32 Volt tools? Rumour

[Scott K]

I heard a "rough" rumour that DeWalt will be making 32 volt tools potentially in the future. Just a rumour though. Any other interesting rumours out there?
I heard this today from a coworker whom I know who talks to a few guys here and there at various suppliers (I'm his apprentice).

[BadgerDave]

I can't confirm this rumor either but the word around here is that Harbor Freight is coming out with a 50V drill/driver for $6.98, $5.58 with a 20% off coupon.http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif

[CheekyMonkeyWrench]

Yes, Dewalt is contemplating filling in between the 18V and 36V. So expect to see even number fill-ins in the next week or so.

so, by Turkey day, you should see the 20V, 22, 24, 26......36V.

[oldslowchevy]

:confused: why?:confused: Yes, Dewalt is contemplating filling in between the 18V and 36V. So expect to see even number fill-ins in the next week or so.

so, by Turkey day, you should see the 20V, 22, 24, 26......36V.

[CWSmith]

I've been using 120-volt tools for years, it's hard to imagine wanting to downgrade!! ;)


Seriously though, for cordless don't these ever-increasing voltage tools add significant weight and also a bit expensive as everyone tries to keep up with this race for more power? Really how much more can one do with a 32-volt tool that they can't do with an 18-volt or 24-volt tool?

I do have a couple 14.4 volt tools and like their performance and convenience, but as I see these ever-increasing voltage tools hit the market, it makes me think that the lower end will become obsolete quickly as the manufacturer decides to stop producing the lower end batteries. If so, it will confirm my long-standing opinion that buying almost any cordless tool is a rather poor investment in the long run.

CWS

[CheekyMonkeyWrench]

OSC,

I was being sarcastic :)

[Paladin2025]

I've been using 120-volt tools for years, it's hard to imagine wanting to downgrade!! ;)


Seriously though, for cordless don't these ever-increasing voltage tools add significant weight and also a bit expensive as everyone tries to keep up with this race for more power? Really how much more can one do with a 32-volt tool that they can't do with an 18-volt or 24-volt tool?

I do have a couple 14.4 volt tools and like their performance and convenience, but as I see these ever-increasing voltage tools hit the market, it makes me think that the lower end will become obsolete quickly as the manufacturer decides to stop producing the lower end batteries. If so, it will confirm my long-standing opinion that buying almost any cordless tool is a rather poor investment in the long run.

CWS

CWS-

I just purchased a Ridgid 24v cordless set. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that the battery weighs less or at the most, the same as the 18v battery from Ridgid. It's pretty much as heavy as I want to go for a cordless tool. I remember picking up an old Bosch 24v set, and wondering how big my arm needed to be to haul those tools around on a regular basis.

[erngum]

I tend to agree with CWS. I don't have a huge need for cordless tools so buying professional grade cordless is pointless for my home owner duties. I mostly work in my small garage woodshop with corded and bench tools. Almost all of my cordless tools are Ryobi, and disposable.

I firmly believe my Ryobi recip. saw will last me fifty years. Because in fifty years I will have used it about 6 times.

Here is the latest entry at 20 volts. That leaves 22, 26, 30, 32, and 34 up for grabs.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Portable+Power+Tools&pid=00926325000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Combo+Kits&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

erngum

[oldslowchevy]

dang i really wish some one would make a 27.66 volt tool that would be awsome

[Velosapien]

Most of my tools are still corded but some of my cordless tools have already taken place as the primary tool relegating the corded model as a last ditch backup. I can't imagine ever wasting money on a corded drill again. And who needs a corded impact driver, if they existed(driver not wrench)?

18v realistically is not powerfull enough to run most tools. Its fine for drills and tools that don't require as much raw power but its seriously undepowered for saws, rotary hammers and other high power draining tools. Anybody whose used an 18v cordless saw knows this. Most of these tools hardly become heavier once the battery pack is factored in. Cordless tools are only as heavy as the amount of cells you try to pack into them anyway. Makita just came out with an 18v 3.5 pound drill with the same power as the high end models. I don't think you can get a corded drill at that size or with that power. Compact corded drills are quite underepowered. Corded power tools are limited to what you can do with the 120v available at the outlet. As battery and cordless technology keeps improving Im pretty sure we might see cordless power start to outpace corded in many respects. Right now the 36v hammer drill has the same power rating as their most powerfull corded hammer drill yet its like two thirds the size. They also claim the recip saw cut faster than their own high end corded model in tests.

