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offensive game ...(you were warned)

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  • #31
    Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    Just imagine the votes which would be available to candidates who would do the work the majority wanted done.

    Mark
    Affirmative action.
    In my state a caucasian scores 98 on the state police exam, it's nowhere good enough.
    A minority scores less and gets the job.
    How'd that happen?
    There are plenty of intelligent, qualified minorities...many agree with this point yet somewhere it became leverage for extra votes.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      Sorry guys, it's not hundreds of years ago, we have laws and they need to be enforced. I also think you two gems should talk for yourself when saying "We lazy Americans", illegal South Americans may for the most part be hard working but every time I hear Americans being too lazy to do the same work I feel like punching the crap out of someone. I worked a hard, dirty and dangerous job for years, went on strike for months at a time to win better pay and benefits for myself and my family. We have lost jobs to the third world where these folks work for pennies, we have lost jobs to illegals who will work cheap and unsafe. Mention these facts when you have the nerve to call Americans "lazy". Level the playing field by making them pay for services received that we pay for through taxes, make them pay taxes and send their kids to school including college and pay for it in full like I do. When the slave labor employers here in the good old USA are willing to pay a living wage and benefits that allow a legal American to pay his/her bills and raise a family you will see who steps up and does the best job. No doubt some of us have gotten soft because our standard of living has risen , but instead of raising the illegals to where we are, some morons would have us sink to their level. No thanks champs, I like the air up here and I will do whatever it takes to keep this view. You think the illegals who are working for spit and taking your work are so great? See how much work they can give you when we all go broke!

      I understand your frustration but this topic does not raise my blood pressure nor does it make me angry. It's just a reality and you can't stop the train. You personally won't stop the influx as it's done here and in habitation.

      Do you know that they can claim disability here in the U.S. for not knowing the language? The government pays some of them money until they learn the english language. You can choose to be mad at the person who was smart enough to figure out that the government offered it, or you can get mad as hell at the people that created that ability, allowed free movement into the country.

      Your beef is/should be with the government, nobody else. You jump aaron for statement of americans and blacks, your stating "illegal South Americans"

      Where's the line of distinction in his words and yours.

      Government is here for our eternity. Living here in the United States has a fee/charges/annual dues; it's called taxes up one way and down the other.

      You cannot stop a train that's already unloaded its passengers.

      Get mad at the system, it doesn't amount to nothing on our level of convo.. I wish it did but it doesn't.

      To the statement of "lazy americans"

      I was raised in a rural area, we as unlazy white americans when I was growing up did a lot of farming and anything involving the task at hand.

      In the majority of farming these days, you won't find the young white male or female making a solid decision to farm the land, following the footsteps of mom or dad. They might have an integral part to the idea, but they exercise the mind to sublet labor costs to a work force that WILL show up when you need them,

      they will work 15 hours straight, they will go to sleep and turn right back around and do it again, 6 days straight.

      Find me a white american that'll do that for a lower rate of pay than industry standard, work that hard and not stop, being loyal to the employer and saying thank you for employment.

      If you did happen to find one, the first question would be to yourself, "why would you work so hard and for so little, for so long?"

      Go searching for the restaurant industry statistics of 2000% turnover rates when dealing with employment, unemployment stats, work related injuries, theft.... then watch those numbers drop when you introduce "illegal south americans" as you call it, go way down.

      I'm not anti-american, not pro-mexican, not black either...........but if you want to converse with opinions and statistics, the true reality of situation,


      Statistics should be your focus and not the personal opinions that it's not right. We know the process isn't right; the fact is, we can't change it. If you can change it, I welcome it and glady support your agenda. Mind you that I'm not close-minded to this subject matter, I was only addressing the labor/work factor and there's a huge downfall to the process of people making it here and hindering our health system. If they are not paying into SSI that hurts the person who does.

      Put a fence a mile high from the bottom end of CA to FLA, there'll be more holes in that fence than brittney spears pantyhose and the government will be responsible for the bolt cutters that put them in there.

      Ever seen the percentage of Cubans in Florida? From what I'm told, you're hard stretched to find a teacher that derives from Caucasian descent. I hear there's 20 some nationalities in florida alone. !!!!!

