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  • Childrens education

    Since word of association game is getting boring for everyonewas fun at the begining

    Do you think education is good excelent or poor for our children or future children?

    Do you think teachers have a good knowledge to teach our children or teachers have the same knowledge that our children will get? Is that enough?

    Is it enough to teach them just of american culture and continent?

    If teachers are paid more would that matter?

  • #2
    Re: Childrens education

    First I do not believe education has improved over the years,
    second I believe they are more about social experimentation and building and being political correct than about education, and not to be inveigle thinkers but to a controllable mass.

    There is so much about public education that is not the reading, writing, and math, skills. or what I think of as Education.

    You talk so some one who was raised and went to school pre 1940's and they had an education, they could do math in there head, read and write, do (as the call it to day) consumers math, = ever day math.

    I have felt our local school district for a public school has been a good school.


    But for our kids, (we had 4, now grown and married), we home schooled them. MY wife did the teaching?
    We had some school bus problems which aided our decision to home school.

    When my oldest daughter took her GED, for collage entrance, scored higher on the test than any one ever had in that testing location. has a growing family.
    My son has his own business,
    my third daughter went to collage, works with her husband in his business, has two kids,.
    my forth daughter is happily married and has a home ran business of her own.
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Childrens education

      Come one people..childrens education....

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Childrens education

        Originally posted by mrs. westcoast View Post
        Since word of association game is getting boring for everyonewas fun at the begining

        Do you think education is good excelent or poor for our children or future children?

        Do you think teachers have a good knowledge to teach our children or teachers have the same knowledge that our children will get? Is that enough?

        Is it enough to teach them just of american culture and continent?

        If teachers are paid more would that matter?
        Many very good questions. I will submit my opinion on the first in this post:

        Q: Do you think education is good excellent or poor for our children or future children?
        A: Education today in public schools is barely satisfactory. It is improving somewhat and will take the time for those now in elementary school to graduate high school for those improvements to reach fruition. For anyone to survive and raise a healthy family in this world, they need to know basic science: Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Biology/Public Health. Mother Nature does not care if we live or die, and mankind's meddling in the sciences have increased the risk. Knowing the basics of science is necessary to survive on planet Earth. Ask any professional plumber. They deal with all four every day. To learn this they need to know how to READ and REASON. Reading is now a focus on our schools here, but reasoning was previously taught by the family and extended family. Sadly many young people do not have that available, so it falls to schools, mentors, or others that may care enough to try and teach them.
        As for society, in this, the best country to live in at this day and time, it would behoove us to focus on the rules that made this the place everyone wants to come to, ie our Constitution and our form of Republic [representative government of united entities (States)] that is not a true democracy, but a blending of representative and democratic principles. (If this was a True democracy, everyone would vote on every thing congress proposed before it could become law). It has its faults and virtues, but all citizens should understand it before they reach voting age.
        As for history, we can probably can that. It has been rewritten so much that the truth is probably no longer available. Despite the the admonition that "those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it", we are doing exactly that again and again. The winner in any battle, be it civil, societal, or armed conflict, gets to write the history, so it is always biased.
        We are emerging from a period where academia has influenced education to emphasize "touchy-feely" and "just get along" values instead of the reality that you have to think, be responsible for yourself, and contribute to the society that affords you a decent opportunity to survive. It will take a while for it to show its effect, but the renewed emphasisi on reading, comprehension and math are a real good start.

        I am nearing 60 yrs old. What I was required to learn to get a HS diploma in 1965 is now taught in the first two years of college. I call that regression.
        I grew up in a small midwestern town, and everyone, even the sluggards who barely made it through HS knew three things:
        1. Money does not grow on trees. You have to provide something of value to someone with it to get it.
        2. If you spend more than you get, you do without, and so does your spouse and children
        3. You are responsible, financially, legally and civilly for the actions of your children until they reach legal adulthood.

