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  • #31
    Re: Are we saying to much?

    I dabble in a lot of forums, just reading mostly, post in one a lot. I am a plumber and remodeler have been a long long time. I find threads like these interesting.

    What you have to realize is these places are open because of counting hits and popularity. They become popular because of pro's getting irritated with DIYers, or the other way around, at times and making a simple thread about a simple issue go on for three or more pages.

    It always amazes me how many correct ways there can be to do some thing simple and "my way is always best". We don't get along with each other as "PRO's" at times, what do you want to do about that.

    Do you really think if you owned a forum you would want to end that? I don't really like a boring forum.

    This is my version of kick the dog and if I get to kick an irrational home owner once and a while all the better.

    Trade Secret: failed diyer makes the best customer, mad wife even better.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Are we saying to much?

      Originally posted by construct30 View Post
      Trade Secret: failed diyer makes the best customer, mad wife even better.

      You're terrible.
      Ain't it the truth though...

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Are we saying to much?

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        I believe you guys are putting too much into the importance of your "business secrets". I am fairly certain your customers do not frequent the site and even if they do the only reason to not want them to see what you post is you feel there is something wrong with it. Be up front and honest with your customer and there is nothing to worry about.

        Mark
        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        No but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

        Look all of you guys are talented and I believe it is important for you to have these discussions. However, when you feel you need to do it in private it gives a look of impropriety. When you charge a customer you need to charge them something which is fair to both of you. That does not mean to do it on the cheap it means to have real world costs and expenses figured out. If the customer decides they don't want to use you any more it will be their loss.

        Mark
        Originally posted by construct30 View Post
        I dabble in a lot of forums, just reading mostly, post in one a lot. I am a plumber and remodeler have been a long long time. I find threads like these interesting.

        What you have to realize is these places are open because of counting hits and popularity. They become popular because of pro's getting irritated with DIYers, or the other way around, at times and making a simple thread about a simple issue go on for three or more pages.

        It always amazes me how many correct ways there can be to do some thing simple and "my way is always best". We don't get along with each other as "PRO's" at times, what do you want to do about that.

        Do you really think if you owned a forum you would want to end that? I don't really like a boring forum.

        This is my version of kick the dog and if I get to kick an irrational home owner once and a while all the better.

        Trade Secret: failed diyer makes the best customer, mad wife even better.

        once again, i'm with mark on this one and the new guy

        welcome to the open ridgid forum and post here too

        the forum has been this way for the 3 years i've been here. i like change every now and then, but the forum is the forum because of the openness.

        we had our westcoast dinner and we invited anyone that wanted to come.

        all we got was a plumbercrack and we look forward to the next one

        i know i don't talk privately with everyone, but the ones i do, i enjoy it. i know i don't have much to hide as you've seen in zeljkas video.

        over the last couple of years we all have become more public, most regulars have real pictures up at 1 time or another. what are we trying to hide?

        i get a few private messages a week from new members that need a question answered. i try to answer them all, and usually ask the poster to post on the open forum too. this gives everyone a chance to chime in.

        if you see a need to go private, just get the phone number and put them on your fave 5.

        i like the way it's been and josh has been the best

        not up to anymore votes as we've already gone the vote thing the last time this came up a few months ago

        rick.


        there are things that are private and things that are public. the private stuff gets discussed in private. i doubt a pros only forum would be private

        this subject has come up a bunch lately. it seems to get knocked down and then reappears under a different heading.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Are we saying to much?

          I honestly don't understand the need for a private chat/forum. What does anyone have to hide, yet talk about in a private group style setting?

          My suggestion is to combine the "Ask The Plumbing Experts" heading along with the "Professional Plumbing Discussion" heading. I say call it the "General Plumbing Discussion".

          Think about it, Common Joe asks for advice under the "Ask The Plumbing Experts" heading. A bunch of us will usually chime in, ultimately making it a "Professional Plumbing Discussion".

          If we start thread that is too technical, Common Joe will just bypass the whole thread and We'll have it to ourselves anyway.

          I'm just tired of tabbing back and forth as I don't want to miss anything .

