Consumer Reports Cordless Drills report.

[Disaster]

As usual, there report is a mix of good and bad.

Some of the good.

They expose the problems, hype and other interesting tidbits.

Examples....

Hitachi DS18DMR sold at "hardware store" came with 3AmpHr battery. The one sold at Lowes, for $25 less only had a 2AmpHr battery. I've heard about these kind of things going on with the likes of Lowes, Walmart and other big chains for quite some time and it would be nice if more people knew about them. The big chain stores push the companies to offer a product cheaper to them so they pull a feature or build with lower quality parts to meet the demand. The average Joe would have no idea they were getting a lesser product.

Milwaukee 28V overheated and damaged motor when driving lag screws. This happened with last years and this years samples...which doesn't bode well for expecting a fix for this problem.

Mansfield "Dual-drill" sold on infomercials was a pretty poor drill.

$40-$60 dollar drills did not fair well on power or runtime.

Some lower voltage drills outperformed higher voltage models. For example the Ridgid 14.4V R83015 outperformed the 18V R84001.

The bad.

They mention Ridgid R851150 for consideration when shopping for "mega-volt" drills...but it isn't shown on the ratings page...in fact, none of the plus 20V drills are shown on the ratings page though they obviously tested them. How do they stack up to each other???

They group NiMh and LiIon together as the "high-efficiency batteries." NiMh are much closer to NiCd's than LiIon. NiMh may have a 5% advantage in weight where LiIon has a 50% advantage.

The curious and surprising.

Curious about the 14.4V Ridgid outperforming the 18V. I have the 18V R841150 that comes with the combo set and it weighs about 7.5lbs...and that is with the 1.9AmpHr battery...not the new 2.5AmpHr one. The one they tested, the R84001, weighed 6.6lbs according to them. Based on Ridgid's website, it looks to have a considerably smaller battery.
http://www.ridgid.com/MenuDriver.asp?ParentID=18-Volt-Cordless-12-Drill-Kit
The 14.4V has the 2.5AmpHr battery according to the Ridgid website.
http://www.ridgid.com/MenuDriver.asp?ParentID=X2-14.4-Volt-Cordless-12-Drill
The previous 18V Ridgid tested (R84015) considerably outperformed the previous 14.4V (R83001.)

The Ryobi P811 dropped to 28th place compared to the Ryobi P801...and lost it's "Quick Pick" status. It is hard to compare their ratings since they don't give an exact number in the Dec. 05 piece but it looks to be about 1/3rd of the way into the "Very Good" rating then and in the high end of the "Good" rating now. Question whether it got worse or the rest of the pack got better...raising the bar...so to speak.

A Craftsman (19.2V 11541) actually made it into 15th place...above all the Ridgids and a couple DeWalts, a Hitachi and a Milwaukee.

[Sceeter W Wheels]

Wow, isn't that something about the V28... I remember that back on the MET Tool Talk board and it was said that they had fixed that overheating problem, but maybe it's not necessarily fixed afterall.

[Velosapien]

So what did they choose as the best overall?

[Disaster]

Only this year some of them got moved to the "Li-Ion and MiMh Cell category."

The top finishers were.

1. 18V Hitachi DS18DMR
2. 18V Makita LXT BDF451 (new this year)
3. 15.6V Panasonic EY6432GQKW
4. 18V Panasonic EY6450GQKW
5. 18V Milwaukee 6347DWDE (new this year)

I'm not sure what to think of the Hitachi. I've handled them and thought they were good feeling, well performing drills...great values. They have HUGE 3AmpHr batteries. However, found many reports of them splitting in half...one report of this happening when an operator dropped the drill only 4 feet. That is way too fragile for a tool.

Haven't handled the Makita or Milwaukee.

The 15.6V and 12V Panasonics are, IMHO, the ultimate workhorse cordless drills. They were the first to bring, power (constant torque through the battery life), reliability and portability to the cordless drill field. No one has ever packed so much power in such a compact package. I know people who've had theirs for years....used daily...and not ever heard of anyone having a problem with one. Bosch followed with a couple lightweight models but they don't quite match the Panasonics in performance.

[Scott K]

Wow, isn't that something about the V28... I remember that back on the MET Tool Talk board and it was said that they had fixed that overheating problem, but maybe it's not necessarily fixed afterall.

Sceeter - it said "samples" - I'm pretty sure they fixed the problem. They said on the MET tool board that they had issues with them because there was the wrong part in them. When they removed it and put the right part in the problem was fixed. This was in the initial small batch of very early drills.

[Velosapien]

Cool, I've never tried the Hitachi or Panasonic but seem to always see good reviews of them. I have the new Makita and absolutely love it. Great weight feel and power. My only complain is that they made is so overergonomic (if thats even a word) the handle actually doesn't feel all that comfortable, too much rubber, curves and texturing.

[Woussko]

V

If you mean the side handle, you might try getting one for an older similar Makita drill. As long as the threads match it should work for you. You might check other brands too.

[Velosapien]

Sorry I meant the grip, not the handle. Its really a very minor complaint but I really wish they had used a clean smooth and straighter design like the dewalt.

[Disaster]

Here are an example of three reports about Hitachi drills on Amazon that make me nervous.

1 Star:
"as a carpenter I need a good reliable cordless to use day in day out, after 18 months I can report that this drill isn't up to the task, I'm sorry but it's just not. Great power...... really good power, but the fact is for the first 12 months I owned it it spent 25% of it time back at the shop, items including new gear box, selector, switch (twice) and battery. I went out and bought a little 12V maktec cordless to use while it was in the shop and use this now more than the Hitachi. the low gear has gone on it once again and the Batterys are on the way out ...... I can't justify spending more money on it, (throwing good after bad). Great power, just bad build quality and service back up"

3 stars:
"I got this drill in the 4-piece set, it works pretty good. Batteries don't hold up as well as DeWalt, when they start going, they're just dead. I dropped my drill about 4 feet and it broke in 2 pieces, drill still works great, but has no handle. I had to use a panduit strap to hold it together. I've talked to the good people at Lowe's about getting it repaired under warranty, because this is obviously a defect and it was only a month old, but they suggested I just buy a new one because Hitachi will refuse the repair, and to "be careful and not drop it"."