        Sadly, those graduating today are considered "well educated" if they know two of those three. And rule #3 has been preempted by lawsuits that gives teachers and parents an easy excuse to not follow it. Ten years ago they were lucky to know one (which may answer the question on teacher qualifications). Proof of this is just now showing in the housing market/mortgage foreclosure problems.

        Go
        Practicing at practical wood working

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Childrens education

          Originally posted by mrs. westcoast View Post
          Since word of association game is getting boring for everyonewas fun at the begining

          since you don't like my game please don't play as it won't hurt my feelings in the least. but please don't say everyone is borad with it, since you are the only one complaining.


          Do you think education is good excelent or poor for our children or future children?


          i would have to say i do not feel like i am very smart though i do have good common scents, though my son is learning hight math than i was taught history is almost none existint so i have mixed feelings, by the way he is in 11th grade.


          Do you think teachers have a good knowledge to teach our children or teachers have the same knowledge that our children will get? Is that enough?


          i feel sadly with out the teachers hand book my son is smarter then the teacher(god i hope he never reads this line)


          Is it enough to teach them just of american culture and continent?


          no i feel to makeit in this world they need both american culture and the culture from abroad, as knowage is power
          If teachers are paid more would that matter?

          maybe but i again feel that teachers have to put up with more crap now then every before from kids witch makes it very hard to care when everyone around you dosen't care

          and as forrest gump says......... and thats all i have to say about that.
          9/11/01, never forget.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Childrens education

            Sorry oldslowchevy..i take back the everyone are bored with it...what i meant is it was slow for a couple of days and no-one was playing it...

            I loved it and played it ...there was no activity and i posted a new thread..

            Sorry for smashing your post..didnt intended to

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Childrens education

              Mrs. West Coast, glad you brought this topic up because i've actually got something useful to bring into a conversation.

              I'll start out with an excerpt 'My Ishmael'; a book in a series of books that have changed my life and almost everyone else's life that has read them.

              “Today’s graduates don’t leave school with all the advances of the past hundred years in their heads. Just like their great-great-grandparents a century ago, they leave with enough in their heads to start at the bottom of the job market, flipping burgers, pumping gas, and bagging groceries. It just takes today’s graduates a whole lot longer to get there.”

              While quickly thumbing through the pages of the book thats the most concise statement i could find on short notice. I'll expand upon that thought. If you look at the big picture the current education system, it does not work for anybody but business. It is specifically designed not to work for anyone but business because if it did work then we'd all be in trouble. (i'll explain in a bit.) The education system does nothing but delay the current generation from entering the work force. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors. There is a specific reason for this and it is as follows:

              150-200 years ago there was no reason for many of young people to stay in school past age ten. Work was to be had everywhere and by then the basic educational needs to live and get by have been learned and that was all that was needed. As America became more industrialized and grew so did the population, the population grew faster than jobs could be created thus more and more schooling was becoming he norm in order to delay all these youngsters entering the job market and taking jobs from their parents generation.

              Fast forward to the present day. Currently it is expected to continue your education beyond high school even though the amount of knowledge given to each graduate is less than what used to be expected as pointed out by gofor. By the time everyone is in high school what is needed to live and get by in the workforce is already for the most part learned so we have to fill that time by adding extra subjects like history, astronomy, psychology, and all those mostly useless subjects that do nothing but take up time. Of course there are exceptions to this, many professions need extra education (i.e. doctors, laywers, etc.) but the VAST majority of students are only in school to take up time and they will not use anything learned in thier real life. There is also an economic aspect to this flawed system and why this system is only good for business. These tens of millions of time wasting students pump billions of dollars each year into the economy without taking much out. The impact of this is huge for business and there are whole markets geared and designed specifically to this age group.

              A common theme by people who criticize the current system says that if we just ready our graduates better for the real world all would be solved. Now I know what you're saying...this sounds great and I agree it does but let's look what would happen if this did occur. There is a job position open in a business office and a 40 year old with 20 years experience apply and a 20 year old with a education that has readied them for this job both apply. Who should get the job? If your son, daughter is the 20 year old then you want them to but lets turn the tables and and say you are the 40 year old and have just been beaten to the position by this young person. How does that make you feel? Can't you see why this is the main reason why our current system will NEVER change, as much as we want better for our children's generation when they start taking jobs that should given to us we secretly don't really want change after all.



