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  • #16
    Re: charge for tools ?

    so here's my next question . do you charge enough to only cover the cost of the tool ? or are you charging enough to cover the cost of tool and make money on it ? if so is the markup the same that you would apply to any parts or material ?

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    • #17
      Re: charge for tools ?

      Does your mechanic charge you a lift fee for elevating your vehicle when he does an oil change, does a movie theater charge you a bulb fee when you watch a movie, does the pizza place charge you an oven fee when you order a pizza.... of course not, it's all buried as overhead in the cost of the product or service.

      Sorry but to charge individual fees for tools imo is bad business. Your hired because you can get the job done and these specialty tools are usually trade specific. How you do the job and with which wrench you use is up to you provided the end result is done up to standards. These specialty tools in many cases save you time so your able to get more clients thus hopefully earning you more money or making your job more enjoyable. These tools are part of your overhead cost of doing business and should be buried in the quote.

      The scenario regarding the use of the heavy equipment, the customer will not care what you pay the operator, they will not care what you rent the machine for or purchased it for, the only question they need answered is what is the price per hour or day etc of digging that hole as an example. You figure out your cost, your markup and that is your quoted price. Why would you want to break down the bill and assign a number to a tool? The only benefit I can see in doing this would be to make your quote look smaller by presenting as a very simple example 5+1specialty tool charge instead of just presenting the 6. (This type of billing does work even though it is devious imo. When booking clients, the airlines as an example use it all the time to compete with each other and bury you with sur-charges after the fact).

      Here is a question for you, if a customer doesn't like you using this specialty tool because of the additional fee, would you be willing to do it the old fashion way and drop the fee? Even if it meant using a sledge hammer for 4 hours instead of a Jack Hammer for 30 minutes? What happens when the customer see's you using snap-on wrenches as an example and is looking at the tool fee based on your expensive choice of tooling and he believes that because mastercraft are a fraction of the price and work the same then why is he having to pay this fee for such a high end tool...

      Sure you can defend your quote if you've quoted $200 for a job that will take 1 hour by telling the customer the reason it's this price is because we need all these tools etc in order to get the job done in an hour instead of 6 hours but as soon as you put a $ beside a tool usage charge you raise questions in the customers mind such as well do they need that tool or are they padding the bill, can I provide the tool if my buddy has one, if I supply all the tools do I get a discount, can your competition get this job done without the use of these specialty tools.

      Curious to know if you guys charge by the job or by the hour?
      Last edited by Supermanofsteel; 12-01-2011, 02:41 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: charge for tools ?

        So while rebuilding a toilet tank using only hand tools a customer should be paying a higher rate that includes cost to acquire and maintain: drain cleaning equipment, jack hammer, pro press or torch and supplies. My mechanic does have a shop fee and charges to use there diagnostic computer and I enjoy that he is only $70 per hour and why would you want to pay more hourly let him charge the guy with a engine light on for use of diagnostic computer . And he is the auto mechanic I am taking my Chevy 3500 to him to fix where am I coming from as a plumber telling him what to use to work on my truck?

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        • #19
          Re: charge for tools ?

          I never have had an issue with charging extra for my camera work. Never. It's because it is always an option. After rodding a sewer main, I always ask the customer "Ma'am, would you like me to camera your sewer line to see why it clogged? It's and extra $60.00, but if after inspection I see no major issues I will stand behind this cleaning for 6 months. Would you like me to go ahead and do that?"

          Most responses are "Sure, that would be great"

          If they say no, then I'm on my way to the next call without having to risk damage to my camera head.
          Will Rogers Plumbing
          Moore, Oklahoma
          (
          405) 323-2852

          "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

          "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



          www.willrogersplumbing.com
          http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

          "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

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          • #20
            Re: charge for tools ?

            Originally posted by Supermanofsteel View Post
            Does your mechanic charge you a lift fee for elevating your vehicle when he does an oil change, does a movie theater charge you a bulb fee when you watch a movie, does the pizza place charge you an oven fee when you order a pizza.... of course not, it's all buried as overhead in the cost of the product or service.
            Why yes my mechanic has extra fees when he works on my trucks. When he does the brakes he charges me a heavy duty truck fee due to the extra time it takes to do them compared to a normal vehicle. And yes I do get charged extra for an oil change as well disposal fee, I pay the theater extra to see a movie in 3d verse a standard view, and heck if I want my pizza delivered guess what even pizza hut charges a delivery fee. Why would a person coming to pick up their pizza want to pay extra for their pizza to cover the delivery for others?

