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  • Be Sure You Wear Your Hardhat...

    Pulled a major DA yesterday.

    Working up in the suspended ceiling trying to get some much-needed slack on a cable, I stepped up right into an A/C duct. Right at a seam. Got a 3" gash on top of my head that bleed all day until around 8:00pm. (what finally stopped the bleeding - Liquid Bandage <glorified finger nail polish + super glue>) It happened around 7:30am.
    Since this happened in a college classroom - with students around and other witnesses, I was made an example of.
    Secutiy, EMS, etc. etc. No stitches though.

    Duct w/sharp seam + unprotected head = a completely wasted day of BS.

    Paperwork, paperwork, and more paperwork. And a tetanus shot besides.

    So, the moral of the story -
    Wear your hardhat,
    and
    No matter how much crap you have in your 1st aid kit, you won't have everything covered.
    Phil
    Tools Rule

  • #2
    phil, sorry to hear about your ouch

    i had a similar type of injury in 1983 while standing on a 12' ladder and reaching into a ceiling to get to a 5'' copper joint, my forearm was sliced by a sheet metal stud that was cut off at an angle. at first a couple of band aides stopped the bleeding. then off to the hospital for 9 stitches

    we had to wear hard hats while setting finish inside of the 28 floors of office bathrooms back in the late 80's. i guess we could have been injured by the coat hook on the back of the doors

    it always seemed that the hard hat would cause more head bangs than it protected

    i would lose my periferral vision and hit something just above my head.

    i am a bigger believer in safety glasses than a hard hat. same reason i don't wear steel toe boots

    feel better phil.

    ps. my scar on my arm is not bad after i fixed it. your scar is not bad till you go bald.

    rick.
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 05-03-2006, 11:06 PM.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      when working above a ceiling i make sure i trim off all my extra all thread rod that hangs below hanger . i know you can still get cut on the nut but you will not get a rod into your head .

      i grind the corners of my uni-strut and i make sure all the ducts have no sharp edges.

      there are not to many that think of the next guy
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

      new work pictures 12/09
      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by HVAC HAWK
        when working above a ceiling i make sure i trim off all my extra all thread rod that hangs below hanger . i know you can still get cut on the nut but you will not get a rod into your head .

        i grind the corners of my uni-strut and i make sure all the ducts have no sharp edges.

        there are not to many that think of the next guy
        HVAC

        You are amongst a rare breed these days, someone who still takes pride in their work and takes the extra steps versus the good enough attitude and on to the next job to keep more money rolling in. It is really sad that the corporate world has taught us that pride in ones own workmanship in not priority one and it is becoming a scarce commodity. Congratulations on still taking the time to do the job right. Didn’t mean to get this thread off track, I hope you heal soon Phil.

        Woodslayer

        Comment


        • #5
          Now where does this Corporate World BullShit come from. To suggest that cutting corners comes from the Corporate World is just wrong, wrong, and wrong again.

          It's the customer stupid. I'll say it again, it's the customer stupid.

          Companies cut corners because that's what the customer wants. I build up-scale tract style homes. I hear it all the time, I'd rather have your house because it's built better if you could just match the other guy's price.

          The customer wants quality, but only if it's free. So, they get what they want, crap. But they do save a few bucks.

          Now a true tradesman knows that it's a short term savings and a long term expense. Cutting corners doesn't save money in the long run, but customers just don't care.

          How many times have you seen an addition that looks like crap? The customer went with cheap and got what they bought.

          If customers wanted, and were willing to pay for quality, the big boys would be at the front of the line to provide it. It's about providing a product that sells.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BigThom
            Now where does this Corporate World BullShit come from. To suggest that cutting corners comes from the Corporate World is just wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
            The “corporate world bullshit” comes form the fact that quality has been sacrificed to no end to maximize profits in order to please the shareholders, which in turn allows the executives to justify their 9 digit bonuses. This has become so commonplace that we except it as a way of life and the majority of businesses practice it on a trickle down basis.