              Ok rant over and I hope that wasn't too illiterate and at least a few of you understand it. There is a solution to the problem and I would love to give it and if any are interested i'll write a little on it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Childrens education

                Do you think education is good excelent or poor for our children or future children?

                In my opinion, (and I think statistics go along with this) high school education is failing and is behind most of the world. Today we seem to be passing kids, just to move them up the grades. We graduate kids that can barely read, know little math, even less history, can't find their own state on a map, and in many cases barely have the social skills to hold a job at Walmart (I think they do get hired at Home Depot though! ). When I graduated from high school, my Regents diploma barely gave me the basics to get a job. It was supposed to be focused on preparing us for college, but almost 80% of those that went to college failed within the first year. Recently I watched a documentary on community colleges and was sadly surprised that most students spent the first year in remedial studies... being taught what they should have learned in high school.

                Do you think teachers have a good knowledge to teach our children or teachers have the same knowledge that our children will get? Is that enough?

                I think teachers are better "educated", but as far as "knowledge" is concerned, that may be debatable. I live in a neighborhood full of teachers and frankly some of them don't have enough knowledge to put batteries in a flashlight. From what I've been told, teachers in NY state are expected to have (or quickly achieve) their Masters Degree if they expect to gain tenure. I don't know what that actually consists of though, and whether specific in depth knowledge of a particular subject actually locks in a teacher. They undoubtedly know enough to follow the state prospectus. But beyond that, I think it is rare unless a teacher has a real specialty like math or science. Many teachers that I know consider themselves "teachers of anything"... in other words, they think that they have a special gift and can teach anything that is set before them. Bless us all if that were true. Unfortunately, many teachers simply present the lesson and it's up to the student to absorb the knowledge or not. In some of my experiences, it seemed doubtful as to whether the teacher had anything more than a passing acquaintance with the subject at hand.

                It is also a shame that the teaching profession and the established school systems have wrapped themselves in a protective shroud. Teachers must hold a minimum of a Bachelors Degree and preferably a Masters. I know a lot of very learned people who simply are denied an opportunity to teach, because they don't meet the high schools' degree standards. Yet, these same people can and do teach at the local community college and have gained recognition for their abilities.

                Is it enough to teach them just of american culture and continent?

                Absolutely not, but we have to be realistic too. I don't think it is possible to teach "culture" given the relatively short amount of time available. I think they need to get a handle on "World History" and "Cultural Diversity", but otherwise, learning anything of depth really needs to be left to higher learning or the curiosity and sense of social responsibility of the individual. I do think "social responsibility" is a course all by itself. Looking at young people in our country today, it seems that this is an almost forgotten lesson at home. Personally, I would be delighted if we could show some progress in teaching American History and values. Unfortunately, we have a tendency to continually widen our scope; and in so doing, what used to be essential is without substance or purpose.

                If teachers are paid more would that matter?

                I really don't think so. Again, I am fully aware that the popular conception is that teachers are underpaid. But, it has been my experience that almost the opposite is true. The idea of "under paid" teachers is one of the success stories of the NEA in my opinion.

                But, I think we need to ask, "Underpaid, as compared to what?". Teachers here, make more than, skilled machinists, factory workers, nurses, medical technicians, retail managers, and probably most trades people. (Plumbers may be the exception though! )

                They make about as much as mechanical engineers, with the same level of work experience, but that's less than middle level managers, scientists, pharmacists, and certified accountants... at least until teachers get tenure. My five closest neighbors are all retired teachers and I know three active teachers. They all live quite well, with new cars every couple of years, and really nice middle-class lifestyles. Add to that very generous health and pension benefits, which can't compare to the engineers that I know. I don't know a single retired Engineer, Machinist, or any other working-class person who lives nearly as well as the teachers in my area. Contrary to popular belief, teaching is a pretty good gig for the most part. I know there are exceptions of course.

