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To compromise, or stand pat?

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  • #31
    Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

    Then go get some service Greg! Stand firm on your price (if you know it's fair) and then let them go based on what all have said.

    Even if you part ways, customers often come back when they try out the new person and see their mess!

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

      The remodels or new construction we did were mostly large homes (10-12 bath). On many of them the owner had a designer and I believe the record on roughing in a master bath was five times before the slab was finally poured. Each time it was a complete change of plans so none of the old (new) stuff could be salvaged. On those projects we were strictly T&M which actually ended up cheaper for the owner as there was no contingency built in.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

        Yea, remodels kinda suck. I don't mind doing new construction, or service. But everyone on a remodel wants you to put a new coat of wax on a turd, but in the end it is still a turd, just a bit shinier. And then they look at you funny expecting something different.
        Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
          Greg, if I recall correct..you had another GC kick you to the curb maybe six months ago.

          This tells me one of two things..
          You're prices are high..or you have a good nature and GC's take advantage of it with bluffs.


          I DO know that taking 15% off your price twice over would have me questioning whether I could affrord to work at that rate.

          I understand it's 60% of your business, but you really need to crunch numbers and see what that leaves you...might not be worth fighting for in the longrun.

          Also, once you cut your price, it's permanent and he'll expect that from now on.

          I am baffled at that stupid 3 trade rule...it's an insane hobbling of our trade in your state.
          yes, called that Gc's bluff and havn't heard from him since, I know one thing is for sure, i'm not getting rich off of any of them. Another thing my wife told me tonight when i was talking with her about it, was me being too nice of guy. Even with the last contractor that bailed, everything was ok, but now the economy is just not looking good as far as the remodeling goes...Basicly working at their "ideal number" after everthing is said and done i think Id make wage, and if I wanted to make wage I would close shop and go work for someone else. Guess I need to stand up for myself, and the value of my company, and if they want to do it in house, I'll be there for the bail out, and if none's necessary, I will be all the more available for someone else.

          thank you all, my wife will be happy to know that the pros here agree with her. I need to charge for the service I provide and for the expreience i bring, if they don't want to pay my price, then someone else will.

          greg

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

            TRY ASKING YOUR MORGAGE BROKER TO DROP THEIR RATES 15--30%
            OR ASK THE GROCERY STORE OR DOCTORS OFFICE
            EXPLAIN THAT TO YOUR G/C
            AND WHILE CA. HAS THE 3 TRADE RULE HE STILL NEEDS A C-36 OR SUB. TO A C-36 IN ORDER TO BE LEGAL I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT FENCE
            JERRYMAC
            E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
            CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
            FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
            SINCE JAN. 1989

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

              Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
              Yea, remodels kinda suck. I don't mind doing new construction, or service. But everyone on a remodel wants you to put a new coat of wax on a turd, but in the end it is still a turd, just a bit shinier. And then they look at you funny expecting something different.
              Exacly what we expect from you.

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                The remodels or new construction we did were mostly large homes (10-12 bath). On many of them the owner had a designer and I believe the record on roughing in a master bath was five times before the slab was finally poured. Each time it was a complete change of plans so none of the old (new) stuff could be salvaged. On those projects we were strictly T&M which actually ended up cheaper for the owner as there was no contingency built in.

                Mark
                I think it would be hard,if not imposible for his general to sell T+M to a homeowner in these times.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                  I may offer T/M not to exceed my price, then I know I would be covered, It won't fly though, they want to have the costs nailed down. I have a phone meeting about it in the AM, and my position will be I can do it for my orig. price less the 15% but that I can't/won't do it for their price. i'll also let them know that I'll be there if something goes wrong on their install, for a fee of course!

                  Greg

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                    Too nice for me. But good luck.

                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                      I think it would be hard,if not imposible for his general to sell T+M to a homeowner in these times.
                      No doubt, it takes a certain clientele to do a $12,000,000 remodel on T&M. What was worst is some of the designers were getting paid 50% of the final cost for their services.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                        Tell them to kiss your @$$. LOL
                        Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                          Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
                          Tell them to kiss your @$$. LOL
                          Not my style.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                            Greg:
                            I hope this post by me will help you, because I have "been there, Done that."

                            Incase you have not seen my previous posts.

                            Rule #1:
                            "You’re a salesman first, and tradesman second."

                            Rule #2:
                            "Something of nothings is...........Nothing"

                            One of my first big military bids was literally awarded too me because I was half way out the door.

