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  • Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

    A company delivered five tanks of oxygen and five tanks of acetylene to our job site today. We, supervisors, foremen and employees have been told to keep them separated by at least 20 feet and secured in an upright position. In this case I tied the tanks to trees with 16 gauge tie wire probably 30-35 feet apart.

    The delivery man told me that as long as the tanks had the tops screwed on they could be laid on their sides.

    Anyone know what is correct, tied upright or on side as long as the tops are screwed on?

    Thanks,
    -Tom

  • #2
    Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

    Never Never Never ever lay an acetylene bottle of any size on its side. Check the Hobart Weld Talk forum, there are reams of info on why not. But the short answer is the acetone at the bottom will be up at the neck which could come out after gauges and hoses are installed. Transport em upright. Store em upright.
    Cheers,
    Jim Don

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

      the Oxygen tanks can be in any position and even be used, on there sides or what ever, it is a compressed gas. no liquid or any thing, tho most places say to use in a up right position, but many portable welding rigs are now storing and using them on there sides, may be local rules you need to follow. keep the oxygen tank secured so the valve can not be damaged in a fall or other, when ever the cap is removed, it will become a rocket if the valve is knocked off, DO NOT USE ANY OIL ON ANY OXYGEN EQUIPTMENT.

      on the acetylene is a different animal, the acetylene is in the tank and is in a filler material and in that filler material has acetone in it, the acetylene is dissolved in the acetone and if laid on it side it needs to set up right for a min of 30 Min's and preferable longer to let the mixture of acetone and acetylene settle to the bottom of the tank, if you use it on it side it will draw the acetone into the gages and in time will eat the gage insides out, destroying the gage, this is the only way acetylene can be pressurized above 15 pounds of pressure and safely used, other wise above 15 psi it can explode on it own with shock or static, or if is is jsut having a bad day.
      So keep the acetylene upright. if it does get laid over on it side up right it and let is set for a few hrs, and do not use more than 1/7 of the acetylene tank in an hours time if your using it for heating or some high used needs one will need to manifold the tanks together until your below the 1/7 usage, (you will pull the acetone out with the acetylene if you draw it out faster).

      http://www.gas-plants.com/acetylene-storage.html

      http://www.toolboxtopics.com/Gen%20I...lene%20Gas.htm

      http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000701...5/d000785.html
      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
      attributed to Samuel Johnson
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

        Yesterday I took about two hours and drilled six holes in each side of our conex box. Then I inserted and bolted an 'eye' in each hole and attached chain to each eye. I brought the acetylene and oxygen from the trees to which they were wired and chained each in its own upright position, oxygen on one side, acetylene on the other side of the conex.

        Thank you for making me aware of the volitility of acetylene. I had no idea it could be so dangerous. Plus it looks more professional with the bottles chained-up rather than wired to trees.

        We were rained out today but as far as I know our scheduled OSHA inspection was still on. I will know tomorrow at 6:00 AM if there was a deficiency related to the gas bottles.

        -Tom

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

          "as far as I know our scheduled OSHA inspection was still on. I will know tomorrow at 6:00 AM "

          You left that factoid out of your OP, but that's OK, it doesn't change the requirements, only the urgency with which you needed to correct a non-conforming condition.

          I won't repeat what's already been said, 'cause for the most part it's good info. The exception I take is with use of a O2 bottle while laying on its side. I have always been told otherwise (use it upright only), but I don't have time to look it up right now to quote you the section of 1910 or 1926 where this is covered, but unless someone else beats me to it, I will.
          I'm out the door in five minutes on my way to a class.

          BHD, all those links you provided are nice, but they are not the regulations nor do they conform to the Regs. When in doubt go to the source, cause that's what the compliance officer is going to cite you on, not some posting on the CDC or college website or even a gas suppliers website.

          What the heck it only takes a minute to find it, here ya go:
          29CFR1926 Subpart J - Welding and cutting




          1926.350(a)Transporting, moving, and storing compressed gas cylinders.

          1926.350(a)(1)Valve protection caps shall be in place and secured.

          1926.350(a)(2) When cylinders are hoisted, they shall be secured on a cradle, slingboard, or pallet. They shall not be hoisted or transported by means of magnets or choker slings.

          1926.350(a)(3) Cylinders shall be moved by tilting and rolling them on their bottom edges. They shall not be intentionally dropped, struck, or permitted to strike each other violently.