4 stars:
"My main concern about these Hitachi drills is the strength of the drill's plastic casing. I've watched two of these drills fall off of roofs...the first one fell about 15 feet, and landed on a plywood floor...it broke where the handle meets the rest of the drill, and is now quite unusable. The other fell about 12 feet onto the ground, and cracked in the same place. It survived, but I don't expect it to last much longer before the crack gets bigger, and the handle breaks off."

[CheekyMonkeyWrench]

I drilled about 2 dozen 5/8 3-5" lag screws last weekend with no problems whatsoever. The V28 drill never seems to amaze me, it was easy as pie.

[dsydorko]

Keep in mind that the reviews you are mentioning were on their mid-range product. Hitachi also makes a pro line of cordless drills, the prices take quite a jump so if all is well in the world so would the specs and quality.

[Disaster]

Keep in mind that the reviews you are mentioning were on their mid-range product. Hitachi also makes a pro line of cordless drills, the prices take quite a jump so if all is well in the world so would the specs and quality.

I found reports of breaking when dropped of the exact same model Consumers Reports tested. This is Hitachis highest end model drill.

[Disaster]

Sceeter - it said "samples" - I'm pretty sure they fixed the problem. They said on the MET tool board that they had issues with them because there was the wrong part in them. When they removed it and put the right part in the problem was fixed. This was in the initial small batch of very early drills.

1. Consumer Reports doesn't get products from manufacturers because they don't want to get "ringers." They buy them in stores like you and me. Perhaps they got unlucky and got two from the same bad batch. Still bothers me because it means bad product is still out there on store shelves.

2. Consumers Reports may be pushing the tools harder than the average consumer would. For example they may be running in lag bolt after lag bolt with only pauses to switch to the new bolt. Most people would go slower than that...driving only a few at a time...then setting up for more.

[Disaster]

I drilled about 2 dozen 5/8 3-5" lag screws last weekend with no problems whatsoever. The V28 drill never seems to amaze me, it was easy as pie.

Perhaps they are running in lag bolt after lag bolt in their tests...not giving the drill time to cool. In real situations, you would probably pause between bolts...or at least every few bolts to set up.

[dsydorko]

I found reports of breaking when dropped of the exact same model Consumers Reports tested. This is Hitachis highest end model drill.

okay I see one on that model mentioning 12 - 15ft drops, one on a plywood floor one from a roof I think, but the model that was getting comments about breaking on a 4 foot drop was the lower end consumer grade model. 12 - 15 foot drops are really putting the casing to the extreme test, though, even if it isn't onto concrete. I'm not defending Hitachi, I don't own one, love my ridgid impact driver, just thought I had seen the same reviews you alluded to in previous post and they were on a different model than the one tested/rated by consumer reports.

[CheekyMonkeyWrench]

I just checked the online test results (as i have a subscription) and they failed to test any Li drill/drivers. Is the test you're referencing in the latest newstand copy?

Hitachi has revamped their line since the test I looked at, as they have Li drills, etc. at the top end of their line.

This is the same independent consumer advocate that claims Behr paint is the best on the market, even though it has the viscosity of beer.

[Disaster]

okay I see one on that model mentioning 12 - 15ft drops, one on a plywood floor one from a roof I think, but the model that was getting comments about breaking on a 4 foot drop was the lower end consumer grade model. 12 - 15 foot drops are really putting the casing to the extreme test, though, even if it isn't onto concrete. I'm not defending Hitachi, I don't own one, love my ridgid impact driver, just thought I had seen the same reviews you alluded to in previous post and they were on a different model than the one tested/rated by consumer reports.

Good point...hopefully the "professional" models would handle a 4 foot drop. Having said that, surviving a 15 or 20 foot drop is especially encouraging...especially for a fumble-fingers like myself. If you check the Panasonic reviews they are chuck full of accounts like that. That is why I refer to them as "workhorses." Also, the Hitachi drill with all the clutch and switch failures was also the higher end model.

A Panasonic excerpt.

"I am a remodeling contractor and beat the hell out of this thing. It's dropped from ladders plenty of times onto asphalt, concrete, dirt, etc...."

Similarly..and I'm too lazy to dig it up now, I found reports of people dropping Ridgids off rooftops...picking them up...and going right back to work.

For me, the question isn't WILL I drop it...but WHEN will I drop it...and will it survive the fall.

[Disaster]

I just checked the online test results (as i have a subscription) and they failed to test any Li drill/drivers. Is the test you're referencing in the latest newstand copy?

Hitachi has revamped their line since the test I looked at, as they have Li drills, etc. at the top end of their line.

The drill/driver review is in the December 2006 newstand/subscription copy. The previous test was in the December 2005 copy. As I mentioned, there are only sidebars about testing the "high-voltage" drills. They don't include them in the drill ratings section.

Some excerpts...

"...these drills are very pricey and weigh roughly 7 pounds. Performance of some drills in our tests was a letdown...."

"DeWalts 36-Volt...run.s 50% longer than our average 18-volt...."

"Ridgid's 24-volt....gives up some run time to DeWalt (36volt) yet it belts out as much torque as some impact drivers....."

"B&D Firestorm...clutch was damaged during our maximum-torque test....NiCd battery...delivered less than 1/3rd of DeWalt and Ridgid run time."

"An earlier versiion of Milwaukee's....28v...suffered overheating and motor damage last year.....We retested it after the company made design changes. Result: This year's sample also overheated in the same test."

"Consider the DeWalt or Ridgid...."

[dsydorko]

For me, the question isn't WILL I drop it...but WHEN will I drop it...and will it survive the fall.