          I also would like to maybe see a "Business Techniques" or "Accounting" or some kind of heading related to business (bidding, estimating, marking up, invoicing, computer hardware/software, etc.)

          Tracy
          .

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Are we saying to much?

            I just realized I've been on this forum for a year now. I have got some really great help and advice from the wood guys and the plumbing guys alike. I am not a plumber, I don't try to do plumbing, and I respect plumbers for the amount of time effort and money they have put into their trade in order to make it.

            Believe me, I understand the frustration of people (DIY) thinking they can do what you do and that they just don't because they were smart enough to get a better line of work than you did. The fact is, carpenters have it the worst in the trades in this regard. Why? Because most people are afraid of electricity and poop so they are more likly to hire a sparky or plumber. Everybody thinks they can swing a hammer though. HD and the home and garden network and A&E only make this worse. I remember the commercial with the single mom using an $800 saw for her little DIY project etc. "You can do it, we can help"?

            Hell, there is even a DIY program for refacing cabinets with a six page instruction pamphlet available at the same counter where they hawk my services in this field. I looked at it and if I tried to do the work with they tools they suggest and in the way they describe it would look like ****, and I have been doing it for this for a while now. But, if you want to save some money just get out your trusty utility knife and scissors, forget about the laminate slitter, routers, sanders--don't even apply glue ma'am!

            Part of the revenge for this lack of respect has always been the blue collar mentality, AKA the yuppies can't do what we do and if they DID try to get their hands dirty they would fail like the wimps they truly are. Even if they are too stupid to know it. This is a good defense in a world that values a useless degree above years of experience actually PRODUCING and paying dues as well as taxes along the way. It should, and has been jealously guarded with jargon and secrecy.

            However, it's a new world with the internet and a million channels on TV and HD for that matter. You can't change it by having a private forum. It wouldn't keep one DIY from thinking they can DI Therselfs. All it would do is keep folks like me and OSC and others who really DO respect the knowledge and commitment of some of you guys from getting the benefit as fellow blue collar workers in a world that thinks we are all hammer-apes.

            I would not have got to see the thread on doing work for "friends" that quite honestly set me on a self-reflective trip I need to take. I thank you guys for that.

            I hope I don't get shut out.

            Eli

            PS I'm still scared of poop.
            A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Are we saying to much?

              LOL, well put....

              Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
              Believe me, I understand the frustration of people (DIY) thinking they can do what you do and that they just don't because they were smart enough to get a better line of work than you did. The fact is, carpenters have it the worst in the trades in this regard. Why? Because most people are afraid of electricity and poop so they are more likly to hire a sparky or plumber. Everybody thinks they can swing a hammer though. HD and the home and garden network and A&E only make this worse. I remember the commercial with the single mom using an $800 saw for her little DIY project etc. "You can do it, we can help"?
              This one paragraph alone illustrates a good point.
              How many individuals will come across this and become insulted?...perhaps comment on the way it was worded?
              Any thoughts AMDSteve?
              I have done countless remodels where the owner says "I used to work construction", or "I am an engineer, I draw up the plans for these all the time." and yet again there I am trying to get a vanity to look good on a wall thats 2" out of plumb, a tub to fit into an opening thats 59-3/4" wide, a pedastil with an enclosure thats 4 inches off center from where it was planned, floors with more, or less height than planned.
              To mention these things often gets adverse comments from those who may be insulted by them unintentionally.
              It directly affects the way we communicate here in the open...certain topics become pseudo taboo.
              Many threads die off over adverse reactions, this is what I meant when I used the word "language" on an earlier post in this thread.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Are we saying to much?

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                LOL, well put....



                This one paragraph alone illustrates a good point.
                How many individuals will come across this and become insulted?...perhaps comment on the way it was worded?
                Any thoughts AMDSteve?
                I have done countless remodels where the owner says "I used to work construction", or "I am an engineer, I draw up the plans for these all the time." and yet again there I am trying to get a vanity to look good on a wall thats 2" out of plumb, a tub to fit into an opening thats 59-3/4" wide, a pedastil with an enclosure thats 4 inches off center from where it was planned, floors with more, or less height than planned.
                To mention these things often gets adverse comments from those who may be insulted by them unintentionally.
                It directly affects the way we communicate here in the open...certain topics become pseudo taboo.
                Many threads die off over adverse reactions, this is what I meant when I used the word "language" on an earlier post in this thread.
                Did you find this insulting DB? I'm not certain that is your point, but I think my feeling is very, VERY clear in this post when taken in it's entirety. The poop comment is about the general lack of respect and perspective from SOME homeowners. I think for those not intent on getting insulted at every opportunity, that is clear also.

