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  • #76
    Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

    Originally posted by draintech1 View Post
    I guess next you'll want the people that detail your car to be ASE certified, I mean they are working in and on your car, shouldn't they be qualified and knowledgable about your safety in driving the car when they clean it?
    Funny you say that as I also own a Detail/Body Shop.....rotflmao

    Well
    gotta go fix a water line see ya
    Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 08-14-2007, 11:15 AM.
    http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

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    • #77
      Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

      Originally posted by TomSV650 View Post
      I don't agree AT ALL that a drain guys needs to be licensed. I've been doing drain cleaning(with out a license) for over twenty years. I'll put my technical know how and experience against anybody on this board when it comes to drain cleaning. But when it comes to plumbing, there's no way i'll compare myself to most of the full on plumbers on this board. Two totally separate trades.

      If your serious about drain cleaning, you really need a truck full of equipment. The plumbers I know usually only have a couple of small snakes and what they do is try to clean a bigger line than what there snake is capable of, and the line ends up stopping up a couple of days later and they end up calling me out. I have seen this countless times. Of course nobody does that on this board.

      Plumbers will also say that a certain pipe should be replaced. That may be technical right, but just because a mainline has roots in it, or a kitchen sink line is full of sludge, it may only need to be cleaned out once a year which will save the owner alot of money.

      I've always believed that a customer is better off calling a "drain" only company than a full on plumber. I have a couple of very large property management companies who believe this also.

      This is an over-generalization as well. Although drain cleaning was a small portion of our business I don’t know of any drain cleaning company who carried as many machines as we did on our service trucks. Much of the drain cleaning we did was referrals from drain cleaning companies, second opinions or for customers who lost faith in the drain cleaning businesses they were using.

      There was a time when drain cleaning companies hired under-qualified people and drain cleaning companies were considered bottom-feeders. Drain cleaning was not a career it was just a job until something better came along. While that is still true with some companies there are now those in drain cleaning businesses that are professionals. At the same time there are now plumbing companies who follow the model of the old-time drain cleaners. I think we need to judge each individual on his/her own personal abilities rather than putting them into a group.

      Mark
      Last edited by ToUtahNow; 08-14-2007, 01:18 PM.
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

        Hey all clear I thought you said that you only had a drain cleaning license. Why are you touching water pipe repairs, your breaking the law are you not. The same goes for the rest of the drain cleaners. I would bet from time to time you sell the drain cleaning customer, A new sewer that you handle yourself. You might not install new toilet's or lav's or tub's but I sure if it comes down to digging a drain pipe, you are there permit or not. That's the reason you can charge less. Little to no insurance and other cost that the licensed guy has to have. IMO most of the drain cleaning guys are just above a handyman.And I like to get them busted around my town every chance I get.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          This is an over-generalization as well. Although drain cleaning was a small portion of our business I don’t know of any drain cleaning company who carried as many machines as we did on our service trucks. Much of the drain cleaning we did was referrals from drain cleaning companies, second opinions or for customers who lost faith in the drain cleaning businesses they were using.

          There was a time when drain cleaning companies hired under-qualified people and drain cleaning companies were considered bottom-feeders. Drain cleaning was not a career it was just a job until something better came along. While that is still true with some companies there are now those in drain cleaning businesses that are professionals. At the same time there are now plumbing companies who follow the model of the old-time drain cleaners. I think we need to judge each individual on his/her own personal abilities rather than putting them into a group.

          Mark
          I hear what you're saying Mark..you make some very good points. The bottom line is..those in coded area's need to follow the code.

          They are not above the law that are set forth per jurisdiction. It's all fun and games, until an entire family gets sick..that is why we have heavily coded area's, to protect the consumer. In the end, it will all fall back on the Jurisdiction's for not properly enforcing the code set forth. It's the job of the jurisdiction to help protect the consumer, and we have statue's in place for that.

          I'm also at a lost as to why a Drain Company is more competent to clean a drain than a Plumber? I don't understand the logic behind that one, because an un-licensed person(plumbing wise) has no idea about Plumbing design or installation. I know these people didn't have a vision over night to tell them how a Plumbing system properly operates.
          I think we all can say that we are the best at what we do, but to say 1 cleans a drain better then the other..is a topic of debate, and kind of silly if you ask me.


          For this debate..that is why our jurisdiction and many others in our state amended the code to make sure the consumer has full confidence in hiring a licensed (Plumber) professional,if they so choose.

          Finally..

          I like the old adage of.."he who crows loudest is usually full of ****!"
          Last edited by Ozone89; 08-14-2007, 04:14 PM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

            Originally posted by Ozone89 View Post
            I hear what you're saying Mark..you make some very good points. The bottom line is..those in coded area's need to follow the code.