            Originally posted by Supermanofsteel View Post
            Sorry but to charge individual fees for tools imo is bad business. Your hired because you can get the job done and these specialty tools are usually trade specific. How you do the job and with which wrench you use is up to you provided the end result is done up to standards. These specialty tools in many cases save you time so your able to get more clients thus hopefully earning you more money or making your job more enjoyable. These tools are part of your overhead cost of doing business and should be buried in the quote.
            My customers that I have to use basic hand tools for their plumbing repairs would not like to pay a higher rate to cover the sspecialequipment used for other jobs. We are not a flat rate shop where we would bburycosts in the job quotes. We are a T&M shop so we charge a fair labor rate, a trip charge, and if the need arises a equipment fee.

            Originally posted by Supermanofsteel View Post
            The scenario regarding the use of the heavy equipment, the customer will not care what you pay the operator, they will not care what you rent the machine for or purchased it for, the only question they need answered is what is the price per hour or day etc of digging that hole as an example. You figure out your cost, your markup and that is your quoted price. Why would you want to break down the bill and assign a number to a tool? The only benefit I can see in doing this would be to make your quote look smaller by presenting as a very simple example 5+1specialty tool charge instead of just presenting the 6. (This type of billing does work even though it is devious imo. When booking clients, the airlines as an example use it all the time to compete with each other and bury you with sur-charges after the fact).
            Many of my customers that require the use of heavy equipment are submitting the bills to an insurance company, and they want the prices broken down by labor, parts , and guess what equipment. As I pointed out we been charging a fair labor rate, trip/service call and equipment charges for over 20 years and no complaints.

            Originally posted by Supermanofsteel View Post
            Here is a question for you, if a customer doesn't like you using this specialty tool because of the additional fee, would you be willing to do it the old fashion way and drop the fee? Even if it meant using a sledge hammer for 4 hours instead of a Jack Hammer for 30 minutes? What happens when the customer see's you using snap-on wrenches as an example and is looking at the tool fee based on your expensive choice of tooling and he believes that because mastercraft are a fraction of the price and work the same then why is he having to pay this fee for such a high end tool...
            Sure if they are willing to pay the extra times it takes to do the job a manual way. I did have a customer that did not want to pay the fee for a jack hammer, so he paid me the extra labor it took to use a sledge hammer. I had a guy that didn't want me to use the ProPress due to the extra cost of the fittings and a tool charge, so he paid me the extra time plus gas, flux and solder. The tool fee to make a job go faster, is small compared to the money they will save in the labor the tool saves.

            Originally posted by Supermanofsteel View Post
            Sure you can defend your quote if you've quoted $200 for a job that will take 1 hour by telling the customer the reason it's this price is because we need all these tools etc in order to get the job done in an hour instead of 6 hours but as soon as you put a $ beside a tool usage charge you raise questions in the customers mind such as well do they need that tool or are they padding the bill, can I provide the tool if my buddy has one, if I supply all the tools do I get a discount, can your competition get this job done without the use of these specialty tools.

            Curious to know if you guys charge by the job or by the hour?
            As I stated we are T&M, in this post and in the last post where I said it is not fair to all if I raised my rates to cover tool expense, wear and tear for tools I am not using on their job.
            Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
            A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
            Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
            Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: charge for tools ?

              ok then how do you charge for a tool a flat price or by the hour ,small tools
              Charlie

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              • #22
                Re: charge for tools ?

                Originally posted by Supermanofsteel View Post
                Here is a question for you, if a customer doesn't like you using this specialty tool because of the additional fee, would you be willing to do it the old fashion way and drop the fee? Even if it meant using a sledge hammer for 4 hours instead of a Jack Hammer for 30 ?
                I am not that hungry, nor do I feel I need that kind of exercise. I would rather mark the area I need broken up and let them sweat it out than me suffer using a sledge when I have the proper labor saving tools.

                There are a few occasions that maybe a sledge would damage less than a jackhammer?

                I personally feel ripped off sometimes when charged a huge fee to have something repaired, and have the guy in and out in 10 minutes. Hey, stick around and do nothing for an hour or something to make me feel I got my moneys worth!

                I suppose I am a hypocrite?
                Last edited by masterbeavis; 12-02-2011, 02:46 AM.
                We don't have preventative maintenance around here, we have CRISIS MANAGEMENT!

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                • #23
                  Re: charge for tools ?

                  I'm in the corner with those that think "over head" should be built into ALL pricing.

                  Example: I would never charge specifically for my sawzall, because my sawzall isn't used every single day. When I quote a price, it includes me using my sawzall, hand tools, and my brain.

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                  • #24
                    Re: charge for tools ?

                    Originally posted by Flux View Post
                    I'm in the corner with those that think "over head" should be built into ALL pricing.

                    Example: I would never charge specifically for my sawzall, because my sawzall isn't used every single day. When I quote a price, it includes me using my sawzall, hand tools, and my brain.
                    the key word is when you quote a price. when figuring your quote, you figure your equipment charge into it. on a sawzall i only fugue in a blade/ blades.

                    but if you're charging t & m, the specialty tools should be a line item just like the materials.

                    on a large job/ contract, i line item all my materials, equipment and labor, then duplicate it without the line items and write a proposal.

                    cameras, jetters, snakes, threaders, diamond coring/ jack hammer/ sawcutting, propress, soldering materials etc is all figured into the specific job they're needed for. if a contract it's absorbed into the final contract price. if t & m, it's a line item.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: charge for tools ?

