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Virginia Tech

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  • Virginia Tech

    Just a few seconds ago I turned on the T.V..

    What is this world coming to.

    I wonder how much worse it is going to get before it gets better.

    my thoughts are with those who have just lost so much.

    Adam.

  • #2
    Re: Virginia Tech

    drty hands i hear you loud and clear. but some of the things that need to happen to provide our kids a better tomarrow is this.

    1. don't hide or shelter your kids from thinds like this, they are people too, take the time to explain what is happening and how you feel about this and how they feel about it.(you just might be suprized)


    2.spend some time with your kids fishing camping bike riding YOU HAVE TO BRING THE FAMILY MORALS INTO THER LIVES!!! cause if you don't.... who will?


    3. yes you parents need to get involved with the schools. you have to do this. put down the remote 3-5 times a year and go to the P.T.A. meetings.



    4. again put down the dang remote, turn off the computer, and the cell phones (my god this man must be crazy, turn off my life!?!?!?) pull out a borad game or a deck of cards and play a game with your kids.


    5. go to a car show, or a museum (place where art and old stuff are ) make every day a day you all learn something.



    6. please for the love of god show a genuine interest in your kids, what you do now will affect your kids 20, 30 50 years from now. please make the best desitions that you can. buying your kid every thing he or she wants IS NOT LOVE.


    doing these things will give your kids a sence of pride, common sence, team work, leader ship, family unity,and a better quaity of life, witch in return will lowwer the rate of kids doing the type of things that has happened today at virgina tech. will these things every stop? no sadly i don't forsee that, but you can give your kids the tools that won't make them be the next one we hear about on the news.





    God please rest the souls that have died today at Virgina tech
    9/11/01, never forget.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Virginia Tech

      Well put, oldslowchevy, well put!!!!!!!!!
      See there are wise men in this forum, and I'm sure there are many of them here.
      Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

      http://www.contractorspub.com

      A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Virginia Tech

        garager thank you, but i am not a wise man by any means. i just know how to use my head and i just talk to my kid like he is my friend witch now gives me a son and a friend, what more could any man ask for?
        9/11/01, never forget.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Virginia Tech

          You have to know all of the anti-gun people are going to scream to take our guns away now. I raised my three boys around hunting and fishing and taught them a respect for firearms. Today my oldest son is a Captain in the Army flying Apaches, my middle son is a Police Officer for the City of Los Angeles and my youngest son is a California Highway Patrol officer. Maybe instead of banning guns we should teach more kids to handle firearms.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Virginia Tech

            OSC,

            Wise and touching comments. Our children should be our greatest pride and joy, our greatest responsibility in the present, and our greatest gift to the future. The loss of a child is a sorrow that no parent should have to bear and this terrible event reminds most of us how quickly things can change. We need to cherish each opportunity that we have to be with our loved ones.

            Thanks for a very wise and thoughtful post.

            *****
            Let me apologize for the rant right up front, but sometimes you've just got to stand up:

            ToUtahNow,

            After three days of listening to the events that surround this terrible tragedy, I found your comment, "You have to know all of the anti-gun people are going to scream to take our guns away now" rather callous and insensitive. I sure hope this wasn't your first response to this insane act!

            With all the news, shock, and expressions of sorrow that I have seen and read in these past few days; yours Sir, is the first mention of any gun infringements; and, with not so much as a single word of sympathy. I guess your understanding of this event is greatly overshadowed by the importance of your hobby. Too bad the parents and friends of those who have died aren't broadminded enough to understand your plight.

            I'm not anti-gun, but I find it quite sad that, at this early point in time, you felt it necessary to cry out on the side of the murder weapon. Do you really feel so put upon by the loss of these lives that you think, "Maybe instead of banning guns we should teach more kids to handle firearms"? I figure maybe you're just having a bad day, because surely you are much more worthy than such statements imply. I would say that the murderer of over thirty people in the course of two hours was quite the testimony, that someone's kid knew how to "handle firearms" quite well, wouldn't you agee?

            The gun hobby/lobby is probably the strangest of all interest, in my opinion. I can't think of a single hobby or pastime where the participants feel that it should be without any safeguards or restrictions of any kind, or that any and everyone deserves the right to participate. Even in woodworking, we are recognizant of the fact that there are simply some people who shouldn't go near a table saw. It seems incomprehensible that any person should take a stance against the unrestricted sale and possession of a weapon that can so easily be used to snuff the life of another human being.

