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Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

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  • #31
    Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    So is it installed correctly and if so how do you know?

    Mark
    No of course I don't but my point is that you seem to be tying the fact he forgot to remove the adapter to qualify him as incompetent to install the new valve and I'm saying you cannot infer one from the other.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

      Nobody in this thread has asked the very important question:


      Was the flex supply replaced when disconnected from the gas valve?

      Was the flex supply twisted/damaged when removed?




      In CA it's required, in KY it's against code. But when you touch one, replace it as it's capable of leaking.
      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

        Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
        Nobody in this thread has asked the very important question:


        Was the flex supply replaced when disconnected from the gas valve?

        Was the flex supply twisted/damaged when removed?




        In CA it's required, in KY it's against code. But when you touch one, replace it as it's capable of leaking.
        No problem. Just get on the phone and tell him how to change it.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

          Maybe ill ask the owner to come here and defend his work. Im amazed that you feel that he's not smart enough to unscrew a few fittings that require nothing more than an open end wrench. The flex im sure was reused as a flare fitting from a stainless flex to steel adapter is not an issue. Brass flexes haven't been around for 30+ years. And aluminum outdates most of us.

          Do you really think everyone thats not a licensed plumber cant touch a simple gas flex connector. Unlike threaded pipe and unions, a flex line will not leak even if just hand tightened. The flared surface has tremendous surface contact. We're talking less than 7" of water column. He soap tested the line and the other connections.

          I would be more concerned about improper venting than a potential gas leak. As gas has an odor and is easily detected, while carbon monxide doesn't have an odor and is not easily detected.

          The 30 minute statement was his thermocouple swap out including the time it took him to get the part. Not sure how long it took him to replace the valve as he did it without calling first. The call was to ask for advise on the flared adapter. By then everything was hooked up and water turned on. Sure he could have gone to the store and purchased another adapter, but at 8 at night, his local hardware store is closed. So he got creative and removed the flared adapter.

          Ive got a good doctor friend that does his own electrical work. That would scare me more than him doing a gas valve. Electrical has way more issues that can go wrong than a simple flared connection.

          Remember this is a direct replacement valve. Nothing to retrofit. Not like a b67 valve that's no longer made and you have to retrofit the connections.

          Now if I want to tear into a pro, how about the sprinter dealership that I paid to change my fuel filter the first time and they used the wrong non approved hose clamps. They're the pros, and I found out 10,000 miles later when I personally changed the filter sitting ontop the manifold. How is it the dealership who we trust uses factory parts, installed ordinary worm clamps on a diesel fuel line.

          Moral is not all pros are as good as they think they are. Backyard mechanics are sometimes just as qualified, sometimes more.

          End of the day, the owner has hot water, no gas leak, and will be calling me again when he has real problems.

          For all you skeptics, better check your hose clamps if you hired a pro. Your engine might catch fire.

          Ben, better check your u bolts too. Your torque wrench is off.

          Rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

            Don't try to throw a smoke grenade to get yourself out of this sticky situation. I'll remember this next time you laugh at me because I question channel locks on a disposal install. You're done on this one Rick, you can't spin it to make it right. lol
            Buy cheap, buy twice.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

              not that much different ben. leaf springs can pose a much bigger hazard to not just yourself.


              you called me before you started the job, then when you were questioning the ubolt torque.


              at least he called a pro. not a backyard mechanic. but to my defense, I've replaced leaf springs, I warned you about properly supporting your truck, and I'm questioning if your torqueee wrench is actually properly working. I would torque it again after the first real road trip and they've seated.


              not much different had this been an auto forum is it?


              we all do work on our own vehicles and outside our trade. nothing wrong with having a go to friend.


              Rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                got a phone call from a good customer on sunday, he had to take a cold shower. his 75 gallon ao smith heater has a bad gas valve. being a sunday and everywhere closed, I talked him through changing the thermocouple. figured it was a cheap try on a sunday. he managed to go to the hardware store and have it swapped in under 30 minutes including the drive to the store to buy it. not bad for a non pro who runs a print shop supply house.

                of course that didn't fix it and he then needed a gas valve. nothing local to his house and had to drive 15 miles to a supply house that had 1 in stock. called me tonight and asked a few questions. 30 minutes later I get a text message from him.

                "thought you would laugh at my makeshift jig. note vice is unbolted. you rock! thanks again for all your help! let's hope it hangs in now. how long to heat up?"


                his mistake was not unscrewing the gas flex adapter from the valve and then having to unwrench the adapter without a secondary back up wrench. so he used a bench vice that wasn't bolted down and an old mag light as a cheater for his old valve. pretty creative and not bad for a guy used to being the big boss man and not the hands on man. and yes he tested the complete system with soapy water too.

                rick.
                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                Maybe ill ask the owner to come here and defend his work. Im amazed that you feel that he's not smart enough to unscrew a few fittings that require nothing more than an open end wrench. The flex im sure was reused as a flare fitting from a stainless flex to steel adapter is not an issue. Brass flexes haven't been around for 30+ years. And aluminum outdates most of us.

                Do you really think everyone thats not a licensed plumber cant touch a simple gas flex connector. Unlike threaded pipe and unions, a flex line will not leak even if just hand tightened. The flared surface has tremendous surface contact. We're talking less than 7" of water column. He soap tested the line and the other connections.

