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  • #46
    Re: Are we saying to much?

    Far as I know they're not allowed anywhere, but that does'nt stop home depot from selling them. The point I was trying to make is that the average diy'er is tempted to buy and try all sorts of things that either don't work, or are not allowed by code. Which is one more reason to leave things you don't know about, to professionals. I've been at this for going on 37 years now. I am a licensed, trained professional. Though I think I just might be able to perform brain surgery, I'm not likely to give it a try in the near future. Maybe rocket science. I read a bit about rockets once..
    sigpic

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    • #47
      Re: Are we saying to much?

      Steve, nothing would change on the open forum.
      In fact Josh caught the potential err in making this topic open discussion.
      Having an unlisted private forum would be like you having a closed door discussion with your employee's, co-workers, or boss in relation to your work.
      Whether it happened or not, you likely wouldn't know.

      Not all DIY requests are unreasonable, but the ones where maybe the landlord wants to install a gas furnace or boiler your son or daughter rent from while in college might be, when you pay through the nose for their rent.
      in fact this topic has just about no relation to the DIY forum, this is about a seperate one for us in addition.
      This topic was opened as a discussion on pro's and con's for those of us who work in the trades...the irony being that anyone who feels compelled can interject with their dissention.
      Again, hook us up with a link to your favorite online forum...let us hop in for a look see...I'd like some advice on whether C++, Java, C#, .NET or other programming language is the way to go once my knee's are junk....there are a plethora of free online tutorials, I'll make a small fortune.
      By the way, I like AMD also, good chip.
      Last edited by DuckButter; 01-08-2008, 09:11 PM.

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      • #48
        Re: Are we saying to much?

        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
        I am a licensed, trained professional. Though I think I just might be able to perform brain surgery, I'm not likely to give it a try in the near future.
        Discount lobotomy?
        I could use one...

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        • #49
          Re: Are we saying to much?

          I don't care who reads what I say I tell anybody who wants to try a job for themselves one thing."If ANYTHING ever happens because of what you do(or tried) especially when property damage or injury/death occurs to a person.I doesn't matter how many years later...you be hung from the highest tree !!">heck I heard of a story where a tiny leak under a house caused MOLD and the plumber was SUED and lost.I also heard of where a plumber turned up a t-stat for a lady(after she asked him to)....her kid got scalded and he was slapped down by a lawyer! A untrained person is asking for a miracle to try it by themselves!! also because if NOT REGISTERED or INSTALLED PROPERLY guess what????WARRANTY ON UNIT IS VOID also.....ask and look in the installation manuel from mfg.I do things myself in my home but If it involves FIRE/WATER/gas LEAVE IT TO THE PRO

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          • #50
            Re: Are we saying to much?

            "I read a bit about rockets once.."

            But you come in contact with all kinds of brains with various characteristics, distinctions, and peculiarities every day; way more contact with brains than you do rockets I'd wager; so maybe you ARE qualified to perform brain surgery after all?
            "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

            https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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            • #51
              Re: Are we saying to much?

              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
              Steve, nothing would change on the open forum.
              In fact Josh caught the potential err in making this topic open discussion.
              Having an unlisted private forum would be like you having a closed door discussion with your employee's, co-workers, or boss in relation to your work.
              Whether it happened or not, you likely wouldn't know.

              Not all DIY requests are unreasonable, but the ones where maybe the landlord wants to install a gas furnace or boiler your son or daughter rent from while in college might be, when you pay through the nose for their rent.
              in fact this topic has just about no relation to the DIY forum, this is about a seperate one for us in addition.
              This topic was opened as a discussion on pro's and con's for those of us who work in the trades...the irony being that anyone who feels compelled can interject with their dissention.
              Again, hook us up with a link to your favorite online forum...let us hop in for a look see...I'd like some advice on whether C++, Java, C#, .NET or other programming language is the way to go once my knee's are junk....there are a plethora of free online tutorials, I'll make a small fortune.
              By the way, I like AMD also, good chip.
              There are so many professionals out there willing to spill the beans on all manner of things (non proprietary trade secrets, business process, billing methods, etc) that it may well be kinda of pointless for the relative small group here to have an isolated forum here. That is really the point I am trying to make. And from a personal stance (an anecdotal example if you will), perhaps, I would like to understand why I was billed the way I was, or why a job was done in a certain manner and not just what kind of glue to use when connecting PVC to ABS. And maybe being enlightened in some of the day to day issues you guys see may actually dispel some of the mysticism and distrust and replace it with understanding. And also let me pass this by you, perhaps the things I can learn about the trades (pros and cons) may help me steer my son into a trade if he chooses not to chase a degree or join the Army as I did.