[Velosapien]

CWS-

I just purchased a Ridgid 24v cordless set. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that the battery weighs less or at the most, the same as the 18v battery from Ridgid. It's pretty much as heavy as I want to go for a cordless tool. I remember picking up an old Bosch 24v set, and wondering how big my arm needed to be to haul those tools around on a regular basis.


Its not just Bosch. Dewalt's 24v tools are stupid heavy as well. 24v NiCD tools were just a bad idea and I don't think it ever really cought on judging by the seemingly scarce availability of them. NiCD battery technology is just too heavy and already pushing its practical weight limit at 18v.

[Velosapien]

I heard a "rough" rumour that DeWalt will be making 32 volt tools potentially in the future. Just a rumour though. Any other interesting rumours out there?
I heard this today from a coworker whom I know who talks to a few guys here and there at various suppliers (I'm his apprentice).

Dewalts site says new 36v tools comming soon. Are you sure he's not refering to that? 32v just doesn't make much sense.

[Scott K]

The 36 volt DeWalt Cordless power tools have been out for the past year or so in case you haven't seen them at your local Home Centre or Tool store. But like I said I heard a rumour they may be considering 32 volt tools as well. Why, I don't know? It really doesn't make sense to me. But this is a fairly strong rumour too so I posted this to see what anyone else has heard.

In all honesty I think it's cool that most of the tool manufacturers, at least the main cordless ones so far, seem to have a large cordless drill voltage and tool line (e.g. Dewalt 36 volt, Milwaukee 28 volt) which is as light as the previous 18 volt Ni-cads, and then they're looking at improving/retrofitting their existing 18 volt Ni-cad tools with lithium ion batteries and/or redesigning them for a lighter, not as heavy duty or expensive alternative. I think in the long run you're better off to focus on one or two voltage numbers and work with it. It's important then of course to pick a good voltage that can cover your arse for a good selection/tool platform with respect to power available. I'm a huge fan of the Milwaukee 28 volts because of their reputation, the power is more than enough for my needs for the most part as a Plumber, the batteries have indicators on them, and they also have a cordless right angle drill that has big balls which is huge for plumbers, electricians, & sprinklerfitters which for me is huge personally, plus their SDS cordless hammer drill. Those 2 tools I will be adding to my 4 piece set in the next year.

What I would honestly like to see, is some of these manufacturers take aim not just at corded tools with their cordless tool platforms, but take a real strong attack on generators for sites that may be on the boonies that don't have power. Build cordless flood lights, perhaps tools that are normally high amperage tools, that run on 2 batteries, OR, design a very high voltage line like a 48 or 60 volt battery pack (yes I know it will be big - but just listen) that you can run things like chop saws, and other normally high amperage, often stationary tools on (i.e. tools that you don't normally carry with you, but rest in one location and do cuts from or work from). But that would be a serious undertaking and I don't know how viable they would be. Or perhaps design a generator with built in charger bays, plus plug ins for tools that are high amperage/power that use or should have 120 volts AC.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

DeWalt's drill might "look" heavy, but it's not. Milwaukee's V28 is rated at 6.7lbs, 36V is 6.9lbs..and a more powerful drill to boot. .2 lbs difference - big friggin deal.

In comparison, Milwaukee's 18V "Lok Tor" drill is 6.5lbs and only an 18V!

You're not really talking a huge difference in weight here, especially considering the gain in power.

[Velosapien]

The 36 volt DeWalt Cordless power tools have been out for the past year or so in case you haven't seen them at your local Home Centre or Tool store. But like I said I heard a rumour they may be considering 32 volt tools as well. Why, I don't know? It really doesn't make sense to me. But this is a fairly strong rumour too so I posted this to see what anyone else has heard.




Sorry I didn't specify too clearly what I was trying to say. I do know the 36v tools have been out for a bit now but only with the more basic tools. Its just that I was browsing the Dewalt site and noticed it said more 36v tools comming soon. I thought perhaps thats what was being refered to in the rumor you heard. I can see Dewalt doing an in between line of the 18 and 36v tools but 32v just sounds so unlikely and pointless.

[Velosapien]

DeWalt's drill might "look" heavy, but it's not. Milwaukee's V28 is rated at 6.7lbs, 36V is 6.9lbs..and a more powerful drill to boot. .2 lbs difference - big friggin deal.

In comparison, Milwaukee's 18V "Lok Tor" drill is 6.5lbs and only an 18V!

You're not really talking a huge difference in weight here, especially considering the gain in power.

