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Are we saying to much?

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  • Are we saying to much?

    I've noticed alot of threads recently that were business oriented. While the information that was put out was valuable and I enjoyed every post, is this something we want Joe Homeowner to see? Could we schedule a chat time where we get on the chat and discuss only business(it'll be hard). We'll still have the flow of information but with the privacy we need.
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

  • #2
    Re: Are we saying to much?

    From the get go I was an advocate for some type of private forum.
    There are things best not openly discussed, like venting about customers, or discussing technique.
    On another level, it's good that people have been able to read and see why our expenses are what they are, and why we charge what we do...maybe folks will stop thinking we're rich.
    Other forums have a way of allowing longterm members to post in private "pro only" forums seperated from the general public...generally based on number of posts and/or referrals from existing pro members.

    There was a recent example here of the communication gap between pro's and homeowner/DIY's that reverted to blatent insult regarding know-how, experience and where the line is between them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are we saying to much?

      I do feel like we say too much at times. Mainly about customer complaints and helping homeowners and handymen. I am guilty of this but I try not to offer advice to homeowners/handymen. Business practices could be touchy also, depending on what is being said.

      Having a chat would be difficult mainly because I have noticed we have a hard time staying on topic.

      Duck, how would suggest the moderators go about verifying that a individual is a pro? What level of pro would they have to be? I can see it getting messy but I agree with you.
      Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Are we saying to much?

        Just seeing threads like this embolden me to do it my self.

        <sarcasm>
        Next time you have a problem with your computer - be it ever so small, I'll be sure not to advise any course of action or discuss how
        we practitioners interact with others.
        </sarcasm>

        Perhaps, you want to set up your own private board (http://invisionfree.com/). That will be $175 for the advise.

        Really, I think you guys should relax. Most of us work every day just like you do and I'd bet we encounter the same
        problems as you do dealing with customers/clients.
        Last edited by SteveA(MD); 01-07-2008, 08:47 PM.
        “If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Are we saying to much?

          Im all for a pros only category
          The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

          www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are we saying to much?

            Originally posted by SteveA(MD) View Post
            Just seeing threads like this embolden me to do it my self.

            <sarcasm>
            Next time you have a problem with your computer - be it ever so small, I'll be sure not to advise any course of action or discuss how
            we practitioners interact with others.
            </sarcasm>
            <no sarcasm>
            I have yet to recieve any advice on trouble with mine from anyone online....not for free anyway.
            Usually boils down to speaking with someone in India that has an accent I can barely get past.
            If I do something massively wrong in MSCONFIG, I could crash my PC, maybe delete my C-drive..kill the motherboard even.
            If I do something wrong with the vent on my gas fixture, I could kill my family.</no sarcasm>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Are we saying to much?

              sadly i never liked the idea of this before and i swore that if it did happen i would leave this fourm, but after a certian water heater tread, i kinda wonder if we should have a thread like that now.

              but what would be there rule how do you determe who gets in and who does not? that has always been the problem, and there really needs to be a set of rules that would keep the pros from the home owners.
              9/11/01, never forget.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are we saying to much?

                In other words,
                #include <iostream>
                using namespace std;
                int main ()
                {

                cout << "There is a major difference between doing a simple task like drain cleaning, small leak repairs, even simple programming and working with something that could burn your home down" << endl;

                }
                return 0;
                }

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are we saying to much?

                  Well gents, this is a public open forum for debate. If you want a private forum set one up over at invisionfree.com.

                  As for the gas fixture, I doubt there are very many people here looking for advise or insider secrets that can be misconstrued and lead to death. Nice try - but very anecdotal.

                  And if you are worried about joe homeowner taking money out of your pockets because he decides to DIY, remember that people here on this forum are inclined to do that any way. Also remember that joe homeowners like me aren't about to go out the big box store and buy a 75' snake to clear a drain once every few years - like my friendly neighborhood plumber did for me yesterday.
                  “If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Are we saying to much?

                    Steve, all due respect for your experience in matters of CO ventilation...read the papers, especially in northern states during the colder months.
                    Also, NOT intended as insult, but some of the worst DIY customers I have are engineers looking for a bailout, of those, software engineers are the most frequent.
                    Here's an even weirder observation, Java programmers are the worst of that bunch, for some reason C++ guys are VERY detail oriented.
                    It's VERY easy to look at some pipes and only see "some pipes".
                    An example: You've just demo'ed your kitchen, you have galvy water pipes and want to remove them to put in copper or PEX...are you sure they're water pipes...are they gas lines?
                    Does the avg homeowner know the difference between steel smoke pipe and aluminum dryer vent?...they're sold right beside eachother at home depot...whats the difference?
                    Last edited by DuckButter; 01-07-2008, 09:48 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Are we saying to much?

