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  • #31
    Re: charge for tools ?

    In the end the clients pay for EVERYTHING one way or another, cash flow in a business has to come from somewhere.

    I would invoice in such a way that it wouldn't allow any eyebrow raising from any clients however.

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    • #32
      Re: charge for tools ?

      Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
      Why should the client pay? Was he using the tool when it broke? Maybe the person using the tool didn't use it properly or maintain it properly and that's why it broke. Should the client be on the hook for that? I don't think so.

      A tool gets stolen. Is it the clients fault? Is he responsible to lock up your tools and keep them safe? I don't think so. Unless the client had some involvement in planning the theft or was directly involved in the theft then I think they are not gonna want to pay for the tool nor should they have to.

      The tool belongs to YOU, you take care of it and don't cry when it gets broken or stolen because of your carelessness or irresponsibility.

      Why not add a uniform charge to your bill as a line item. You only wear them for work right so maybe the client should pay for them too.

      Bob we have many young blokes over here who subscribe to your way of thinking too. What they do is bring down the trade becasue we cant afford to give the top end service. They convince the client that they know what they are doing for less than the real professionals. Uniform, well why not incorporate a charge. It comes under PPE, you know, PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. Here we want to protect ourselves so we can put our kids through school and hopefully carry on the good honest service. You are right, why should the client pay for equipment NOT used. So my point, KISS, is to add a surcharge where required which is fair and reasonable. You also have to factor in replacement/upkeep. Simple business rationale dont you think. Then again if you want to be a charity then go ahead, your choice. Me, I do charity work too but for those that are legitimate though. I know there are many who will disagree with me, and I am totally cool with this. Just think though, we all need money to survive, unfortunately, so we can operate businesses legitimately as well as legally. profit is not a dirty word, it means that you have done a good job and looked after your clients properly and not compromised their trust in you and your ability.

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      • #33
        Re: charge for tools ?

        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
        Why should the client pay? Was he using the tool when it broke? Maybe the person using the tool didn't use it properly or maintain it properly and that's why it broke. Should the client be on the hook for that? I don't think so.

        A tool gets stolen. Is it the clients fault? Is he responsible to lock up your tools and keep them safe? I don't think so. Unless the client had some involvement in planning the theft or was directly involved in the theft then I think they are not gonna want to pay for the tool nor should they have to.

        The tool belongs to YOU, you take care of it and don't cry when it gets broken or stolen because of your carelessness or irresponsibility.

        Why not add a uniform charge to your bill as a line item. You only wear them for work right so maybe the client should pay for them too.
        Speaking as an industrial contractor only; When we do a commercial project we expect some type of security to be in place on the job site, provided by either the General Contractor or the Owner. Even though we use construction cargo bins for tool storage, material etc... they can be broken into.

        Case in point: Good friend of mine, (plumbing contractor) brought me in to handle the commercial water softeners on a two hotel project in San Diego a few years back. He repeatedly warned the G.C. that they needed security on the job site, because several of the other Subs, Painters, Dry waller, etc... were using illegal alien workers. (Half the cars on the job site had Upper Baja California plates) Anyways I show up on a scheduled Monday, so we can do a preliminary job walk through. When I show up at the site there are Cops there, investigators etc... My friend sees me and tells that over the weekend someone came onto the property and pulled out of the walls of the building some $50,000.00 in copper pipe, then they broke into one of his Cargo containers stole all his tools and over $20,000.00 in pipe.

        When he tried to get the G.C. and the owner to pay he was told to claim it on his insurance if he wanted to continue building hotels with them. Nice to know they had his back on this one.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: charge for tools ?

          Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
          Speaking as an industrial contractor only; When we do a commercial project we expect some type of security to be in place on the job site, provided by either the General Contractor or the Owner. Even though we use construction cargo bins for tool storage, material etc... they can be broken into.

          Case in point: Good friend of mine, (plumbing contractor) brought me in to handle the commercial water softeners on a two hotel project in San Diego a few years back. He repeatedly warned the G.C. that they needed security on the job site, because several of the other Subs, Painters, Dry waller, etc... were using illegal alien workers. (Half the cars on the job site had Upper Baja California plates) Anyways I show up on a scheduled Monday, so we can do a preliminary job walk through. When I show up at the site there are Cops there, investigators etc... My friend sees me and tells that over the weekend someone came onto the property and pulled out of the walls of the building some $50,000.00 in copper pipe, then they broke into one of his Cargo containers stole all his tools and over $20,000.00 in pipe.

          When he tried to get the G.C. and the owner to pay he was told to claim it on his insurance if he wanted to continue building hotels with them. Nice to know they had his back on this one.
          Water Surgeon, I have heard this more times than you can believe. It is described aas making a "Commercial Decision". It would be ok if you could stick it back up the Client/GC through replacement works but nowadays we are too savvy to costs. It comes down to the regulators. Over here you need insurance but nobody checks what Insurance you have other than the Rip-Off compulsory ones that make fat-cats of Insurance Companies because they dont pay out(always an excuse). Situations like this I believe it should be publicised and the GC/Client black-banned. The GC obviously has trousered the caash from the Insurance Policy he didnt take out but I bet he allowed for in his initial tender price. So who is the Criminal here??? My money is on the GC as he has obtained financial advantage fraudulently, hasnt he????????????