It still is fairly heavy but considering the massive power gain its really not a big deal. I got their new DC925 18v hammer drill which weighs 6.1lbs, it replaced the older DC988 which weighs 5.9. Their rated power was 420 UWO for the DC988 and the DC925 increased it to 510 UWO. Its just under a 20% increase in power but testing both drills side to side the DC925 was immediately noticeable as being quite more powerfull. Drilling 3/16 and 1/4" holes into reinforced concrete with large stone aggregate the DC925 went in considerably faster and with less effort. Now the 36v drill is rated at 750 UWO! Thats not bad for a 0.8lb increase! That not only outclasses their corded models but when you compare them side to side the cordless is actually a fair bit more compact. For comparisons sake Boschs 24v drill weighs 7.7lbs!

[Scott K]

Yeah supposedly (or so I recall) the Milwaukee V18 tools are actually true 20 volt batteries from what I recall hearing/reading on the Tool talk forum when they had it on the Milwaukee site.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

I bought the DeWalt 36V set not too long ago, and I am consistenly blown away with the power every time I use them. They are absolutely awesome. I wasn't too big on DeWalt before, always thought they were just so so, but this kit changed my mind.

At first I was majorly skeptical, so the first thing I did was chuck a 2 9/16" Milwaukee self feed bit into the drill, clamped down a 2x6 and went to town. boom boom boom boom.. hole after hole, the drill screams through like nothin'. It bareley even strains the motor, doesn't slow down, whimper, stall or anything.. now haven't tried it yet, but there's no doubt it will drive a 3+" self feed bit quite easily. The torque and speed output is phenomenal. This thing will take any corded drill to task.

The circular saw was next.. with a 7 1/4" blade I thought for sure it would be underpowered, but it cuts through wood like s**t through a goose. lol cuts curves, veers off the line without even coming close to stalling..you name it, it will do it. Plus it gives you that familar "growl" as it shreds through a 2x6 like a corded 7 1/4 saw does. I can't describe it on here, but you know what I'm talking about.. it's kind of like hearing a V8 after listening to 4 cyliner engines for so long. it's just...satisfying.. lol Mind you the motor itself is way quieter than a corded circ. In fact it sounds like a regular 18V saw pretty much - but the similarity ends when you start cutting. Majorly impressive. The fact that they made a 7 1/4" circ is a HUGE step in cordless. I remember on Milwaukee Tool Talk they were saying they tried to make a V28 7 1/4", but the power output was too much like a 6 1/2" 18V. So DeWalt have made a major breakthrough here.

The recip saw is a bloody machine gun. It's just plain mean, and a wickedly fun tool to use, but you have to be careful. Not even under the worst loading will it stall and in fact it could rip itself out of your hands before giving up, so you have to watch it. This is a full-force demolition saw that would challenge an 11 AMP corded sawzall no problem.

The batteries - they are great. They don't get hot, they charge great and last forever with the well published fade-free power. Most of the charge seems to happen within the first 30 minutes, so if you're in a hurry it's great There's no fuel gauge on the batteries though - you have to put them in the charger to see that charge level, but actually that doesn't bother me. in fact I appreciate the fact that DeWalt didn't do that because then your tools start to feel like your cellphone. What's next? a satelite phone and downloadable games built into your drill? lol

as far as the weight goes, it just doesn't bother me at all. The drill is 6.9lbs, but as a comparison, my old Milwaukee 18V is 6.5lbs and nowhere near the power or battery endurance. I've always found DeWalt's ergonomics to be top notch anyway and their balance is always bang on.

[Scott K]

Sceeter - but we just have to know:

Is it a DeWalt 36 volt drill, or a DeWobble 36 volt drill?

I'm quite frankly blown away by the 28 Volt Milwaukee Sawzall. I think it's a great tool. I haven't had the chance to put the drill through it's paces yet. Made a few cuts with the circ saw and the circ saw always seems to surprise you. It doesn't get the RPM's initially (well, 4200 RPM which is better thant he 18 volts I've used in the past), but it seems to have good torque for maintaining RPM's through the cut. That's what I've found with all cordless 18 volt circ saws and the Milwaukee 28 volt circ saw seems to follow suit only it has more power and more RPM's. I honestly couldln't ask for more myself being a plumber. I'm not doing cross cuts or ripping all day, just a bit of backing here, a bit of backing there, demoing or cutting out this, and drill holes here and there or screws for hangers or for clamps to hold pipe, or to drill holes in masonary to bolt down toilet flanges. I'm looking forward to the 28 volt Right Angle drill I got on my to buy list. I heard it turns the big self feeds very well.