      Who's worse

      The illegal aliens?

      or

      The white americans that employ them?



      Seems to me that you should be pissed at white americans....knowing illegal aliens cannot work unless somebody is employing them.
      Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 01-20-2008, 10:54 PM.
      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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      • #33
        Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

        Your beef is/should be with the government, nobody else. You jump aaron for statement of americans and blacks, your stating "illegal South Americans"

        Making a distinction between Americans and Blacks suggests that they are two different groups, news flash Blacks are Americans unless they too are illegal or foreigners. He made it sound as if Blacks were not part of Americans. I'm white, but I know while there is a high perecnetage of Blacks in prisons, Whites still outnumber them. I said "illegal south americans to include "All" the folks who are entering our country from the southern border and not just the mexicans. When you say mexicans are the illegals you miss out on all the other folks from that part of the world who are entering illegally. About your remark of finding Americans who would work for below industry standards, I agree you won't because Americans can afford to work for that kind of money. Level the playing field by paying a living wage and benefits and you will see that Americians are not as lazy as you say. This whole thing is going to get worked out because too many hard working Americans have been put out of work, not by harder working illegals, but by illeglas who work cheaper. IT's about money not who works harder. Maybe you missed the point I made about the third world worker who is doing the work for pennies on the dollar. He is not working harder, just cheaper and if we keep losing jobs to the third world and cheap working illegals, who will buy all the consumer goods? Not those people making little money. Who will hire all you folks who still have a job and need to charge higher rates to pay for all the services the illegals us but don't help support? Guys it won't be those illegals, and if Americans keep losing work it won't be them either. My beef is with our government that has refused to build a fence and "secure" it. Trust me a secure fence can be built and enforced if the government wanted to do it. My beef is with all the employers and American homeowners who hire the "Day labor/Slave laborers, instead of a American who charges more because he is supporting a family right here in our country and paying taxes. When I see an entire company doing tree removal work employing illegals to operate their big bucket trucks in place of the Americans who had done it in the past, "I know it's not because the illegals work harder. I know it's not because the Americans were lazy, because I know those guys. It has to do with who will and can work the cheapest. So please stop calling Americans lazy when they are losing work because of cheap labor. I never said the illegals were lazy, that's not the point. One last thing, one of you mentioned something about "what Americans would go to another country and speak a foreign language to support their family". Face it those people came here for the money, not to prove how hard they could work. Most of their country men are still at home! IF the only paying jobs were below the border and Americans "could" enter mexico and other south american countries as easily as they enter ours, I think you would find plenty of Americans crossing over to save their families. Then you would hear how hard working the Americans were compared to the lazy mexican locals! Level the plaing field and force employers including homeowners to pay a decent living wage for work done. Then see who gets the jobs.

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        • #34
          Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

          I'm sure when Aaron chimes in he'll make a statement stating that was incorrectly typed. Remember though, he works in one of the highest crime rated areas and it's him and them....if you was in his shoes you might make the same statement.

          I agree you won't because Americans can afford to work for that kind of money
          I've seen too many follow the lines of unemployment chasing their expertise and NOT working at McDonald's to pay the tow. Rarely do I see people not holdout till their cash cow comes in, the profession they know best and pays the most money. It's selfish, especially when family and kids are involved.

          just cheaper and if we keep losing jobs to the third world and cheap working illegals, who will buy all the consumer goods
          So you don't buy anything made in china, don't shop at Walmart, no?

          90% seems that everything is made in another country, shipped here for sale because it was built by cheaper labor. IE the computer you're typing on right now, the screen you're looking into to see my words.


          Level the plaing field and force employers including homeowners to pay a decent living wage for work done. Then see who gets the jobs.
          I mentioned this in my response and I agree wholeheartedly but in the game of business and making money, it'll never happen at this point. I'm in business to make a profit. My hires come with a substantial price attached to it. I can either hire somebody cheaper to widen my profit margins or I can charge the customer more to keep the margin the same as if I hired someone cheaper.

          You know which one will price me out of a job, possibly a profession. Didn't say that I would do it either.

