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  • ProFlo

    So today I was called to a house because both sillcocks were not working.

    Go to the first sillcock and the handle just turns with no water coming out of it. Head down to the finished basement (removable tile ceiling) and locate the copper pipe where the sillcock is connected. The problem was I couldn't even touch with my hands the copper pipe, cause the Plumber who originally installed this line, thought it would be funny to install it directly where the main trunk lines are.

    Now this clown had the entire side of the house during his rough-in to install this sillcock, and he picked this spot. What ever happen to communicating with the Heating contractor during rough-ins? There is absolutely no reason at all for a piss poor plumbing layout in this trade that's supposed to be filled with Professionals.

    What made it even worse, the guy who finished the basement covered the shut off valve with metal studs, and I could barely get my hands on it to make sure the valve was off.

    The other sillcock on the other side of the house had the same problem with the handle spinning. This side was no issue at all, as it was wide open for me to work in.

    So I head down to ferguson to see if I can get any repair parts for these sillcocks. The counter guy said they stopped making these parts in 2002 and I'm basically f*cked. The newer Proflo sillcocks don't offer any repair parts either except for handles. If I need a valve stem, I have to rob a new valve for all the parts.

    I'll never again EVER install a proflo sillcock and I made sure to let them know that today. I was so freaking HOT over this, and now this job is that much harder because

    A. The Plumber who roughed it in has no common sense or communication skills what so ever.

    B. Ferguson sells a product but doesn't provide any repair parts for this sillcock.

    I'm not a Proflo fan at all, but the one thing I kind of liked where their sillcocks.

    This area is LOADED with Proflo sillcocks, and I feel sorry for the unsuspected customers who have no idea that these sillcocks can't be repaired at all.

    It's back to Woodford, Legend, and A.Y. McDonald for me regarding sillcocks.



  • #2
    Re: ProFlo

    The last house I did I Repetedly requested the General get the HVAC out so I could coordinate.Homeowners/Generals do not listen.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ProFlo

      Nice...I am so glad I don't do new construction anymore..There is no coordination, everyone is on top of each other , you have to fight for every inch to install everything..Noone has any answers for you..till you're done..I hate anything Pro Flo..Their sweat ball valves suck too..Every packing nut leaks so I 've just gotten in the habit of taking the handles off and snugging them all..On a side note I do like the legend sillcocks with the rubber 1/4 turn handles..Thanks I feel better now
      ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ProFlo

        Originally posted by OLD1 View Post
        Nice...I am so glad I don't do new construction anymore..There is no coordination, everyone is on top of each other , you have to fight for every inch to install everything..Noone has any answers for you..till you're done..I hate anything Pro Flo..Their sweat ball valves suck too..Every packing nut leaks so I 've just gotten in the habit of taking the handles off and snugging them all..On a side note I do like the legend sillcocks with the rubber 1/4 turn handles..Thanks I feel better now
        We just picked up 2 legend sillcocks today, and I never used them before. I'll tell you what...I'm impressed with the construction of these valves. They seem extremely heavy duty, and I love the handle and the way it turns. The biggest shock for me and pop was, it comes with a 5 year warranty! Are legends that good in your opinion? How is the flow that comes out?

        I hear ya on ball valves in where you have to tighten the packing nut....drives me nuts as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ProFlo

          Might be unfair to blame the plumber on this one. I can't speak for them, but I know I've done many houses and never saw the HVAC contractor. Not once.

          Subs are brought in at different times and while I have some idea about placement for future repair, in my experience, others don't always consider it or are human and just sometimes miss it.

          I know you do HVAC too Flux. That puts you in a position to be the most likely to think of the future for both plumbing & HVAC mechanicals. The absolute worst I see here is HVAC for not thinking of this. They don't see pipes or wires as anything but something in the way. Don't look around and move that duct a few inches in case someone has to repair that pipe. Just cut your rough-hole with the skill saw where you normally do. And time after time I'll go back and find several straps cut off the DWV to get a piece of equipment in where it could have been slipped through with no problem 5' to the right.

          And the straps are never put back.

          I had a new house once where the HVAC company just cut the kitchen sink line out of their way. Sometimes it happens where I or another plumber can't anticipate their layout, (remember, we never see each other) but c'mon! At least tell someone if you're not going to repair it.

          "What's that smell under my new house?" Not just one HVAC contractor either. Ran into many of them disregarding others.

          Maybe the plumber just didn't know where these ducts would end up.

