Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Increasing my prices.

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: Found this out today

    Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
    No, the price should always be discussed beforehand...wether hourly or flat-rate. Its the law. Without discussing price, there is no binding contract.

    So if the customer trusts you to treat them fairly without paperwork or contractual price, the plumber can literally rape the customer at their heart's desire.

    Is that your method of operation, the ability to screw if the customer doesn't make that legal transaction legal?
    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Found this out today

      Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
      So if the customer trusts you to treat them fairly without paperwork or contractual price, the plumber can literally rape the customer at their heart's desire.

      Is that your method of operation, the ability to screw if the customer doesn't make that legal transaction legal?
      You don't seem to unerstand. The contract is binding to BOTH parties. If the plumber isn't upfront about his prices, then the customer is not obligated to pay ANYTHING AT ALL! And if there is nothing in writing, then the plumber will have a hard time getting paid.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Found this out today

        Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
        If I hear of a plumber gouging a customer for $749 to replace a kitchen sink faucet again in my area....I'll spend a few grand to expose his exploitation of customers trusting plumbers to be reasonable in charging.
        First, what kind of faucet was this?
        There are some very high end, pricey gadgets on the market.
        If thats for a standard Delta, Moen, Am standrd...dayum...I'm freaking cheap!
        Are you absolutely certain thats all the work he did?
        No soldering new stops?...water filter?...drainage repairs?
        Are you absolutely certain you got the WHOLE story?
        Finally, I'd leave it alone...prices like this ensure you more business.
        Open adversity might get your tires slashed (literally or proverbially)...a guy creepy enough to bill someone this much for maybe 1 or 1-1/2 hours (I figure around $550 - $600 after stock) is capable of more creepy stuff...imo.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Found this out today

          Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
          So if the customer trusts you to treat them fairly without paperwork or contractual price, the plumber can literally rape the customer at their heart's desire.
          If there is no paperwork or at least verbal contractual price, then there is NO business transaction. Technically, the plumber just did work for free.
          Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Increasing my prices.

            This is kind of a catch-22. We all hate the HO who calls a half a dozen plumbers shopping costs but can you blame them with all of the variations in billing amounts? The HO is a lay person and may not know the going price for work so to say we agreed on a price when the HO is clueless isn't really fair.

            I don't have a problem with a plumber charging $749 to install a kitchen faucet on flat-rate as long as he tells the HO he is being billed 4-hours at $150 per hour plus $149 for the faucet. Then when the plumber is done whether it took him a half hour or six hours the HO knows what he paid for.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Increasing my prices.

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              This is kind of a catch-22. We all hate the HO who calls a half a dozen plumbers shopping costs but can you blame them with all of the variations in billing amounts? The HO is a lay person and may not know the going price for work so to say we agreed on a price when the HO is clueless isn't really fair.

              I don't have a problem with a plumber charging $749 to install a kitchen faucet on flat-rate as long as he tells the HO he is being billed 4-hours at $150 per hour plus $149 for the faucet. Then when the plumber is done whether it took him a half hour or six hours the HO knows what he paid for.

              Mark
              I agree. Well put.
              Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Found this out today

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                First, what kind of faucet was this?
                There are some very high end, pricey gadgets on the market.
                If thats for a standard Delta, Moen, Am standrd...dayum...I'm freaking cheap!
                Are you absolutely certain thats all the work he did?
                No soldering new stops?...water filter?...drainage repairs?
                Are you absolutely certain you got the WHOLE story?
                Finally, I'd leave it alone...prices like this ensure you more business.
                Open adversity might get your tires slashed (literally or proverbially)...a guy creepy enough to bill someone this much for maybe 1 or 1-1/2 hours (I figure around $550 - $600 after stock) is capable of more creepy stuff...imo.

                LOL!! I'm glad you responded DB because I figured someone sooner or later would ask me the specifics.

                Service guy, you're painting yourself into a corner real quick condoning the actions of a thief, not a plumber. You're hedging on specifics that you know to a consumer is a he said/she said oral contract that any plumber can curtail in print a justification to hammer a pounding. At some point you have to think on behalf of the ignorance of your customer, protect them as you would HOPE someone would have the gumption to protect you if you wasn't aware that your willingness to trust leaves you vulnerable.


                The first job was at a rental property, wall mount 8" center kitchen sink faucet he bought at Doit Hardware for $21 just like I bought 3 others in the same building.

                How do I know this? Because this guy didn't "charge" to clean up, instead he left the box the old faucet in the bottom of this metal sink base.

                He used galvanized close nipples to install the new faucet into the wall,

                He knew that cheap faucet has extremely soft rubber washers in them and that it's a matter of months, not years those go bad. What do you expect for a $21 faucet????