          I mentioned other nationalities in the my ending sentences. My focus isn't just one nationality.

          In the next 10 years caucasians are going to be a minority. Are you ready for that? I am.

          There's not one thing I can do to change it, there's not one thing I can force gubbament to do to stop it. They come here for freedom, America is the best place in the world to live/bring personal wealth to themselves and their family.

          All of this reminds of a car chase where the police chase the vehicle for miles and miles, property damage occurs and lives are affected/endangered. At some point logical thinking should of kicked in during the first mile of the chase to do the pit maneuver and stop it right there and then before it gets ugly.......not be a spectator oogling the situation and waiting for transportation failure or even worse, stopping as the result of accidental injury to others.

          The above paragraph is just exactly what were involved with when people enter the country illegally. Chasing them for miles and miles watching them do as they do and letting it happen from the go puts the blame on us, not them.

          The problem starts up top and rolls down to the bottom, you know this in every part of politics to business to personal life; accountability.

          Did we stop any illegals with the creation of the this thread? Absolutely not.

          Get some older full blooded Indians on this site if you want to see someone "upset" about illegals entering their country. We stole this from them, plain and simple.

          I hope they enjoy all the rewards from the ownership of casinos; doesn't change the facts but at least it betters their living communities. We call them "preservations" in the true context of their dedicated land. I offer no favoritism to any one race, including my own. Being biased gets you in a lot of trouble with a greatly sectioned group of people.
          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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          • #35
            Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

            Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
            I offer no favoritism to any one race, including my own. Being biased gets you in a lot of trouble with a greatly sectioned group of people.

            dunbar i think that is the best line said in this whole tread
            9/11/01, never forget.

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            • #36
              Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

              I'm sure when Aaron chimes in he'll make a statement stating that was incorrectly typed. Remember though, he works in one of the highest crime rated areas and it's him and them....if you was in his shoes you might make the same statement.

              "It's him and them"? Man that sounds as bad as what he said. I Lived and worked in The South Bronx most of my adult life and it was never us and them. That's the kind of stuff I expect from racists, skinheads. The subject was illegals and all of a sudden Blacks are being mentioned outside of Americans, what was the purpose of that? You want to grow your business and widen your profit margin by hiring illegals, help yourself and get ready to pay higher taxes for the services they use. Expect to see more and more Americans unemployed not because they are lazy but because they can't work for your slave wages. Hopefully the government will wise up and correct this national disgrace. With any luck the illegals will be documented and forced to choose between staying here and paying their fair share of taxes or going back to their country of origin. What will business people like yourself and homeowners do once there are no more illegals to work for peanuts? IF you folks still want to hire guys from south of the border because they work harder at least you will have to pay them a fair wage. Our country is in serious trouble thanks to illegals and those wiho hire them, the high price of gasoiline and everything that depends on "Oil". Greed and apathy got us in this mess and it's gonna take some work to turn it around. I don't want to turn this forum into a pissing contest where I have to be right, I just didn't like some of the comments about Americans being lazy and Blacks not being Americans. You guys have your own thoughts and opinions and bottom line you have every right to express them, I just don't agree.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

                I feel like I'm stepping into a mess I should just stay out of, but here goes.

                If either "side" of this argument is going to be intellectually honest they are going to have to admit that there are two very complicated sides with many, many facets. There are ways that this country and the people in it benefit from the illegal workers being left here and the employers being left alone in their hiring of them. There are real problems with this model too. If you can't admit that there is a reason that this is happening and it isn't JUST because we are not guarding the border well enough then you are choosing to be naive.

                Yes, many illegal imigrants use services like hospitals and schools that they are not paying into with taxes--but that is not the case all of the time. Many illegals who work in the service industry, ie restaurants, do pay taxes because they got hired with a false social security #. There is no other way in most urban areas. This also means they are paying into social security that they really will not likely be able to collect on. So they are in fact supporting our SS system at the moment. A big chunk of change will disappear if they were to all be deported.

                And yes, prices will go up for farmed goods. And in restaurants. And many large corporations who are taking advantage of this situation will lose a lot of money. And prices will go up in stores.

