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  • america's health insurance

    Michael Moore's 'Sicko' confronts American public

    The filmmaker's latest documentary asks why Americans don't demand better healthcare.

    The reason Moore feels compelled to ask this "Sicko" question is because, he feels, the country unthinkingly settles for substandard and ruinously expensive medical treatment, especially when compared with countries with universal healthcare.

    That the United States ranked only 37th on the WHO list, just two slots ahead of Cuba, particularly infuriates Moore: With more wealth and technology than any other country, we nevertheless have 50 million citizens without insurance, 9 million of them children.

    As "Sicko" anecdotally documents, many Americans eligible for insurance can't afford it, and a long inventory of preexisting conditions limits the insurability of those who can.

    Oprah had Linda Peeno on her show. She worked for a health insurance company until she finally quit. Her job was to deny claims. Peeno made a candid confession before Congress about her job and how well she was paid for doing it well. The denied claims increased the profits for the company.

    Moore said that the Commonwealth Fund recently did a study and found that the waiting period in Britain is less than the US, but Canada has a long wait time. “You do have to wait longer to see a specialist or something that is not life threatening,” Moore says. “If it is life threatening in Britain or Canada or any of these countries, there is no wait.

    “But this is the philosophical and moral issue. We removed 50 million people from the line. You know, if you are having to wait in line to see the doctor, if you take 50 million people out of the line, your wait will be shorter. I have got to say, as an American, if I need to wait an extra 4 weeks or whatever because my knee is hurting, and I need a knee replacement; I would rather wait those eight weeks if it meant that almost 50 million of my fellow citizens had health insurance.”

  • #2
    Re: america's health insurance

    There are many reasons you have to wait for a knee replacement in other countries, such as many doctors leave because they hate working in socialist healthcare systems. If I have to wait months to get a knee replacement then that is months that I cannot exercise and will possibly cause other health problems.
    Another reason for waits in other countries is money. There are more MRI machines in Detroit than in all of canada. Canada will not spend on the machines and that causes long waits. If you need an MRI, you need it soon, not 6 months from now.
    Here is a link about a socialist canadian minister who went to the US because canadian healthcare wouldn't help her:
    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...914?hub=Health
    She is your typical hypocrate socialist.
    www.TheWoodCellar.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: america's health insurance

      It did not take much to prove much of what Moore included in is Documentary was BS. I will let our Canadian members defend there system but I can tell you the guys I know in Alberta do not think highly of it. Romney had an interesting plan when he was Governor. He required everyone to pay for Health Care but the State subsidized those who needed help. To me I think that is fair.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: america's health insurance

        IF the state subsidizes it then that means I am subsidizing it through my taxes. I am tired of subsidizing every body else in this country from welfare deadbeats to those who can afford health insurance but refuse to buy it so they can spend the money on big screen TVs.
        www.TheWoodCellar.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: america's health insurance

          Originally posted by Rafael View Post
          There are many reasons you have to wait for a knee replacement in other countries, such as many doctors leave because they hate working in socialist healthcare systems. If I have to wait months to get a knee replacement then that is months that I cannot exercise and will possibly cause other health problems.
          Another reason for waits in other countries is money. There are more MRI machines in Detroit than in all of canada. Canada will not spend on the machines and that causes long waits. If you need an MRI, you need it soon, not 6 months from now.
          Here is a link about a socialist canadian minister who went to the US because canadian healthcare wouldn't help her:
          http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...914?hub=Health
          She is your typical hypocrate socialist.
          I don't get your point....
          Did you read the story?

          Stronach went to U.S. for cancer treatment: report

          Updated Fri. Sep. 14 2007 7:57 AM ET
          CTV.ca News Staff
          Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.
          Stronach's spokesman, Greg MacEachern, told the Toronto Star that the MP for Newmarket-Aurora had a "later-stage" operation in the U.S. after a Toronto doctor referred her.
          "Belinda had one of her later-stage operations in California, after referral from her personal physicians in Toronto. Prior to this, Belinda had surgery and treatment in Toronto, and continues to receive follow-up treatment there," said MacEachern.
          He said speed was not the reason why she went to California.
          Instead, MacEachern said the decision was made because the U.S. hospital was the best place to have it done due to the type of surgery required.
          Stronach was diagnosed last spring with ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS). The cancer is one of the more treatable forms but Stronach still required a mastectomy -- which was done in Toronto -- and breast reconstruction.
          Stronach, who announced last April she would be leaving politics before the next election, paid for the surgery in the U.S., reports the Star.
          "As we said back in June when we confirmed the surgery, this is a personal and private matter between Belinda, her family and her physicians. I think you'll understand that because of respect for Belinda's privacy, we refrained from offering specific details around her medical treatment," said MacEachern.
          While it is rare for MPs to seek treatment outside Canada, MacEachern said Stronach was not lacking confidence in the system.
          "In fact, Belinda thinks very highly of the Canadian health-care system, and uses it when needed for herself and her children, as do all Canadians. As well, her family has clearly demonstrated that support," MacEachern told the Star.
          MacEachern did not offer any other details regarding what type of surgery Stronach had or what she paid for it.


          The Canadian health care system has often sent patients to the States if the ailment is life threatening and there is no way to treat it here (in Canada).