[Velosapien]

I bought the DeWalt 36V set not too long ago, and I am consistenly blown away with the power every time I use them. They are absolutely awesome. I wasn't too big on DeWalt before, always thought they were just so so, but this kit changed my mind.

At first I was majorly skeptical, so the first thing I did was chuck a 2 9/16" Milwaukee self feed bit into the drill, clamped down a 2x6 and went to town. boom boom boom boom.. hole after hole, the drill screams through like nothin'. It bareley even strains the motor, doesn't slow down, whimper, stall or anything.. now haven't tried it yet, but there's no doubt it will drive a 3+" self feed bit quite easily. The torque and speed output is phenomenal. This thing will take any corded drill to task.

The circular saw was next.. with a 7 1/4" blade I thought for sure it would be underpowered, but it cuts through wood like s**t through a goose. lol cuts curves, veers off the line without even coming close to stalling..you name it, it will do it. Plus it gives you that familar "growl" as it shreds through a 2x6 like a corded 7 1/4 saw does. I can't describe it on here, but you know what I'm talking about.. it's kind of like hearing a V8 after listening to 4 cyliner engines for so long. it's just...satisfying.. lol Mind you the motor itself is way quieter than a corded circ. In fact it sounds like a regular 18V saw pretty much - but the similarity ends when you start cutting. Majorly impressive. The fact that they made a 7 1/4" circ is a HUGE step in cordless. I remember on Milwaukee Tool Talk they were saying they tried to make a V28 7 1/4", but the power output was too much like a 6 1/2" 18V. So DeWalt have made a major breakthrough here.

The recip saw is a bloody machine gun. It's just plain mean, and a wickedly fun tool to use, but you have to be careful. Not even under the worst loading will it stall and in fact it could rip itself out of your hands before giving up, so you have to watch it. This is a full-force demolition saw that would challenge an 11 AMP corded sawzall no problem.

The batteries - they are great. They don't get hot, they charge great and last forever with the well published fade-free power. Most of the charge seems to happen within the first 30 minutes, so if you're in a hurry it's great There's no fuel gauge on the batteries though - you have to put them in the charger to see that charge level, but actually that doesn't bother me. in fact I appreciate the fact that DeWalt didn't do that because then your tools start to feel like your cellphone. What's next? a satelite phone and downloadable games built into your drill? lol

as far as the weight goes, it just doesn't bother me at all. The drill is 6.9lbs, but as a comparison, my old Milwaukee 18V is 6.5lbs and nowhere near the power or battery endurance. I've always found DeWalt's ergonomics to be top notch anyway and their balance is always bang on.

Thanks for the review! I've been eyeing the 36v tools for a while but really wanted to hear some reactions first. I mainly am interested in them for the circular saw, reciprocating saw and hammer drill, possibly the rotary hammer too. From what you've said it seems they might be exactly what I wanted! I have Dewalt 18v tools and recently got the updated 18v hammer drill which shares the new self tightening chuck design used on the 36v drill. This chuck alone makes the hammer drill worth while and stand out from the competition. No more super tightening of keyed chuck or peeling your hands on keyless chucks to keep bits from slipping in hammer mode. Just turn till it stops and click. Works like a dream. I agree their drills have great ergonomics. Perfectly center balanced with the battery pack tucked in close and parallel to the main body for a lower profile rather than the sprawled out design almost everyone else uses.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

LOL no, it's not a DeWobble this time. The chuck is straight. I can't believe that chuck wobble problem they had on the old XRP series and older drills. It was just embarassing. How on earth could they have let that out the door?

V28 are good tools and it was a tough decision between between that and the 36V. The 7 1/4" blade was one of the selling points though. So I gave DeWalt another chance and it looks like they have a winner this time.

I think the V28 sawzall is as powerful as the 36V, the specs are pretty much the same.

How do you find the hammerdrill? most reviews seem to say it's pretty powerful.

Sceeter - but we just have to know:

Is it a DeWalt 36 volt drill, or a DeWobble 36 volt drill?