            They are not above the law that are set forth per jurisdiction. It's all fun and games, until an entire family gets sick..that is why we have heavily coded area's, to protect the consumer. In the end, it will all fall back on the Jurisdiction's for not properly enforcing the code set forth. It's the job of the jurisdiction to help protect the consumer, and we have statue's in place for that.

            I'm also at a lost as to why a Drain Company is more competent to clean a drain than a Plumber? I don't understand the logic behind that one, because an un-licensed person(plumbing wise) has no idea about Plumbing design or installation. I know these people didn't have a vision over night to tell them how a Plumbing system properly operates.
            I think we all can say that we are the best at what we do, but to say 1 cleans a drain better then the other..is a topic of debate, and kind of silly if you ask me.


            For this debate..that is why our jurisdiction and many others in our state amended the code to make sure the consumer has full confidence in hiring a licensed (Plumber) professional,if they so choose.

            Finally..

            I like the old adage of.."he who crows loudest is usually full of ****!"
            At the end of the day I believe it is all about the safety and protection of our communities through safe and efficent plumbing systems. For the most part I have seen the members who are on this site are here to learn and to share experiences. Whether they are licensed or not, being on the site shows me they care about the work they do. While I believe there should be a classification for drain cleaners I don't believe it should be a plumbing classification. Perhaps a Health Department license would do the trick.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              Okay guys I think you are all missing the fact we all live under and work under different jurisdictions. While both the UPC and the IPC require all plumbing contractors to be licensed most of the jurisdictions I work under have “Handyman Exemptions”. California’s exemption is $500 while Hawaii’s is $1,000. Arizona’s is at $500 only because they just recently voted down an attempt to change it to $2,000. The above means in the jurisdictions mentioned you do not need to have anything more than a business license regardless of what the Plumbing Code says.

              I believe “Handyman Exemptions” are a bad thing but not because licensed plumbers are losing work it is because the licensing requirements in the Codes are meant to protect the consumer. However, this does not mean a drain cleaner is not qualified to clean drains. It is likely some drain cleaners are better at cleaning drains then some licensed plumbers are. Of course if a drain cleaner attempted to rough-in a house I would consider him over his head as related to his qualifications.

              Now let’s get a little more complicated. Gene lives in Pittsfield Maine. If my recent research is correct Maine does not even have a statewide plumbing code. It appears every municipality decides what they want to use as a plumbing code. It does however appear Maine recently adopted the 2003 IRC which includes residential plumbing (minimal) within the code.

              Now to top it off it looks like Maine does not have a statewide licensing program for contractors. This seems very unusually to me but I did find legislation where they are suppose to have a Contractors Board up and running by January 2008. So if the State does not have a licensing program for contractors can you really have unlicensed contractors? Now Gene may have to help me out with who does what in his State but I could not find anything to indicated the State licenses contractors yet.

              Mark
              Mark,
              You are correct in that Maine does not have statewide licensing program for contractors. As far as a contractors board by January 2008, I doubt it. I think this is the same board they have been talking about since 1908. If and when it does come around I'm sure it will consist of nothing more then yet another bull**** fee and a simple registration. The legislations made here minds well be written on T.P. as the legislator sits in their ivory tower making this law and that but they don't make any money available or put enough people in charge to enforce them. EX: we only have two state plumbing inspectors for the entire state. I don't think they even have a secretary.
              WE are one of the poorest states yet we're one of the highest taxed.
              I'd better stop now before I get myself all worked up about the State.
              INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
              Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

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              • #82
                Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                Gene,

                Sometimes it is tough to understand what others are going through unless you have their frame of reference. Here in Southern California you go to large corporate areas and stand in long lines to get your permits and then wait forever for an Inspector to come to your site.

                In contrast when I built my building in Utah the Inspector was renting a desk at the back of a candy store and told me he would be on vacation while I was under construction so to just take pictures for him. I'm not sure which system is worst.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                  Originally posted by freddy View Post
                  Hey all clear I thought you said that you only had a drain cleaning license. Why are you touching water pipe repairs, your breaking the law are you not. The same goes for the rest of the drain cleaners. I would bet from time to time you sell the drain cleaning customer, A new sewer that you handle yourself. You might not install new toilet's or lav's or tub's but I sure if it comes down to digging a drain pipe, you are there permit or not. That's the reason you can charge less. Little to no insurance and other cost that the licensed guy has to have. IMO most of the drain cleaning guys are just above a handyman.And I like to get them busted around my town every chance I get.
                  No I don't have any license. I`m only a member of the ICC. I have a 4.0 Diploma in the Skilled Trades Of Plumbing and I keep a hard copy of the IPC 2003 and 2006 in my truck and yes I use "the books"
                  I`m still learning at the age of 42
                  I can do any plumbing out side of our city (In our County) and when working in our City I`m working with my master plumber and he keep`s me in line.