I'm with you there, brother!
I'm the clumsiest guy I know. I have this 8 year old Ryobi 12V that i dropped off a 6 ft ladder onto my concrete basement floor and it was no worse for wear- I have to say that impressed me. Since I traded in my 12V Ridgid drill for a 14.4V impact driver, I've had the itch to buy another drill... and although it would make more sense to buy a Ridgid 14.4V for the batteries (since the cheap buggers from Ridgid had the nerve to include only one battery with the impact driver), after reading about the consumer reports here in the forum I am awful tempted to jump all over the panasonic 15.6V... I looked on ebay and it drives me nuts when all these sellers break up the kits and sell everything piece meal...by the time you pay shipping on 5 items it's no cheaper than picking one up at a store- no waiting, no potential for shipping problems, can always return it if you get a lemon or aren't happy with it. Some guy on ebay was selling a like new panny 15.6 complete kit for $189 buy it now and it didn't look new factory fresh to me. Looked like a return or a demo or something. Then I saw that you can buy them brand new any day of the week from the Tool Barn for the same darn price. A bit of a rant I know, but still related to the consumer reports thing...:)

[Disaster]

..........selling a like new panny 15.6 complete kit for $189 buy it now and it didn't look new factory fresh to me. Looked like a return or a demo or something. Then I saw that you can buy them brand new any day of the week from the Tool Barn for the same darn price..........

I think $10 more for the 3.5AmpHr battery kit is an even better deal.

[dsydorko]

I think $10 more for the 3.5AmpHr battery kit is an even better deal.

Yeah, I thought about that too, but the 3 Ah model was nearly 1/2 lb lighter, same torque, and looks like it had a few extra features. Or maybe the two models are identical other than the battery. I'm far from being a professional user so I thought the lighter model would be good enough for a tinkerer like me. Honestly I'd buy another Ridgid, but I like a smaller lighter drill that's easier to handle. I was really liking the price and feel of the Makita 6280 14.4V but a bit concerned about the power and battery life (177 ft lbs and 1.3Ah). The X2 Ridgids are heavy. And the Canadian Home Depots don't seem to carry the regular R83001 14.4V at all (so I can have an extra battery to share with the impact gun). I see that Cummins has factory reconditioned 12V (R82001) for $59. It's really tempting for me to get a buddy in the US to buy one for me and send it over here. Won't help the Impact battery situation but at least I can use the same charger for both. Sure like to have that Panasonic though, I've never owned the best before but lately I've been developing a better understanding of that old saying- I'm not so rich that I can afford to buy cheap stuff. Let's just say the story involves a $30 18V el cheapo drill and a bit of embarassment/tool envy at a crating job a while back

[Disaster]

Yeah, I thought about that too, but the 3 Ah model was nearly 1/2 lb lighter, same torque, and looks like it had a few extra features. Or maybe the two models are identical other than the battery. I'm far from being a professional user so I thought the lighter model would be good enough for a tinkerer like me. Honestly I'd buy another Ridgid, but I like a smaller lighter drill that's easier to handle. I was really liking the price and feel of the Makita 6280 14.4V but a bit concerned about the power and battery life (177 ft lbs and 1.3Ah). The X2 Ridgids are heavy. And the Canadian Home Depots don't seem to carry the regular R83001 14.4V at all (so I can have an extra battery to share with the impact gun). I see that Cummins has factory reconditioned 12V (R82001) for $59. It's really tempting for me to get a buddy in the US to buy one for me and send it over here. Won't help the Impact battery situation but at least I can use the same charger for both. Sure like to have that Panasonic though, I've never owned the best before but lately I've been developing a better understanding of that old saying- I'm not so rich that I can afford to buy cheap stuff. Let's just say the story involves a $30 18V el cheapo drill and a bit of embarassment/tool envy at a crating job a while back

Maybe I'm getting sucked into the "bigger is better" philosophy...which is how I ended up with the 7 and 1/2 pound, 18V Ridgid in the first place.. 3AmpHr is still over 30% better than my current 18V Ridgid which has a 1.9AmpHr battery. Just missed picking up a 2.5AmpHr battery for the 18V on Ebay. A guy was selling three of them for $25 a piece but I was too slow and he sold out. The next best price was over $50.

I stumbled onto someone selling the R83001 (14.4V 5lb Ridgid) for $35 dollars. I was thinking of grabbing it as a lighter drill to use in my kit. However, it isn't that light. In fact, in several reviews they commented that it was heavy for a 14.4V drill. Still, it is 2 and 1/2 pounds lighter than the 18V model.

I guess there are two reasons I'm looking at the Panasonics. 1. For the lighter weight. 2. For the better batteries with less chance of memory effects.

After doing some research I decided to keep my NiCds in the refrigerator. This considerably lowers the self-discharge rate and is supposed to reduce the memory effect (which is caused by crystal formation in the cells.)

By the way, thanks for the "Tool Barn" reference. I had forgot about that store.

[dsydorko]

I was thinking of grabbing it as a lighter drill to use in my kit. However, it isn't that light. In fact, in several reviews they commented that it was heavy for a 14.4V drill.
I guess there are two reasons I'm looking at the Panasonics. 1. For the lighter weight. 2. For the better batteries with less chance of memory effects.


pardon the feeble attempt at humor, subject line is a kick at the "bigger is better" comment. For my level of use I'm leaning toward the little Makita- it's a bit of a whimp but under 4 lbs and I do have the impact driver when i need more punch- it can nearly do anything the drill/driver can (albeit noisier). The 14.4V NiCd 3/8" Makita kit is CA$128 and by the time I get that awesome Panasonic shipped up here it would be around double that in Canuck bucks.
And as for the backup battery for the impact gun I can't find any Ridgid batteries at all at any of the HDs up here- not sure whats up with that...I missed some on ebay too. I'm thinking I'll buy the max battery as the backup for the impact driver even though it doesn't fit in the case. I've been keeping a bit kit where the spare battery goes anyway. I'm still so burned by the one battery thing... the Dewalt would have been cheaper in the long run $50 more but 2 batteries. When the regular (non max) 12 & 14.4 volt ridgid batteries have been known to drain rather quickly one battery just isn't enough, even WITH a 20 min charger.

[Disaster]

That little 3.5lb 18V Makita is sweet....the 1.5AmpHr battery is really wimpy though. I'm leaning toward one of the 15.6V panasonics, even the 3.5AmpHr one is only 4.8lbs....which is about 3 pounds lighter than the Ridgid. The 3.0AmpHr drops the weight to 4.4lbs....not sure another .4lbs is going to make too much of a difference after saving 3. Wish Panasonic would come out with a Lithium Ion model.

