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  • #16
    Re: standing my ground for the customer

    jc, good post and good response. i see you're 90% or so with me

    but on single family homes, shut off valves are not required.

    same as on tub and shower valves in single family homes.

    now the newer high end tub and shower valves for single family homes, they might have an integral stop. multi unit buildings are required to have stops for all fixtures or a unit shut off.

    remember that this is a wall mount faucet going back to the original home construction of the late 50's. 95% of my customers have deck mounted faucets with angle stops. it's a rarity to have shut offs on a wall mount residential faucet and is not required.

    once again the guy was there to generate as much money and not address the problem at hand. a dripping/ running faucet.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: standing my ground for the customer

      I could swear all Plumbing Codes require shutoff valves for each fixture. I know National and International Plumbing codes require that. I'm not sure on BOCA and UPC, but I know UPC is pretty darn tough as we used to have a few towns around here use it.

      But with that said..maybe when that faucet was installed it wasn't required back then.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: standing my ground for the customer

        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post


        Well what I was working on went together real quick. (You and I know that almost NEVER happens). So I call him on his mobile. No answer. I call him again. No answer. I leave a message I'm on my way there and start heading to his house. At about 10:50 a.m. I have my turn signal on at his driveway and the phone rings. He says to me "I couldn't wait and have got somebody here to fix it".

        I almost lost it but kept my cool, turned my signal off, and drove on past.

        Now if he would have called me back and said, "This guy is going to charge me $950.00 to repair a leak and put two shutoffs in I want you to come over and see what's going on", do you think I'm going back?


        Maybe you would, and that's ok. I'm not. He can never call me for anything as long as he is alive.

        J.C.
        Something similar has happen to us a few times. I'm in agreement that we will never work for those type of people again, as that is not the type of customer I want to work for.

        A few months ago, someone called at 7pm at night with a major leak crashing down onto her first floor. I called back within seconds...and I mean seconds. She didn't even answer the phone or call me back. I was probably #8 on a list of 20 Plumbers she called, and by the time I called back she got someone else. But heaven forbid if we can't call the customer back right away...they will slander your company.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: standing my ground for the customer

          I see this same kind of stuff sometimes.

          Rick, I am with you 100% on this. I am sometimes amazed at what some "plumbers" try to get away with. Sloppy work, no knowledge, yet they charge outrageous amounts that really don't even make any sense.

          I used to love flatrate, but even I charge mostly T&M now, and one reason is that there are quite a few flat-rate companies in my area that (in my humble opinion) are ripoffs and I don't want to be associated with them.

          One example: Recently, I went out on a job to replace two hose spigots. They were super easy, probably the some of the easiest I have ever done because they were pex connected, and easy to access. I charged the guy for an hour service call (it only took me half an hour plus driving to finish) and marked up the materials. I think the bill was around $150.
          He told me that another company had quoted him around $650 to do that same exact thing. Well, who am I to judge some other prices, but I can tell you that $600 for half an hour of labor is EXTREMELY high for this area. And that didn't even inculde the trip charge, they were already there doing something else. Gouging if you ask me.

          Anyway, good job you did "saving" the customer.
          Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: standing my ground for the customer

            When I read the original post I first thought we're dealing with galv. and thought well thats a lot of money but that kind of job could get involved so the $ didn't seem totally out there. Copper as it turns out and it turns out the no name plumber is a crook. Shutoffs we all agree should have already been installed, what a dumbazz, lazy repipe, stuff like that really chaffs me.

            Would have done the samething as Rick and hope the customer recieved a nice talking to about the virtues of patience. ..... although it has'nt worked for me

            wookie

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: standing my ground for the customer

              get a good laugh out of this. i went to their website and copied their coupons from their site.


              what's amazing is the 15% discount for faucet repairs. even more amazing is they never even attempted to repair the faucet. never even took off the handle

              get a good look at these discounts



              rick.
              Attached Files
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: standing my ground for the customer

                Originally posted by Flux View Post
                I could swear all Plumbing Codes require shutoff valves for each fixture. I know National and International Plumbing codes require that. I'm not sure on BOCA and UPC, but I know UPC is pretty darn tough as we used to have a few towns around here use it.

                But with that said..maybe when that faucet was installed it wasn't required back then.
                Check IPC 606.2 for the requirements of shut-offs. They are not required at tubs or showers in one and two families dwellings. I believe you could successfully argue an old wall mounted kitchen would meet the same criteria.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: standing my ground for the customer

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  Check IPC 606.2 for the requirements of shut-offs. They are not required at tubs or showers in one and two families dwellings. I believe you could successfully argue an old wall mounted kitchen would meet the same criteria.

                  Mark
                  The 2 keys words I over looked last week was "other than", when it was talking about one and 2 family dwellings.

                  Do you know that I sat there this morning reading that part of the code over and over and over and over, and it took me that long to understand what the heck they meant.

