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  • I'd buy a Ridgid Table Saw IF...

    Here is a list of things that I'd like to see improved on the TS-2424. I'm shopping for a table saw (and a few other things) right now, and these are the things that, if improved, would make me buy the improved TS-2424.

    1) Needs a T-slot style miter gauge slot.

    2) I really dislike the rip fence. I know all about how it squares up OK if you push it forward before locking. I'd have a hard time trusting that fence -- I'd be checking it every cut to make sure it was really square. I'd have to worry that accidentally locking it down cockeyed would warp or twist it.

    IF you were to take the fence that's on the current high-end Craftsman saw and put it on the TS2424, it would be a TREMENDOUS improvement. My understanding was that you're not building 'em for Sears anymore, but it does look a little like your work -- and if it is, then let's get it on the TS2424! (If it's not, then copy it!)

    Just a thought: How about selling the saw and fence seperately? Have a range of fences available so the guy who isn't fussy can buy the cheapie, and fussbudgets like me can go get a Biesemeyer... or a Ridgid Biesemeyer clone. I see other manufacturers offering a range of fences, but have never seen them offer a "fenceless" saw -- but I like to order a la carte, myself [img]smile.gif[/img]

    You could even take it another step and offer a range of motors -- pick the size and style that suits your budget and usage. Instead of putting a cheap blade on it, offer a selection to choose from, appropriately priced. Sort of a "build your own saw," approach, like the way Dell and Gateway sells computers.

    3) I'd want a TEFC motor, myself. If I could buy the saw with no motor, I'd put a 2 or 3 HP 220V TEFC on it.

    4) Unless I'm missing something, there's no blade height lock. That would drive me nuts trying to do lots of repetitive dadoes. With no lock the blade would surely move at least a little.

    5) Needs solid cast-iron wings. (Another menu item?)

    6) I like the idea of being able to rip 24" to the left of the blade. The limitation of 24" to the right, however, is a MAJOR issue when good, competitive saws can go 30" with their entry-level fences. Again, a menu item -- a selection of rail lengths so you can build it your way.

    7) I'd like to see a magnetic start/stop switch rather than the modified toggle.

    8) This is a piddly, small issue, I know -- but I OD on "HD Orange" every time I walk through their store. I'm sure that the orange details are what they want -- but nice black handles would appeal to me. I'd never let that stop me from buying an otherwise good product, but as long as I'm whining...

    9) Above all, keep the herc-u-lift!


    Thanks for listening...

    D.

  • #2
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1) Needs a T-slot style miter gauge slot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes the t-slot is becoming more and more common. That will be one of many things we will consider when we develop a our next gen table saw.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2) I really dislike the rip fence. I know all about how it squares up OK if you push it forward before locking. I'd have a hard time trusting that fence -- I'd be checking it every cut to make sure it was really square. I'd have to worry that accidentally locking it down cockeyed would warp or twist it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The only way I can answer this concern is to ask you to talk to the owners to RIDGID saws (go to the woodworking forums). I think you will find our fence to be very consistant, accurate, and will lock down extemely tight. so tight you can pick up the saw with the fence (do not try at home). BTW, the fence on the high end Sears is functionally no different than there lower end cast iron models, only a little bigger.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Just a thought: How about selling the saw and fence seperately? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I've often thought this a good idea myself, but safety becomes a concern. Trust me someone would get a fenceless saw home and try to make a rip cut on it.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You could even take it another step and offer a range of motors -- pick the size and style that suits your budget and usage. Instead of putting a cheap blade on it, offer a selection to choose from, appropriately priced. Sort of a "build your own saw," approach, like the way Dell and Gateway sells computers.
    3) I'd want a TEFC motor, myself. If I could buy the saw with no motor, I'd put a 2 or 3 HP 220V TEFC on it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If we were selling saw through mail order this would be possible, but since Home Depot is our only outlet for woodworking, we ust package saws as a complete unit.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>4) Unless I'm missing something, there's no blade height lock. That would drive me nuts trying to do lots of repetitive dadoes. With no lock the blade would surely move at least a little.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No there is no blade lock and there hasn't been one for several years. I have yet to hear of a single cast iron table saw with blade height problems.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>5) Needs solid cast-iron wings. (Another menu item?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Cost and weight, cost and weight