[dsydorko]

The one i was considering was the model 6280 14.4V with only 1.3Ah batteries and 177 in/lbs of torque...even wimpier than the one you're talking about, but I read some bad reviews about the chuck grip and battery life and after looking at specs and trying a display model at the local hardware store I'm put off that one for now. It has the 2 sleeve chuck and when the drill stops with an empty chuck the front sleeve kept spinning. The store clerk said that's cuz its empty but after reading the reviews I have to wonder if it does have grip problems. I prefer a single sleeve ratcheting style. The 18V version of that drill here in Canada is getting pricey enough that you may as well go with a higher end model or brand. The local hardware store just put out a flyer advertising the new 14.4V Makita Lithiums- they have a 1/2" drill and impact driver kit with a light and bag thrown in for CA$399 (about US$350). I'm really tempted to return the Ridgid 14.4V impact and get this kit- these are 3 Ah batteries and have the Makita lithiums have had mostly great reviews. The drill has replaceable motor brushes, LED light, and its- get this- 7-3/8" long and 3.5 lbs. The impact driver is only 3.1 lbs!!! Just hard to justify the cost when once i finish developing my basement and fixing my deck i'll probably pull out either one of the tools once every 6 months or so....hehe. For you maybe those Panasonics are the way to go. I like the solid feel of the Ridgids but I see them as competing head on with Dewalt and its all okay if you're in construction or some other pro user, but they are heavy- the specs say even the 14.4V X2 is like 6.9 lbs. unless you have/want forearms like popeye, and with all the lithiums and other powerful yet light and compact models like the ones from Panasonic or maybe even Hitachi, one has to wonder if they are losing much by going lightweight.

[dsydorko]

For those of you who haven't seen this already:
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_and_home/cordless-drill-reviews/fullstory.html
Some interesting info, insights and assessments for free there- no membership or subscription required.

[Bob D.]

Don't get confused and think this site is part of Consumers Union, publisher of Consumer Reports magazine. They are not related in any way that I can see.

For those of you who haven't seen this already:
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_and_home/cordless-drill-reviews/fullstory.html
Some interesting info, insights and assessments for free there- no membership or subscription required.

[Disaster]

For those of you who haven't seen this already:
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_and_home/cordless-drill-reviews/fullstory.html
Some interesting info, insights and assessments for free there- no membership or subscription required.

Interesting...a review website that doesn't actually review anything...just researches reviews. I find it curiously lacking in breadth of research (many brands missing) and suspiciously recommending brands based on limited reviews or information (like the Panasonic dual impact driver/drill.)

An interesting site to visit and gather information...but not the best for recommending a choice.

[Disaster]

Swung by Sears and checked out the 19.2V tools that contain the drill that reviewed better than the Ridgid...in fact was a best buy.

I also have the Ryobi OnePlus 18V set and this set is very similar...but with some improvements.

I had a hard time finding the battery size...in Amp Hours in any literature. Did stumble onto this review that claims it to be 1.3AmpHrs....20% less than OnePlus and 30% less than Ridgid MaxHC.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Power+Tool+Accessories&pid=00911376000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Cordless+Tools%2C+Batteries%2C+and+Chargers&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

Overall, found a lot of poor reviews on runtime, but then the Craftsman drill beat the Ryobi 18V and the Ridgid 18V in runtime in Consumer Reports tests. I'm curious if the standalone Ridgid drill, that they bought, has a lower sized battery. It doesn't say MaxHC on the Ridgid website.

Other than that, here are some of the other differences vs. OnePlus.

1. While the saw with the kits uses a 5.25" blade...like Ryobi, they sell a full 7.25" version alone.

2. Trimmer router came with nicer base and hand grip.

3. Spiral saw, likewise came with nice handle attachment...similar to a Rotozip.

4. Drill had neat little LED light to light up worksite. Not real bright...but better than nothing. Reciprocating saw had similar light.

5. Fluorescent light was only $15 bucks. I want one!

5. 19.2V impact was curiously rated lower in torque then Ryobi's 18V.....900 in.lb vs. 1,200 in.lb if I recall.

6. You could actually dissassemble the vacuum to clean it. Doesn't look like stuff will get trapped in it like it does in the Ryobi.

7. Lasertrac light on Jigsaw.

8. Cordless nailer...but no stapler. Where Ryobi got rid of the combo stapler/nailer for just a stapler. Nailer felt heavier than older Ryobi combo. Salesman told me it didn't work very well....had to have full battery and hold very tight to work surface...sounds just like Ryobi.

[dsydorko]

Interesting...a review website that doesn't actually review anything...just researches reviews. I find it curiously lacking in breadth of research (many brands missing) and suspiciously recommending brands based on limited reviews or information (like the Panasonic dual impact driver/drill.)

An interesting site to visit and gather information...but not the best for recommending a choice.

I wasn't thinking this was affiliated with consumer reports. I was merely offering the link as a resource that sure the heck beats Amazon.com as a way of researching some of the cordless drills and drivers out there. I bought a Consumers Reports magazine once a year or two ago. It was actually like a shrunken down magazine- more like a booklet. Not sure who published it but it did say Consumer Reports. It was the biggest waste of $24 I've ever encountered. It was mainly geared towards automobiles but advertised other categories such as appliances and electronics. The automobile categories were ok- with those 5 circles representing certain categories that are filled in differently or left empty to represent the ranking. But for the other product categories this book was worthless- they just gave a description of some of the general features and then ranked the five highest rated brands and thats about it.
If a website gathered organized and analyzed a large number of the various pro or semi-pro reviews and tests, along with a lot of useful information, and without charging you anything, how can that be bad? This link I provided was informative for me, because every brand of drill or driver I considered buying, i would google and just come up with the typical amazon reviews and epinions etc. These reviews, unless in large numbers, are not really reliable. Often biased or even misguided opinions- can be just rants of someone who got a lemon, or someone who just spent their money and wants to tell the world how much they love their new purchase. I'm real reluctant to pay a subscription fee for the consumer reports site since I really don't know how much I'll get out of it over time. I have not found anything else like this online for free, even the toolbarn blog is at least as useful as amazon.com or consumer reports reviews that we can't see unless we pay to become a member.
Jeez, tough crowd.