                As far as they majority or minority vote, if you think either one of these is a factor on par with the lobby money from the wal-marts and big industry to our political servants, I think that is cute. Can't worry about the votes till you get millions and millions of $ to run in the first place.

                Yes, many illegals are hard working family folks, but you are kidding yourself if you think that South American gangs are not becoming more and more of a problem in in this country. The prisons are run by them. So are many of the streets.

                And then, as was stated before, is the fact that not very many of us are native to this land to be up in arms saying who is allowed where. I know more than a couple of illegal immigrants from southern Mexico. Their families back home, which is why they are here, still speak Mayan more than Spanish. You are trying to tell me that with ancestry as old as theirs on this continent, with all of the conquering from European immigrants they took (the language everyone is so upset about here is from Spain, not Mexico) you have the right to tell them which side of an imaginary line WE created in what has been their continent for centuries they had better stay on?

                People talk about political correctness like it has anything to do with being flat out bigoted. A game that shoots people like vermin is not politically incorrect, it is ****ing dehumanizing. No matter how well you think you can take it with a grain of salt as a joke, it is the same sort of propaganda that has always dehumanized the "outsider" scapegoats. And if you think that exterminating people is a joking matter, go tell that **** to my family that is left in Europe after WWII. Oh yeah, can't do it. None left.

                Eli
                A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                Comment


                • #38
                  That last rant just gave away your political lean

                  And that concludes my statement.
                  Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 01-21-2008, 01:26 PM.
                  Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                  • #39
                    Re: That last rant just gave away your political lean

                    [QUOTE=DUNBAR;117273]And shame on me for entertaining a convo with you knowing the history of that line of thinking.





                    Unless you're scooping up illegals and shoving them back across the border, you're not accomplishing anything. There's the poor the middle class and the wealthy, it is not gender or racially predictable on who goes where. I work for all nationalities when they call me unless I simply just cannot understand them because of language barriers. Funny how easily you point fingers and call names. Some of my best loyal customers are african americans and some of them live better than us. Here's one to stick on your forehead and look in the mirror; I've worked for more white trash in my day than any of them. Got that? I've seen white mothers neglect their children more than the others, living conditions so deplorable that it's sinful. Get over your superiority standard that whites are perfect, buddy.

                    Do NOT tell me that I shouldn't classify people that has percentages of crime far greater than others, and not consider these as potential hazards when approached with them. Why you would subject yourself to live in an area that is predominantly dangerous *bronx* and your chances are more likely to get caught in the crossfire of a bad situation...


                    you obviously are one of those stand alone fellows that will put yourself and your family in harm's way to either prove a point or just plain stubbornness to stand above the known given facts and statistics.

                    Consider yourself one proud individual that walks the face of this earth above all others...because you lived to tell the day of your hardship of living in a crime ridden area.


                    If you are talking to me don't get confused and put words in my mouth. I've seen the same White lowlifes as you. My family lived in CT while I worked in the Bronx and had guns pulled on me and dogs set on me just for doing my job. I am lucky to be here and I hope our country is moving towards less hatred based on race. When I read "Americans and Blacks" my hope of less racism is shaken. I want the illegals brought out of the shadows and forced to either pay taxes and live like legal Americans or leave. I want Americans to have a fair chance to work without getting unpriced by illegals. I'm not telling you what to do or say, I'm disagreeing with it! Yes, percentage wise Blacks account for a higer percent of crimes and prison inmates within their race, But there are still more Whites comitting crimes and serving in prison. Those statistics don't mean anything regarding this conversation of Illegal Immigration and what if anything our government will ever do about it. Go back and tell me where the Hell I said Whites were superior? You must be talking about someone else so I'm sorry. Hey clear your head and have a safe day at work, all this crap will be here tomorrow.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: That last rant just gave away your political lean

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      es, percentage wise Blacks account for a higer percent of crimes and prison inmates within their race, But there are still more Whites comitting crimes and serving in prison.
                      I grew up in San Francisco, very racially mixed and tollerant part of the country. I have friends of many races and when I was a teen and in my young 20's I saw first hand what much of this statistic is all about. I had black friends who got pulled over by the cops literally once a month at the least, for no infraction. One who was "pulled over" while sitting in his legaly parked car. It happened with me in the car a few times, and let me tell you, they would run every name in the car every time and do a thorough search. I spoke up the first time about how we didn't have to agree to be searched because it was our right and was shut up by my friends who didn't want any trouble. These guys were always clean but they would get held up 45 minutes at a time with this crap.