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>6) I like the idea of being able to rip 24" to the left of the blade. The limitation of 24" to the right, however, is a MAJOR issue when good, competitive saws can go 30" with their entry-level fences. Again, a menu item -- a selection of rail lengths so you can build it your way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yet another thing we will have to consider on our next generation of saws.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>7) I'd like to see a magnetic start/stop switch rather than the modified toggle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Now you are getting into the realm of a cabinet saw.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>8) This is a piddly, small issue, I know -- but I OD on "HD Orange" every time I walk through their store. I'm sure that the orange details are what they want -- but nice black handles would appeal to me. I'd never let that stop me from buying an otherwise good product, but as long as I'm whining... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Personal prefence. The color is not HD orange but RIDGID red and that color has been around longer than our partnership with Home Depot.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>9) Above all, keep the herc-u-lift!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Not a chance we will get rid of that!

    Jake

    [ 07-23-2001: Message edited by: JSchnarre ]

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, Jake... you've touched on a great answer to many of my points -- Start selling them online! [img]smile.gif[/img]

      Jake, thanks for your response. I must, however, respectfully disagree on the blade height lock issue -- virtually every one of this saw's direct competitors (at least the ones, I've seen) DO have a blade height lock. To me, it's as essential to have the lock as it is to have the blade adjustment.

      You are correct that the basic design of the fence is the same on all of the Sears Cast Iron saws, the primary difference is size. However, IMHO, it IS a better fence than Ridgid's TS-24xx saws. I hope to see that change in your next generation of saws.

      Speaking of that... can you give us any hint of when we might see that next generation appear? I'll be interested in seeing the changes, and if I haven't bought yet, I'll give you another round of consideration.

      Thanks again,

      D.

      Comment


      • #4
        Dan, my opinion is that you are borrowing trouble regarding the blade lock. I've never had mine budge, have heard owner's of other brands complaining of the height changing when they tighten their lock. The Ridgid is different from the other machines, in that the height adjustment is finer pitched. The only semi-valid gripe I've seen as an offshoot is that it takes more turns to go from full-up to full-down. When adjusting the height, end your setting with the blade rising, this preloads the adjuster mechanism and gives a truer setting. This holds for about any machine, like a jointer.

        Jake, would it help in your argument to know that other companies sell fenceless saws?

        Solid wings. Cost and weight AND utility. Webbed wings are a Godsend for attaching featherboards. If I had solid wings I would have to drill holes all over them. What a pain.

        Dan, you could add a mag switch if you want. They are, however, rather expensive.

        Dave, Buttinski

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, Dave, I guess that goes to show how all these different companies can make the same sort of products and all be successful -- different guys see it different ways. Perhaps a large portion of Contractor saw users would never notice or care if there is a lock on the blad3e height. Perhaps fussy 'ol geezers like me oughta shut and buy a Unisaw (in my dreams...) [img]smile.gif[/img] Perhaps I represent a minority, but if I were running a batch of 1/4x1/4 dadoes (say, making a bunch of shaker-style flat panel doors, for example) and I found when I was done that my 1/4 X 1/4 dado had slipped to 1/4 x 7/32, I'd be one unhappy camper. Having experienced such phenomenon before, I can testify to that.

          Webbed wings vs solid wings is another debatable point. I see your point about the usefulness of webbed wings, but I also remember using an oold Sears saw with webbed wings and pinching my fingers a lot. Webbed vs solid wings isn't necessarily a deal-buster for me, but if they save that much by reducing the weight and amount of material, the saw should cost a little less than the rest of the pack in its class -- which it does not.