[Disaster]

Took some digging but finally found exact number on Sears website. Craftsman 19.2V's are rated at 1.4AmpHr.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Portable+Power+Tools&pid=00911542000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Drills&BV_SessionID=@@@@1580027523.1163556156@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccgjaddjgiiifekcefecemldffidfno.0

Also, was looking at the tools some more and noted reciprocating saw had adjustable foot...by allen head that attaches to tool. Not much range...but adjustable.

Surprising to see 1.4AmpHr Craftsman beating 1.7AmpHr Ryobi 18V OnePlus. I'm assuming only reason it beat Ridgid is because Consumer Reports tested drill with standard battery...not sure rating...instead of newer drill that comes in kit with 1.9AmpHr MaxHC or even newer with 2.5AmpHr.

[Disaster]

...I was merely offering the link as a resource that sure the heck beats Amazon.com as a way of researching some of the cordless drills and drivers out there. I bought a Consumers Reports magazine once a year or two ago. It was actually like a shrunken down magazine- more like a booklet. ...I have not found anything else like this online for free, even the toolbarn blog is at least as useful as amazon.com or consumer reports reviews that we can't see unless we pay to become a member.
Jeez, tough crowd.

I agree that it is another helpful resource. My point was that it wasn't a very definitive one...kind of meandered all over.

I agree that Consumer Reports is really a dissapointment in journalism. They describe some ratings...while glazing over others. For example all you get for "runtime" is "work per time." HUH!?!? At what load..What work...? "Power" is
twisting force for tightening and loosening." Huh again! At what speed...stall??? They mention testing some drills that never show in their ratings. They mention weight and volts but don't check out AmpHrs in the batteries...which is easy to measure with the right equipment. I've noticed their reviews are getting sparcer and sparcer. They often mention more info being available on the web to bait you into paying for a web subscription on top of the newstand one.

How about real power numbers. How about real torque at speed numbers.

While I appreciate the work that Consumer Reports does, and I have learned from them...and continue to subscribe, I wish they weren't the only game in town for non-biased reviewing.

[Velosapien]

Took some digging but finally found exact number on Sears website. Craftsman 19.2V's are rated at 1.4AmpHr.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Portable+Power+Tools&pid=00911542000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Drills&BV_SessionID=@@@@1580027523.1163556156@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccgjaddjgiiifekcefecemldffidfno.0

Also, was looking at the tools some more and noted reciprocating saw had adjustable foot...by allen head that attaches to tool. Not much range...but adjustable.

Surprising to see 1.4AmpHr Craftsman beating 1.7AmpHr Ryobi 18V OnePlus. I'm assuming only reason it beat Ridgid is because Consumer Reports tested drill with standard battery...not sure rating...instead of newer drill that comes in kit with 1.9AmpHr MaxHC or even newer with 2.5AmpHr.


Don't mind a batteries amp-hour rating too much. It's not a reliable comparison figure between different tools. A-h. ratings are not even always measured the same between manufacturers. It's usually a good guide line to know where a product stands in a manufacturers line-up but thats about it. It also carries no significant relevance to the actual endurance of a tool because the motor and mechanism efficiency is what really dictates how fast the battery will be drained. The quality of the cells used also matters. Cells rated at the same rating will not always charge as well, etc. Its completely possible for a tool with a much lower ah rated battery to outperform another with a higher rating. The entire package needs to be tested.

[Disaster]

Don't mind a batteries amp-hour rating too much. It's not a reliable comparison figure between different tools. A-h. ratings are not even always measured the same between manufacturers. It's usually a good guide line to know where a product stands in a manufacturers line-up but thats about it. It also carries no significant relevance to the actual endurance of a tool because the motor and mechanism efficiency is what really dictates how fast the battery will be drained. The quality of the cells used also matters. Cells rated at the same rating will not always charge as well, etc. Its completely possible for a tool with a much lower ah rated battery to outperform another with a higher rating. The entire package needs to be tested.

AmpHr is one important factor in comparing runtime or potential performance. I wouldn't trust the manufacturers ratings. I would hook a battery up to a power resistor and run a drain test...very easy to do...and very accurate...done all the time in RC racing.

I agree that the whole system should be tested too. Motor and transmission efficiency is a big factor, like you said. I'm dissappointed CR didn't do a little research relative to power ratings. If they had, they could have used the industry UWO rating and test methods perscribed. The UWO test methods are designed to be reliable and repeatable.

Speaking of differences in runtime vs. advertised battery size, it is surprising the 1.8V Ryobi drill with 1.7AmpHr battery performed worse than the 19.2AmpHr Craftsman drill with 1.4AmpHr battery....after all Ryobi made both drills and they most likely have the same motors and transmissions. The Craftsman has 26.9W of total power, while the Ryobi has 30.6W of power in it's battery. Is it possible the motor runs considerably more efficienctly at 19.2V or did Sears specify something that made it's transmission more efficient...better or different bearings?

Or is it a fluke of testing or product variance? Perhaps the Ryobi battery pack wasn't conditioned properly. Maybe it was a poor pack to begin with. Maybe Ryobi overspecifies it's packs, while Sears gives a conservative rating. It was interesting to note that Sears rates the 19.2V Impact wrench to only 900inlb of torque, while Ryobi rates theirs to 1,100inlbs.

[Velosapien]

I'm not sure Ryobi/TTI actually makes the 19.2v craftsman tools. Their 18v tools are in fact just dark gray Ryobi tools but the 19.2v look like they are made by someone else. I had this very handy little list that had they serial number key which could tell you which manufacturer built the tool for craftsman by the first three numbers of the model number. Now if I can just find it again.

[Disaster]

I'm not sure Ryobi/TTI actually makes the 19.2v craftsman tools. Their 18v tools are in fact just dark gray Ryobi tools but the 19.2v look like they are made by someone else. I had this very handy little list that had they serial number key which could tell you which manufacturer built the tool for craftsman by the first three numbers of the model number. Now if I can just find it again.

They were definitely designed by the same team. I have the OnePlus 18V set and have handled the Craftsman at Sears. Some of the tools are near exact duplicates....with just the most minor features added...like LED worklights. Someone mentioned that a 9 before the number designates a Ryobi designed tool at Sears. Probably, it is more correct to say TTI makes the tools (parent company of Ryobi and Ridgid.)