I'm quite frankly blown away by the 28 Volt Milwaukee Sawzall. I think it's a great tool. I haven't had the chance to put the drill through it's paces yet. Made a few cuts with the circ saw and the circ saw always seems to surprise you. It doesn't get the RPM's initially (well, 4200 RPM which is better thant he 18 volts I've used in the past), but it seems to have good torque for maintaining RPM's through the cut. That's what I've found with all cordless 18 volt circ saws and the Milwaukee 28 volt circ saw seems to follow suit only it has more power and more RPM's. I honestly couldln't ask for more myself being a plumber. I'm not doing cross cuts or ripping all day, just a bit of backing here, a bit of backing there, demoing or cutting out this, and drill holes here and there or screws for hangers or for clamps to hold pipe, or to drill holes in masonary to bolt down toilet flanges. I'm looking forward to the 28 volt Right Angle drill I got on my to buy list. I heard it turns the big self feeds very well.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

The self-tightening chuck is pretty damn cool. You'd swear it's not tight after turning and clicking it once, but I've never had it let of of the bit at all.

The new DC925 is a nice unit..definit improvement over the older 988.

Thanks for the review! I've been eyeing the 36v tools for a while but really wanted to hear some reactions first. I mainly am interested in them for the circular saw, reciprocating saw and hammer drill, possibly the rotary hammer too. From what you've said it seems they might be exactly what I wanted! I have Dewalt 18v tools and recently got the updated 18v hammer drill which shares the new self tightening chuck design used on the 36v drill. This chuck alone makes the hammer drill worth while and stand out from the competition. No more super tightening of keyed chuck or peeling your hands on keyless chucks to keep bits from slipping in hammer mode. Just turn till it stops and click. Works like a dream. I agree their drills have great ergonomics. Perfectly center balanced with the battery pack tucked in close and parallel to the main body for a lower profile rather than the sprawled out design almost everyone else uses.

[Velosapien]

Everyone check this out. DeWalt really has gone ape :eek: Yes, now they do have 24 Volt cordless tools out. What comes next?

http://www.dewalt.com/us/cordless/cordless_systems/tool_detail_listing.asp?voltage=24

Those are the old NiCD 24v tools which have been out for a very long time. They're just not very popular because of the weight and size. I wouldn't be surprised if that entire 24V line is phased out in favor of the 36v tools, which make the 24v line obsolete in pretty much every respect except price maybe.

[Velosapien]

The self-tightening chuck is pretty damn cool. You'd swear it's not tight after turning and clicking it once, but I've never had it let of of the bit at all.

The new DC925 is a nice unit..definit improvement over the older 988.

Hey I forgot to ask. How does the 36v batter compare side to side with the 18v XRP pack in size and profile? Its hard to judge by the pics but it looks roughly the same, maybe slightly longer and more square instead on the more rounded off shape of the 18v packs.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

The XRP battery is more compact and flatter (other than that the "tower" connection part sticking up), where as the 36V is more "boxy" shaped. I'd say the 36V battery is just slightly longer. The lithium battery is bigger in volume. It weighs the same as the XRP. The 36V slides on unlike the XRP battery which sticks into the tool. It slides on, and clicks in. Then to release it, there's a pull-down latch. When you pull the latch, the battery ejects slightly because it's spring-loaded.

The batteries seem pretty rugged too, I've already dropped them onto a hard surface and other than a couple of cosmetic dings they work fine and still latch in perfectly. I think with the extra volume and plastic housing of the battery it feels like it would have more of a cushion if you drop it.

[Scott K]

LOL no, it's not a DeWobble this time. The chuck is straight. I can't believe that chuck wobble problem they had on the old XRP series and older drills. It was just embarassing. How on earth could they have let that out the door?

V28 are good tools and it was a tough decision between between that and the 36V. The 7 1/4" blade was one of the selling points though. So I gave DeWalt another chance and it looks like they have a winner this time.

I think the V28 sawzall is as powerful as the 36V, the specs are pretty much the same.

How do you find the hammerdrill? most reviews seem to say it's pretty powerful.

Sceeter - I haven't had the chance to really put the hammerdrill/driver through it's paces (not the SDS hammer, just the drill that comes with the 28 Volt 4 piece set). I will say this though, it can turn the big bits, I put a 2 9/16's bit on today and did one hole, and it did well. My only conern though, is 600 RPM's for low speed is in my opinion a little fast. IF they geared it more like 400 RPM's, for No.1 speed it would have much more torque, and then keep the high speed right at 1800 RPM's where it currently is. This lower speed would turn the big bits a little slower, but it would be easier on the motor, sort of like having a different rear end is better for towing heavier loads, and you would get much more torque too, so you could turn even larger bits if needed.