                I would be more concerned about improper venting than a potential gas leak. As gas has an odor and is easily detected, while carbon monxide doesn't have an odor and is not easily detected.

                The 30 minute statement was his thermocouple swap out including the time it took him to get the part. Not sure how long it took him to replace the valve as he did it without calling first. The call was to ask for advise on the flared adapter. By then everything was hooked up and water turned on. Sure he could have gone to the store and purchased another adapter, but at 8 at night, his local hardware store is closed. So he got creative and removed the flared adapter.

                Ive got a good doctor friend that does his own electrical work. That would scare me more than him doing a gas valve. Electrical has way more issues that can go wrong than a simple flared connection.

                Remember this is a direct replacement valve. Nothing to retrofit. Not like a b67 valve that's no longer made and you have to retrofit the connections.

                Now if I want to tear into a pro, how about the sprinter dealership that I paid to change my fuel filter the first time and they used the wrong non approved hose clamps. They're the pros, and I found out 10,000 miles later when I personally changed the filter sitting ontop the manifold. How is it the dealership who we trust uses factory parts, installed ordinary worm clamps on a diesel fuel line.

                Moral is not all pros are as good as they think they are. Backyard mechanics are sometimes just as qualified, sometimes more.

                End of the day, the owner has hot water, no gas leak, and will be calling me again when he has real problems.

                For all you skeptics, better check your hose clamps if you hired a pro. Your engine might catch fire.

                Ben, better check your u bolts too. Your torque wrench is off.

                Rick.
                I was referring to the second 30 minute comment where he called you just prior to completing the valve replacement. If all you did was talk about the thermocouple and you did not know he had purchased the valve I am okay with what you did.

                Mark
                Last edited by ToUtahNow; 12-16-2013, 07:22 AM.
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                  Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                  No of course I don't but my point is that you seem to be tying the fact he forgot to remove the adapter to qualify him as incompetent to install the new valve and I'm saying you cannot infer one from the other.
                  Common sense plays a part in my criticism as well. This was like getting a flat tire on the side of the road and not loosening the lug nuts before jacking up the car. Now your choices are lower the car back down and loose the lug nuts or pile sticks and stones under the tire until the wheel stops turning. What do you do?

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                    No worries, I break out my cordless impact wrench. Doesn't matter if the cars already jacked up

                    He already swapped out the valve and called me about the adapter. I wasn't even aware he found the valve since it was already late when he called.

                    Sure, I would have gone there that evening if he needed me. But he pulled it off and had hot water that night.

                    Rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      No worries, I break out my cordless impact wrench. Doesn't matter if the cars already jacked up

                      He already swapped out the valve and called me about the adapter. I wasn't even aware he found the valve since it was already late when he called.

                      Sure, I would have gone there that evening if he needed me. But he pulled it off and had hot water that night.

                      Rick.
                      First and foremost, your written communication skills suck at times. Secondly, if the guy has to use a MagLite on his 10" crescent wrench, I doubt own a cordless impact wrench.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                        I break out my cordless impact wrench. The key word is "I". Not too many carry a cordless impact in their vehicle.

                        To his credit, a broken mag lite made a unique cheater. I rarely use cheaters as my smaller 10-14" have bike grips. And when I do, I use a piece of emt as its lighter in weight and will bend before my wrench will bend.

                        My meter key gets a cheater 1/2 the time on old curb boxes.

                        Rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          I break out my cordless impact wrench. The key word is "I". Not too many carry a cordless impact in their vehicle.

                          To his credit, a broken mag lite made a unique cheater. I rarely use cheaters as my smaller 10-14" have bike grips. And when I do, I use a piece of emt as its lighter in weight and will bend before my wrench will bend.

                          My meter key gets a cheater 1/2 the time on old curb boxes.

                          Rick.
                          Think it would have enough poop to remove an anoid from W H ?
                          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                            Usually not. You'll probably slip and smash your hands. Or turn the entire heater before it breaks loose.

                            I can't even get my customers to flush their heaters. You expect me to sell them an anoide rod.

                            Keep on wrenching tool. Just don't tell the plumbers, they might blow a gasket.

                            Rick.

                            Rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              Common sense plays a part in my criticism as well. This was like getting a flat tire on the side of the road and not loosening the lug nuts before jacking up the car. Now your choices are lower the car back down and loose the lug nuts or pile sticks and stones under the tire until the wheel stops turning. What do you do?

                              Mark
                              Not that simple. People who have common sense can easily miss a step when in a certain situations such as having a flat on a road vs changing a tire in your garage. But given what had happened I thought he showed some original thinking to get out of the situation rather than having to undo the new valve. So I don't see it in the same negative light as you.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Taught my customer to change a water heater thermocouple and gas valve

                                I've known my Zoeller pump rep for 30 years. He tells me that if I have to cut a pump cord to wire it into an alarm box, I better have a Calif. C-10 license or the warranty on the pump is void.
                                In the same thread, if I'm giving gas line advice to you, you better have at least journeyman training or a Calif. C-36 license which I can verify. Otherwise, forget about it.

                                Comment

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