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What is a "Master _______"?

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  • What is a "Master _______"?

    Just to start, this isn't a flippant question and I'm not trying to run anybody down.
    Here goes;
    I often hear people describe themselves as Master Woodworker, Master Plumber, Master Electrician, etc. My question is (again, I'm being serious) what is the defining characteristic for someone to refer to themselves that way? Is it years of experience, skill level, both? More?
    What's your take on this?
    ‎"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: What is a "Master _______"?

    A Master Plumber in my area means they worked in the field for at least 6 years, with around 10,000 documented hours and was able to pass not only the Journeymen, but Master Exams as well.

    You have to watch it though, a lot of guys mask the fact that their still Helpers technically and call themselves 'Mechanics'. Also just because their a master doesn't mean they know everything about that field/trade, but it does show they put their time into it.
    Proud To Be Union!!

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    • #3
      Re: What is a "Master _______"?

      Thanks for the input.
      16 and working for a living? You are a rarity these days. Congrats.
      ‎"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain

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      • #4
        Re: What is a "Master _______"?

        lol thanks, and if they didn't go to school for their degree, chances are they're a dumbass who squeezed by putting in his 10,000 hours and just took the tests, which aren't long and are open book in my area.

        Anyone that turns down 7 years of education, which involves their career is just crazy to me.
        Proud To Be Union!!

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        • #5
          Re: What is a "Master _______"?

          You're a rare breed today young man. Most young people I know (mostly in late teens and early 20s.) don't want to work, don't know how to work, don't want to go to school, don't want to learn anything new, don't want to do anything but party, party, party. Keep up the good work. Party some, but not too much, have FUN at work (that is possible, believe me), and keep your nose to the grindstone. You will go far. You WILL be successful. You WILL learn a lot, and you'll have a heck of a lot of fun along the way. You will also be revered by those around you, and questioned by all the dumba$$es who would not learn a thing when they could.
          Just an attaboy for a good standup citizen,
          Jim Don

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          • #6
            Re: What is a "Master _______"?

            Originally posted by res057 View Post
            Just to start, this isn't a flippant question and I'm not trying to run anybody down.
            Here goes;
            I often hear people describe themselves as Master Woodworker, Master Plumber, Master Electrician, etc. My question is (again, I'm being serious) what is the defining characteristic for someone to refer to themselves that way? Is it years of experience, skill level, both? More?
            What's your take on this?
            well since you're out here in this neck of the woods

            we don't use the term master we use journeyman and contractor.

            the journeyman is the licensed (plumber) and the contractor is the state licensed business. meaning he is the one who is legally responsible for the operations of the business.

            sort of like a real estate agent and a real estate broker

            rick.
            phoebe it is

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            • #7
              Re: What is a "Master _______"?

              I'm really starting to learn all the differences in the regions and differences between east and west coast. Here's it's a Journeymen Plumber(very few) alot of "Mechanics" that can't pass the test, and Masters(good ole' boys, usually in thier 50's or so, and completely out of the new plumbing scene)
              Proud To Be Union!!

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              • #8
                Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                This question ended up in Woodnet's forum 2 weeks ago, because some guy's wife called him a master carpenter and he is displaying this statement on his website. What a blow out on that topic at Woodnet, something like a 100 responses saying its ok for this guy to call himself a Master Carpenter. Master Carpenter (not Master Woodworker) and all he builds is furniture, nice stuff too, I may add. But a Master Carpenter is a whole lot more than that. I think when your at the stage that you can teach teachers, and you no longer need to ask questions about your occupation (trade) and "other people" are calling you a Master, then I think your there. Knowledge, wisdom and skills, are the ingredients (or did I leave something else out). Master is something you earn from blood, sweat and tears, also lets not leave out all the mistakes that were made to get there. This is only my opinion. Now lets see if Ridgid's forum can get a 100 responses to this topic as Woodnet did...Garager...
                Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                http://www.contractorspub.com

                A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

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                • #9
                  Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                  Maybe I've always had the wrong idea of this. I had always thought of this as the union designations of apprentice, journeyman, master, etc. You start out as apprentice, then as you take tests and get your experience you work up the ladder towards journeyman. A master is only granted to certain people that acheive a very high level at their chosen field. At least, out here on the East coast that seems to be the way it is.
                  I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

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                  • #10
                    Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                    Master Plumber is a term which is used in about half of the States in the United States. Depending on the State you are working in it may require length of time on the job (5+ years in most), paying a fee, passing a test and continuing education.