                  That part of the code is very confusing at first.

                  So basically there are 2 shut off's at the meter, one for each outside faucet, and 2 for risers to the second floor.

                  I've been digging around for my National Standard Plumbing code book, and I haven't found it yet. I want to see how they word it in there.

                  I hate the fact Pa. went to the International code...it's too lenient.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: standing my ground for the customer

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    get a good laugh out of this. i went to their website and copied their coupons from their site.


                    what's amazing is the 15% discount for faucet repairs. even more amazing is they never even attempted to repair the faucet. never even took off the handle

                    get a good look at these discounts



                    rick.
                    HMMMM...... I wonder why they dont accept cash?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: standing my ground for the customer

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      i guess you don't see my point. the $940 was not going to fix the faucet. it was just going to shut off the water. 99% of wall mounted kitchen sink faucets don't have shut offs.

                      the couple hours he had the water shut off, was a joke.

                      my question to you, if you were to get a female customer and had the same leaking faucet. would you sell her shut offs or fix the faucet?

                      he never even bothered looking at the faucet. never bothered to get the water back on, but leave her stranded to call me for advise.

                      the plumber didn't even have 2-1/2'' ball valves on his truck. if he had to go get the supplies before the supply house closes at 5pm. why wouldn't he just install a washer or a stem to get the water back on and the real problem fixed?

                      was it that he can't justify a normal service call and has to go after a big ticket repair?

                      why didn't he just replace the faucet if he didn't know how to install a washer?

                      what honest plumber would outright rip off a lady.

                      remember she called me first and i told her i could make it end of day. when she felt that she was getting robbed, is when she called me again. i didn't just stop by because i wanted to. i stopped by because she was being taken advantage of and called for help.

                      sorry if you feel i was out of line. but i honestly can't see you defending a plumber that's m/o is to rip off the public.

                      explain why the gas meter vault was even opened. no less left open for someone to fall into.

                      why he never bothered to look at the faucet leak?

                      why he doesn't have a 1/2'' shut off valve in his truck?

                      why he isn't licensed to work in los angeles when his shop is located in los angeles?

                      rick.

                      I can honestly say there are VERY few people like you in this world.... The way you are is a good thing and if I had to hire a plumber I would rather pay to fly you to the other side of the country than to chance it with someone local. HOWEVER, with that being said 99% of plumbers out there arent going to have your work ethic, drive, work quality, desire to do everything by the book, etc. You have to realize this and except it. It takes all kinds to make the world go round and no matter what you do there will always be alot of people out to rip customers off and there will NEVER be many people who do the job as well as you.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: standing my ground for the customer




                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: standing my ground for the customer

                          Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
                          HMMMM...... I wonder why they dont accept cash?
                          Probably don't trust thier techs..........

                          wookie

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: standing my ground for the customer

                            Rick,

                            I am not in the plumbing field, (HVAC) however customers in a tizzy for RIGHT NOW EMERGENCY service is in every service business. I respect your work ethics, customer service and honesty. Those are things my Father taught me, while working in the business with him for 20 years. Many times I would feel just like some on here have expressed, only to grow older, and I guess wiser, to look back and say "Oh, now I see, it all makes perfectly good since. Thanks Dad!"

                            Sometimes we ourselves need to slow down and make sure we look through the eyes of our customers. Its easy for us to say "Oh heck no, that is robbery for others to charge that and etc..." but the customers do not know this. Only thing they know is I have a problem and it needs to be taken care of right now. It is number one in their lives, while we have to juggle all the other I have a problem that is number one's that called in before they did...hahaha

                            I love the coupons too. Especially the small print, "A minimum service call payment of $59.00 must be secured by a credit card at the time the appointment is scheduled and before a technician will be dispatched." Man oh man is that a classy line.

                            And they do not take cash? Are you kidding me? Of course it does make sense because they are being so dishonest they don't trust anyone else and it falls into their tech's ripping them off, skimming cash, like they are doing to the customers.

                            No matter how bad things get we must always try to remember and follow Mr. Rick's excellent example. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to find others that offer sterling service no matter what is thrown at them, its the way of my Dad yet he has been gone due to cancer since 2002. Yeah I miss him but won't forget with others on the same path he walked. Thank you Rick, this brought back some awesome memories for me!
                            Dad always said, "If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough!"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: standing my ground for the customer

                              thanks gator

                              welcome to the forum.


                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: standing my ground for the customer

                                I sorta had call like this home warranty sends out plumber or so. Called to repair a moen t&s valve says he can not get it out and tells the guy he must replace it bust a hole in the wall finds there is a 2nd wall and then tells him he.needs to call a carpenter . I get the call thru sm go and have replace the cartridge and have it working like brand new. I have not stocked parts for older faucet how much stuff do you keep on the truck?

                                Comment

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