                  I don't charge less, I charge more the any drain cleaner in my area. I`m doing this to make money not a living. If I wanted to just make a living I would be punching a time clock.

                  I pay the same insurance as any plumber and my phone book adds cost the same, My truck cost the same, my trailer cost the same, anything I do cost me the same it cost anyone in plumbing. "Yes" I also install sewers but I work with my master plumber by my side so what's your point??? I have been doing plumbing for the last 20+ years off and on. I don't know it all and that's why I use my master plumber all the time and "YES" we do pull permits on any job that requires it. I do NOT do any new plumbing only repairs other then sewer replacements. I know my limits and I never liked rough in`s when I had a card in my back pocket so I give things like that to my plumber. Before you ask "NO" I dont do Water Heaters either Thats his job

                  When you call the city on me the inspector might bring me a soda out as he knows I go by the book Thats why I work with a master plumber
                  Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 08-14-2007, 05:46 PM.
                  http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    At the end of the day I believe it is all about the safety and protection of our communities through safe and efficent plumbing systems. For the most part I have seen the members who are on this site are here to learn and to share experiences. Whether they are licensed or not, being on the site shows me they care about the work they do. While I believe there should be a classification for drain cleaners I don't believe it should be a plumbing classification. Perhaps a Health Department license would do the trick.

                    Mark
                    I agree that Drain Cleaners should have some type of license and education that focuses on drain,stacks, and vents and principles of Plumbing. (a license for only drain cleaners) Drain Cleaning and Plumbing will forever go hand in hand, and with proper education, it helps eliminate any violations in the code.

                    It will not only benefit them..but also educate them about there skill and why drains fail.

                    I also agree with another that...everything is different all across this country. I have no idea how tough it is or isn't in California. Maybe in Montana you don't need any license to do anything. Maybe in Nebraska you go to a special school for Drain cleaning. What i do know is..what happens in my state and the laws that are being broken on a constant basis. (not just with Plumbing and Drain cleaning)

                    If everyone cared about their craft regardless if you Plumb or drain clean..it's our responsibility to make sure the code is followed, and to educate the ones who don't know. We are all sick and tired of illegal Plumbers, and drain cleaners..or people who commit violations. We can either sit here and ***** and moan..or stand up and say something to your jurisdictions to make sure they are enforcing the code.
                    The guy sitting behind the desk is being paid to do his job...so it's up to us to make sure he's doing his job.

                    I just think some need to step back and put yourself in someone else's shoes, and see what they have to deal with, instead of attacking them with insults. There are many people here who actually care about what they do and how they do it.

                    You're only bettering yourself and business by educating yourself in the field that you work.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                      Originally posted by Ozone89 View Post
                      I agree that Drain Cleaners should have some type of license and education that focuses on drain,stacks, and vents and principles of Plumbing. (a license for only drain cleaners) Drain Cleaning and Plumbing will forever go hand in hand, and with proper education, it helps eliminate any violations in the code.

                      It will not only benefit them..but also educate them about there skill and why drains fail.
                      I also agree that Drain Cleaners should have some type of license and education. I get to see all kinds of stuff left behind from other Drain Cleaners that don't have the first clue on the WHY`s and the HOW`s of a drain work`s.
                      I myself would like to see a "Sewer or Drain ONLY" license.
                      Meaning you can do anything that "ONLY" has to do with Sewers or Drain Lines. Plumbers don't want to play in $hit and those of us that do, should be able to make the replacement money if the job requires a replacement.
                      Don't get me wrong, I would still work with my master plumber as we give each other work.
                      One hand feeds the other
                      http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                        This is an over-generalization as well. Although drain cleaning was a small portion of our business I don’t know of any drain cleaning company who carried as many machines as we did on our service trucks. Much of the drain cleaning we did was referrals from drain cleaning companies, second opinions or for customers who lost faith in the drain cleaning businesses they were using.

                        There was a time when drain cleaning companies hired under-qualified people and drain cleaning companies were considered bottom-feeders. Drain cleaning was not a career it was just a job until something better came along. While that is still true with some companies there are now those in drain cleaning businesses that are professionals. At the same time there are now plumbing companies who follow the model of the old-time drain cleaners. I think we need to judge each individual on his/her own personal abilities rather than putting them into a group.

                        Mark
                        Not at all. Just think about it, most plumbers just don't have the room to carry many different types of snakes. Of course there's lots of good plumbers who do drain cleaning right and want to do to it right, but there's many out there who don't. It's usually the one man shops who don't.