              As odd as it may appear to you, I actually do not belong to any on-line forums dealing with my profession. As much as I like 'em I'm in front of these damn boxes all day long. It would be like you coming home every night and fixing the toilet in your house. There are an army of programmers writing software for free 24 hours a day (and doing a damn good job of it - just look at the Linux operating system) I'll let them take of it. I'll be here trying to learn something new.
              “If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine

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              • #52
                Re: Are we saying to much?

                Steve, read me, I'll say it again.
                SEPERATE forum...nothing removed here...same ole, same ole.
                I have a sneaking suspicion the "top secret" venue would be relatively boring.

                Also, though I may have sounded sarcastic about the programming, I wasn't.
                I'd seriously considered the possibility of learning it as a potential backup, when I first learned my back wasn't supposed to be doing this for a living.
                Got a little acquainted with C++, generic algorythms, STL, polymorphism, classes, objects...yadda yadda yadda.
                Then Mr Gates finally spews forth with C# to over-run the C++ world with his newest "J++" type scheme, meaning more dependance on microsoft, yet again.
                Leaving anyone looking around with even more confusing questions and options to attempt to sift through as for what the future brings....at least thats what it appeared to look like to me.

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                • #53
                  Re: Are we saying to much?

                  Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                  Did you find this insulting DB? I'm not certain that is your point, but I think my feeling is very, VERY clear in this post when taken in it's entirety. The poop comment is about the general lack of respect and perspective from SOME homeowners. I think for those not intent on getting insulted at every opportunity, that is clear also.

                  I'm not about to be overly concerned with those who have such thin skins and I really don't think that anyone has the right to be coddled. Anyone who is scared off this thread by these words better get a spine--the internet is not PC in general, but this site is about as good as it gets.

                  I really doubt too many carpenters or remodelers will be insulted or surprised hearing that you have to work around previous hack work from any or all trades. We all do. So what? I don't take it as a swipe against me or my trade, just the person who did the work you are describing. You should see the pipe work I just dealt with taking out a sink cabinet in Oakland. Utter crap. You know what else was crap in that kitchen? EVERYTHING. The electrical, the counter-top, the floor, the cabinets, the paint. I did about two full days extra work (unpaid, I am on straight percentage) to make sure that everything I touched was beautiful. Because I care, maybe too much.

                  Are we on the same page?

                  Eli
                  Good words WOODENSTICKERS.



                  I missed this post before I posted to Steve.
                  Both you and DB reflect many of my concerns.

                  This is turning into a good thread.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Are we saying to much?

                    after speaking to ben tonight

                    why not use the chat room and save it to your computer. typically everything is erased when you close, but i would think there is a way to save it for future use. or copy and paste.

                    also the chat allows for 1 on 1 or group. you can invite who you want onto a private chat. no one else can see it. this has been available to us since the chat was first opened.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

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                    • #55
                      Re: Are we saying to much?

                      Are we saying to much not at all let all the DYI`s in to our forum it is better than sex look at all the money we make when they go to the plumbing store on weekends to do that plumbing job at home and when they stuff up they call the plumber in to fix it and we take their money and there pride as their wife looks on in totall dismay.

                      Regards
                      Tony

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                      • #56
                        Re: Are we saying to much?

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        after speaking to ben tonight
                        I'm sure that everyone who knows Rick can understand how difficult getting a word in that conversation was. I got about 5 words in, maybe 10 if I was lucky. Joey, you're a strong woman and and true testament to patience. Either that or you don't say much and let Rick do the talking.
                        Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Are we saying to much?

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          after speaking to ben tonight

                          why not use the chat room and save it to your computer. typically everything is erased when you close, but i would think there is a way to save it for future use. or copy and paste.

                          also the chat allows for 1 on 1 or group. you can invite who you want onto a private chat. no one else can see it. this has been available to us since the chat was first opened.