          Hosebibbs: I find most to be mediocre now. I run into older Woodfordes now and again that seem indestructible. For my area a person will have the least trouble with a simple boiler drain. And before anyone says it, I can't remember the last time I ran into one of the pipes burst on the crawlspace side when there is a boiler drain only installed in the old way before "Frost Proof" became the norm for the area.

          Thin coppered "Frost Proof" does guarantee some future calls due to the human error of it all.

          I did think I would like the single handle Moen hot/cold hosebiibb. Pricey though. And you have to make a pretty big hole as I recall.


          J.C.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ProFlo

            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
            Might be unfair to blame the plumber on this one. I can't speak for them, but I know I've done many houses and never saw the HVAC contractor. Not once.

            Subs are brought in at different times and while I have some idea about placement for future repair, in my experience, others don't always consider it or are human and just sometimes miss it.

            I know you do HVAC too Flux. That puts you in a position to be the most likely to think of the future for both plumbing & HVAC mechanicals. The absolute worst I see here is HVAC for not thinking of this. They don't see pipes or wires as anything but something in the way. Don't look around and move that duct a few inches in case someone has to repair that pipe. Just cut your rough-hole with the skill saw where you normally do. And time after time I'll go back and find several straps cut off the DWV to get a piece of equipment in where it could have been slipped through with no problem 5' to the right.

            And the straps are never put back.

            I had a new house once where the HVAC company just cut the kitchen sink line out of their way. Sometimes it happens where I or another plumber can't anticipate their layout, (remember, we never see each other) but c'mon! At least tell someone if you're not going to repair it.

            "What's that smell under my new house?" Not just one HVAC contractor either. Ran into many of them disregarding others.

            Maybe the plumber just didn't know where these ducts would end up.

            Hosebibbs: I find most to be mediocre now. I run into older Woodfordes now and again that seem indestructible. For my area a person will have the least trouble with a simple boiler drain. And before anyone says it, I can't remember the last time I ran into one of the pipes burst on the crawlspace side when there is a boiler drain only installed in the old way before "Frost Proof" became the norm for the area.

            Thin coppered "Frost Proof" does guarantee some future calls due to the human error of it all.

            I did think I would like the single handle Moen hot/cold hosebiibb. Pricey though. And you have to make a pretty big hole as I recall.


            J.C.
            You say you cant remember the last time pipes froze and broke in the crawlspace But wouldn't a regular boiler drain be on the outside where it would freeze? Thick coppa will freeze and break also.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ProFlo

              You would absolutely think that. I would. I just don't get calls at some of the old houses where they have a flanged boiler drain exploded from freezing.

              Might have froze and not burst. Or they covered it. Go back there some other time, and while rickety, not busted.


              J.C.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ProFlo

                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                You say you cant remember the last time pipes froze and broke in the crawlspace But wouldn't a regular boiler drain be on the outside where it would freeze? Thick coppa will freeze and break also.
                I am aware that copper and many metallic plumbing items may burst from freezing.

                Thanks.


                J.C.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ProFlo

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  I am aware that copper and many metallic plumbing items may burst from freezing.

                  Thanks.


                  J.C.
                  I believe all metallic plumbing items can freeze and break if they hold water and precautions are not taken.. Not just some.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ProFlo

                    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                    I believe all metallic plumbing items can freeze and break if they hold water. Not just some.
                    Possibly. I haven't seen everything though.


                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ProFlo

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      Might be unfair to blame the plumber on this one. I can't speak for them, but I know I've done many houses and never saw the HVAC contractor. Not once.

                      Subs are brought in at different times and while I have some idea about placement for future repair, in my experience, others don't always consider it or are human and just sometimes miss it.

                      I know you do HVAC too Flux. That puts you in a position to be the most likely to think of the future for both plumbing & HVAC mechanicals. The absolute worst I see here is HVAC for not thinking of this. They don't see pipes or wires as anything but something in the way. Don't look around and move that duct a few inches in case someone has to repair that pipe. Just cut your rough-hole with the skill saw where you normally do. And time after time I'll go back and find several straps cut off the DWV to get a piece of equipment in where it could have been slipped through with no problem 5' to the right.

                      And the straps are never put back.

                      I had a new house once where the HVAC company just cut the kitchen sink line out of their way. Sometimes it happens where I or another plumber can't anticipate their layout, (remember, we never see each other) but c'mon! At least tell someone if you're not going to repair it.

                      "What's that smell under my new house?" Not just one HVAC contractor either. Ran into many of them disregarding others.

                      Maybe the plumber just didn't know where these ducts would end up.