                I'm not about to be overly concerned with those who have such thin skins and I really don't think that anyone has the right to be coddled. Anyone who is scared off this thread by these words better get a spine--the internet is not PC in general, but this site is about as good as it gets.

                I really doubt too many carpenters or remodelers will be insulted or surprised hearing that you have to work around previous hack work from any or all trades. We all do. So what? I don't take it as a swipe against me or my trade, just the person who did the work you are describing. You should see the pipe work I just dealt with taking out a sink cabinet in Oakland. Utter crap. You know what else was crap in that kitchen? EVERYTHING. The electrical, the counter-top, the floor, the cabinets, the paint. I did about two full days extra work (unpaid, I am on straight percentage) to make sure that everything I touched was beautiful. Because I care, maybe too much.

                Are we on the same page?

                Eli
                A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Are we saying to much?

                  Who here remembers the Peerless faucet ad on tv? Basically it said that anyone can install it with no tools needed. Then all the diy'ers that bought them, could'nt get the old faucet off (no basin wrench) or if they did the new faucet would'nt connect to anything other that 3/8 compression adaptors, so if the old faucet was piped 1/2" straight up it was a no go. Gawd what a disaster. Seen the accordian flex P and S traps? How about the latest gadget. It's a 1 1/2 P trap, with an boca vent all attached to the crown. Sweet, Sweet, Sweet.

                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Are we saying to much?

                    Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                    Are we on the same page?

                    Eli
                    100% same page.
                    Not even slightly insulted..I FULLY agree with what you say regarding carpentry taking the worst hit...and elaborated on my not so pleasant experiences hence.
                    Your dialogue was exemplary of my point...very often a mention might be made on any given thread relative to frustrations you just sited...defensive comments come out of nowhere from, say, software engineers, or homeowners and we're the bad guys for our views.
                    You personally know firsthand the frustration of listening to the guys at HD explain "how to" to as you pass by...fully knowing it's a corporate driven smoke and mirrors scenario to boost sales at the inevitable expense of the homeowner.
                    The grass is always greener, till ya hafta mow it.
                    It's universal...All of us underestimate the difficulty in other trades or careers...heck, I learned a bit about programming thinking it might be something to look into when my back or knee's go..all to discover learning latin back in school was easier.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Are we saying to much?

                      Not going to backtrack on pushing this topic but I want to make sure my intentions are clear. I never wanted to isolate us from everyone else by having our own section. I simply wanted a place where we could talk business, that's all. There would be all the other sections but we could have this one place to talk amongst ourselves. This would include members like Garager, etc. He would be a great asset because as a GC he could maybe tell us things he hates about us as far as; meeting deadlines, expectations, how to improve communications, contract forms; just basically telling us how things look on the other side. I wasn't thinking solely of the plumbers although we are the majority here, I was thinking of the entire construction trade.

                      There is a potential danger amongst talking business on the forum. I'll take flat rate for example. A member is reading one of the many flat rate vs. TM threads and they'll think that flat raters are escaped convicts. This is not imagined, I've already had 2 people ask me how I charge and when asking why, they said flat rate is a rip off because they learned that on the internet, I didn't ask where on the net. I've learned that when in a serious disagreement with someone, take it behind closed doors. AdamW is right, we need to PM our arguements but we don't, it seems to be the Ridgid forum nature and 90% of us are guilty of this. What people see in these arguements are 2 or more "professionals" going at it. This makes us lose credability. Knowing this, I should be more mature here but everyone has their faults in life as do I.

                      The last thing I'll say(yeah right, we've all heard that before from me) is that by having a forum, there's a written record of what was said. I've gone back and read threads because I forgot some small detail and very few comprehend everything the first time something is read. I think I've asked Greg and Rick 3 or 4 times which business program they use. Moot point but can be applied elsewhere.

