the disconnect)? And have the joys of moving your dryer everytime you work in the garage! :p

MD: You love tearing Polar a new one, and the fact is, he has never made any claims to knowing everything. You can politely make your point without being so da**ed negative.

For what it's worth, if I install a 125A 30-space subpanel on a 70A breaker, I will call it a "70 amp panel" so that Joe Homeowner will not think he has 125A to play with. Further, in pleasant conversation, I don't whip out a code book and verify that indeed, a 70 amp breaker exists. I generally will on a forum post, but not always. So lay off the pointless insults - you look way cooler making polite corrections.

Swoosh, I give you props for the respect with which you posted.

Mary, can we start from the top on this?
What brand of panel is it? Model number?
Is there anything that says "200A 20/30space panelboard" or something along those lines on it?

It could very well be that all you need is a few tandem breakers to free up two slots in your panel, and a chunk of 12-2, and a 20A 250V receptacle.

But before we endorse this, we need to know what type of panel it is, and how many spaces it is allowed to have. A 20/30 space panel, for example, has 20 spaces, but 5 rows of the busses the breaker plugs into allow tandem breakers (so the absolute max is 30 breakers).

[MD MASTER SPARKY]

you should not have to whip out the code book to see if a certain type of breaker exists as a licensed electrician you should know what types exist or dont

i/m done with this one

[Polar Sparky 1224]

A 70 amp sub panel is made by square D....there is no 80 darn:D

http://www.squared.com/us/products/load_centers.nsf/unid/FA4F8CCF49CAA87B85256AF5005C4262/$file/homelineloadcentersFrameset.htm

http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/173/html/sections/01/17301010.html

[PLUMBER RICK]

maryjo, the dryer is typically a 30 amp circuit. the saw will require either a 15 or 20 amp circuit. so the answer is yes, you do need a deticated circuit for the saw. each appliance needs a dedicated circuit.
it's possible that you might be able to install the thin breakers in your panel:confused:

if not you will need a sub panel.

let the sparks fly:D

rick.

all you sparkies, didn't i state all of this in the first post?

when i said let the sparks fly, i didn't expect another "mole".

sound's like maryjo checked out on this one. maybe follow her lead:eek:

there is always a difference of opinion when you have pros in the trade.
just read some of the plumbing threads:eek:

or better yet, all of you that feel you're correct, just go down to maryjo's and do it for her. that way it's safe and this subject is closed:D

rick.

[swoosh81]

1. read the disclaimer.
2. If i am wrong , and i know i messed up on a few things, then why wait until now to jump in? Why not sooner when this thread first appeared?
1. I did that's why I don't listen to you!!
2.The reason I didn't is because this forum isn't my life as it seems to be some of the peoples in here!! So I'm not on here every night!!


So what size feeder would you use for a 70 amp panel?

Now in previous topics you said you had your license so you should know:D . But since you don't I'll tell ya the proper feeder is 6/3 romex!!

[TOD]

How many ways can you beat a dead horse?

[Polar Sparky 1224]

My dad always said "hit it till it quits squirming.":D
Plumber Rick what other "moles" can you think of?

is it any wonder we get the reputation for whining a lot?

[Rocky Mountain Sparky]

Now in previous topics you said you had your license so you should know :D .
Uh, he was honest enough to post his license, which had APPRENTICE stamped on it. I'm sure you knew everything as an apprentice, but the rest of us have a learning curve, I guess.

For all your talk, you were not brave enough to back up your tone with a piece of paper to answer this apprentice's card, so perhaps you should drop it, ey?

But since you don't I'll tell ya the proper feeder is 6/3 romex!!
When you post a joke, you need to clarify that it's a joke so that people don't walk away thinking you were serious. You see, I have the NEC, so I know that if you want 70 amps from NM cable, then you must size the conductors according to the 60° column from Table 310.16, because 334.80 tells me so.

See, so I get your joke because I know that 6/3 romex is only good for 55 amps, which I can breaker at 60 amps according to 240.4(B).

But I don't think anybody else in here got your joke.

Edit: Come to think of it, even if you were using conduit and THHN, if you used #6 THHN, it would only be good for 65A, so you wouldn't really squeeze 70 amps out of it. We could breaker it at 70 if the load didn't exceed 65A, but it's technically not worth 70A at that rate. I guess maybe I don't get your joke either....?

[tico]

If you want to run a dedicated line you may be able to use minis and free up some space for your new circuit.

[Lorax]

That was PlumberRicks' solution 3 weeks ago.

[PLUMBER RICK]

That was PlumberRicks' solution 3 weeks ago.

lorax, i think that i answered the whole question 3 weeks ago post #2:D

these electricians just want to bring up the electrical forum count:rolleyes:

if not the forum will get droped:eek:

so far all they managed to do is piss off "plumber":(


it's always better to be pissed off, than pissed on:eek:.

do ya know what happened to the fly on the toilet bowl:confused:

first he got pissed on, then he got pissed off:p

plumbers humor:rolleyes:

rick.

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Just leave the dead horse alone!:( :( :( :( :(

[swoosh81]

do ya know what happened to the fly on the toilet bowl:confused:

first he got pissed on, then he got pissed off:p

plumbers humor:rolleyes:

rick.

brilliant!! i needed a good laugh!!

[Lorax]

Just leave the dead horse alone!:( :( :( :( :(

Don't you have a table saw to build??:p

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Don't you have a table saw to build??:p

Did ya finish the crib yet?:p :p

[Lorax]

Did ya finish the crib yet?:p :p

As a matter of fact, all that's left is to apply the finish. :D I was gonna post a pic but my photo editing software is screwed up! :mad: I hate compooters!:mad:

[Polar Sparky 1224]

Same here i can't send pictures from my phone to the computer until i re-install the software for the 7th time