By the way, it is also clear that TTI makes the 20V Lithium line of Craftsman tools. There are several features that are exactly the same (handle on drill for example.) The specs are are a little lower with only 20V and 2.4AmpHr batteries...instead of 24V and 3AmpHr and the price is higher, when you compare the latest Ridgid prices.

I especially like the little fluorescent light that comes with the Craftsman set. It is offered by Ryobi in Europe but for some reason they haven't released it in their US toolset yet. They have a couple other tools that aren't yet offered in the Sears Craftsman C3 set too...like the buffer and fan.

[rocky brown]

fyi- sears is offering a $75 gift card with purchase of the bosch compact tough 14.4 and 18 volt drills. i bought the 14.4 for end cost of $68 + tax. it is sooo much nicer than the ryobi 18 volt that i've been using.

rb

[Velosapien]

http://www.owwm.com/craftsman/Manufacturers.asp The date in the doc is a little old so the latest stuff is probably not in there and they repeat numbers sometimes. The number 900 at least used to be for Dewalt made tools. I have a 15 year old craftsman drill with the 900 code and it is in fact a dewalt drill.

[Disaster]

fyi- sears is offering a $75 gift card with purchase of the bosch compact tough 14.4 and 18 volt drills. i bought the 14.4 for end cost of $68 + tax. it is sooo much nicer than the ryobi 18 volt that i've been using.

rb


That is a good deal. Love the little Bosch "Tough" drills. Can always use the gift card as a present or for a later purchase. Did you see this online or as an instore special?

[Disaster]

That is a good deal. Love the little Bosch "Tough" drills. Can always use the gift card as a present or for a later purchase. Did you see this online or as an instore special?

Stopped by Sears today and found out gift card deal isn't quite so nice. It requires you to buy the drill plus a "power box." The Power box they had above the drill was the Bosch radio and it cost $179!!!! It was also a rebate which required you to send in the receipt and skus from both products.

Details:
"BUY EITHER A BOSCH #25146 18-VOLT OR #27389 14.4-VOLT COMPACT TOUGH CORDLESS DRILL PLUS A#26568 BOSCH POWER BOX AND RECEIVE A $75.00 SEARS GIFT CARD VIA MAIL IN REBATE."

javascript:openRebate('http://www.sears.com/sr/product/rebates/generateRebateForm.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&product_id=00925146000')

If you got a gift card by just buying the drill you got a heck of a deal.

[dsydorko]

Well my brief fling with Ridgid was fun, seemed like great tools but most of the lighter more manageable (not to mention affordable) models of the drills and impacts have a lot of battery run-time issues. And topped off by the lack of availability (Ridgid tools and accessories like batteries) here in Canada I bailed, returned what I had, and bought this set:
http://www.makita.ca/index.cfm?event=tool&id=8
came with a bonus xenon worklight, but a bag instead of the hard case, for CA$399 (about US$350)
I think the 14.4V LXT tools are too new on the North American scene to find many reviews but the 18V LXT's generally get favorable reviews and I found this (few comments about halfway down the page):
http://blogs.toolbarn.com/brianm/archive/2006_08_01_archive.html
I might regret my decision in the long run, but I was tired of not being able to get what I wanted out of Ridgid and the HD stores up here.
I thought I'd save a pile of cash and just get the Ryobi tools- but I just didn't like them, the look, the feel.
I'd really love a Panasonic 15.6V set but hard to find and way too expensive here.
I know I can buy lots of stuff online from the USA, but many of those online retailers won't ship to Canada, I wasn't sure of the warranty implications, and it wouldn't be easy to return or exchange if I got a lemon or changed my mind.
Disaster- I'll keep checking to see what you finally decided to plunk your cash down on!
Ciao!!!

[rocky brown]

the sign at the sears store where i bought the drill didn't say anything about having to buy 2 products. i'll dig up the reciept and rebate paperwork later and post what it says- maybe i didn't get such a good deal after all...


rb

[Disaster]

......bought this set:
http://www.makita.ca/index.cfm?event=tool&id=8
came with a bonus xenon worklight, but a bag instead of the hard case, for CA$399 (about US$350)

That is a sweet little drill and impact gun. 3.5lbs yet 3AmpHr battery. I wonder if the little 14.4V Makita LiIon drill I saw at HD was the same one with a wimpy 1.5AmpHr battery? I also like that it comes with a 1/2 inch chuck which some of the other lighter drills lack. The power/weight/size ratio is better than the Panasonic. I'll keep my eye out for it to arrive around here.

http://www.makita.co.jp/global/product/category/cordless/bdf440/bdf440.html

In the U.S. I can seem to find the older 2.6AmpHr NiMh set for a good price ($217) and the lone impact wrench in LiIon for $299...but not the set like you have.



http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BTD130FB-14-4-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B000GJX9K8/sr=8-45/qid=1163660481/ref=sr_1_45/002-3361665-3319253?ie=UTF8&s=hi

[Disaster]

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-6935FDWDEX-14-4-Volt-Cordless-Fluorescent/dp/B000ASE2YM/sr=8-4/qid=1163660384/ref=sr_1_4/002-3361665-3319253?ie=UTF8&s=hi

[Disaster]

http://www.makita.co.jp/global/product/category/cordless/bdf450/bdf450.html

[Velosapien]

That is a sweet little drill and impact gun. 3.5lbs yet 3AmpHr battery. I wonder if the little 14.4V Makita LiIon drill I saw at HD was the same one with a wimpy 1.5AmpHr battery? I also like that it comes with a 1/2 inch chuck which some of the other lighter drills lack. The power/weight/size ratio is better than the Panasonic. I'll keep my eye out for it to arrive around here.

http://www.makita.co.jp/global/product/category/cordless/bdf440/bdf440.html

In the U.S. I can seem to find the older 2.6AmpHr NiMh set for a good price ($217) and the lone impact wrench in LiIon for $299...but not the set like you have.



http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BTD130FB-14-4-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B000GJX9K8/sr=8-45/qid=1163660481/ref=sr_1_45/002-3361665-3319253?ie=UTF8&s=hi

I just recently got the white makita with the 1.5 ah batteries. It also brings a new rapid charger which makita will be using to replace all the Li-ion/Ni-MH chargers in all their products soon. It charges the 3.0 ah batteries in 22 minutes and the 1.5 ah in 15 minutes. The standard charger does 45/30 min respectively. I bought it mainly to use as a woodworking drill becuase its so small and powerfull where extra long battery life isn't as important. Besides, it charges in 15 minutes so the other battery will be ready long before you need it. It also takes the 3.0ah batteries increasing its weight to 3.9 lbs. Even with the 1.5 ah batteries the battery life is remarkably good. Almost comparable to my NiCD tools. I haven't really given it a hard trial yet but I have yet to run out of charge in the middle of a project.