                            I designed engineered a military project years ago. I knew that this particular project was at the top of the DOD list of things to do. The design we did was of a high purity water treatment system for a critical plant operation. We made the system redundant. I emailed the bid specs to the GC. They called me into a meeting a few days later. I got told that my portion of the bid was too high and that I needed to cut out the Redundancy system if I wanted to be part of the bid.

                            Coming from a military family and understanding how the they work, I told the GC I would not remove any part of my system proposal. I thanked them for the opportunity, shook hands with everyone in the meeting and proceeded to walk out the door. I had the handle turned, and the door opened about 1/4 when the key person for the GC told me to stop. They would except my bid at face value. The end result the GC was awarded the contract and the D.O.D was very happy with what they got.

                            You must know your profit margin first. The only time I am willing to compromise a profit point is if we are attacking a project we have never done before. I call this a learning curve experience. If we break even on something we have never done before then that is a good investment for any future jobs.

                            Only you know your profit break even point. Under no circumstances should you compromise that unless you know it will make you additional monies in the future.

                            I will say that throwing all your eggs in one basket is not a good idea. This GC gives you 60% of your business. No wonder the S.O. B. is grinding you. Why because he knows he can. Believe me if he was ten or twenty percent this topic would not be discussed.

                            I would highly suggest that you start marketing your company to other GC’s.

                            Remember this golden rule, " A good salesman could sell refrigerators to Eskimos"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                              Originally posted by glkearns View Post
                              Not my style.
                              Not really mine either. However, I would feel insulted if someone asked me to drop my price by almost one-third. That is just a lose-lose situation. If you do they will feel that you have been robbing them on all of the work you did in the past. You will not feel good about the job, nor will they. Having the audacity to ask for that type of discount after you generously offered 15% is ridiculous. Unless of course your prices are way out of line with those in your area. Dropping your price by 30% means you just have to do 30% more work to make the same amount of money. Considering they are 60% of your work assumes approximately 24 hours a week are spent working for them. That computes to around 1200 hours a year. You will have to work an additional 360 hours to make the same annual income, plan on about 9 additional weeks of full-time work for that company per year to make the same amount of money. Ask any of them if they want to work pro-bono for over 2 months?
                              Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: To compromise, or stand pat?

                                Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
                                Greg:
                                I hope this post by me will help you, because I have "been there, Done that."

                                Incase you have not seen my previous posts.

                                Rule #1:
                                "You’re a salesman first, and tradesman second."

                                Rule #2:
                                "Something of nothings is...........Nothing"

                                One of my first big military bids was literally awarded too me because I was half way out the door.

                                I designed engineered a military project years ago. I knew that this particular project was at the top of the DOD list of things to do. The design we did was of a high purity water treatment system for a critical plant operation. We made the system redundant. I emailed the bid specs to the GC. They called me into a meeting a few days later. I got told that my portion of the bid was too high and that I needed to cut out the Redundancy system if I wanted to be part of the bid.

                                Coming from a military family and understanding how the they work, I told the GC I would not remove any part of my system proposal. I thanked them for the opportunity, shook hands with everyone in the meeting and proceeded to walk out the door. I had the handle turned, and the door opened about 1/4 when the key person for the GC told me to stop. They would except my bid at face value. The end result the GC was awarded the contract and the D.O.D was very happy with what they got.

                                You must know your profit margin first. The only time I am willing to compromise a profit point is if we are attacking a project we have never done before. I call this a learning curve experience. If we break even on something we have never done before then that is a good investment for any future jobs.

                                Only you know your profit break even point. Under no circumstances should you compromise that unless you know it will make you additional monies in the future.

                                I will say that throwing all your eggs in one basket is not a good idea. This GC gives you 60% of your business. No wonder the S.O. B. is grinding you. Why because he knows he can. Believe me if he was ten or twenty percent this topic would not be discussed.

                                I would highly suggest that you start marketing your company to other GC’s.

                                Remember this golden rule, " A good salesman could sell refrigerators to Eskimos"
                                I just had to say that this was a great post! If the GC KNOWS that he gives you most of his work, then he KNOWS he has the upper hand. In the future, he'll probably want you to cut costs again, and again, and again.

                                You can be a nice guy, but being nice doesn't pay the bills. People will take advantage of you if you are "too nice". It's just a fact of life. I know there are plenty of nice guys here on the forum, but they don't work for free.

                                Good luck to you
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