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  • #31
    Re: The $49 Drain Clean

    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
    You're right, and Jack has a very good point.
    Ben worked for a company that scammed folks, he was pushed to sell unecessary work regardless whether they needed it or not.
    He needs to know that not all selling is wrong.
    I personally have to admit I am very lacking here as well.
    I can even recall seeing potentially defective lines or drainage thats a clog waiting to happen and not said anything for fear of sounding like I was "selling" something.
    Quite frankly, I was wrong, it's my job description...to protect the health and sanitation of the public.

    GREAT thread Jack.

    I feel as if it is my responsibility to sell them something if it is needed. If I see a corroded fitting and do not mention it, how am I going to feel when weeks later I get a call that it broke and flooded their house while they where on vacation causing thousands of dollars of damage.
    Last edited by Devine Plumbing; 07-29-2008, 11:31 PM.
    Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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    • #32
      Re: The $49 Drain Clean

      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
      You're right, and Jack has a very good point.
      Ben worked for a company that scammed folks, he was pushed to sell unecessary work regardless whether they needed it or not.
      He needs to know that not all selling is wrong.
      I personally have to admit I am very lacking here as well.
      I can even recall seeing potentially defective lines or drainage thats a clog waiting to happen and not said anything for fear of sounding like I was "selling" something.
      Quite frankly, I was wrong, it's my job description...to protect the health and sanitation of the public.

      GREAT thread Jack.
      Short story, replaced a shower mixing valve when I worked at A1. While there I noticed the fill tube for the toilet was broke off and the customer had put a piece of sheetmetal over it so it didn't spray straight up. I offer to rebuild this toilet and he doesn't want it done, I think I offered to ebuild it for 60, that's how much I wanted to rebuild his toilet. Doesn't want it and I told his daughter about so she could remember to get this fixed.

      Now this couple was in their late 80's, the husband was blind and the wife was deaf and they lived in a 1920's era house that was beutiful, great shape. Extremely wonderful couple. 2 years later a friend asks me to come over to his girlfriend's house and look at a leaking toilet that caused some flood damage. I get there and it's the same house. Turned out my friend was dating his grandaughter. Someone had moved the precariously placed piece of sheetmetal and the water shot straight up and down the side of the tank. This was overnight and it ruined the entire 1st floor ceiling. The wife had just died and the husband looked like he was waiting to go with her, you could see it in his eyes. Now this happens which was totally preventable.

      Point of my depressing story is that I don't believe selling is criminal. But I'm gun shy because I've seen to many people in my area get taken advantage of. But if I do see a problem, it is addressed. Another thing, a high bbb rating holds no water with me. The company I worked for has been in business since 87 and they only had 2 complaints when it should've been in the hundreds.
      Buy cheap, buy twice.

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      • #33
        Re: The $49 Drain Clean

        I am in no way opposed to point out some thing to some one that I believe needs attention and is a serious potential problem, I have done it many a time, but I did not do some thing jsut to get in the door to do that and in many of the instances the things I pointed out were not in my interest to repair any way. (and I usaly gave them names of some one who specialize in that type of repair).

        I guess I aways felt I had more problems with these words,

        "while you are here, would you ...".

        you squeeze them in for a small job and they want to make a day out of your stay fixing ever thing under the sun, Of which you brought no supplies for or specialty tools for.
        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
        attributed to Samuel Johnson
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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        • #34
          Re: The $49 Drain Clean

          Originally posted by BHD View Post
          I am in no way opposed to point out some thing to some one that I believe needs attention and is a serious potential problem, I have done it many a time, but I did not do some thing jsut to get in the door to do that and in many of the instances the things I pointed out were not in my interest to repair any way. (and I usaly gave them names of some one who specialize in that type of repair).