[Disaster]

I just recently got the white makita with the 1.5 ah batteries......It also takes the 3.0ah batteries increasing its weight to 3.9 lbs.


Interesting...so do you think this is different than the compact one they sell in Canada and the UK that is advertised to weigh 3.7lb with the 3AmpHr battery?

[Disaster]

....bought this set:
http://www.makita.ca/index.cfm?event=tool&id=8
came with a bonus xenon worklight, but a bag instead of the hard case, for CA$399 (about US$350)

By the way, where did you buy that set for $399? I live on the border with Canada and occasionally road trip there.

[dsydorko]

By the way, where did you buy that set for $399? I live on the border with Canada and occasionally road trip there.

I got it at Home Hardware. They do have stores across Canada I believe- looks like your closest to Ontario, I'm out west

www.homehardware.ca
it's on page 8 I think of this weeks flyer, they show it online. You can use this postal code to access the flyer when it prompts for one- T2G4R8

I really don't think this is the same as the white tools or any of the 62XX or 63XX models. But it has some pretty good features like the new 4 point motor and the user replaceable motor brushes, I'm surprised the little drill has a 1/2" chuck, the LED lights might prove to be handy occasionally, with the 3.0 Ah batteries runtime I hear is incredible, still 329 ft/lbs of torque on the drill, 1240 in/lbs on the impact, and I really like the features on the charger, although it's not the rapid one it is a 45 minute charge on these batteries and it's a really smart charger- with cooling fan, trickle/maintenance mode, conditioning cycle. I don't know if all Makita tools are made in Japan- but these say it right on them and I'm content with that as opposed to Malaysia, Taiwan, etc. They managed to get that low weight without resorting to too much plastic from what I can tell- still steel inside where it counts the most. My only complaints are (there's always something right?) short warranty (1 year); the clutch ring is small and the LED overlaps the bottom of it and it is kinda awkward to adjust even for a guy with smaller hands, but I guess sacrifices like this have to be made to make it so compact; and there's no bit holder on either tool (though I think you can add one from Makita); aside from the bag and the flashlight there was nothing else but a double ended phillips bit- a bit stingy with the little extras but oh well.

[Disaster]

I got it at Home Hardware. They do have stores across Canada I believe- looks like your closest to Ontario, I'm out west

www.homehardware.ca
it's on page 8 I think of this weeks flyer, they show it online. You can use this postal code to access the flyer when it prompts for one- T2G4R8
.

Found it, thanks. Yes, I live outside Detroit, right across the border from Windsor, Ontario. It is about a half hour drive from my office to the border...maybe 45 minutes to the nearest Home Hardware, if you include bridge and customs time. I'm vacillating between this one and the little LXT201 18V kit...which I also can't find in the U.S....or maybe just go for the BDF452HW with the 1.5AmpHr batteries and the quick charger......decisions!!!

[Velosapien]

Interesting...so do you think this is different than the compact one they sell in Canada and the UK that is advertised to weigh 3.7lb with the 3AmpHr battery?

Its more powerfull. Its a little longer, the clutch ring is bigger and very easy to handle. Thats probably because its essentially a scaled down BDP451 which is the big high end model. Internally it looks like its virtually identical. Main change is the two speed transmission that is more compact and has different gear ratio's.

The white models are intended as Makita's value line while the blue is the professional line. The 1.5 ah batteries, which are really the main difference, make the unit substantially cheaper. The advantage is the small batteries are REALLY light and small. For jobs that don't require excessive run time they are incredibly useful. Also, the white models can take the larger 3.0 ah batteries but the blue 18v models have stub that prevents the compact battery pack from sliding in. The compact battery has the slides on both sides the same size. The 3.0ah battery has the left slide cut a little lower than the right to clear the small stub on the power tool end. Far as I can tell there's no reason for the compact battery to not work on the blue drills. They are identical in every other respect. They would just last less. Makita just did this to differentiate the product. I'm considering cutting the stub off to be able to use the compact batteries on the impact driver. I suspect they don't want people to do this because it will compete and make tools like the impact even smaller and lighter than the smaller 14.4 model they will be releasing soon.

Its hard to tell but the really tiny model dsydorko got looks like it will only be released as a 14.4v unit in the US and Canada. Looks like Japan is the only one to get the 18v version so far.

[Disaster]

....but the blue 18v models have stub that prevents the compact battery pack from sliding in..........Far as I can tell there's no reason for the compact battery to not work on the blue drills.


Not sure about this, but there can be huge differences in a batteriy's max current capability.

I have a little RC experience and Lithium Ion cells are starting to take off there...previously, NiCd was king. Lithium Ion cells are rated not only for AmpHrs (capacity) but also max. current. If you buy a battery that isn't rated high enough in current, and then try to draw too much load from it, it can overheat...destroy internal leads...etc. Perhaps the 1.5AmpHr battery can't provide the current draw required of the larger tool.

[Velosapien]

Not sure about this, but there can be huge differences in a batteriy's max current capability.

I have a little RC experience and Lithium Ion cells are starting to take off there...previously, NiCd was king. Lithium Ion cells are rated not only for AmpHrs (capacity) but also max. current. If you buy a battery that isn't rated high enough in current, and then try to draw too much load from it, it can overheat...destroy internal leads...etc. Perhaps the 1.5AmpHr battery can't provide the current draw required of the larger tool.

