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Boiler professional licensing

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Old 12-03-2005, 08:40 PM
plumber plumber no ha iniciado sesión
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recently a newer poster with no regard for his own safety or for the saftey of others posted about a boiler installation with an insane amount of pressures and installation anomolies. The numbers and missing items the poster quoted were beyond belief and unfortunatly posted in such a way to cause this plumber extreme concern for the saftey of everyone involved with the poster.

While boiler heat properly installed is very safe and the most comfortable available, it is dangerous if incompetently installed or maintained. The state of Illinois has no licensing requirements for the installers or maintainers of boiler systems. Some communities have inspection programs and certain institutions such as hospitals and nursing homes have state inspection plans but they allow for any idiot with a flashlight and inspection mirror to look at and work on them.

Does anyone here know if any other states have a licensing program for boiler installers or is this an overlooked yet critical area we need to work on. If someone has information of another States competent licensing program I would be very interested in downloading a full copy of the code and the laws involved. This is an area where I want no carverelli's in my State.

My personal thoughts are that a boiler professional should have at least 3 years experience as a plumber or a pipefitter and serve an additional 2 years as a boiler trade apprentice to be certified as a licensed boiler technician. I would also think it prudent that any boiler technician have at least 5 years in trade experience before being allowed to sell, install and maintain boiler systems.

Anyone else have thoughts on this subject?
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:25 AM
carverelli carverelli no ha iniciado sesión
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plumber are you calling me out? I never claimed to be a boiler installer guru. Certainly not near as much advanced whatever as you have. I was not the lead plumber on this install I spoke ( wrote) of. I have installed lots of various piping systems , and while I know the upc fairly well, I haven't come across installation standards for hot water heat. To me its just the same material I've used w/ domestic water delivery for a different purpose. I can read blueprints and have worked on enough systems to know when something is not exactly right. I've posted twice about the system in ? and all I get is bull****.
I would aggree these systems can be potentially dangerous. There isn't enough demand where I live for dedicated boiler installers, so plumbers usually do double duty. We call it "installing the wet side of the hvac". Not every job I do has hydronics as well as plumbing. But as I said before I put it in as drawn. If I don't aggree with part of the installation instructions I speak up- ask questions. But i've learn there isn't any help on this board-only a butt load of guff like " this idiot needs to find a qualifed dude to shoe him the way" He's a dander to himself and everyone around bla bla bla.
Whatever parameters you want to know about this systems that I haven't posted already just ask. There is a lot I don't know about this kind of stuff, but if the company I work for is installing them and they want me to put it in, I'll put it in the best way I know how. If it makes your panties bunch up -tough crap
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Old 12-04-2005, 10:14 AM
imported_Bob D.
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Plumber,

You might try NJ DCA -Codes and Standards, Bureau of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Compliance at (609) 984-2248.

You can contact the Bureau of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Compliance either by telephone or in writing at P.O. Box 814, Trenton, NJ 08625-0814.

The Boiler, Pressure Vessel and Refirgeration Act (N.J.S. 34:714 et seq) and N.J.A.C. 5:11, Boilers, Pressure Vessels and Refrigeration.
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Old 12-04-2005, 10:56 AM
imported_Bob D.
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carverelli,

You might want to check out these Washington State webpages;

http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensin...ub/default.asp

Snipped from the above page:
"About the Boiler Program - Installation or reinstallation permits are required before any new or existing boiler/unfired or pressure vessel is installed, reinstalled, or moved in the state of Washington. L&I staff perform the inspections and investigations and issue permits and operating certificates."


RCW 70.79.090 Exemptions From Certain Provisions:

The following boilers and unfired pressure vessels shall be exempt from the requirements of RCW 70.79.220 and 70.79.240 through70.79.330 :

(4) Hot water heating boilers carrying a pressure of not more than thirty pounds per square inch and which are located in private residences or in apartment houses of less than six families;


Chapter 296-104 WAC Board of Boiler Rules can be found here:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=296-104


RCW stands for "Revised Code of Washington"
WAC is for "Washington Administrative Code"

Took me about 10 minutes to come up with this information, sorry if you think I and others are picking on you, but you need to do a little research and get some more hands-on. Our concern has nothing to do with you personally, it is a genuine concern for those who may be injured or killed by a less than competent installation.

This appears to be the requirements in Washington for someone to be a plumber;

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=18.106.070

RCW 18.106.070
Certificates of Competency, Installer Endorsement — Issuance — Renewal — Rights of Holder — Training Certificates — Supervision — Training, Certified Plumber.

(1) The department shall issue a certificate of competency to all applicants who have passed the examination and have paid the fee for the certificate. The certificate shall bear the date of issuance, and shall expire on the birthdate of the holder immediately following the date of issuance. The certificate shall be renewable every other year, upon application, on or before the birthdate of the holder. The department shall renew a certificate of competency if the applicant: (a) Pays the renewal fee assessed by the department; and (b) during the past two years has completed sixteen hours of continuing education approved by the department with the advice of the advisory board, including four hours related to electrical safety. If a person fails to renew the certificate by the renewal date, he or she must pay a doubled fee. If the person does not renew the certificate within ninety days of the renewal date, he or she must retake the examination and pay the examination fee.

The journeyman plumber and specialty plumber certificates of competency, the medical gas piping installer endorsement, and the temporary permit provided for in this chapter grant the holder the right to engage in the work of plumbing as a journeyman plumber, specialty plumber, or medical gas piping installer, in accordance with their provisions throughout the state and within any of its political subdivisions on any job or any employment without additional proof of competency or any other license or permit or fee to engage in the work. This section does not preclude employees from adhering to a union security clause in any employment where such a requirement exists.