                I took the faucet off the wall for a slight leak on the right side, saw the galvanized nipples already trying to carmelize/restrict their original opening and used BRASS like a plumber who gives a **** should.

                I rebuilt this nearly new faucet, used those hard composition washers that wear like iron and won't have me back like a black rubber washer will.

                The stops were those long stemmed stop valves that were leaking at the packings. Didn't hurt anything being a steel base but of course, it's improper.

                This second faucet two cities north is a Delta 400 kitchen sink faucet. That's it. At the most for cost to you and me, $79 and that's a stretch at best.

                I have a copy of the receipt for the first one, the guy I'm working for friday told me I could have a copy of the receipt and the box/old faucet because apparently $700+ dollars isn't enough for cleanup/haul away for a 4 pound faucet.


                I've got the bird's eye view to all of this because I'm witnessing the product installed, the garbage left behind and the outrageous bill that he threatens to collect on......which they pay given what they feel is limited choices not to.


                He operates like he knows how to do it quite well, I want to spoil his fun at this point with the welcoming wagon of consumers I stand to gain in his pitfall, finally.

                Plumbers shouldn't be classified as car salesman blowing people's heads off their shoulders trying to get top dollar for a product or service, playing the coulda shoulda woulda game.

                Ignorance is bliss of the laws and rules but if your moral turpitude sinks this low to play the game, you'll have enemies like me crawling the same ground.
                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Increasing my prices.

                  I am not condoning his actions.
                  Its all a simple matter of business law. If these laws were broken, then the customer shouldn't have to pay.
                  From what you desribed, it sounds like the customer was taken advantage of. They may or may not have a case depending on how the transaction occurred.

                  On a personal level, I agree with you Dunbar. But this is a legal issue, and your original post didn't mention any specifics. You just stated you were mad that a competitor was charging more than you felt is justified.
                  Last edited by Service Guy; 02-25-2008, 05:46 PM.
                  Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Increasing my prices.

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    This is kind of a catch-22. We all hate the HO who calls a half a dozen plumbers shopping costs but can you blame them with all of the variations in billing amounts? The HO is a lay person and may not know the going price for work so to say we agreed on a price when the HO is clueless isn't really fair.

                    I don't have a problem with a plumber charging $749 to install a kitchen faucet on flat-rate as long as he tells the HO he is being billed 4-hours at $150 per hour plus $149 for the faucet. Then when the plumber is done whether it took him a half hour or six hours the HO knows what he paid for.

                    Mark
                    Perfect.
                    There are extremes to both sides.
                    When I'd just started out, I'd get excited over a call...at one point I had a fella working me off another plumber to replace a silcock...consecutively calling me, then him, then me.
                    He called me back one last time to tell me the other guy was willing to do it for $65..WITH stock.
                    The other fella now has a regular who will always expect cheap.

                    Experiences like this started to give me a jaded outlook.
                    Experiences like a $749 KS faucet replace will have the same effect on homeowners.

                    There are the homeowners that work plumbers over like a snake oil salesman...only to complain the work was inadequate or sloppy once they find some hack willing to do it at their price.
                    Of course, they usually seem to forget the fact that they had 15 estimates for a water heater before settling for the lowest bid when the wetspot appears on the floor 3 months later.
                    Seems like the same people repeatedly make that same mistake over and over and over again.
                    Reasonable prices, reasonable work...
                    I work my tail off when I get a reasonable customer.
                    Got a call just today about a water heater, first sentence she asked was about how much I charge.
                    5 minutes later...
                    Not one question about what heater I use, what warranty, or how quickly I could get there...she was only concerned with price.
                    If she were in an area where she might be financially challenged I'd understand.
                    This woman lives in one of the highest income per capita towns in my state...I overbid by $300, she rushed me off the phone.

                    IF my estimation of her had been wrong, then I'd have cut the price on the job...I've done it before when I saw a customer I'd like repeat business from and knew my price was high.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Increasing my prices.

                      Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                      I am not condoning his actions.
                      Its all a simple matter of business law. If these laws were broken, then the customer shouldn't have to pay.

                      Service Guy,


                      Black and white, simple huh?


                      Would you happen to be the insurance guy who shows up after a tornado that blows a whole town to pieces, people lose everything of their most valued posessions

                      and hover over the damage with your clipboard and say

                      "Sorry, but you didn't buy enough coverage. I'm sorry but I wish I could do something for you."


                      There's a reality to my bringing this discussion to light. I see people pay triple to 5 times the market average in my area and I call it theft by deception, completely.

                      That's why there's KARMA, there's an implied thought process that when you prey on one's vulnerabilities, it will come back to you as payback. I truly believe this.


                      If you want to be a respectable plumber, don't drill into the community that you can't be trusted without the legal representation.