I would normally accept this except that as far as I can tell the internals of the compact drill are the same as the blue one. There's no difference in power draw. Even the flashlight wont take the compact batteries. I doubt there's a technical reason reason behing that decision. Anyway, I might be willing to take the chance at the expense of a compact battery, they are not as expensive to replace :D

[dsydorko]

Found it, thanks. Yes, I live outside Detroit, right across the border from Windsor, Ontario. It is about a half hour drive from my office to the border...maybe 45 minutes to the nearest Home Hardware, if you include bridge and customs time. I'm vacillating between this one and the little LXT201 18V kit...which I also can't find in the U.S....or maybe just go for the BDF452HW with the 1.5AmpHr batteries and the quick charger......decisions!!!

Well, if you bought them in Canada I guess you'd want to take them out of the box and hide the receipt, maybe throw a little dirt on the bag to make it look used. Not sure, but if you declared them at customs you might have to pay some duty since they are made in Japan- not NAFTA exempt.
I didn't see the 18V (LXT201) kit at my local home hardware, or anywhere else for that matter, but if you find that one for a decent price that might be the way to go. They're still really light, and you'll never have to fear showing up at a jobsite and being heckled about your girly tools. With my 14.4V set I'm sure the boys'd be calling the makita bag my purse. The bag is huge actually, but the tools look more like a travel size hair dryer than a serious power tool. Even if I found the LXT201 set I couldn't justify the extra cost- the 14.4s were already stretching the budget too far as it was.
I used the impact last night for the first time on a little HVAC home improvement job and so far I love it, so easy to control. Standing on a ladder holding it above my head and at a weird angle, it was no problem and without struggling against the weight I was able to concentrate on the trigger pressure and drilling angle which made the work go smoothly.
On another note, I just picked up the Taunton's 2007 Tool Guide and there was a 14.4V cordless drill comparison there. The Milwaukee was the best overall pick of the readers and the editor. The readers picks had the Milwaukee followed by Bosch, Porter Cable (which the Editor picked as the best value), Dewalt, Makita (6337DWDE) and the Ridgid was at the bottom, only ahead of the Craftsman and Skil models tested. When I read the editors comments on the Ridgid it made me think that it would have won the best value choice if it wasn't for the weight. They complained about it being too heavy for many woodworking tasks. All the drills tested hovered between 5lbs and 5.8lbs and then there's the clunky Ridgid at 6.3lbs in a weight class of its own. I know that this is a woodworking mag, but even for construction workers does the extra weight do anything positive for them? (you can't say it means its more durable- reputable brands like Milwaukee, Bosch and Dewalt are still notably lighter). I wonder what would have happened if they tested the R83001 instead (lighter than the X2 version). For weight alone, the fairer comparison would be between a Ridgid X2 and the Dewalt XRP of the same voltage. They tested the DW983K-2.

[Disaster]

Well, if you bought them in Canada I guess you'd want to take them out of the box and hide the receipt, maybe throw a little dirt on the bag to make it look used. Not sure, but if you declared them at customs you might have to pay some duty since they are made in Japan- not NAFTA exempt.

....I just picked up the Taunton's 2007 Tool Guide and there was a 14.4V cordless drill comparison there. The Milwaukee was the best overall pick of the readers and the editor. The readers picks had the Milwaukee followed by Bosch, Porter Cable (which the Editor picked as the best value), Dewalt, Makita (6337DWDE) and the Ridgid was at the bottom, only ahead of the Craftsman and Skil models tested. When I read the editors comments on the Ridgid it made me think that it would have won the best value choice if it wasn't for the weight. They complained about it being too heavy for many woodworking tasks. All the drills tested hovered between 5lbs and 5.8lbs and then there's the clunky Ridgid at 6.3lbs in a weight class of its own. I know that this is a woodworking mag, but even for construction workers does the extra weight do anything positive for them? (you can't say it means its more durable- reputable brands like Milwaukee, Bosch and Dewalt are still notably lighter). I wonder what would have happened if they tested the R83001 instead (lighter than the X2 version). For weight alone, the fairer comparison would be between a Ridgid X2 and the Dewalt XRP of the same voltage. They tested the DW983K-2.

Can't recall how the whole duty thing works. Can bring back so much in value as long as I'm there for long enough time.....

Surprised the Makita didn't fair better....but they didn't test the real light one, did they. I love the heft of the Ridgid when I pick it up and the authority of how it powers through wood....but I find I use it less and less often because it is just too much for most of the jobs I do around the house.

The last few jobs I did were, hanging bathroom fixtures (small hole...screwdriving), installing a door bell (3/4 inch hole...driving), changing the oil on my Volvo (removing half a dozen 10mm fasterners from the lower engine cover) and finally rotating the tires (19mm wheelnuts.)

I only used my Ridgid set for the 10mm nuts...used the right angle 12V impact. For the other jobs I used a much lighter Ryobi OnePlus drill and for the wheelnuts I used a GoodYear/PepBoys 24 volt impact gun which for it's 2200inlbs of torque and only cost $80.

I think I...and my wife...would find it way more handy to have a small drill in the drawer that would always have charged batteries. My wife would never consider handling the 8lb Ridgid drill and unfortunately, the Ryobi requires planning to "condition" the batteries for a job.

Thanks again for the update and tips.

[Disaster]

I would normally accept this except that as far as I can tell the internals of the compact drill are the same as the blue one. There's no difference in power draw. Even the flashlight wont take the compact batteries. I doubt there's a technical reason reason behing that decision. Anyway, I might be willing to take the chance at the expense of a compact battery, they are not as expensive to replace :D


You are probably right...unless the motor is smaller on the smaller drill I'd suspect it is some silly marketing thing.

[Velosapien]

Well curiosity got the best of me as usual. I cut the little tab off the tools and tested the compact batteries on the standard Makita Li-Ion tools. They work just fine as imagined. The impact driver now weighs a staggering 2.9 lbs :D. It was interesting that according to makita the flashlight lasts 4.3 hours on the 3 ah batteries. I was working outdoors late last night so I used the flashlight continuosly and got a solid 4 hours out of the compact 1.5ah battery. I havent really given the compact drill a good workout yet but I drove about 100 1 5/8 screws last night plus a few holes. Put the battery in the charger when done and it was topped of in less than one minute so i guees it hardly broke a sweat with the use it got. Definately a good choice if looking for a drill to use when you don't want to break out the hefty full size drill. I'll need to see how the compact batteries fare on heavier stuff like the hammer drill.