            Even in my hobby (Ham Radio), it's harder to get licensed and buy a rig then it is to get a firearm in some places. The sales guy usually wants your call sign and you have to take a Federal exam, get ID'd, and have a number of certified people check you out, each step of the way. It also takes two or three weeks before you get your license and once you're operational, you're being monitored by both the government as well as every other licensed operator. Something as simple as not properly identifying, or uttering a profanity can bring an inquiry from a number of sources and may even cost you, your license; and, this goes on for the rest of your operational life! You might also want to note that the majority of licensed operators are loud and clear in their support of these rules. You'd think with all of that fuss, there'd be at least one case in the history of the hobby, where someone got talked to death.

            Unfortunately with the gun hobby, the fewer restrictions the better; which in my mind anyway, is rather bizarre. Is there no pride or thoughts of self-esteem with regard to gun ownership and its responsibility. Somehow "learning to handle it" doesn't do much for the victims does it? I don't ever recall reading or hearing a news story where the people behind these murderous events were noted as "not being able to handle" their weapons? On the contrary, they seem to handle them all too well!. Learning to be safe and proficient with a piece, seems to be only a little bit harder than buying it.

            I know, "Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People!" True indeed, and as often pointed out, a person could have used a baseball bat or a kitchen knife. But guns just bring such ease and efficiency to the process, don't ya think? It's rather difficult to defend yourself from one of those people when they're leveling a automatic weapon, or in this case a semi-automatic, concealable hand-gun with quick-change, high-capacity clips. Using your school book doesn't appear to be much of a defense does it?


            At the very least, I would think that the NRA and any gun owner would be embarrassed by such tragedies. Is it really so hard to be concerned for the victims here, to have a moment where one might cry, "This is terrible, how can this happen, how can we allow such nuts to obtain a weapon?" Is the simple thought of having such an organization as the NRA stand up and usher forth it's membership to "guard" the American people against such travesties? As a gun owner, don't you feel that having restrictions and safeguards in place, so that only right-thinking, honest, law-abiding people like yourself can obtain a firearm? Is it not only a responsibility, but also something that you can take pride in, knowing how difficult it is to become properly licensed?

            Perhaps I'm just dull-witted or something, but I just don't want to share an interest where it's so easy that just anyone can do it. Is it not a difficulty for you, knowing that somehow, someone, somewhere, exploited the advantages of easy access to kill someone's child or destroy the lives of so many. How would I ever justify the fact that the hobby I supported was largely responsible for making so many deaths so easy. I think we have somehow forgotten that the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" was written to protect every citizen from the tyranny of government. It was written for a responsible citizen as a means to protect both family and neighbor, as well as freedom. What we now have is a self-serving disconnection from those responsibilities. The right of gun ownership goes far beyond possesion, sport or general interest. A gun, no matter what the owner intends, is by its very design and nature, a weapon. Possesion of such weapons bears an awful responsibility and it should never be taken so lightly.

            I think we have lost sight of the fact that such bull-headed defense of this right, without consideration of those less worthy, allows them to destroy not only our loved ones and our neighbors; but in so doing, it jeopardizes the very rights that we are supporting and continuing to lobby for.

            As an American, I think we should have the right to own a gun, whether it be for sport, interest, or safety. But we have no right whatsoever to purchase, possess, and use with harmful intent. We must also recognize that we also have the right not possess such weapons, without regard for our family's peace and security. Afterall, we are supposedly no longer a lawless frontier. But either way, we should be able to live peaceably and with safety for our families ensure.

            Gun ownership must come with special responsibility, because the very nature of technology applied to modern weapons makes them capable of terrifying destruction against masses of victims. Like with any responsibility we must hold the possesion of such weapons to the highest of standards. Therefore, we must understand that availability without regard to standards is foolish at best and suicidal at worst. For the benefit of our families, as well as ourselves, such responsibility must be serious and it must be re-examined from time to time to ensure those standards are met. Above all, we must bear in mind that our defense of these rights and responsibilities is for the freedom and safety of our families and our neighbors. Without recognizing the latter, we have lost our sense of humanity.

            CWS

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Virginia Tech

              The root of this tragedy was in what oldslow talked about. Regardless of what caused the mental state this guy was in he was very disturbed and needed help. People view their children as hinderences and unwanted responsibility instead of opportunties to raise quality impactful members of society. We are a selfish society and we wont even give up time for our kids anymore.