                      My (My soapbox is over).
                      Buy cheap, buy twice.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Are we saying to much?

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        LOL, well put....



                        This one paragraph alone illustrates a good point.
                        How many individuals will come across this and become insulted?...perhaps comment on the way it was worded?
                        Any thoughts AMDSteve?
                        I have done countless remodels where the owner says "I used to work construction", or "I am an engineer, I draw up the plans for these all the time." and yet again there I am trying to get a vanity to look good on a wall thats 2" out of plumb, a tub to fit into an opening thats 59-3/4" wide, a pedastil with an enclosure thats 4 inches off center from where it was planned, floors with more, or less height than planned.
                        To mention these things often gets adverse comments from those who may be insulted by them unintentionally.
                        It directly affects the way we communicate here in the open...certain topics become pseudo taboo.
                        Many threads die off over adverse reactions, this is what I meant when I used the word "language" on an earlier post in this thread.
                        Yea, sure. I'll bite. Depends who you think is here reading the RIDGID tools forum. I would bet that most of the people who use this forum have an affinity for RIDGID tools and not just here for plumbing or woodworking advise. I doubt that there would be many that would be insulted by the above words.
                        I'm certainly not.

                        Look, there are a lot of us DIYers out here that are very mechanically inclined. I'm not about to say my profession is any better than your degree or not. I simply chose my profession because I have a fascination with computers and a pension for problem solving. I like doing simple plumbing, I like doing simple electrical, and I like doing carpentry. And from a simple economical viewpoint if ya'll think I'm going to call a tradesman for a small job in to switch out a couple of wall outlets, or fix a sink, or move a wall (drywall included), your nuts.

                        But back on topic...airing your laundry to the public may be a good thing perhaps it will keep less capable people who happen to trip upon our happy little forum from getting in over their head. And if they are in over their head isn't that just another business opportunity waiting?

                        And for what it's worth, my house was built by professionals. There isn't a room in it even close to having square corners. I'm glad I learned how to cope molding
                        “If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Are we saying to much?

                          Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                          Did you find this insulting DB? I'm not certain that is your point, but I think my feeling is very, VERY clear in this post when taken in it's entirety. The poop comment is about the general lack of respect and perspective from SOME homeowners. I think for those not intent on getting insulted at every opportunity, that is clear also.

                          I'm not about to be overly concerned with those who have such thin skins and I really don't think that anyone has the right to be coddled. Anyone who is scared off this thread by these words better get a spine--the internet is not PC in general, but this site is about as good as it gets.

                          I really doubt too many carpenters or remodelers will be insulted or surprised hearing that you have to work around previous hack work from any or all trades. We all do. So what? I don't take it as a swipe against me or my trade, just the person who did the work you are describing. You should see the pipe work I just dealt with taking out a sink cabinet in Oakland. Utter crap. You know what else was crap in that kitchen? EVERYTHING. The electrical, the counter-top, the floor, the cabinets, the paint. I did about two full days extra work (unpaid, I am on straight percentage) to make sure that everything I touched was beautiful. Because I care, maybe too much.

                          Are we on the same page?

                          Eli
                          Now this was a comment of beauty. I see the very same thing in my industry.
                          “If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Are we saying to much?

                            Steve(MD),
                            There are more people looking to cheat than you think.Nothing that I am afraid of taking business away from me.But still have to laugh(inside of couse) when I get to make the comment "Oh,you did your own tile".Not everyone has the skills they think.Many times I've had a person say they could do the project they have hired me to do.I am very blunt with someone who comments on thinking they even are close to understanding the full scope of the trade/trades.Sorry about your butchers.I see their work almost everyday,they could not touch the skills that most of the members here exercise.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Are we saying to much?

                              "...It's a 1 1/2 P trap, with an boca vent all attached to the crown. ..."

                              Crown vents are not allowed here.
                              "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                              https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Are we saying to much?

                                Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                                "...It's a 1 1/2 P trap, with an boca vent all attached to the crown. ..."

                                Crown vents are not allowed here.


                                Same here
                                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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