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      the key word is when you quote a price. when figuring your quote, you figure your equipment charge into it. on a sawzall i only fugue in a blade/ blades.

                      but if you're charging t & m, the specialty tools should be a line item just like the materials.

                      on a large job/ contract, i line item all my materials, equipment and labor, then duplicate it without the line items and write a proposal.

                      cameras, jetters, snakes, threaders, diamond coring/ jack hammer/ sawcutting, propress, soldering materials etc is all figured into the specific job they're needed for. if a contract it's absorbed into the final contract price. if t & m, it's a line item.

                      rick.
                      That's common sense.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: charge for tools ?

                        It may not be specifically listed in my invoice but I add in an amount for all specialty tools. Of course drain cleaning, jetting, camera and locating work are in a class of their own. My Wacker tamp is a good example. Every time I use it I add a $100 to the bill, it would cost more than that in time and rental fees to rent one. It has generated thousands of dollars in revenue over the years. Jackhammer, threader, demo saw, pumps, etc all pay for themselves many times over.

                        David

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                        • #27
                          Re: charge for tools ?

                          What % or cost for say * k60 or hilti t60 what about say portable band saw? What about k45 ? Just curious how people charge for thèse items? Thanks seanny
                          Last edited by seanny deep; 01-07-2012, 02:22 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: charge for tools ?

                            KISS Priciple works well - Keep it simple stupid(no direspect guys).
                            As a Professional Tradesman we are required to fix problems. Now as Super professionalTradesmen we INVEST heavily in the best tools available. Look at Ridgid tools for instance, the best of the best in most cases. here we pay premium. So moving along we are ok supplying basic tools of trade but when you get into specialised or other someone has to pay. So get yourself a pricelist from yor local hire joint and charge similar. This is fair and reasonable considering we have to maintain and replace where necessary. Stuff this idea of it being part of your charge rate, that is total BS. Another consideration, what happens if the tools break or get stolen. Does the Client pay for replacement. Didnt think so. How can we make a profit if we dont charge for high maintenance tools

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                            • #29
                              Re: charge for tools ?

                              My apologies for sticking my non-plumbing nose in here,

                              But as a guy with some plumbing experience (as an old time helper and as a current "customer" and a past owner of my own "freelance" business), I think that whatever your business, you need to factor in your everyday or general work tools. That would include you transportation, office, warehouse, stocking place, etc. All that should be part of your regular overhead and therefore your hourly charges.

                              But let's face it, there are jobs (and I'm sure in your business, especially plumbing) there are certain tools, like your inspection camera, that are not generally required, but may be "offered" as an additional part of your service. For example, when I call my plumber he shows up, and does whatever is necessary to fix my particular problems. But, he also offers and sometimes may need to run his camera "down the line", or he may need or recommend that that we "jet" the main drain. If that is absolutely required, because it's part of that particular job requirement, the that "extra" charge is on the bill and is itemized as such and I'm told about it up front, as being required... but it is my option as a customer and I'm wise enough to give the "go-ahead".

                              The point is, IMHO, that certain tools are really so special that an "extra" charge is absolutely essential to good business. Otherwise, if you get your camera or something else jammed or damaged, you simply can not make up for it with regular hourly charges. Certain tools are expensive, at higher risk to replace, and perhaps even specialized to just your service, in that other small-time plumbers and certainly home-owners aren't equipped to perform such services and have such tools.

                              On the flip side, I'd hate to think that as a customer, my bill may include paying for the inspection camera that may never get used on my plumbing problems... but of course, that's always the plumbers choice as to how he runs his business. But, if your competition isn't doing that, your prices may be a bit higher and if your customer ever finds out, you could be impacted, especially if he feels cheated and has a big mouth.

                              CWS

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                              • #30
                                Re: charge for tools ?

                                what happens if the tools break or get stolen. Does the Client pay for replacement.
                                Why should the client pay? Was he using the tool when it broke? Maybe the person using the tool didn't use it properly or maintain it properly and that's why it broke. Should the client be on the hook for that? I don't think so.

                                A tool gets stolen. Is it the clients fault? Is he responsible to lock up your tools and keep them safe? I don't think so. Unless the client had some involvement in planning the theft or was directly involved in the theft then I think they are not gonna want to pay for the tool nor should they have to.

                                The tool belongs to YOU, you take care of it and don't cry when it gets broken or stolen because of your carelessness or irresponsibility.

                                Why not add a uniform charge to your bill as a line item. You only wear them for work right so maybe the client should pay for them too.
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