                        Ozone89, you really sound like a bitter person who blames everyone for your slow bussiness. Drain cleaners are not your problem chief, the massive invasion of illegals and legal people in this country is flooding our trades. Vote for people who want to stop this.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                          Ozone89, you really sound like a bitter person who blames everyone for your slow bussiness. Drain cleaners are not your problem chief, the massive invasion of illegals and legal people in this country is flooding our trades. Vote for people who want to stop this.[/quote]

                          Tom..you know what they say about people who assume..you know what I mean chief? In my neck of the woods, Drain Cleaners need to be licensed..it's not that hard to comprehend..maybe for you it is, but I can't help you with the problem..only suggest you use "Hooked on Phonics!"


                          Bitter? LOL..Umm I think it's you who is the bitter one chief...this is a Drain Cleaning forum.your Political agenda's are not wanted.
                          Last edited by Ozone89; 08-15-2007, 07:59 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                            Originally posted by Ozone89 View Post
                            Ozone89, you really sound like a bitter person who blames everyone for your slow bussiness. Drain cleaners are not your problem chief, the massive invasion of illegals and legal people in this country is flooding our trades. Vote for people who want to stop this.
                            Tom..you know what they say about people who assume..you know what I mean chief? In my neck of the woods, Drain Cleaners need to be licensed..it's not that hard to comprehend.
                            If I wanted your opinion on how I supposedly feel, I'm more then capable of giving that to you.[/quote]

                            My statement:
                            Don't be mad at Tom. You may not feel this way but this is the perception you give off. I had the same feeling. This is a written forum so we can only perceive what we read, we can't take body laguage into account.
                            Last edited by gear junkie; 08-15-2007, 07:58 PM. Reason: doesn't look right
                            Buy cheap, buy twice.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                              My statement:
                              Don't be mad at Tom. You may not feel this way but this is the perception you give off. I had the same feeling. This is a written forum so we can only perceive what we read, we can't take body laguage into account.[/quote]

                              To be honest, I really don't care how I am perceived,because I didn't join this board to be apart of any cliques with secret handshakes.

                              I shouldn't have to sit here and justify anything to you or anyone else. You're half right..this is not only a written forum..but a public forum. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to click on this topic or read anything I say. If you don't like what I have to say..don't read it..or don't respond..it's that simple.

                              There is a boat load of stuff here I don't like...but I never called anyone out on it either.

                              People didn't like that I said Drain cleaners should be licensed to touch a Plumbing system. Tough tootles..plenty of places in this country where it's written into law...lot's of places in Pa are one of them.

                              Let me give you a bit of advice...

                              If you choose to be a business owner one day, you are going to care about the illegal Plumbing being done and the code not being enforced(if you're a plumber). I'm going to go out on a limb and say..you never lived in an area where the code was never enforced. The code is there to protect you...and the consumer.
                              You would be pretty darn ticked off..after you spent 5 years on the job and at least 4 years in school to get your license, and come to find out Joe Handyman is hiring out for Plumbing without a license.

                              You would be angry at guys buying freon at the supply house..when they don't have a license to buy it.

                              People who say it's being bitter are the ones who commit these acts. It's called protecting the trade!

                              Also..

                              Don't you think for a minute that a customer is forever..because they like the work you do. All customers look at the bottom line and what it's going to cost them. I'm willing to bet almost 50% of the customer base..don't care that you licensed. To them it's just a valve to replace..or a faucet to install.

                              Be or put yourself in someones shoes before you try and criticized someones perception.
                              Last edited by Ozone89; 08-15-2007, 08:39 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Starting Drain Cleaning business - Need advice

                                [quote=Ozone89;88734]


                                To be honest, I really don't care how I am perceived,because I didn't join this board to be apart of any cliques with secret handshakes.
                                [quote]

                                believe me, there are no cliques here there is always going to be people that agree with what you, i, others say and then there's the rest of the crowd

                                i'm sure i've made friends, at least that i can count on 1 hand and enemy's, probably more than both of our hands. then there's the ones that just go away

                                as you probably have read by now, there are a few subjects that get the pot stirred. your topic and my flat rate topic

                                stick around and let the discussion cool off. you're not going to get people to change. at least not the regulars here.

                                i believe that the drain cleaners here on this forum are here to better themselves. the ones that really need the lecture are the ones that you see at the supply house and don't have a clue.

                                i saw one yesterday at the supply house, buying his first hand snake. he was so green that i had to laugh. he already was bragging about how he is going to start selling sewer jobs for $5,000. since the going rate was $12,000.
                                this from a guy that didn't even own a snake for 30 seconds.

                                the guys here i feel are much more qualified and are here to learn.

                                i look down on the ones(plumbers or drain cleaners) that are out to rip off the public.

                                give it some time to cool off and add to the post that are not as hot.

                                the plumbers forum is hot, lets not catch fire. the wood forum needs to catch up

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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