          Yeah, maybe a mag switch is a little much on a contractor saw. I can't help it -- it's the electrical guy and the engineer interacting with the shop guy who's seen people do a lot of boneheaded things with machinery, I suppose... and I guess I just have good taste in control circuits. Of course, it's easy to have good taste when you're spending other people's money...

          Oh, and here's the perfect solution to the guy that is gonna buy a saw without a fence and then go try to rip a board... sell it without a blade, either. If he's that dense, he'll never know the difference!

          D.

          Comment


          • #6
            BTW, I noticed that Biesemeyer is now offering a fence specifically for the Ridgid saws. Maybe you (or HD) should make it an available option... it's a great fence!

            D.

            Comment


            • #7
              Dan, I read with interest your suggestions and I would offer the following:

              "In theory" you think that a saw without a blade height lock will slip. In practice, I have not had a blade drop in height on my old Sears craftsman (made by Emerson) in 25 years of use. I've had my Ridgid TS2424 for about 9 months and built a lot of cabinets(dados). Guess what? No slip/drop. I have to go with Dave on this. It's a non issue.

              As for the T-slot miter gage forget it. I hate them. They are IMHO a pain in the rear.

              As for the fence issue, I would ask if you have ever used the fence on a TS2424? When I bought my saw, I fully expected to replace the fence, because, quite frankly the fence on my old Craftsman was a piece of junk. I have yet to find the Ridgid fence to be innacurate or any problem squaring. Have you tried to slide a Biesmeyer down the rail and lock it in place? I'm not knocking Bies only wondering if you have actually tried both?

              Also, as far as your "build a saw" theory, I can't speak for Ridgid but on a product sold at a Home Improvement store, I would question the rationale. Many people who come to HD or Lowes just want a saw that they can take out of the box and use. Would guess that if you took an "exit entry poll" that most might think a Biesmeyer was some kind of sausage [img]smile.gif[/img] I guess in my bumbling way I'm trying to say that I don't think this approach would work. Mail order? Perhaps. You would think that the person ordering would at least have some clue or a little more basic knowledge.

              To end my boring treatise, while on vacation our motel was dangerously close to a Lowes. Naturally, I felt obligated to inspect their tool crib. I noticed sawdust on a DeWalt 744 bench top saw. I went over to check it out, of course. Well, the blade was on backwards. That's right, teeth were facing to rear of saw. I called this to the attention of the "teenager in charge" of the dept. His comment was "yeah, maybe it is backwards". Would you buy a Biesmeyer from this person?I rest my case.
              Dick

              Comment


              • #8
                Hergy, "As for the T-slot"...

                And I thought I was the only one! But still, I would recommend Ridgid change to it at some point. Beauty of having a T-slot is that we can take the T-dingus off the miter, but guys who like them can't add them currently. But, I sure don't see the attraction.

                Dan, "that my 1/4 X 1/4 dado had slipped to 1/4 x 7/32"... Unhappy camper doesn't begin to describe what I would be. A public forum constrains me for describing what I would be. My Ridgid, doesn't do that. Just doesn't.

                Just between you and I, I wouldn't want a saw with a mag switch. Ever seen one start by being jolted? I can remember to hit power off when the power fails.

                I will confess that I replaced the fence, but I replaced it with an Incra. I would replace any fence on the market with an Incra.

                "Yeah, maybe it is backwards" Then again, maybe it is an extremely large negative hook angle blade...
                Dave

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks guys, there is a lot of good info in this thread. I think I will print out a copy or two and pass it along to our engineers.

                  Jake

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Jake, thanks for paying attention to our comments and giving them consideration. It says a lot of good things about the company.

                    So, after reading the whole thread over again, here's a summary of what would make everyone happy:

                    1)Put a T-slot miter gauge slot on the saw, but make sure the extra piece on the miter gauge screws on, so it can be easily removed for those who hate it and easily replaced for those who love it.

                    2) Fences: Well, the only way to make everyone happy here is to sell the saw and fence seperately, and make a selection of fences available. If the lawyers worry too much about the doofus that will try those fenceless rips, remind them that the guy still has to attach the fence to the saw, so he could do the same thing, anyway.