                      This is a proposed way to go about it. A new member has to have at least 100 posts and PM Josh asking for membership to the pros only section. Josh would then look at his posts to see the content of the posts and the member. This would eliminate anybody with 100 posts that just contain fluff or erroneus information, i.e. stupid questions. Another way a member could join is if an established pro asked Josh for the person to be invited in. Rick asking for his friend Steve in would be an example. Similar to a vouch of character. Getting in like would have to be approved by other members too. example; Chris connor can't invite sylvia tiger to be a pro.

                      I'm sorry I asking Josh to do another task that won't increase his pay so maybe we can allow someone like Mark(Toutahnow) to screen for pro members. I think Mark is the most mature and respectful person on the forum. He's impartial and very tactful. I'm saying this prematurely as I didn't ask him for if he was comfortable with this nomination.

                      This is not just for us plumbers. I'm thinking about guys like Garager, Ruudacguy, etc. Anybody whose interactions on the forum coinside with how someone earns a living.

                      We talk about the degredation of our trade through advances like sharkbites, pex, Home depot(selling plumbing material), etc. This is no different. I've been doing plumbing for 9 years, HVAC for 11. How long have you been doing your trade? Are you willing to give up your knowledge to someone so easily. Try to find a DIY website for HVAC. I haven't found one. Many HVAC supply house won't sell to a DIY. This is why HVAC commands high respect throughout the trade. Why let Joe Homeowner know the inner workings of your business. Does a mechanic tell you why your brake job cost $450 to the penny? Of course not, he doesn't tell you why labor cost 200 per hour. If we can't uphold our trade to a higher elevation, how can we expect anyone else too?
                      Buy cheap, buy twice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Are we saying to much?

                        DB,

                        All due respect to you and your profession, but most of the errors in installations are due to people who profess to be professionals but do questionable work. Like the plumber who did my house years ago and put a cleanout at a 90 right next to the I-Beam in the basement rendering it useless - thus the 75 ft snake.

                        I hear it all the time from cable engineers to HVAC guys that come to my house for annual maintenance and they can even recognize the offenders work.

                        Point is, you are on the negative side of the DIY argument and I doubt that I can change your opinion. Perhaps you should make a visit to the John Bridge tile forum and read what he has discovered about DIYers in large.

                        And for what it's worth, I have been in the software business for 25 years. The language is only a tool. It's up to the programmer how they solve the problem pitfalls and all it has nothing to do with the language.

                        Oh, and your C++ example has one closing brace too many and the return is basically a formality it is not needed.
                        “If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Are we saying to much?

                          gear,
                          but that leaves the question of what about guys like me? 12 years ownner 15 years in carpentry, then walk away from it, now i drive a dump truck part time. but i write alot of "fluff" in my opion, so should i be in the pros forum? i mean after all i do have a vast amount of knowlege? so what would you say to me ........... hosestly?


                          now the point of that question is this.... not what about the new members, it is what about the old members, or the members that only come here every once in a while, that i am worried about upsetting, i just simply used my self as an example
                          Last edited by oldslowchevy; 01-07-2008, 10:09 PM.
                          9/11/01, never forget.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Are we saying to much?

                            Originally posted by SteveA(MD) View Post
                            Perhaps you should make a visit to the John Bridge tile forum and read what he has discovered about DIYers in large.

                            Elaborate on this statement for us to avoid the effort of searching endlessly for who knows what.


                            To put it mildly,


                            Are you starting to feel a little left out of the mix if we as licensed professionals decide it's best to not be giving the ritual away?


                            You diss a cleanout but I've seen a million websites hacked like porky pig was pounding the keyboard.


                            And why should we be inclined to start a private forum you're recommending?


                            There's information in this business the general public doesn't need to know about, just like there's information in your business that follows the same confidentiality.

                            So what's the problem? You don't need to know the inner workings of the plumbing profession, you just need to know plumbing and that's it.
                            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Are we saying to much?

                              Originally posted by SteveA(MD) View Post
                              Point is, you are on the negative side of the DIY argument and I doubt that I can change your opinion. Perhaps you should make a visit to the John Bridge tile forum and read what he has discovered about DIYers in large.
                              Point is, this thread is about not having to butt heads with DIY'ers, posted in the "Professional Plumbing Discussion" Forum.
                              Yet we're obligated to debate our case with you, who feels a mislocated cleanout is symbolic of utter incompetence for my trade.
                              Indicating a DIY is better suited to perform our simple and mindless work.
                              Took ya long enough to notice the lil' err in my advanced program.
                              I'm ready for major software production now.
                              Last edited by DuckButter; 01-07-2008, 10:34 PM.

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