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: charge for tools ?

            As stated, the customer pays for everything in the end. As far as how it's invoiced... The more you break things down and the more detailed the bills get, the more you risk the customer being unhappy about something or picking out one thing he doesn't agree with in the bill. Here's what we did, that's what we used, you see the quality of our work, this is the end price. Are you happy with it? Great! As a rule, I do not give great details on invoices. You may disagree, but it's worked well so far for me.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: charge for tools ?

              Sometimes the consumers dont need to know. What gets me in the neck is the Weekend Warrior experts who look at your work after and use the "shoulda done this and shoulda done that and i woulda done this " etc etc etc.
              When it comes to tools there is no discussion. Take a $7k investment in the Viega pro-press. I wouldnt give that away for nothing. We have the tools, the knowlege and the expertise. WHere is the problem with reward for service and equipment

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              • #37
                Re: charge for tools ?

                Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
                Sometimes the consumers dont need to know. What gets me in the neck is the Weekend Warrior experts who look at your work after and use the "shoulda done this and shoulda done that and i woulda done this " etc etc etc.
                When it comes to tools there is no discussion. Take a $7k investment in the Viega pro-press. I wouldnt give that away for nothing. We have the tools, the knowlege and the expertise. WHere is the problem with reward for service and equipment
                Not a damn thing!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: charge for tools ?

                  What I hate is giving a bid for a job and as an example, I bid it in my mind with using a mole and compressor to save man hours trenching, and restoration afterwards. Job gets done and I am asked for a detailed bill. I think " it's 7k like I bid but ok" write it out detailed and get questioned on the mole charge, "well I think you could have had laborers dig it for much less" then I explain about how the restoration would have added many hours plus my time to oversee the laborers (you wouldn't want them not supervised would you?) The customer then pays with a little reluctance. Point is sure specialty tools save man hours but they cost a lot of money to buy and maintain, some tools take years to get to break even point they are a gamble that can or can not pay off. And also if I bid a certain price and the mole can't do the job for whatever reason and I have to resort to digging I have to stay to my bid and that can ruin the whole job profit wise. I usually don't have to go through this with my customers but every now and then it happens and it just yanks my chain.
                  Seattle Drain Service

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: charge for tools ?

                    Originally posted by Cuda View Post
                    What I hate is giving a bid for a job and as an example, I bid it in my mind with using a mole and compressor to save man hours trenching, and restoration afterwards. Job gets done and I am asked for a detailed bill. I think " it's 7k like I bid but ok" write it out detailed and get questioned on the mole charge, "well I think you could have had laborers dig it for much less" then I explain about how the restoration would have added many hours plus my time to oversee the laborers (you wouldn't want them not supervised would you?) The customer then pays with a little reluctance. Point is sure specialty tools save man hours but they cost a lot of money to buy and maintain, some tools take years to get to break even point they are a gamble that can or can not pay off. And also if I bid a certain price and the mole can't do the job for whatever reason and I have to resort to digging I have to stay to my bid and that can ruin the whole job profit wise. I usually don't have to go through this with my customers but every now and then it happens and it just yanks my chain.
                    Yea once in awhile we get the occasional customer who wants a "detailed" bill.

                    We give them a detailed bill, but it's written in a way so they can never come back and "try" to negotiate. Our prices are not negotiable and that's that.

                    Btw..you should of see the bill for my nose surgery! I never again want to hear consumers or contractors complain about pricing...I was in total shock!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: charge for tools ?

                      As Flux alluded to, have you seen a hospital bill lately? They charged for the tv which I didn't watch and the kleenix which I didn't use. Just put it in your overhead please.
                      "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                      • #41
                        Re: charge for tools ?

                        phoebe was 42k not including the doctors bill. just the hospital / labor and delivery billing. but it was itemized. talk about markup and overhead.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

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                        • #42
                          Re: charge for tools ?

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          phoebe was 42k not including the doctors bill. just the hospital / labor and delivery billing. but it was itemized. talk about markup and overhead.
                          rick.
                          Rick,
                          You are just getting started. I suggested you start raising your rates to try and get ahead of this parenting game. You have a long way to go, and a short time to get there, (Jerry Reed).

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: charge for tools ?

                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                            phoebe was 42k not including the doctors bill. just the hospital / labor and delivery billing. but it was itemized. talk about markup and overhead.

                            rick.
                            For my recent nose surgery, the hospital billed $25,000 for me being there a total of 2 hours, and that didn't included the doctor or anesthesiologist.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: charge for tools ?

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              phoebe was 42k not including the doctors bill. just the hospital / labor and delivery billing. but it was itemized. talk about markup and overhead.

                              rick.
                              Is that out of your pocket or did you health insururance pay for it

                              Tony

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                              • #45
                                Re: charge for tools ?

                                joey's ins. paid after her deductible was met.

                                the numbers they charge are a joke. joey's brother reviewed the line items and couldn't believe the numbers compared to what they charge at his hospital. the markup was staggering.

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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