The main selling points for me for Milwaukee 28Volt over the 36 volt was

1) The batteries are made by a local company in Vancouver BC
2) The Milwaukee 28 volt platform has a right angle drill
3) Milwaukee reputation
4) The battery indicator on the batteries
5) More than enough power for the things I do as a Plumber - if I was a carpenter then maybe the 36 Volt 7 1/4" circ saw might appeal to me. In fact I contemplated getting the Milwaukee V18 set as well, because that would also suit my needs, but then I thought about getting the 28 volt right angle drill and the SDS hammer drill later on and it would be nice to have the bigger power source in the 28 volts in those tools.
6) I felt there would be no point in getting 18 volt tools if I already had a 14.4 XRP Dewalt drill. If you're gonna take a step, it might as well be a bigger one. I wouldn't have gained much advantage in the drill end of things if I had gone to an 18 volt set. I like the V28 drill because it has the capacity and capability to last through big bits & big hole saws (from what I've heard anyways for the most part, and from the little turn I did today).
7) There was a 20% off all cordless tools at the Local Home Depot last weekend which prompted me to purchase
8) Milwaukee's V28 Sawzall.

From what I've heard, those 24 volt DeWalt XRP tools are one of the most underrated cordless lines in the market despite still being a Ni-Cad. The only thing going against them was a bunch of pansy asses who felt they weighed too much for whatever reason, and the fact they costed a lot, on top of the fact that DeWalt didn't put much in that line other than 3 or 4 tools and in promoting them. For example, look at the comparison to the V28 on the Milwaukee website. The 24 Volt Dewalt Ni-cad drill did 42 - 2 9/16's holes, the V28 Lithium Ion drill did 48 holes with the same bit. Consider that if the Ni-cad had been a 28 volt it might have done the same or very close, number of holes, mind you it does weight a bit more, and it might not get as many charge cycles in, but it did reasonably well.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

My experience was on the DC988s (the 18V hammerdrills). I used a 12V XRP once and it was fine. I think it's their old hammerdrill chuck or perhaps it's connection to the shaft.

Sceeter,

Which models had the worst of that problem? It is insane that DeWalt let them out the door. This must be another case where the Quality Control people were sleeping on the job. :confused:

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Yeah I agree about the gear ratio. 600RPM will be faster for some things, but not necessarily give you the ultra high torque you need for the really really tough applications. The RAD will take care of that which is probably an excellent tool for you anyway because doing plumming you're in between studs and joists.

The gearing is one aspect I like (although didn't quite understand why at first) about the 36V drill. But thee torque in 1st gear is just brutal, so it seems to me that they probably aimed it specifically at turning big bits as opposed to an "in-between" range.

It's kind of too bad about DeWalt 24V yeah. They never really got their just desserts.

It will be a long time before all of the corded guyd out there switch over. Not to mention convincing them, but also to get them to shell out the money at the current prices may not be for everyone until the prices come down. I think the productivity and convenience increase is a good reason to buy them, but tell that to a guy who's been using his Skil for 10 years and still works just fine. I think though if they were to use the new cordless circs. for one day they'd be at Home Depot buying a set that night. It's just getting over that intial hurdle.

Sceeter - I haven't had the chance to really put the hammerdrill/driver through it's paces (not the SDS hammer, just the drill that comes with the 28 Volt 4 piece set). I will say this though, it can turn the big bits, I put a 2 9/16's bit on today and did one hole, and it did well. My only conern though, is 600 RPM's for low speed is in my opinion a little fast. IF they geared it more like 400 RPM's, for No.1 speed it would have much more torque, and then keep the high speed right at 1800 RPM's where it currently is. This lower speed would turn the big bits a little slower, but it would be easier on the motor, sort of like having a different rear end is better for towing heavier loads, and you would get much more torque too, so you could turn even larger bits if needed.

The main selling points for me for Milwaukee 28Volt over the 36 volt was

1) The batteries are made by a local company in Vancouver BC
2) The Milwaukee 28 volt platform has a right angle drill
3) Milwaukee reputation
4) The battery indicator on the batteries
5) More than enough power for the things I do as a Plumber - if I was a carpenter then maybe the 36 Volt 7 1/4" circ saw might appeal to me. In fact I contemplated getting the Milwaukee V18 set as well, because that would also suit my needs, but then I thought about getting the 28 volt right angle drill and the SDS hammer drill later on and it would be nice to have the bigger power source in the 28 volts in those tools.
6) I felt there would be no point in getting 18 volt tools if I already had a 14.4 XRP Dewalt drill. If you're gonna take a step, it might as well be a bigger one. I wouldn't have gained much advantage in the drill end of things if I had gone to an 18 volt set. I like the V28 drill because it has the capacity and capability to last through big bits & big hole saws (from what I've heard anyways for the most part, and from the little turn I did today).
7) There was a 20% off all cordless tools at the Local Home Depot last weekend which prompted me to purchase
8) Milwaukee's V28 Sawzall.