            Woodslayer

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK
              phil, sorry to hear about your ouch

              i had a similar type of injury in 1983 while standing on a 12' ladder and reaching into a ceiling to get to a 5'' copper joint, my forearm was sliced by a sheet metal stud that was cut off at an angle. at first a couple of band aides stopped the bleeding. then off to the hospital for 9 stitches

              we had to wear hard hats while setting finish inside of the 28 floors of office bathrooms back in the late 80's. i guess we could have been injured by the coat hook on the back of the doors

              it always seemed that the hard hat would cause more head bangs than it protected

              i would lose my periferral vision and hit something just above my head.

              i am a bigger believer in safety glasses than a hard hat. same reason i don't wear steel toe boots

              feel better phil.

              ps. my scar on my arm is not bad after i fixed it. your scar is not bad till you go bald.

              rick.
              Shoot, I'm so close now the doc didn't shave it or nothing.
              Phil
              Tools Rule

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HVAC HAWK
                when working above a ceiling i make sure i trim off all my extra all thread rod that hangs below hanger . i know you can still get cut on the nut but you will not get a rod into your head .

                i grind the corners of my uni-strut and i make sure all the ducts have no sharp edges.

                there are not to many that think of the next guy
                I wish ALL tradesmen were THAT thoughtful of those that must work around what you built!
                I try to think of those in the future that must get close to the stuff I installed.

                Just a simple act of turning the cut edge of cable ties makes a big difference in how safe and how aesthetically pleasing an install looks. (I never thought of the cable tie thing until a young friend ended up slicing his whole arm open on them. Took several stitches to close this up)

                We tend to learn some things after the fact.
                Phil
                Tools Rule

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by woodslayer
                  HVAC

                  You are amongst a rare breed these days, someone who still takes pride in their work and takes the extra steps versus the good enough attitude and on to the next job to keep more money rolling in. It is really sad that the corporate world has taught us that pride in ones own workmanship in not priority one and it is becoming a scarce commodity. Congratulations on still taking the time to do the job right. Didn’t mean to get this thread off track, I hope you heal soon Phil.

                  Woodslayer
                  Woodslayer,
                  Taking pride in one's work IS the subject here!! It's common sense and a common courtesy to remove all burrs and sharp edges. Fast, shoddy, half-done workmanship is killing this whole country, whether it is in the service industry or manufacturing!
                  Phil
                  Tools Rule

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BigThom
                    ...It's about providing a product that sells....
                    Yep,
                    This is why we're ending up with Kia's, Hyundai's, and Toyota's in the driveways instead of MOM's Apple Pie stuff from the <real> Big Three!
                    Phil
                    Tools Rule

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BigThom
                      It's about providing a product that sells.
                      in a way you are 100% right the quality work one does will sell.

                      like i say "i put my name on all my work" and i do put my name and the date on the company sticker we put on our ac units we put in .

                      now back to the hard hat
                      i was on a job that we were putting pipes under ground be for the building or footings were in .on a 98 degree and very humid day i had my hard hat off and the GC said we had to have it on . i asked Wye he said if you have it on your thinking safety.
                      then i said if I'm wearing my hat to day I'm thinking of getting in to the ac
                      Charlie

                      My seek the peek fundraiser page
                      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                      new work pictures 12/09
                      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        BigThom "Now where does this Corporate World Bull&*&* come from. To suggest that cutting corners comes from the Corporate World is just wrong, wrong, and wrong again."
                        Do you mean the same corporate world that has made the carpool lane assessable to single passenger cars if you buy a $50 pass? Is this the same corporate world that will allow people to work together that can't speak the same language but hey now the labor is cheap and so is the quality.

                        "It's the customer stupid. I'll say it again, it's the customer stupid."
                        It's lazy tradesman who will make you pay through your teeth and do half crap work.

                        "Companies cut corners because that's what the customer wants. I build up-scale tract style homes. I hear it all the time, I'd rather have your house because it's built better if you could just match the other guy's price."
                        Some Companies cut corners to save money, Only after they leave does the costumer find that the work was done sloppy, and will have problems in the future.

                        The customer wants quality, but only if it's free. So, they get what they want, crap. But they do save a few bucks.
                        Most customers don't know quality unless you brag about how it will never have a problem again

                        Now a true tradesman knows that it's a short term savings and a long term expense. Cutting corners doesn't save money in the long run, but customers just don't care.
                        A true tradesman will do whatever it takes to get it done right!
                        Even if it take a day just to be sure it works properly before you go home.


                        How many times have you seen an addition that looks like crap? The customer went with cheap and got what they bought.
                        My parents house was wired with extension cords Why,??? because the home owner did it himself!!!!!

                        If customers wanted, and were willing to pay for quality, the big boys would be at the front of the line to provide it. It's about providing a product that sells.
                        The "BIG BOYS" are often to busy doing million dollar jobs to bother with the small stuff. It is the general contractors to use sub standard sub contractors who want to end the job in the black any way they can.