                      Hosebibbs: I find most to be mediocre now. I run into older Woodfordes now and again that seem indestructible. For my area a person will have the least trouble with a simple boiler drain. And before anyone says it, I can't remember the last time I ran into one of the pipes burst on the crawlspace side when there is a boiler drain only installed in the old way before "Frost Proof" became the norm for the area.

                      Thin coppered "Frost Proof" does guarantee some future calls due to the human error of it all.

                      I did think I would like the single handle Moen hot/cold hosebiibb. Pricey though. And you have to make a pretty big hole as I recall.


                      J.C.
                      Maybe we were spoiled, but my father insisted on getting the first 2 days in a new house, so we could get our rough-in done. On the 2nd day, my father would allow the HVAC guy in to cut out his holes if he wanted too. It was nice working in the house first, and nobody else around, but my father beat it into my head about how to lay out PLumbing, so I'm anal about it.

                      Because we also do Heating as well, I just kind of knew where the HVAC guy was going to install his trunk lines or takeoff's. I would always make sure if a takeoff was going into a joist pocket where my water lines where, I would leave him enough room and not hog up the entire bay. I'd even installed 2x4's so he wouldn't need any type of strapping for his run as well.

                      I go back Monday to install these sillcocks, and I'll try to take a picture of what I'm talking about here. But I still blame the Plumber for not getting together with the Heating guy, cause just like our Drain lines, trunk lines can't really be moved either, and we are talking about a development with over a 100 repetitive homes. After the first few homes, it should be a no-brainer where everyone is running their mechanicals.

                      As for the Moen sillcock, I've installed 1 Hot/Cold sillcock, and I liked that as well. It's been in for 3 years now, and so far no complaints yet from the customer.

                      Woodfords I do like a lot, but I want to get away from the plastic handle anymore.

                      I also agree on the frost free propaganda.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ProFlo

                        You can get the same Woodforde with a metal handle. That's what I get.

                        And even better, the oval metal handle with a special feature.

                        Might eliminate your turnover though....


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ProFlo

                          when I lived in JC's neck of the woods we installed flanged boiler drains on new houses, i'd never seen a frost free hose bibb until I moved to missouri. It's cheep, and effective for the area unless the winters there start taking a serious turn for the worse it's just fine. Remember that hose bibbs wouldn't specify frost free unless there were another way to do it.

                          I ran across a house here with 50+ year old galvanized piping, extended through the crawl under his front porch, and extending about 8" out into the elements, with a boiler drain on it for a hose bibb. All that time and I got called out for it because the galvanized had rusted shut, not burst.

                          Of course, now that i've Used woodford frost free hose bibbs, I can't imagine installing a flanged boiler drain.

                          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                          You say you cant remember the last time pipes froze and broke in the crawlspace But wouldn't a regular boiler drain be on the outside where it would freeze? Thick coppa will freeze and break also.

                          Found it, the woodford 101px
                          Last edited by MoJourneyman; 05-07-2011, 08:17 AM. Reason: added link
                          No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ProFlo

                            Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
                            when I lived in JC's neck of the woods we installed flanged boiler drains on new houses, i'd never seen a frost free hose bibb until I moved to missouri. It's cheep, and effective for the area unless the winters there start taking a serious turn for the worse it's just fine. Remember that hose bibbs wouldn't specify frost free unless there were another way to do it.

                            I ran across a house here with 50+ year old galvanized piping, extended through the crawl under his front porch, and extending about 8" out into the elements, with a boiler drain on it for a hose bibb. All that time and I got called out for it because the galvanized had rusted shut, not burst.

                            Of course, now that i've Used woodford frost free hose bibbs, I can't imagine installing a flanged boiler drain.




                            Found it, the woodford 101px
                            Yes we install regular sillcocks most of the time.....usually not boiler drains. The whole purpose of a frostproof faucet is to keep the pressurized portion in the crawlspace or otherwise protected rather than having it exposed on the outside of ther structure. Commercial buildings typically get frostproof here and homes get sillcocks. I typically dont use a boiler drain for a sillcock.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ProFlo

                              showing my ignorance here, What is the difference between a flanged boiler drain and a sillcock?

                              heading out for a bit, hitting up the european market for more lingonberry jam

                              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                              Yes we install regular sillcocks most of the time.....usually not boiler drains. The whole purpose of a frostproof faucet is to keep the pressurized portion in the crawlspace or otherwise protected rather than having it exposed on the outside of ther structure. Commercial buildings typically get frostproof here and homes get sillcocks. I typically dont use a boiler drain for a sillcock.
                              No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                              Comment

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