          I guess I aways felt I had more problems with these words,

          "while you are here, would you ...".

          you squeeze them in for a small job and they want to make a day out of your stay fixing ever thing under the sun, Of which you brought no supplies for or specialty tools for.
          This is opposite of the way I look at it....
          I guess I aways felt I LOVED these words,

          "while you are here, would you ...".

          I schedule them for service and they want to make a day out of my stay fixing ever thing under the sun, Of which I always bring all the supplies and specialty tools I need on my service truck. This is great, because I will make maximum profit working all day and cut out all the driving and wasted fuel that comes from doing too many service calls/day.
          Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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          • #35
            Re: The $49 Drain Clean

            We had a minimum one hour charge. Sometimes a job takes 10-minutes. I always felt I was cheating the customer unless I offered to look at other problems.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: The $49 Drain Clean

              Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
              I feel as if it is my responsibility to sell them something if it is needed. If I see a corroded fitting and do not mention it, how am I going to feel when weeks later I get a call that it broke and flooded their house while they where on vacation causing thousands of dollars of damage.
              Oh yes, but first and foremost it is your responsibility to inform them you're not licensed, effectively uninsured and truly allow them to make an educated decision.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                Short story, replaced a shower mixing valve when I worked at A1. While there I noticed the fill tube for the toilet was broke off and the customer had put a piece of sheetmetal over it so it didn't spray straight up. I offer to rebuild this toilet and he doesn't want it done, I think I offered to ebuild it for 60, that's how much I wanted to rebuild his toilet. Doesn't want it and I told his daughter about so she could remember to get this fixed.

                Now this couple was in their late 80's, the husband was blind and the wife was deaf and they lived in a 1920's era house that was beutiful, great shape. Extremely wonderful couple. 2 years later a friend asks me to come over to his girlfriend's house and look at a leaking toilet that caused some flood damage. I get there and it's the same house. Turned out my friend was dating his grandaughter. Someone had moved the precariously placed piece of sheetmetal and the water shot straight up and down the side of the tank. This was overnight and it ruined the entire 1st floor ceiling. The wife had just died and the husband looked like he was waiting to go with her, you could see it in his eyes. Now this happens which was totally preventable.

                Point of my depressing story is that I don't believe selling is criminal. But I'm gun shy because I've seen to many people in my area get taken advantage of. But if I do see a problem, it is addressed. Another thing, a high bbb rating holds no water with me. The company I worked for has been in business since 87 and they only had 2 complaints when it should've been in the hundreds.
                I agree 100%...you know me well enough to know I have a conscience.
                I do think both you and I need to keep an open mind regarding one thing...too much of any extreme is a bad thing.

                I have a very old couple that call me exclusively for their plumbing...the reason is the very first time I went there I did a toilet replacement to a commfort height for the obvious reason.
                Their daughter was there...I pulled her off to the side and gave a list of a few things I could blatently see were very wrong...duct tape on a lav drain, both toilet flanges were rotting & visibly leaking in the basement as well as a few others.
                She confided that her father was an avid DIY'er throughout his life and stubborn about having any of it done right.

                Got a call from her a few months later...she decided to petition the other siblings to chip in and get it all fixed.
                She called me because I didn't dwell on it, I explained that most of it was going to leak and some already was...she appreciated the fact that I wasn't persistent and I took the time to walk her through it all.

                I think THAT is an example of what Jack is talking aboiut...I also have to admit I don't do this NEARLY as often as I should.

                Whether I like iot or not, Jack is prodding me back to a frame of mind that I have somehow let go astray...It's not wrong to point out defects in the plumbing, in fact it's wrong not to.

                It's good business...it only becomes wrong when you cross a line and take advantage of someone who may not know better by fabricating defects or bilking them on charges.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                  Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                  If I took my car to get the tires rotated and I see the mechanic pop the hood and come back and tell me something in my engine is broke, I personally would not be happy. I wanted my tires rotated and that's it, don't look under the hood, just rotate the tires. I look at a 49 drain cleaning the same way.
                  Another way to look at it...
                  What if you drove off and a tie rod breaks because the ball joint was gone...you get in a serious accident.
                  The mechanic that tows you see's the ball joint and tells you it should have been obvious as soon as the car was up on jacks.
                  You ask the mechanic that rotated your tires, he says he was afraid you'd have thought he was trying to sell you something...