                But either way, "more pay" really doesn't serve the objective of better education, unless there is a clear sign of people leaving the professon or not coming into it. Shortages, I believe, are mostly in areas like "inner cities" where no amount of money is going to bring anything but the most desperate into the fray. Troubled schools have much larger problems than teacher shortages, I think.

                However, one of the problems with education is that it must begin at home. That's an almost impossible task in itself. Our schools have become surrogate parents to many students, especially among minorities and a growing poverty class. With both parents or the single parent overly challenged just to feed and cloth their dependants, there is little left to provide the kind of family life that provides security and self-esteem to their children. Only slightly different is the attitude among a fair percentage of parents, that "education" isn't their job; when in actuality, it's probably the most important responsibility a parent has.

                The schools can't deal with this kind of problem and all too often the only way that this challenge is handled is to "classify" students into groups and then prioritize based on potential. Guess who looses?

                Also one needs to look at the teaching profession itself. In most areas, good teachers and bad are covered by unionionized contract. Unless a teacher really messes up, there is little that will separate them from the pack. There ARE great teachers, but there are some that are less than mediocre. Think back to when we were in school and try to remember every teacher you had and how many were really good. I've probably had over thirty. Most I barely remember, and only a handful were really motivating. It's sad to think that the really great ones were probably being paid the same as the really bad ones.

                CWS
                Last edited by CWSmith; 09-06-2007, 02:48 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Children's education

                  Knowledge and Education?

                  I think teachers are better "educated", but as far as "knowledge" is concerned, that may be debatable. I live in a neighborhood full of teachers and frankly some of them don't have enough knowledge to put batteries in a flashlight.
                  I think there is a misconception on education and knowledge,
                  Some people are just educated fools,

                  One of the big slogans of a few years ago by the local school was
                  "Education is the KEY"
                  Yes I do understand that as an idea, one of the big problems is the morality /or personal responsibility of that statement.
                  and that is the segment (as stated before that is missing in much of the schools today),

                  I don't care how much one is educated, if they don't act up on that information and act upon it for the positive, then what good is the education.

                  example: teach/Educate some one about chemistry, and on the positive side they become a scientist, and cure some horrible illness, on the negative side they start to cook street drugs in some gang. (note: same base education was given to both but the personal responsibility is much different).

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                  one of the other things is not recognizing the students for the strengths they have, (note: many who read here probly can relate with this).
                  First I am dyslexic and when in school becasue of the difficulty with language arts, I was told I was dumb, lazy, stupid, etc, and there were other in my classes that had similar problems and treated similar.
                  Hey guess what none of us became writers or took off in some big academia way in life, but guess what when these same teachers in later years wanted some thing done, (house remodel, car repaired, other repairs or some thing built, guess who there were calling on. The DUMB STUPID LAZY KIDs IN THE CLASS, why because they had a knowledge and skills they did not.

                  I could ask this WHO IS THE DUMB ONE.
                  The answer is neither is necessarily dumb but there skills lie in different areas
                  this is some of what make the world the place it is, some times it is as much about the differences as the likeness we possess.

                  there is more to education than book learning and more to knowledge than education, and more to life than information, there is morals and self responsibilities,

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~

                  If is was to define education and knowledge, it would be something like this,

                  Education is information one has been taught or learned from various sources,

                  Knowledge is the accumulation of information and practical experiences and the ability or take the combination of information and experience and morality and mold it and utilise it in a practical way, even expanding the use of the original to beyond in the creation of new and even better ways and ideas, and practices.
                  Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                  attributed to Samuel Johnson
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Children's education

                    Originally posted by BHD View Post
                    Knowledge and Education?