              In ToUtahNow's defense many of us think instantly of the impact on our lives and thats natural. Its hard to put ourselves into the shoes of other who were truely effected. I highly doubt that Utah's first thought was oh no here comes the anti gun laws. Its hard to interpret meaning being posts on a forum.

              This may sound callus and jerky but it bothers me how a tragedy like this can send the whole country into a media frenzy. Masacers thousands of times worse than this happen in other countries like Rawanda and most Americans know nothing about it. 150 people died in Iraq the other day and that was barely mentioned. Sorry just my opinion.

              Anyways... Lets get this discussion back on the event not beliefs or stances on anti this or that. If we are truely focused on the tragedy then lets talk about it not fight about politics.

              Lets keep the can of worms as closed as possible.

              Josh

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Virginia Tech

                CWSmith,

                While my comments may have seemed callous to you I meant no disrespect. I have been a sportsman my entire life and all I ever here from the anti-gun groups is we need to ban guns. Guns are a tool plain and simple and they do not have the capacity to operate on their own.

                Who failed those unfortunate people at Virginia Tech? You have a mad man who had been diagnosed as being a danger to himself and to others less than two years ago and he is allowed to inter act with not just society but within a college where no one had a clue to the danger he posed. What is sad is the same liberals who want to restrict my rights as a gun owner argue to protect the privacy of those who have been judged as a danger to others.

                When you talk about restrictions on guns keep in mind I live in California which has very strict gun laws. I have no problem with strict gun laws as I feel they are necessary. I actually turned in my NRA membership when I saw the NRA had gone too far to the extreme but then rejoined when I saw what some of the anti gun groups wanted to do.

                I keep hearing the shooters guns were obtained legally according to Virginia laws. If that is in fact true than there is something wrong with Virginias laws. However, instead of talking about tougher gun laws in States like Virginia the anti-gun groups are already talking about banning all guns. How would you feel if every time you turned around there was a group of “anti-Ham Radio” people trying to take your ham radio away without any consideration for the care you take to be responsible?

                A former classmate of Cho’s had this to say regarding Cho’s writings “The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of." To me it sounds as though Cho would have carried out his violence one way or another regardless of the weapon. It is no wonder that within the hallow halls of a school like Virginia Tech Cho did not build a bomb and take out an entire dorm. This man was sick and his plan was to take out as many people as he could regardless of the means. Cho was also a writer and I’m sure time will show that while he internalized his problems in public those problems festered on paper. Do we ban writings next?

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Virginia Tech

                  I would agree with toutahnow comments. This is a allfull event to happen but People are getting killed all over the world. not just are back yard of america.
                  If These folks are christian faith Then they are with God, and what could be better. GOD is in control right. If you ban gun you will never get them all they are like drugs they are every where. Some person should have remove this guy from the school long before this. just like 9/11 some people didnot do there job... God Bless the family of these souls ...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Virginia Tech

                    Josh-

                    I think it's time this thread was locked.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Virginia Tech

                      Mark,

                      I understand your position and personally, I'm not at all against the responsible ownership of guns. I did find your earlier post alarming only because it seemed to divert from the tragedy into another, here we go again, they're gonna take my guns away. I probably should not have interpreted it that way, but I did.

                      It certainly wasn't my intention to insult or to provoke an argument. But I did want the reader to think about the situation. As you mentioned, licensing in some states, and probably most, is fairly stringent and I'm sure this results in the overwhelming majority of gun enthusiasts being honest and responsible
                      citizens. But there are areas in this country where the legal purchase of a firearm is all too easy, and we must ask ourselves, Why?

                      Mr. Cho, in spite of his recent stalkings, his mental profile, lack of character support, and lack of citizenship, was able to legally purchase a hand-gun with little more than a credit card and a driver's license. So Mark, if you and I have to "step through a few hoops" to get a firearm, why was it so easy for him?

                      In this particular case, the rules were entirely too easy, and that's the point. We must acknowledge that there are victims out there, and that firearms are the weapon of choice. We must have regulations that are applied in a manner that doesn't prevent you or any other legitimate gun enthusiast from possessing firearms. But in addition, we all must be rational enough to take the necessary steps to ensure that criminals and the mentally disturbed be stifled in their attempt to carry out their crimes.

                      Thanks for your reply, I'm done.

                      CWS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Virginia Tech

                        Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                        Mark,

                        I understand your position and personally, I'm not at all against the responsible ownership of guns. I did find your earlier post alarming only because it seemed to divert from the tragedy into another, here we go again, they're gonna take my guns away. I probably should not have interpreted it that way, but I did.

