Saws with new safety Sawstop Technology

[Ivan]

I have recently come across the coolest new technology called Sawstop. Basically, it stops the blade of a saw within 5 milleseconds after detecting the touch of a finger. It will be a difference between needing a bandaid or a hospital visit. It will cost between $50-$100 per saw to implement. I think it is amazing and would like to see it or something like it in Ridgid saws. You can find it at www.sawstop.com. I think most people would be willing to pay the extra cost for the safety. Maybe it could be an option if Ridgid is concerned that some would be unwilling to put up the extra cost.

[RRitch]

Ivan,

The saw stop has been discussed at great length on many of the woodworking forums. Consensus seems to be that the lawyers are standing in the way. (afraid of liability suits spawning from peoples own stupidity). They are afraid tha it will breed carelessness with the users. Jake what is your take on this one

[Ivan]

Isn't that amazing. I don't want to start a big thread here about lawyers but here is a device that can save some fingers but because of a few people out there wanting to make an easy buck in court, many people will lose their fingers. Oh well. I guess we just have to continue to be careful...

I would like to know, however, if Ridgid has at least considered something like this. I just don't see this device as being an insurance against any injury any more than a splitter or blade guard. I would never bet my life on any safety device but use them as added probability for protection. I enjoy still being able to count to ten with my kids on my two hands.

[RRitch]

Ivan,

I agree with you about the sad facts of lawyers and law suites. My best friends dad could have benefitted from the saw stop about a year ago. He had a very serious accident with his unisaw that cost him 4 fingers on one hand. He was ripping narrow pieces without a pushstick (mistake 1) and without a blade guard (mistake 2). He got his hand into the blade and before he knew it, the saw had removed 4 fingers, flipped his hand over and removed the same 4 fingers a second time. There was so much damage that they could only reattach one of them. If he had the saw stop and it worked as promised he would have gotten away with a scratch. Of course if he had been using proper safety measures he probably would not have had the accident.

I am afraid that unless the government forces the manufacturers to start installing the device, we will not see it on the market. And BTW we do not want the Govt to take those steps, just look at the UK. The UK govt decided that they needed to regulate table saws, as a result Dado blades are not legal in the UK. In addition you can not sale a TS in the UK unless it has a short arbor that will not accept a dado blade.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Gents, there is some misinformation here...

RRitch wrote "Consensus seems to be that the lawyers are standing in the way."

That would be the consensus of, frankly, uninformed guys posting to woodworking forums on the internet. Apologies (heck, I'm one too), but that is NOT authoritative. I had a friend over recently, he is a Senior Engineer for a tool company (that is not Emerson). Lawyers aren't the problem with SawStop at his company. I can't speak for him and it wouldn't be fair to be specific at all.

So speaking for myself, here's a different twist that's at least equally likely. It ain't Lawyers, it's Accountants. SawStop requires essentially an entire redesign of a tablesaw. Take a look around at the tablesaws on the market. How recently have ANY of them been redesigned. Other than the DeWalt 746 which is brand new, no one does complete overhauls. Very expensive. I don't know how many tablesaws RIDGID sells in a year. Let me pull a number out of the air (that's probably low), and guess a redesign would cost ten million dollars. How much will the price go up for Emerson Tool to see any reasonable return on that investment? That's a price difference that would be on top of the cost of SawStop itself.

If RIDGID (or anyone else) wanted to offer SawStop as an option, they would have to offer two entirely different machines.

"Dado blades are not legal in the UK"

This also is incorrect. Dado blades are perfectly legal in the United Kingdom. What is not allowed is to fit them to a tablesaw. What do they use them on? Radial Arm Saws.

Don't get me wrong, I think SawStop is the most innovative safety breakthrough ever (and my earlier cited friend and I fight about that ). I have communicated with Steve Gass, and told him that I hope he is immensely successful. Honestly, I do not think we will see SawStop on contractor's model saws for a long time. I'm hoping to be able to buy a cabinet saw with SawStop fitted some time, though...

Dave

[RRitch]

Dave,

You are correct and I stand corrected about the dado blades. The point that I was making is that "if" the government were to get involved in forcing this issue, than it opens the door to other restrictions such as the short arbor t revent the use of a dado on a TS.

As far as the consensus thing you are right there as well, and theories are just that. Unless we were to get a response to this from either the sawstop, or saw manufaturers we will not know the correct answer. That is why I was hoping that Jake could maybe shed some light on this.

I would also really like to see them as well. My friends dad is an experienced woodworker, and look at what happened to him. His accident went a long way towards making me aware of the dangers, but even I have to admit that there is not a guard on my saw at this time (even though the Ridgid guard is very easy it intall and remove.) I do use a splitter that I have added to a zero clearance insers, and alway use a push stick, but the extra protection just in case would be nice. Kind of like car insurance, you hope to never use it, but it nice to have if you need it.

[Ivan]

Like others, I just am curious at what Emerson's/Ridgid's take is on this. If it is cost prohibitive, then fine. All I know is that I am very fortunate to still have all my fingers and no dents in my body or head due to accidents. I used to borrow table saws from my friends for my home improvement projects. You wouldn't believe the dangerous things I did with them because of ignorance. After I got my TS2424, I read all the safety cautions, saw many forum posts and surfed the web to better understand the dos and don't when using a table saw. I know I now will not let anyone use my table saw unless they show me they understand about safety. I won't want to feel guilty if I find blood on my saw. The blade safety mechanism would be good for the lapses in table safety or when someone does something in ignorance. Of course it won't help with kickbacks and I suspect a person not knowledgeable about the dangers in using a table saw will probably not want to pay the extra expense.

Oh well, maybe manufacturers need to come up with another cheaper solution that can be put on all saws without government intervention. I would rather they keep out of our woodshops.

[Andy B.]

I rather be safe than sorry. I been cut on a tablesaw before.

[ViperGTSCU]

I am a fairly new woodworker at age 18. I first started learning from my uncle up north. He has lost 3 fingers from a circler saw. He was the one who told me that a table saw is the heart of a woodworkers shop. I had a craftsmens bench top ts that I quickly out grew before I really got in to woodworking. I set the craftsmen aside a got the ts2424 but before I did my left hand drifted in to the blade. I was lucky and the blade only hit my pointer finger pushing my hand back towards me, I only lost my finger nail. But my point is that when I bought my ts2424 it was most likely more machine then I need but I only wanted to buy one. I would have gladly paid as much as 200 dollars extra for my ts if it was equipped with the saw stop. In fact I love my ridgid but if I found ts in the same ballpark as in jet, delta, ect I would have bought that ts in a heart beat even if it was a not as great as a ts.

[KellyC]

SawStop has now taken the matter into their own hands and released their own line of saws...there are two available at this time...one contractor style and one cabinet style saw. They are both a bit pricey, but definitely worth it in my mind. I forget which mag I saw them in....might have been Handy, but they are now being sold.