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                  • #39
                    Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                    Another way to look at it...
                    What if you drove off and a tie rod breaks because the ball joint was gone...you get in a serious accident.
                    The mechanic that tows you see's the ball joint and tells you it should have been obvious as soon as the car was up on jacks.
                    You ask the mechanic that rotated your tires, he says he was afraid you'd have thought he was trying to sell you something...
                    That is one of the reasons that I like mechanics who will take into the shop and underneath your car and point at the broken pieces, and say that needs to be fixed.

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                    • #40
                      Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                      Maybe it's because I work on my own vehicles that I don't want anyone to look at them. I'll come up with a different analogy, give me some time.
                      Buy cheap, buy twice.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                        I can see both points of view. I figure it boils down to whether a company is a sales organization or a service organization. The main issue in a sales organization is to get your product in front of customers so they can see the benefits. This is why you always see radio stations at car dealerships giving away hot dogs, balloons, t-shirts, etc. I used to work selling vacuum cleaners at one time. We had to use a free carpet shampoo to get our product in front of the customers. However, you would be suprised at the number of people willing to pay over $1500 for a vacuum, when most sold for under $100. It is all about value building and percieved value. Most of my sales were on door-to-door canvasing team. This is down in the trenches, when you just suprised someone while they were watching "As the World Turns" and in less than an hour walked out with a check for about $1700. Even I have a couple tricks up my sleeve you may be willing to try Jack. Instead of just getting your guys to deliver flyers, get them to knock on the door, introduce themselves, and sign them up for a drawing of some sort. Possibly a free W/H replacement or whatever the case might be. Of course you now have their contact information so you can call them up later and excitedly tell them about the the free home inspection they have just won. You would be suprised at the amount of customers that will just invite your canvassing plumbers right in to look at something if they present themselves properly. To all of you other guys who just might need some extra work. Try just knocking some doors, introducing yourself, and leaving them with a magnet for their fridge. You would be suprised at the number of people who have no idea who to call when things go wrong, plus everyone has something they want an estimate on.
                        Last edited by Devine Plumbing; 07-30-2008, 10:07 PM.
                        Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                          Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                          This is opposite of the way I look at it....
                          I guess I aways felt I LOVED these words,

                          "while you are here, would you ...".

                          I schedule them for service and they want to make a day out of my stay fixing ever thing under the sun, Of which I always bring all the supplies and specialty tools I need on my service truck. This is great, because I will make maximum profit working all day and cut out all the driving and wasted fuel that comes from doing too many service calls/day.
                          In your instance you do one trade, I work in general construction, for example I got a call a few days ago to figure out the clock and wiring on a sprinkler system, (not replace it but make it work), so I show up and get it figured out, and all working, and then they say would you mind putting on this screen door I brought home from the dump, (yes from the dump) so I take a look at it and since I had come to look at wires and possibly some pop up heads, I had not brought my big truck with saws or other tools as I was asked for a specific job, I have been called to fix a cabinet door and they then want me to replace a toilet flange or some other totally related item.
                          my truck is not big enough to carry tools for carpentry, plumbing, concrete, dry wall, cabinet building, floor repair, and other, all on the same day. and no I do not seek plumbing jobs, I will do repairs, or emergency fixes,