                      There are still some of us out there that can be trusted on a handshake or nod of the head without having to tell the world how we stole from them.


                      DB I had a customer squawk at me for wanting $115 for a Delta PB cartridge replacement on a tub/shower faucet this morning. There is a possible chance the wife was calling behind the husband's back because he couldn't fix it. A call to him or either my price probably got him either someone cheaper or the discipline to honor the wife's repeated asking. 20 minutes and that's dragging it, I always give them advice and answers to anything they want because they paid for the hour, not the task. I'll have them ask questions till they stop, ask me to leave.

                      Got a guy I have to call back that wants a price on a tankless install; damn near every one of them have not a clue what all is involved in doing the conversion on those from a tank. You want it?

                      I already know he's going to freak out with the price.....if it was new construction, a lot easier but conversions involve time and lots of it. They never believe me that I have to use specific flue piping for the application. They want to use the PVC (NOT) or into a chimney which isn't a option.
                      Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 02-25-2008, 06:02 PM.
                      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Increasing my prices.

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        Got a call just today about a water heater, first sentence she asked was about how much I charge.
                        5 minutes later...
                        Not one question about what heater I use, what warranty, or how quickly I could get there...she was only concerned with price.
                        I hate those calls too.

                        Me: "Hello, this is So-and-So Plumbing, how can I help you?"

                        H.O.: "Yes, how much do you charge for a water heater?"


                        No name mentioned, no courtesy, just price-shopping.
                        Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Increasing my prices.

                          I understand where you're coming from Dunbar. If you feel its your responsibility to save the homeowners from this corrupt thief of a plumber, then go right ahead.
                          Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Found this out today

                            Dunbar,
                            The details come down to worse case scenario...this guy's a shyster.
                            $750 for a cheesy hardware store faucet, connected with galvy....ouch.
                            I'd advise the customer to look into small claims, using the fact that he used illegal steel connections on potable (assuming your code states such).
                            I still say you have nothing to gain in waging open war with him...you likely have alot more to lose than him.
                            His reputation is what will sink his ship...float yours.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Increasing my prices.

                              Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                              Got a guy I have to call back that wants a price on a tankless install; damn near every one of them have not a clue what all is involved in doing the conversion on those from a tank. You want it?

                              I already know he's going to freak out with the price.....if it was new construction, a lot easier but conversions involve time and lots of it. They never believe me that I have to use specific flue piping for the application. They want to use the PVC (NOT) or into a chimney which isn't a option.
                              Get a local price for a Rinnai...the vents are much less than others, unit is reliable and surprisingly cheap by comparison.
                              You either take this job or I'm gonna haunt you for the next 6 months!
                              LOL...Tankless's aren't all that bad....just mindful to size them right, don't just assume the openly stated rating is what will work mid january...the ratings openly stated are usually best case scenario at a 40 or 50 degree temp rise.(70 incoming water temp)
                              I work with customers...hit them hard with the price to get it out of the way & in the open.
                              Then we grab a summer gas bill...rough it by scraping 30% off that and add up how long it takes to make back the money.
                              It usually breaks close to even within 10 years...they generally have to want the tankless for the endless hot water feature, not quite so much for immediate savings.
                              The feds are still offering the $300 tax credit (I think...haven't done one yet this year), add that into the math.
                              Last edited by DuckButter; 02-25-2008, 06:22 PM. Reason: spelling, spelling, spelling

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Found this out today

                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                Dunbar,
                                The details come down to worse case scenario...this guy's a shyster.
                                $750 for a cheesy hardware store faucet, connected with galvy....ouch.
                                I'd advise the customer to look into small claims, using the fact that he used illegal steel connections on potable (assuming your code states such).
                                I still say you have nothing to gain in waging open war with him...you likely have alot more to lose than him.
                                His reputation is what will sink his ship...float yours.

                                This guy has been in business for years, last of the old generation plumbers. He's ripped off so many people that I think he has to gouge as he's a dog that only eats randomly, not regularly. That evens the score.


                                That first customer I did work for......netted almost 8 grand of work from them. This second guy I'm sure held me as "commendable" for trying to help him out over the phone last friday. That was a payback consideration on his end.

                                I've done work behind this guy on other occaisions but lately he's pushing the wire.

                                He'll continue unless he's stopped, my justification with what a little print on paper can help the ending. If you and I rip off a customer, you and I deserve public scrutiny; it's the public that employs us.


                                If the guy did what Mark implied to, given the customer the awareness to commit a number, wouldn't matter if the number was 5 grand.....it's the method that has me bent out of whack when a fellow plumber like myself is tarnishing my profession.

                                I couldn't do it to another person and justify the reason.
                                Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 02-25-2008, 06:26 PM.
                                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X