From what I've heard, those 24 volt DeWalt XRP tools are one of the most underrated cordless lines in the market despite still being a Ni-Cad. The only thing going against them was a bunch of pansy asses who felt they weighed too much for whatever reason, and the fact they costed a lot, on top of the fact that DeWalt didn't put much in that line other than 3 or 4 tools and in promoting them. For example, look at the comparison to the V28 on the Milwaukee website. The 24 Volt Dewalt Ni-cad drill did 42 - 2 9/16's holes, the V28 Lithium Ion drill did 48 holes with the same bit. Consider that if the Ni-cad had been a 28 volt it might have done the same or very close, number of holes, mind you it does weight a bit more, and it might not get as many charge cycles in, but it did reasonably well.

[Dawg]

i think Milkwaukee just delivered what you were looking for in regards to lower RPM and higher torque. The RAD (V28) in lower in rated at 400 RPS and 1081 in lbs. of torque. Compared to DeWalt's 400 RPM and Does anyone know what the ^$&*@&$# a "Unts Watts Out" is? Is this something that DeWalt invented? Why? I also just notice that DeWalt only has 2.0 amp hrs of run time in their Li-Ion batteries.

[Woussko]

A Watt is a unit of energy as I bet you already know. In the case of "Watts Output" try to think of the drill connected up to a 100% efficent generator. It would be the max amount of power produced with the drill spinning it. In some other parts of the world rather than using horse power they use Watts. Going from electrical energy to motion there are 746 Watts per horse power (text book). I'm not sure of the formula for motion to Watts. Try looking in a technical book if you need to know. The problem is that with a power tool this is measured under ideal lab conditions which are not like out in the field drilling holes. What's needed is a true power output graph. X would be torque and Y would be RPM. I assure you that you won't end up with a straight line.

[Velosapien]

i think Milkwaukee just delivered what you were looking for in regards to lower RPM and higher torque. The RAD (V28) in lower in rated at 400 RPS and 1081 in lbs. of torque. Compared to DeWalt's 400 RPM and Does anyone know what the ^$&*@&$# a "Unts Watts Out" is? Is this something that DeWalt invented? Why? I also just notice that DeWalt only has 2.0 amp hrs of run time in their Li-Ion batteries.



http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article_cordless.asp?Site=cordless&ID=1487
Thats their explanation. I believe its common for this being the standard way to measure them in europe. As mentioned a continuos graph would truly be the ideal way but for now its better than torque ratings which are worthless. All they do is tell at what point the drill will stall in the lowest gear.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

No, Watts or the UWO measurement is not something DeWalt "invented". Torque ratings are not even the slightest bit useful - they're typically the peak torque measured as the drill is stalled on a torque wrench i.e. the drill is chucked on to the torque wrench and the trigger is pulled full blast. The torque will peak at a maximum very briefly and almost immediately drop down due to the intense heating of the motor and battery. Typically, the torque will drop down to a continuous sustained amount that is significantly lower than the peak torque.

All this peak torque measurement does is allow the manufacturer to print the largest torque number without technically "lying"... per se. But because this peak torque only happens within a very short blip of time, it really bares little representation of how the drill works a continuous task.

That being said, DeWalt's stab at this UWO rating seems to be a generally good concept, because it should give you a better idea of how the tool performs in the real world. If every manufacturer used a standard rating scheme that better represents real tool performance, it would be much easier for the end user to find the tool with the power that they need.

[Scott K]

How does Unit WAtts out = a better representation?

I always thought electric/battery powered motors had their peak torque from 0 RPM's all the way to, say 1000-1500 RPM's. And after that torque dropped off.

What I'd be interested in, are the gear ratio's of the gears/transmissions found in drills.

[Woussko]

Scott

You need to contact a senior tech working in tech support at the factory. The right person there should have the loads of testing info on file.

All of this makes me wish I knew someone with a small PRONY BRAKE (name of inventor) . They required a skilled operator of which I am not. They are great for loading and measuring torque and RPM. Then using the right math formulas you can obtain HP. Next to make a graph with about 10 points on it and then use a "French Curve" (drawing tool) to connect the dots. Power tools companies need to quit the marketing hype and post a true power curve. Most serious engine manufactures post such along with a torque curve. That's the way to compare A with B and really know the difference. I think when it comes too drills they are scared to publish such info.