(2) A person who is indentured in an apprenticeship program approved under chapter 49.04 RCW for the plumbing construction trade or who is learning the plumbing construction trade may work in the plumbing construction trade if supervised by a certified journeyman plumber or a certified specialty plumber in that plumber's specialty. All apprentices and individuals learning the plumbing construction trade shall obtain a plumbing training certificate from the department. The certificate shall authorize the holder to learn the plumbing construction trade while under the direct supervision of a journeyman plumber or a specialty plumber working in his or her specialty. The holder of the plumbing training certificate shall renew the certificate annually. At the time of renewal, the holder shall provide the department with an accurate list of the holder's employers in the plumbing construction industry for the previous year and the number of hours worked for each employer. An annual fee shall be charged for the issuance or renewal of the certificate. The department shall set the fee by rule. The fee shall cover but not exceed the cost of administering and enforcing the trainee certification and supervision requirements of this chapter. Apprentices and individuals learning the plumbing construction trade shall have their plumbing training certificates in their possession at all times that they are performing plumbing work. They shall show their certificates to an authorized representative of the department at the representative's request.

(3) Any person who has been issued a plumbing training certificate under this chapter may work if that person is under supervision. Supervision shall consist of a person being on the same job site and under the control of either a journeyman plumber or an appropriate specialty plumber who has an applicable certificate of competency issued under this chapter. Either a journeyman plumber or an appropriate specialty plumber shall be on the same job site as the noncertified individual for a minimum of seventy-five percent of each working day unless otherwise provided in this chapter. The ratio of noncertified individuals to certified journeymen or specialty plumbers working on a job site shall be: (a) Not more than two noncertified plumbers working on any one job site for every certified specialty plumber or journeyman plumber working as a specialty plumber; and (b) not more than one noncertified plumber working on any one job site for every certified journeyman plumber working as a journeyman plumber.

An individual who has a current training certificate and who has successfully completed or is currently enrolled in an approved apprenticeship program or in a technical school program in the plumbing construction trade in a school approved by the work force training and education coordinating board, may work without direct on-site supervision during the last six months of meeting the practical experience requirements of this chapter.

(4) An individual who has a current training certificate and who has successfully completed or is currently enrolled in a medical gas piping installer training course approved by the department may work on medical gas piping systems if the individual is under the direct supervision of a certified medical gas piping installer who holds a medical gas piping installer endorsement one hundred percent of a working day on a one-to-one ratio.

(5) The training to become a certified plumber must include not less than sixteen hours of classroom training established by the director with the advice of the advisory board. The classroom training must include, but not be limited to, electrical wiring safety, grounding, bonding, and other related items plumbers need to know to work under RCW 19.28.091.

(6) All persons who are certified plumbers before January 1, 2003, are deemed to have received the classroom training required in subsection (5) of this section.

I have not found anything concerning certification with respect to heating systems or boiler work. In NJ, there is a seperate state issued license for Plumbing and another for Heating.
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Old 12-04-2005, 11:25 AM
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carverelli,

I don't know about others but I believe you are a danger to yourself and those around you. When I make a post using my 30+ years of experience you blow it off as being overly cautious. Why in the World would I care to school you and expose more people to your attitude?

When you come in as a new poster and ask for advise which you immediately discount you are not asking for advise.

Mark
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:01 PM
plumber plumber no ha iniciado sesión
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Thanks Bob D. I will use the information and numbers you provided.
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:06 PM
carverelli carverelli no ha iniciado sesión
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I never discount worthwhile advice. I do however filter the bs from sound advice. I never asked anyone to qualify me as an installer from their lofty standards. I am and will continue to install hydronic systems when asked to my the outfit(s) I work for. And will do it to the best of my ability.
Its your call whether you want to help a fellow plumber or shut up. I secured my commercial journeyman license in 1996 with a cumulative score of 92 %(passing is 75). In the heavier commercial plumbing market there is a call for hydronic systems installed my the same company doing the domestic stuff. If my boss has no problem w/ it and the local inspectors have no problem w/ it , I can't see why you and others have a big beef. I'm not perfect, and don't claim to be, and I learn quick. As I said before, you can accelerate the learning cure and maybe save a few lives( the ones you think I'm endangering) or not. Later
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:13 PM
carverelli carverelli no ha iniciado sesión
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Bob D, those web pages are great- thanks
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:54 PM
plumber plumber no ha iniciado sesión
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carverelli,

If you are your companies lead installer of boilers and you have 6 total installs to your name, (you say your company has even fewer,) and you are working with a system that you have no understanding of then yes I am calling you out. You have no business doing what you are doing and you are going to get someone hurt very badly if not worse.

Other posts on other subjects indicate that you have little to no regard for the simplest of safety procedures and you have bragged about your indifference to standard codes and practices. Now you are working with boiler systems you know little about and you make smart assed relpies if others don't help guide you along with FREE information.

This thread was about hydronic licensing. Something I am sure you will never bother to qualify for because you feel you are above standard procedures and that rules don't apply to you unless you feel like it..

I came on this site about a year ago looking to communicate with fellow tradesmen, discuss tools, and maybe help a few competent do it yourselfers with non hazzardous projects and private plumbing problems. It never occured to me at the time that people such as yourself with no business in any of the trades would also come around.

In that I have no desire to share information with someone as disrespectful as yourself (go to school and pay for it) I will say addios to this site for a good while. I've needed to spend less time in front of my computer and thank you for giving me incentive to stay off.

There are some highly qualified and knowledgable people on this site carverelli and I have learned much from them. When you start taking things like safety and codes seriously and when you decide to quit insulting others when they give good sound and safe advice you will learn something too.

SAFETY FIRST
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:40 PM
carverelli carverelli no ha iniciado sesión
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Plumber
never mind- maybe I'll go to Illinois and look for work . My father in law lives in Baylis and brother in law in Mattoon.
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