          Because Belinda Stronach comes from a very wealthy family (google Frank Stronach, her dad) she decided to pay for her surgery in California even though she could have let the medical system pay.


          She is about as far from a socialist as you can get, her father pioneered ways to treat workers fairly without union organization.

          She did start her career in politics as a conservative but switched over to the liberals when she realized her mistake... What is a country without it's people? What is government for?


          Our (Canadian) medical system is not perfect, there is a finite budget to deal with but at least nobody goes without medical care here. We don't have horror stories of people going bankrupt and losing everything they own because someone in the family got sick...
          Cheers! - Jim
          -------------
          All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. - Schopenhauer

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: america's health insurance

            I don’t want to subsidize anyone either but the problem is we already are. I pay just under $15,000 per year for Brenda and I to have Health Insurance. I know a gentleman who decided he would play the odds and not carry any Health Insurance even though he collects a 6-figure income. Earlier this year his appendices ruptured and he spent 8-days in the hospital. Because he has no coverage to pay the $38,000 hospital bill the hospital is absorbing the cost which of course means all of us are absorbing the costs.

            If each State required everyone to pay for Health Insurance like they do for Auto Insurance you would eliminate a bunch of the uninsured. The ones you would subsidize would still pay an amount based on their income. Again those are people who have no coverage anyways and we all pay to subsidize them because no one is refused Emergency treatments. For them a common cold is an emergency just so they will be seen. Secondly, we need to be more like Canada who made me prove I had Health Insurance and money available before I was granted an extended stay. Then we need to enforce our immigration laws to get rid of illegal aliens but not at the cost of providing basic health care of their children.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: america's health insurance

              Jberg,
              I read the story and several other stories about her.
              My point is that she didn't want to wait to be treated in canada so she went to the states. It is that bad system that she supports that created wait times.

              Toutahnow,
              The hospitals need to sue the folks who stiff them, many of them have assets, many of them have jobs whose wages can be attached
              www.TheWoodCellar.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: america's health insurance

                Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                Jberg,

                Toutahnow,
                The hospitals need to sue the folks who stiff them, many of them have assets, many of them have jobs whose wages can be attached
                I don't disagree but for whatever reason they don't. If the State require the insurance they could put a lien on property to pay for the insurance when people decide to "risk" it. Insurance is not just there to protect the buyer it is there to protect the community.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: america's health insurance

                  The state would need to file a suit before it can put a lien on anyone's property. The hospitals should file suits. I dont want the govt forcing me to buy insurance, what if I cant afford insurance?
                  www.TheWoodCellar.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: america's health insurance

                    Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                    The state would need to file a suit before it can put a lien on anyone's property. The hospitals should file suits. I dont want the govt forcing me to buy insurance, what if I cant afford insurance?
                    The State does not need to do anything to file a lien they just do it. It is the same as when a Contractor puts a Mechanic's Lien on property. The hospital could put a lien on as well but only after winning a lawsuit.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: america's health insurance

                      Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                      Jberg,
                      I read the story and several other stories about her.
                      My point is that she didn't want to wait to be treated in canada so she went to the states. It is that bad system that she supports that created wait times.
                      I'm still confused because the story is not about wait times but rather about the best place to get plastic surgery done (it doesn't take much to put two and two together).

                      With our system every province is slightly different but in general anybody who is working is obligated to pay for medical insurance based on their earnings. For example my wife and I pay about $80.00 per month for our medical coverage. Those who can't pay are subsidized by the province. The province receives transfer payments from the federal government to help with medical expenses.

                      It is a good system because nobody goes without... and people don't lose everything if they become sick. Is it perfect? No but what system is?

                      The grumblings you hear from Alberta and other places are over private medicine. The problem in a nutshell is that if private medicine is allowed, ie; rich folks can pay for services on their own (like the states), then it will create a two tier medical system that will slowly erode universal health care for everyone and lead to a system like you have in the states with horror stories of monstrous runaway medical bills and costs. As it stands now anyone is free to go to the states and pay for whatever they want if they can afford it. Leaves our system intact.

                      If more governments refused to pay the skyrocketing equipment and drug charges then everybody would be better off, but that is for another thread sometime...
                      Cheers! - Jim
                      -------------
                      All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. - Schopenhauer

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: america's health insurance

                        The comments I have heard as far as complaints is the quality of the health care in Canada and the long waits. It seems long waits is subjective as I often would like to get in sooner than is available. However, I’m sure it has nothing to do with socialized versus free market. It has to do with scheduling as the doctors and surgeons are rarely sitting around wondering if anyone is going to come in for a visit that day, As for the quality of the health care I was told it was because the doctors can earn considerably more in the US many of the talented doctors leave to work in the US.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: america's health insurance

                          You know what they say timing is everything. There was just an interview with the husband of the women who was found after 8-days of being trapped in her car which was stuck in a ravine. Her medical bills are estimated to reach $500,000 to $1,000,000 before this is all done. The husband has insurance but she was not covered as they decided to wait and buy her coverage later. They had just purchased a new home and they currently have $60,000 in their savings account.

                          I’m sure the hospital and doctors will do the same as many of us business guys do at times, chalk it up to “cost of sales” which ends up costing all of our other customers a little bit more.

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment

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