Now the more simple and lower cost way is to get several drills and several new bits in the same sizes and brand. Next you find lots of the same material and in different types and run side by side drilling tests. I'm sure you get my thoughts here. Real life testing under real life conditions. Now just get me my money tree so I can buy loads of different drills and bits along with stuff to drill loads of holes in. The fun starts. :) Anyone want to help drill loads of holes? :cool:

[Woussko]

http://www.robinamerica.com/engines/curves.lasso?mdl=EH36&fig=eh36_crv.gif

This will take you to a power and torque graph for a small gasoline engine made by Subaru - Robin. This is what we want is for power tool companies to publish for their tools. Please remember that engines have a limited running speed range.

If interested click the link under it which will give you more info to read about.

[Disaster]

http://www.robinamerica.com/engines/curves.lasso?mdl=EH36&fig=eh36_crv.gif

This will take you to a power and torque graph for a small gasoline engine made by Subaru - Robin. This is what we want is for power tool companies to publish for their tools. Please remember that engines have a limited running speed range.

If interested click the link under it which will give you more info to read about.

Electric engines can actually produce their max torque at 0 rpm (stall)...gas engines can not. However, these very high torques come at a price of very high current and heat to the motor. Without stall protection, you can burn up an electric motor quickly. This was an issue Consumer Reports exposed with the Milwaukee 28V LiIon drill.

These high stall torques can also be safety issues...this is where people usually break their wrists when the tool digs in, and yanks itself free and around....not to mention what can happen to the thing you are working on.

It would be nice to know the max. torque that an electric drill can handle without meltdown or clutch damage (another problem at high stall torques.) It would also be nice to know that a drill had stall protection that would prevent motor, clutch damage...or wrist damage.

It would also be nice to know the efficiency of the motor. This can be measured in work done per battery power. Based on the bearings and motor technology, there can be a big difference in efficiency. A high wind motor, will have less torque, weigh more, handle less max. current, but be more efficient. Motors will be more efficient at one speed...than another....which could lead to a different optimization for drilling or driving. A brushless motor is considerably more efficient and will not lose power with age like a brushed motor (don't know anyone who uses brushless for power tools though.) Brushed tools can vary the motor "advance" to offer more efficiency in forward than reverse. If I recall, brushless motors can actually vary the advance by speed and direction...which helps with their efficiency.

There is a lot more to motor technology than many people realize. It would be nice to see some advances there...as opposed to just a race for the biggest battery.

[Woussko]

True about that electric motors and especially brush types have max torque right as they stall out. With an engine other than double acting steam engines, that there is a torque rise from idle speed up to a given RPM and then a fall off.

As for overload protection for a portable power tool some do have it, but very few that I have seen. It would be a good idea to include such, but then the tools would cost a bit more to make.

If any of you really want to find out about electric motors you might try contacting NEMA www.nema.org and and ask what publications they have which you can purchase. Another place for info is Power Tools Institute, Inc. http://www.powertoolinstitute.com They are big into safety but should have other info and some good reading for all power tool users.

I think all of us need to remember that because of stockholders demanding profits that most manufactures are really into making big $$$ and not posting loads of info that the DIYer would know little about. I did read about a drill one time that has a flashing light overload indicator. A few drills and angle grinders have slip clutches but they are more for user protection than to protect the tool for being run overloaded.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Because peak torque only gives you the extrapolated performance of the motor, again, not what the motor does under continuous loading conditions.

Peak torque is at 0 RPM, maximum power output (i.e. this "UWO" is around the half "no-load" RPM. So if your tool does 600 RPM full blast with no load, the maximum power output occurs when you load the drill down (with trigger fully depressed) to 300RPM.

True it would ultimately be better if they put out the whole speed-torque performance graph for the tool, but they also can't be too confusing or else people won't get it at all. Having one blanket number/rating that describes whether a tool is a completely better performer than another is impossible. But if you find the type of measurement that best represents most applications, then that's probably the better way to go.

How does Unit WAtts out = a better representation?

I always thought electric/battery powered motors had their peak torque from 0 RPM's all the way to, say 1000-1500 RPM's. And after that torque dropped off.

What I'd be interested in, are the gear ratio's of the gears/transmissions found in drills.

[Velosapien]

http://www.dewalt.com/us/cordless/powerrating/?p=5
Here's some more info. I know its dewalts site but their explanation is accurate.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

I was surprised that DeWalt came out with that article because it's quite technically correct in the priciples they're explaining. I can't vouch for their measurements of other companies drill power comparisons, because I don't have the means to verify them, but the measurements seem reasonable.