                    Seriously, an option would be to have 2 or 3 standard configurations, with the saw in one box and the fence in another. Stores stock a few saws, and a few of each fence option... maybe more of the one that moves fastest. Heck, the fence is already in a seperate box now, isn't it?

                    On the subject of fences, I note that nobody disagrees that more than 25" rip capacity is important. I guess that tells you something: "more rip capacity is a good thing and we want it." [img]smile.gif[/img]

                    3) Motor: interesting that there wasn't any dissent on the TEFC motor. Conclusion: everyone likes the idea of a TEFC motor that can't fill up with sawdust. 2HP 2ould be nice, too... [img]smile.gif[/img]

                    4) Leave the blade adjust mechanism like it is, but add a simple height lock. Guys who think it's silly can always take it off, and thopse of us who think it's important are happy too. Everyone wins!

                    5) OK, forget the solid cast-iron extensions. and magnetic switch. After all, it's ONLY a contractor saw.

                    Seriously, I would consider a larger switch that can be turned on and off with your knee. Make it easy to kill it fast if you have to!

                    6) "Ridgid Red" and "HD Orange" are on the same chip-chart, but anyone who would select the saw because of the color of the handles shouldn't buy the saw, anyway.

                    For the sake of those who have to sneak this purchase past the wife, however, you could always make a line of designer colored knob covers, like those colored computer pieces that are popular with the less-than-technical buyers. Another possibility is a knob-refinishing kit that allows you to perfectly co-ordinate the knobs with the paint stains on your garage floor. Hey, it sounds like just the kind of thing that HD would love to sell! <ROFL>

                    7) Keep the Herc-U-Lift


                    Thanks again, Jake. We'll be watching for the next generation... need a beta tester?

                    D.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dan: Thanks for the input...and check under your name next time you post!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do I smell a ridgid store & resteranut? [img]smile.gif[/img]
                        Andy B.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Jake, I`m new to Ridgid tools but just bought a Ridgid 6" Jointer and am impressed. Wouldn`t change a thing. But would love a Herc-u-lift for it.

                          I`m looking at buying a shop saw in the next couple of months, so I`m starting to do my home work now. I have to agree with Dan on a few points. The 2424 looks like a great contractors saw. In my opinion as good as any out there. But I think what Dan and I are looking for is a heavier duty contractors saw or a lighter duty cabinet saw. Sound weird, I know but I love the idea of solid cast extensions. Extra weight means less vibration and noise. I havent actually looked at your fence system, and I`m sure its fine but a 52" Biesmeyer type would be great. 1 1/2 h.p. is plenty powerful for most applications, but 2 or 3 h.p would be nice for extended running time and possibly longevity.

                          Otherwise you guy's seem to be on the right track. Keep up the good work. And keep us informed when the next generation of saws arrive. I`m anxiously awaiting.

                          Steve Y

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My two cents:

                            T-slot= I could do without it, seems like a pain to feed in a heavy tenon jig (Delta) rather than dropping it in.

                            Rip fence is working fine, just need to pay attention to what you're doing, but you ought to be doing that anyway,

                            TEFC motor = looks like Ridgid is going that way (it's on the new band saw). Any benefit to upgrading my existing motor?

                            Bade height lock = non-issue, have not seen even slight slippage. If no value is being added, why add cost?

                            Solid wings = don't even think about it. I like to ability to clamp feather boards.

                            Rip capacity = If you add capacity, do it in another model (offer a cabinet saw), but don't change this one. The reason I bought this saw was its size (24" accomodates most furniture projects just fine) and portability (herculift). If the saw was any wider I would not fit in my relatively small shop. Making one side wider would appear to create instability (balance) forcing a more permanent positioning.

                            Toggle switch = position and convenience are perfect. Easily switched off with my hip when holding stock. I wish I could retrofit some of my other tools with this switch. Pulling out the safety tab also gives me piece of mind when my kids are in the shop.

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