          1926.350(a)(4) When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be secured in a vertical position.

          1926.350(a)(5) Valve protection caps shall not be used for lifting cylinders from one vertical position to another. Bars shall not be used under valves or valve protection caps to pry cylinders loose when frozen. Warm, not boiling, water shall be used to thaw cylinders loose.

          ..1926.350(a)(6)
          1926.350(a)(6)Unless cylinders are firmly secured on a special carrier intended for this purpose, regulators shall be removed and valve protection caps put in place before cylinders are moved.

          1926.350(a)(7) A suitable cylinder truck, chain, or other steadying device shall be used to keep cylinders from being knocked over while in use.

          1926.350(a)(8) When work is finished, when cylinders are empty, or when cylinders are moved at any time, the cylinder valve shall be closed.

          1926.350(a)(9)Compressed gas cylinders shall be secured in an upright position at all times except, if necessary, for short periods of time while cylinders are actually being hoisted or carried.

          1926.350(a)(10)Oxygen cylinders in storage shall be separated from fuel-gas cylinders or combustible materials (especially oil or grease), a minimum distance of 20 feet (6.1 m) or by a noncombustible barrier at least 5 feet (1.5 m) high having a fire-resistance rating of at least one-half hour.

          1926.350(a)(11)Inside of buildings, cylinders shall be stored in a well-protected, well-ventilated, dry location, at least 20 feet (6.1 m) from highly combustible materials such as oil or excelsior. Cylinders should be stored in definitely assigned places away from elevators, stairs, or gangways. Assigned storage places shall be located where cylinders will not be knocked over or damaged by passing or falling objects, or subject to tampering by unauthorized persons. Cylinders shall not be kept in unventilated enclosures such as lockers and cupboards.

          ..1926.350(a)(12)
          1926.350(a)(12)The in-plant handling, storage, and utilization of all compressed gases in cylinders, portable tanks, rail tankcars, or motor vehicle cargo tanks shall be in accordance with Compressed Gas Association Pamphlet P-1-1965.

          1926.350(b) Placing cylinders.

          1926.350(b)(1) Cylinders shall be kept far enough away from the actual welding or cutting operation so that sparks, hot slag, or flame will not reach them. When this is impractical, fire resistant shields shall be provided.

          1926.350(b)(2) Cylinders shall be placed where they cannot become part of an electrical circuit. Electrodes shall not be struck against a cylinder to strike an arc.

          1926.350(b)(3) Fuel gas cylinders shall be placed with valve end up whenever they are in use. They shall not be placed in a location where they would be subject to open flame, hot metal, or other sources of artificial heat.

          1926.350(b)(4) Cylinders containing oxygen or acetylene or other fuel gas shall not be taken into confined spaces.

          1926.350(c) Treatment of cylinders.

          1926.350(c)(1) Cylinders, whether full or empty, shall not be used as rollers or supports.

          ..1926.350(c)(2)
          1926.350(c)(2)No person other than the gas supplier shall attempt to mix gases in a cylinder. No one except the owner of the cylinder or person authorized by him, shall refill a cylinder. No one shall use a cylinder's contents for purposes other than those intended by the supplier. All cylinders used shall meet the Department of Transportation requirements published in 49 CFR Part 178, Subpart C, Specification for Cylinders.

          1926.350(c)(3)No damaged or defective cylinder shall be used.

          [much deleted due to character limit on postings. Follow the link above for the full text. Bob D.]

          ..1926.350(g)(3)
          1926.350(g)(3) Torches shall be lighted by friction lighters or other approved devices, and not by matches or from hot work.

          1926.350(h) Regulators and gauges. Oxygen and fuel gas pressure regulators, including their related gauges, shall be in proper working order while in use.

          1926.350(i) Oil and grease hazards. Oxygen cylinders and fittings shall be kept away from oil or grease. Cylinders, cylinder caps and valves, couplings, regulators, hose, and apparatus shall be kept free from oil or greasy substances and shall not be handled with oily hands or gloves. Oxygen shall not be directed at oily surfaces, greasy clothes, or within a fuel oil or other storage tank or vessel.