                    The difference between a Journeyman Plumber and a Master Plumber (in States which use the term) is a Journeyman Plumber does all of the work a Master Plumber does but still works under the supervision of a Master Plumber. A Master Plumber is a plumber who supervises others and does not need to be supervised by others. I would hope anyone with 10 or more years in Plumbing would qualify as a Master Plumber by default. Many in this forum are Master Plumbers whether they have been issues the title or not.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                    • #11
                      Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                      I believe there are two types those on paper, and those who have earned it by blood sweat and tears,
                      some are one and the same,
                      and some have no paper work,

                      IN to days world, most are concerned about pedigree, and not what a person can actually accomplish,

                      example: back in the 1950's my uncle who was a poor dirt farmer, and worked part time at the "new cooperative telephone company" helping string the wire for the old party line ringer type telephone, one day decided to GO WEST, and west he did go, he went to California, and started out working as a plaster, and he heard about a job opening in a new industry and applied, the industry was the fledgling AEROSPACE industry, In his career he worked for nearly all the big names, Lockheed, Rockwell international, Martin Marietta,
                      and possibly others, he worked on ever maned space flight,
                      and he did not jsut work on them, but on the saturn V rocket he was the electrical engineer in charge of the second stage booster,
                      He Helped designed and was the procurement officer for the main clock in the space shuttle, he was the electrical engineer in charge of the Bombay of the B1 bomber, and on countless other projects, (and I checked on this this week end), he never had a degree of any kind in engineering or electrical or any other thing), one other interesting thing I found out this week end, I knew he went to night school while he worked as a plaster when he first arrived in California, His daughter indicated after a few weeks he was teaching some of the classes at the school, not a student.

                      I believe that my Uncle was a Master, no he never had a paper that said that, but I know his friends and companies he worked for thought he was one.

                      Now to day what he did would be nearly impossible, as if you don't have the paper work most will not look at you, they will not let you show them your skill or knowledge,

                      The paper work only means that you passed your tests, and put in time.
                      It really doesn't show if you know a thing about how to do something or if your good at it.

                      Many who have the paper work are exceptional and gifted persons, and there are many persons who have never taken a test but have put in the time and have the talent, and are exceptional gifted work men as well.

                      I personally believe that when a persons reputation puts him at the top of the game, and what others think and believe about one is what makes one a Master, not the paper work.
                      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                      attributed to Samuel Johnson
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                      • #12
                        Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                        BHD,
                        That's a great story and I cannot agree with you more. I've known guys that have been "finish carpenters" for 20, 30, 40 years that are the worlds biggest hacks and I've seen guys show up at job sites with their first set of tools, still shiny, that pick it up right away and suck up any tips and tricks you are willing to throw their way.So who is the "master"? The guy who has risen through the ranks of the company by simply being their forever, or the new kid who has seemless miters without putties, spackle, caulking, etc?
                        ‎"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain

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                        • #13
                          Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                          "Master" is a loose term these days, my Great Grandfather was a Master carpenter(he could do anything with hand tools, no power back then). I consider myself a Journyman welder, I still have a great deal to learn after years in the buisness. In my trade there are no licences to denote apprentice, journyman, and master. A Master is a person who can take on all aspects of the trade and then some. As well as teach the next generation. I could type a novel but do not want to ramble.

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                          • #14
                            Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                            Originally posted by TozziWelding View Post
                            "Master" is a loose term these days, my Great Grandfather was a Master carpenter(he could do anything with hand tools, no power back then). I consider myself a Journyman welder, I still have a great deal to learn after years in the buisness. In my trade there are no licences to denote apprentice, journyman, and master. A Master is a person who can take on all aspects of the trade and then some. As well as teach the next generation. I could type a novel but do not want to ramble.
                            Well put... For being so short...
                            Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                            http://www.contractorspub.com

                            A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What is a "Master _______"?

                              I haven't thought about this a lot but I would say a Master is someone who can infer knowledge gained from education, training or experience to a new situation/problem, and successfully solve/fix the problem. I like what TozziWelding says about teaching the next generation. Not only should a Master be able to teach the next generation they should also be willing to teach.

                              Along these lines, one of the things I have thought about a lot is the development of a test similar to a standard I.Q. test where craftsmen or others not necessarily associated with academia can be tested against some preestablished standard. I recall reading, I think in a journal of Industrial, Organizational Psychology, that many persons who are in business for themselves have high I.Q.s. The reason for these high I.Q. persons not continuing along traditional academic lines was that they were bored with school. In essence it was too easy. I have a few friends who are Mensa qualified and to a person I like them all. But here is the rub. If you are late with the rent and the landlord comes to the door who would you rather have with you, a Mensa Theoretical Mathmatician or a 12 year old from a slum neighborhood who, because they have no money for the rent, has seen her parents deal with landlords in the past. If fortune strands me in a desolate location I would prefer to have a craftsman with me rather than a person who has dedicated their life to the pursuit of academics. Make no mistake that I do not hold in high regard persons who have chosen the life of an academician because I do. I equally hold in high regard persons who have chosen to pursue a life of working with their hands learning how to become a Master.

                              IQ tests are merely a test of problem solving and I have absolutely no idea what value an IQ test for Craftsmen would be. I just think somehow it would be a good idea. I also have no intention of working to develop such a test, those days are long gone - not necessarily forgotten - but still long gone.

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