                      I had a roommate, white dude. 24-7 had weed on him in his car. And a pipe. Sometimes mushrooms. Sometimes small amounts to sell. Had a speeding problem. A running stop sign problem. NEVER had his jeep checked during the numerous times he was pulled over. If the cops had, they would have found his stuff.

                      I have been pulled over while driving exactly three times in the last 17 years. Once for speeding (I was) once for following too close (I was) and once for expired tags (they were). Never once searched.

                      My point is that my roommate should have been adding to the white statistics, my black friends if they had a small amount of weed ONE of the dozens and dozens of times they were searched would have added to the black statistics, and here I am getting to live my life like a normal person just because I follow traffic laws the same as my black friends always did.

                      Stats are BS.
                      A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

                        I agree stats are B.S. but folks use them to support a point or otherwise. I worked with a young Black guy who droves his mother in laws porsche to work, he constantly got pulled over by cops thinking he had drugs. Racial profiling is fact, racism is fact. Sterotypes are an insult to people who share none of those behaviors or traits. When will it end? When will we get past the b.s. and see the people behind the skin or accent? Someone said earlier that in a few years Whites will the minority in this country, I guess we will have to get use to changing how we describe people of color. No problem here, I don't care who is in the majority, who is my neighbor, or anything else, as long as they are here legally and do me no harm. Peace

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                        • #42
                          Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

                          can't we all just get along?
                          9/11/01, never forget.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

                            Hey OSC, you started all this so you figure it out. In the words of Rodney Dangerfield, "I'm a lover, not a fighter". Who knows, this may be Thread Of The Year in 2008?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

                              For a topic with such angry potential, I gotta say wow.
                              Despite a few small jabs...well done.
                              Very insightful...easy for me to look past small things like steriotyping until I hear how often a black guy in a sportscar gets pulled over for no apparent reason.
                              Looks like all thoughts are fairly unanimous...none of us are against aliens or minorities entering the country, just against illegals.

                              I grew up listening to stories from my Irish grandmother telling me about "NINA" & "INNA"..No Irish Need Apply, Irish Need Not Apply.
                              These were signs hung over the doors of many businesses during the early part of the last century.
                              It's not just an American problem, it's a human nature problem...we will always instinctively prejudge or alienate anyone who's different, in time we have excelled at looking beyond differences and seeing individuals.
                              The problem here is illegals.
                              When I bid on a job, hoping to make enough for the cost of living after taxes, it's very hard to compete with contractors who use illegals as "subs".
                              Just repeating myself here, but the TRUE offenders are those who knowingly hire them.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: offensive game ...(you were warned)

                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                For a topic with such angry potential, I gotta say wow.
                                Despite a few small jabs...well done.
                                Very insightful...easy for me to look past small things like steriotyping until I hear how often a black guy in a sportscar gets pulled over for no apparent reason.
                                Looks like all thoughts are fairly unanimous...none of us are against aliens or minorities entering the country, just against illegals.

                                I grew up listening to stories from my Irish grandmother telling me about "NINA" & "INNA"..No Irish Need Apply, Irish Need Not Apply.
                                These were signs hung over the doors of many businesses during the early part of the last century.
                                It's not just an American problem, it's a human nature problem...we will always instinctively prejudge or alienate anyone who's different, in time we have excelled at looking beyond differences and seeing individuals.
                                The problem here is illegals.
                                When I bid on a job, hoping to make enough for the cost of living after taxes, it's very hard to compete with contractors who use illegals as "subs".
                                Just repeating myself here, but the TRUE offenders are those who knowingly hire them.
                                Great observations and I totally agree. I have the utmost respect for anyone who will work hard and take care of his or her family, just play fair and respect our laws.

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