                          I remember one day years ago, I was in town working on some soffit and exterior trim, and this little girl comes running across the grass from about three house down the block hollering at me to come shut off the water, and you can see she is frantic, so I come a running and follow her in the house and her uncle is trying to do some repair to the tub or the enclosure and he drilled into the water pipe, and water is just shooting out all over the place, and he say shut off the water, as he is trying to deflect it into the tub, (I had never been in this house before, and I ask do you know where it is, and the answer is NO, I ask if there is a basement NO, is there a crawl space "I DO NOT KNOW", I ask the little gal is there any out side doors around the bottom of the house so out we go and there is a small crawl hole door, and luckily there was a light under the house and I spot the water shut off and it even turns, and get it shut off for the guy, I never did know who he was, my mother did know the little gal. and he thanked me and I went back to my trim. and it was jsut a few doors down from my mothers place. So small towns can be fun.
                          I guess I should have sold him on a pipe repair and shower enclosure, and new floors and walls for the bath room,
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                          attributed to Samuel Johnson
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                            Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
                            I can see both points of view. I figure it boils down to whether a company is a sales organization or a service organization. The main issue in a sales organization is to get your product in front of customers so they can see the benefits. This is why you always see radio stations at car dealerships giving away hot dogs, balloons, t-shirts, etc. I used to work selling vacuum cleaners at one time. We had to use a free carpet shampoo to get our product in front of the customers. However, you would be suprised at the number of people willing to pay over $1500 for a vacuum, when most sold for under $100. It is all about value building and percieved value. Most of my sales were on door-to-door canvasing team. This is down in the trenches, when you just suprised someone while they were watching "As the World Turns" and in less than an hour walked out with a check for about $1700. You may even try that Jack. Instead of just getting your guys to deliver flyers, get them to knock on the door, introduce themselves, and sign them up for a drawing of some sort. Possibly a free W/H installation or whatever the case might be. Of course you now have their contact information so you can call them up later and excitedly tell them about the the free home inspection they have just won. You would be suprised at the amount of customers that would invite them right in to look at something if they present themselves properly. To all of you other guys who just might need some extra work. Try just knocking some doors, introducing yourself, and leaving them with a magnet for their fridge. You would be suprised at the number of people who have no idea who to call when things go wrong.
                            The entire subtext of this discussion is honesty vs salesmanship.
                            Offering full and honest disclosure to our customers in hopes we get the work as pointed out.
                            The point here, you don't bother point out the fact that your not licensed or insured to your customers...why stop there?
                            Is there some self defined line you've decided it's ok to cross that the rest of us have to respect?
                            It's a debate on moral ethics vs profit...you might want to explore the moral ethics portion first.
                            Things like "Thou shalt not lie", or "Thou shalt not covet they neighbors goods" for a start.
                            Get those concepts down, then move on to the profit part.

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                            • #44
                              Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                              You never sell. Present the "value".

                              J.C.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: The $49 Drain Clean

                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                The entire subtext of this discussion is honesty vs salesmanship.
                                Offering full and honest disclosure to our customers in hopes we get the work as pointed out.
                                The point here, you don't bother point out the fact that your not licensed or insured to your customers...why stop there?
                                Is there some self defined line you've decided it's ok to cross that the rest of us have to respect?
                                It's a debate on moral ethics vs profit...you might want to explore the moral ethics portion first.
                                Things like "Thou shalt not lie", or "Thou shalt not covet they neighbors goods" for a start.
                                Get those concepts down, then move on to the profit part.
                                Here is where you have it wrong. There is a limited amount of "handyman" work I am allowed to do in my state. Most of my customers will take the time to ask if I am licensed or not. When I answer them they seem relieved. Ever wonder why that is? Maybe its because they know I will not want their credit card number before even coming out to the house. Or the fact that my prices will not be what they would consider to be exhauberant. So this is my fate. I do alright for myself, not because I charge more than the next guy, but because I do twice as much work as the next guy. While you have the luxury of working smarter, not harder. There is a market share for all of us. However, I have a feeling you're still pissed off. I promise not to come to CA, or wherever you're at. Unless Jack makes me an offer I can't refuse.
                                Last edited by Devine Plumbing; 07-30-2008, 10:44 PM.
                                Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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