                        As for the hard had, PhilG, you'll at least remember to expect the worst and then you won't have many more surprises!
                        "Diplomacy is saying nice dodging until you can find a rock." Will Rogers
                        "If a Monkey can do your job, are you in the right profession?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sparks, you missed the point. Sure, customers don't know quality. It's because they don't care enough to find out. Price is what matters to most. Quality is not an issue. Most people will put more effort into selecting a $20,000 car than they will into selecting a $250,000 house.

                          $ per square foot is the standard with customers. The rest doesn't matter. In a way, that is a result of the appraisal process. The appraiser (and customer) don't care if you use insulated steel ducts or flex. They don't care if you sheathe the walls with osb or fiberboard. They don't care if you use 15A circuits or 20A. They don't care that you run both gas and electric to the range and dryer. They just don't care. I spend an extra $3000 per house to use synthetic stucco instead of regular. Much better product. In the sale it's worth $0. My houses are stuffed with that extra quality stuff. 99% of the customers don't care.

                          Several times I've done price comparisons to the tract builders working in my area. I charge more than they. My additional charge covers 1/3 of my cost of the upgrades. That's right, 1/3 of my COST. Yet they sell 100+ times as many houses as I do. Customers just don't care.

                          If someone did care, when making a purchase of $250,000 or more, you would expect they would question, or find someone who would know. NO ONE ever does. It just doesn't happen.

                          Though required, the tract builders don't use treated sill plates, they spray them after framing. This protects the two sides that don't need it. Anyone ever ask? The list of things never ends. Bottom Line, customers don't care enough to pay the extra cost of quality, and it does cost. Someone pays for the extra hours the tradesman puts in to do a top-notch job. Someone pays for the better materials. If the customer is unwilling, to pay for quality, why would the general subsidize it.

                          If the tradesman wants to put in that extra few hours to do it correctly, who pays. The sub contractor can't get more for it because the general won't pay. The general can't get more for it because the CUSTOMER WON'T PAY.

                          In the end, quality is the customers choice. There are plenty of tradesmen and contractors who have the ability to provide top quality, but asking them to work for less in order to provide it to a custome who want's it only if it's free is just wrong.

                          I build houses in New Mexico. Many of our tradesmen don't speak english. Without Mexicans we couldn't build the houses that are demanded. Typically I see that Mexicans work harder, neater, and they clean up. They have a greater desire for respect than their US collegues, and they don't have that Prima-Donna attitude. So communication is difficult. We just find an interpreter. In my case, it's my wife if there is no one on site that's bi-lingual, but that's unusual.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sparks, you missed the point. Sure, customers don't know quality. It's because they don't care enough to find out. Price is what matters to most. Quality is not an issue. Most people will put more effort into selecting a $20,000 car than they will into selecting a $250,000 house.

                            $ per square foot is the standard with customers. The rest doesn't matter. In a way, that is a result of the appraisal process. The appraiser (and customer) don't care if you use insulated steel ducts or flex. They don't care if you sheathe the walls with osb or fiberboard. They don't care if you use 15A circuits or 20A. They don't care that you run both gas and electric to the range and dryer. They just don't care. I spend an extra $3000 per house to use synthetic stucco instead of regular. Much better product. In the sale it's worth $0. My houses are stuffed with that extra quality stuff. 99% of the customers don't care.When i look at a house I'm the other 1%

                            Several times I've done price comparisons to the tract builders working in my area. I charge more than they. My additional charge covers 1/3 of my cost of the upgrades. That's right, 1/3 of my COST. Yet they sell 100+ times as many houses as I do. Customers just don't care. The people buy the house don't oversee the construction, when the move in all the screw ups are covered or fixed before they buy it. They don't car because they can't tell if there is a problem or not. But they do find out is things start going wrong.

                            If someone did care, when making a purchase of $250,000 or more, you would expect they would question, or find someone who would know. NO ONE ever does. It just doesn't happen. My sister in law took her brother through a home she thought about buying. Since she had no idea what to look for. She later had me go through and check out the electrical work in the house. People do care, but they often get screwed by the developer that's in it for some fast easy money.

                            Though required, the tract builders don't use treated sill plates, they spray them after framing. This protects the two sides that don't need it. Anyone ever ask? The list of things never ends. Bottom Line, customers don't care enough to pay the extra cost of quality, and it does cost. Someone pays for the extra hours the tradesman puts in to do a top-notch job. Someone pays for the better materials. If the customer is unwilling, to pay for quality, why would the general subsidize it. I have worked on track homes the buyers never look at the place until it is finished, yet the people that buy larger custom homes they will come buy and check on it. The developer's/general's i have seen don't care about the quality they see $$$$$$$.