                        It certainly wasn't my intention to insult or to provoke an argument. But I did want the reader to think about the situation. As you mentioned, licensing in some states, and probably most, is fairly stringent and I'm sure this results in the overwhelming majority of gun enthusiasts being honest and responsible
                        citizens. But there are areas in this country where the legal purchase of a firearm is all too easy, and we must ask ourselves, Why?

                        Mr. Cho, in spite of his recent stalkings, his mental profile, lack of character support, and lack of citizenship, was able to legally purchase a hand-gun with little more than a credit card and a driver's license. So Mark, if you and I have to "step through a few hoops" to get a firearm, why was it so easy for him?

                        In this particular case, the rules were entirely too easy, and that's the point. We must acknowledge that there are victims out there, and that firearms are the weapon of choice. We must have regulations that are applied in a manner that doesn't prevent you or any other legitimate gun enthusiast from possessing firearms. But in addition, we all must be rational enough to take the necessary steps to ensure that criminals and the mentally disturbed be stifled in their attempt to carry out their crimes.

                        Thanks for your reply, I'm done.

                        CWS
                        CWS,

                        I uncerstand how I may have come off un-carrying as I started in the middle of my concerns and not in my primary concern. Sometimes when you are active on multuiple sites you do not always pay attention to where you are in your feelings. To be clear I took the day of the shooting off and sat in my office watching the news. I was and still am a mess over this whole thing. So many lives in such a short time and so many affected by the loss. I was glad to see they have asked for an outside investigation. I believe a lot of mistakes were made and I pray we can learn from them

                        I'm fairly certain it will turn out Cho's purchase was not a legal purchase. If for no other reason the application would have asked if he is or ever was mentally ill and obvious he lied about it. Still it seems the gun laws in Virginia are too easy and should be revised.

                        On the other extreme, just yesterday the California Senate approved a Bill in the Assembly which will require a back ground check to buy handgun ammo and limit shooters to a maximum of 50-rounds per month. I collect guns like some collect watches. I am facinated with the work which goes into making a gun and currently own 8-handguns. If this Bill passes I will be limited to just over 6-rounds per month per gun. In other words my days of target shooting on my own property would be over.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Virginia Tech

                          like the students are saying have faith and do not make the killer the top of all the stories and talk about the people that lost there lives .
                          I'm from PA where the man entered a Amish school and killed some kids .and we can learn from the Amish to have faith .the first people the Amish wanted to make sure they helped was the families that lost some one and the killers wife and kids . yes they wanted to help the killers family also.

                          its not right to start fighting over this but to try to make it so it does not happen again .
                          so have faith and think of the families that lost love ones .
                          Charlie

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                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Virginia Tech

                            Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                            like the students are saying have faith and do not make the killer the top of all the stories and talk about the people that lost there lives .
                            I'm from PA where the man entered a Amish school and killed some kids .and we can learn from the Amish to have faith .the first people the Amish wanted to make sure they helped was the families that lost some one and the killers wife and kids . yes they wanted to help the killers family also.

                            its not right to start fighting over this but to try to make it so it does not happen again .
                            so have faith and think of the families that lost love ones .
                            That's my look on it Hawk,there is much I would like to vent.But most important for me to say, my prayers are for those who are in sorrow.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Virginia Tech

                              I'm a Virginian. I have lived here all my life. My husband went to Tech. There are so many families near to us affected by this horrifying tragedy. I'd like to call your attention to some of the selfless acts, one in particular. A professor, a survivor of the Nazi death camps of WWII, saved his class by barring the classroom door with his body and yelling at the kids to get out the window. This brave gentleman was killed, but the kids in his class lived. Let us celebrate that man and his deed. Let us take that lesson that while there are incredibly stupid incredibly messed up people in this world, they are the few. The brave and the selfless are the many. May God keep those kinds near him, and may we find a way to console those who lost so much that terrible day.

                              I'm also a Virginian who hunts, and owns guns. I will say that Virginia's firearm purchase laws are relatively stringent, all things considered. I do think that ALL firearm laws should be reviewed and probably replaced with a more appropriate system. Just because I have to wait 7 days for a pistol doesn't mean diddly.

                              Anyway, this thread should be about those kids. I hope to God we never have to go through anything like this again. All we can do is try to be the best PARENTS (note...parent first!! Your kids will have all kinds of friends...they only get one set of parents), try to keep our kids healthy and teach them how to respect others.
                              I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

                              Comment

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