                          rick.
                          Picture this...you had a tough customer.
                          One of those customers that picked you apart, conveniently read into what other "plumbers" have said to use it as a weapon against you...then attempts to drive your price down after job completion.
                          The whole experience leaves you feeling doubtful, angry and questioning the points the customer made that they claim other "plumbers" told them.
                          You get home at 1pm...nobody around, but you really want to vent and get a little affirmation after such a confrontational experience.
                          The threads title might be something like "I know the customer is playing me, but wanted honest input from you guys..."
                          You go back out to another job, get home @ 5 and the third post in is a homeowner who derails the thread with how your prices are too high, or your technique is wrong and another member reacts to that post.
                          The thread then becomes a slugfest over how another member doesn't know what he's talking about, or how plumbers are rip-offs stated by individuals who've never priced a threading machine, torch, pipe wrenches, snakes, camera's, liability insurance, self employment tax...the list is almost endless.
                          Now the thread takes a new turn, other members feel it's in the best interest of the forum to pacify the situation by soothing the angry homeowner, which IS in the best interest of an open Ridgid forum.

                          Another way to view this, some doctors might seem cold, indifferent...they have to.
                          They need to keep emotional involvment out of their judgement for the best interest of the patient.
                          When two doctors discuss this, a patient might feel it's an affront to be that way and interupt with objection...so they don't have these discussions in front of patients.
                          We aren't doctors..LOL...gawd I hope not...but there is a similar point here, certain complicated topics can be misconstrued and create adverse reactions from those who may not understand.
                          One on one is what we do now, but that 1pm scenario is where I'm going...wouldn't it be nice to openly post a few questions and get honest input from peers you trust and relate to without concern for angry, or misconstrued reactions?
                          Last edited by DuckButter; 01-09-2008, 12:05 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Are we saying to much?

                            Something to ponder....This is Ridgid's forum. It has 16050 members. How many different "private" sections do you suppose they would have to set up if all the different groups (trades or whatever) wanted their own? Or, how many members (and customers) would they lose if they catered to only a few?

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                            • #59
                              Re: Are we saying to much?

                              Duck,

                              I hear where you're coming from but consider at the same time we should not respond to or become combative over posts made by those who should not be posting in the pro forum to begin with. If you post you had a customer who gave you a bad time I feel it would be appropreate for a GC on the forum to step in and ad advise but not a soccer mom who stopped by to find a saw for her husband. As grown ups we can choose which posts to reply to and which posts to ignore.

                              My suggest for the short term is we all try to monitor ourselves in the pro forum for a bit and see when/if there is a problem and what we do about it. That also means we should refrain from starting non professional related threads in the professional forum. We as a collective group need to start using the forum as it was intended.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                              • #60
                                Re: Are we saying to much?

                                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                                Duck,

                                I hear where you're coming from but consider at the same time we should not respond to or become combative over posts made by those who should not be posting in the pro forum to begin with. If you post you had a customer who gave you a bad time I feel it would be appropreate for a GC on the forum to step in and ad advise but not a soccer mom who stopped by to find a saw for her husband. As grown ups we can choose which posts to reply to and which posts to ignore.

                                My suggest for the short term is we all try to monitor ourselves in the pro forum for a bit and see when/if there is a problem and what we do about it. That also means we should refrain from starting non professional related threads in the professional forum. We as a collective group need to start using the forum as it was intended.

                                Mark
                                I agree, however, history has shown us a few things.
                                Another point of reason to the topic.
                                Individual member disagreements over subjects that may arouse a bit of passionate debate.
                                I think almost all of us have participated in a little bit of dispute at one time or another.
                                As grownups, yes, we are supposed to know when to back away...however an example of one newer member coming here and spouting off about prices aroused quite a conundrum not so long ago.
                                The grownups debated, quite passionately, to the point it became swapping of insult, accusation, even name calling.
                                I'd seen words used like "flat rape" used ...though in humor, not great for someone who legitimately charges via flat rate with a reasonable list of set prices who may take offense at the possibility that euphamism could become a general phrase potentially seen by his customers here.
                                The discussion was aroused over pricing...personally I felt it wasn't suitable for the general public...I did the grownup thing and kept relatively quiet through it's course.
                                Thoughts, idea's, debates and any form of general communication occur at a much faster and more productive rate when done collectively.
                                Friction is often par for the course in those discussions, even with grownups.
                                From those debates comes learning.
                                The greater the lesson, the often more passion within the debate.
                                Some of them, imo...ought maybe not happen out in the open...maybe.

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