                            If the tradesman wants to put in that extra few hours to do it correctly, who pays. The sub contractor can't get more for it because the general won't pay. The general can't get more for it because the CUSTOMER WON'T PAY. What event did you observe to back this statement? When i leave a job it was done right and everything worked! Some people are in it for only the money, and will always cut corners!

                            In the end, quality is the customers choice. There are plenty of tradesmen and contractors who have the ability to provide top quality, but asking them to work for less in order to provide it to a customer who wants it only if it's free is just wrong.A lot of what happens during the building of a house the customer never sees. Asking them to work for less encourages them to hire more cheap labor, which brings lower quality of work.

                            I build houses in New Mexico. Many of our tradesmen don't speak English. Without Mexicans we couldn't build the houses that are demanded. Typically I see that Mexicans work harder, neater, and they clean up. Without Mexicans we wouldn't have so-many people out in the street since they can't make enough to support them selves. Sure there are some that just can't keep a job, but others just can't work for what big business wants to pay them. Typically it's the Mexicans that bad mouth the USA in the porta johns, why because they get so little for their work and up in kaysville, they had to show a green card or work permit to stay on the job. As for the neater and cleaner i know some Mexicans are real good at cleaning up, others garbage, dirt, parts pilled in a corner, did i mention PARTS PILLED IN A CORNER! I know it may be unfair to do hasty generalizations but, when i tell someone that i will take care of my stuff and then as soon as i leave the area they toss $60 worth of parts! cheap labor = low quality!!!
                            "Diplomacy is saying nice dodging until you can find a rock." Will Rogers
                            "If a Monkey can do your job, are you in the right profession?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Big Thom:
                              To keep it nice, I will say you are naive. I moved to NC from FL due to family concerns. I searched and asked and went to the most reputable contractor in the area (existing homes on the market did not meet our needs or required extensive repair/upgrade). I was only able to make one trip up during construction due to my job. On of the things that impressed me was that during our initial search, we visited one of this contractors houses where he had his quality contol guy going through checking everything out to make sure it was "quality". The homes we were able to look at were those not under contract. I paid extra to get all brick and to get the driveway a full 2 car width to the street (2 car garage but they narrowed the driveway on most of the homes, and this is the top drawer guy). Bought the house and did the walkthrough, a week late and furniture on the way.
                              After moving in, found a few discrepancies. What I got was excuses and half=a$$ed fixes. Then I find that 3 weeks after the closing, the contractor and his lawyer change the deed and plat to allow a sewer easement across my property (taking almost 1/2 acre) to fix a percolation problem with 4 other houses that stemmed from him paying off the county sanitation department (the individual who did it got fired but the "rich folk" didn't get squat!). Only after seeing a letter I drafted to the state attorney general, NC bar association, better business bureau, did the lawyer and the contractor "realize" they "made a mistake" and proceeded to correct it. Six months later and we are almost done.
                              Not to mention that I have had to realign EVERY door striker plate because most wouldn't stay closed and the others would latch occasionally, and I now have $1000 into fixing the rain water running under my foundation. I have told the contractor if any of his people set foot on my land I will have them arrested for trespassing. As I find things, I fix them myself to the fullest extent possible.
                              I looked for quality. I paid for quality. I did not get what I paid for and don't have the money left to hire another crooked lawyer to challenge one the the richest people in the area.
                              THAT is the reality. You guys boast and post about hiring "professionals" and "quality" , but the reality is that it is a rare commodity.
                              One of the reasons I regularly visit this forum is so I DO know quality and and so I know how to find the HVAC Hawks and Dave D.s etc when I do need a professional. But quality is getting harder to find here abouts.
                              I will agree with you on one thing, I have watched other houses going up near here. The most professional, efficient, and "quality" work I have seen was four spanish-speaking guys putting on the roofs of these 12/12 pitch houses. They worked hard, did not stint on nails or felt, aligned the shingles expertly, and got the job done a lot faster than I would have thought possible. I will admit that it was evident that OSHA was nowhere around and I also realize they were doing what they had to do to make a living. Regardless, that blame lays on the people employing them, but they did good work.
                              Rant over
                              Practicing at practical wood working

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