          1926.350(j) Additional rules. For additional details not covered in this subpart, applicable technical portions of American National Standards Institute, Z49.1-1967, Safety in Welding and Cutting, shall apply.
          [44 FR 8577, Feb. 9, 1979; 44 FR 20940, Apr. 6, 1979, as amended at 55 FR 42328, Oct. 18, 1990; 58 FR 35179, June 30, 1993]
          Last edited by Bob D.; 09-09-2008, 03:28 PM. Reason: fixed a typo
          "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
          John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

            Bob D,

            Nope! Wrong! Everything was/is coincidental. My original post, a request for information, was prompted by the statement from the delivery driver re storage and transportation of the gasses. My action, chaining the bottles, to make the situation OSHA compliant had to do with making the work site safer.

            This morning when I arrived at work at 6:00 AM the head of our safety dept. was there (we knew something was up because those guys don't get to work until 9:00 AM) and told us our site was one of five within the company that had been chosen for inspection by OSHA. Apparently we are applying for the designation of VPP with OSHA. If we are certified as VPP it will be a prestigious award. The head of our safety dept. told us if we pass the inspection we will be the only construction company of our size in New York State to be certified. NO ONE ON OUR SITE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT A PENDING OSHA INSPECTION UNTIL 6:00 AM THIS MORNING, and frankly I don't know anything about the VPP designation. It started to rain so we left.

            The information supplied by BHD and JimDon spurred me to act. I have since found that I should have posted a 'No Smoking or Open Flames' sign near the bottles. We have DAILY Tool Box Talks. Yesterday, before I chained the bottles, I used the Tool Box Talk to explain the dangers, proper storage and transportation of acetylene and oxygen. Who knew there was acetone in the acetylene bottles and that only 1/7 of a bottle per hour should be used? Now our entire crew knows.

            -Tom

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

              Hi Tom,
              I had no idea that OSHA was involved. If I had known that I would have given you a much better answer:

              When the OSHA guy shows up. Take both the O2 and Acy. bottles and strap them to the OSHA guy with both bottles completely upside down. When he is firmly strapped in, make sure that the covers are off and knock both valves off the two bottles with a BFH. When the OSHA guy hits altitude of about 1,500 feet, scream, "OH, Sh!t," and look around acting embarrassed like you didn't know your actions would result in him taking off like a rocket.
              Just a suggestion.
              Jim Don

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

                Originally posted by JimDon View Post
                When the OSHA guy shows up. Take both the O2 and Acy. bottles and strap them to the OSHA guy with both bottles completely upside down. When he is firmly strapped in, make sure that the covers are off and knock both valves off the two bottles with a BFH. When the OSHA guy hits altitude of about 1,500 feet, scream, "OH, Sh!t," and look around acting embarrassed like you didn't know your actions would result in him taking off like a rocket.
                Just a suggestion.
                Jim Don


                Me: - -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

                  We had our OSHA inspection and there were three deficiencies. (1) An old light plant we were using as a generator had a faulty GFI. (2)The crane book reported a sheave that needed attention and there was no entry it had been corrected. (3)One bank, next to a footer, had a lot of rocks exposed. OSHA wanted us to climb up and throw the rocks down so they wouldn't roll down the bank and hurt someone. Instead we strung out more silt fence and dug it in deeply.

                  The VPP designation for which we were applying was granted. The company execs are happy.

                  Thank you to everyone who supplied information re the acetylene and oxygen. I am sure there would have been an additional deficiency listed without your help.

                  I have this coming week off. I can go up to camp relax, paddle across the river, sneak onto posted land, over 600 acres with an eight foot high fence on three sides and the river on the fourth side, which contains monster bucks, the hunting of which is reserved for executives of a major corporation, and set up some tree stands. I have never done this before and I am mildly conflicted about doing it now, I have been thinking about it since 1968 when we bought the place, but I think I will give it a try. The following week I start a 10-14 month job about 3 miles from camp - current commute is approximately 50 miles each way. I have to develop a persuasive argument to talk my wife into coming up on weekends bringing clean laundry and taking my dirty laundry home. So far it is a no go. It looks as though I will be spending a few bucks a week to pay for a wash and fold service at a laundromat.

                  -Tom

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

                    glad it all went well,
                    enjoy the hunt,
                    and the new job,
                    Last edited by BHD; 09-12-2008, 10:45 PM.
                    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                    attributed to Samuel Johnson
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Oxygen, acetylene and OSHA

                      "spending a few bucks a week to pay for a wash and fold service at a laundromat."

                      Sounds like a tax deduction to me.
                      "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                      John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                      Comment

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