                    I think there is a misconception on education and knowledge,
                    Some people are just educated fools,

                    One of the big slogans of a few years ago by the local school was
                    "Education is the KEY"
                    Yes I do understand that as an idea, one of the big problems is the morality /or personal responsibility of that statement.
                    and that is the segment (as stated before that is missing in much of the schools today),

                    I don't care how much one is educated, if they don't act up on that information and act upon it for the positive, then what good is the education.

                    example: teach/Educate some one about chemistry, and on the positive side they become a scientist, and cure some horrible illness, on the negative side they start to cook street drugs in some gang. (note: same base education was given to both but the personal responsibility is much different).

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                    one of the other things is not recognizing the students for the strengths they have, (note: many who read here probly can relate with this).
                    First I am dyslexic and when in school becasue of the difficulty with language arts, I was told I was dumb, lazy, stupid, etc, and there were other in my classes that had similar problems and treated similar.
                    Hey guess what none of us became writers or took off in some big academia way in life, but guess what when these same teachers in later years wanted some thing done, (house remodel, car repaired, other repairs or some thing built, guess who there were calling on. The DUMB STUPID LAZY KIDs IN THE CLASS, why because they had a knowledge and skills they did not.

                    I could ask this WHO IS THE DUMB ONE.
                    The answer is neither is necessarily dumb but there skills lie in different areas
                    this is some of what make the world the place it is, some times it is as much about the differences as the likeness we possess.

                    there is more to education than book learning and more to knowledge than education, and more to life than information, there is morals and self responsibilities,

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~

                    If is was to define education and knowledge, it would be something like this,

                    Education is information one has been taught or learned from various sources,

                    Knowledge is the accumulation of information and practical experiences and the ability or take the combination of information and experience and morality and mold it and utilise it in a practical way, even expanding the use of the original to beyond in the creation of new and even better ways and ideas, and practices.
                    Very good said..


                    The question i asked is beacause i would like to have different opinions since one day my child will go to american school..Not from here and education is absolutly 100% different here and back in europe..

                    I wanted to get an idea of what do parents do or can do to change it? Homeschool or not?

                    The idea of sending my child one day to these schools around here freakes me out!!!! So many hate between kids or different race, so many teachers that don't care, so many teachers that care and don't get pay enough.

                    Place where i was raised and brought up..the schools were very strict..

                    I was lucky to live 2 min walking to my school

                    Children were carrying their own heavy backpaks..coming home with bruised shoulder..

                    Coming home around 4 pm ,eat ,do homework till sometimes 9 pm...go to bed..wake up at 6..be in school by 6-30 for breakfast,and class start at 7 am

                    Learning english when i was 7...mandatory...by 10 years old second language was mandatory but option ...german or italian..

                    Having to learn 2 pages of foreign language word by word...having tests where you have a question and need to write the answer down and explain why is that correct answer..and not like having here multiple options..

                    Having gymnastics and run 3 miles at the age of 10 and being graded on it..if you made it you get an a..if you didn't make withing limited time allowed you get a poor grade...

                    From what i hear and what i see back in europe is more hard then it is here...

                    People when they go to college they don't get a loan like here or pay...addmission people collect all your final scores from each grade starting in your primary scool to high school and based on that they let you in..if your grades were totaled at the garde c....you wouldbt be able to enter to any university..to become lawyer..pharmacist....


                    OK well this is my short story

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Childrens education


                      A dog had followed his owner to school. His owner was a
                      fourth grader at a public elementary school. However,
                      when the bell rang, the dog sidled inside the building and
                      made it all the way to the child's classroom before a
                      teacher noticed and shoo'ed him outside, closing the
                      door behind him. The dog sat down, whimpered and
                      stared at the closed doors. Then God appeared beside
                      the dog, patted his head, and said, "Don't feel bad fella'....
                      they won't let ME in either."

                      9/11/01, never forget.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Childrens education

                        In my opinion, they should no longer call government controlled schools "schools". They should call them governmental indoctrination centers. Because they are far more concerned with programming students what to think, then teaching them how to think. And doping them up if they don't quickly fall in line. If I had school age children I would find private schools with absolutely no connection to the government and work more or make do with less to send them there.

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