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  • #16
    Re: Made In The USA For Real

    A pleasant surprise for me was finding that Buck Bros has a line of chisels that are Made in the USA. They are definitely superior quality to their china made line (and also more expensive, but still quite affordable). Good chisels.

    Go
    Practicing at practical wood working

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    • #17
      Re: Made In The USA For Real

      Leatherman is made in Oregon, isn't it? I'm pretty sure their stuff is US made. And Buck knives still makes a good amount of their product in the US.
      I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

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      • #18
        Re: Made In The USA For Real

        Sorry, but this whole thread is very depressing. When we have to scratch our heads to come up with an answer to this question we are in trouble. Global economy my butt, we have lost too much to other countries and gained a recession as payment for out shortsightedness. Open your minds and carry this current economic situation down the road a year or two, do you really see an improvement?

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        • #19
          Re: Made In The USA For Real

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          Open your minds and carry this current economic situation down the road a year or two, do you really see an improvement?
          So what's the solution?
          Buy cheap, buy twice.

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          • #20
            Re: Made In The USA For Real

            Good Luck on finding truly American Made products. The cost of doing business in this country has driven it all away. If other countries had to pay their workers what is standard and customary in this country, or hideously overpaid (think steel or automotive), and comply with reasonable environmental standards, it wouldn't be cost effective to ship it here from halfway around the world. Taking steel as an example, it is so heavy that if all else were anywhere near equal, the shipping weight would kill it. But when the labor is $2/hr or less, and waste disposal is as easy as digging a hole,suddenly the margin is there to pay the freight bill. There is no way we can compete with union steelworkers at $40/hr and stringent environmental compliance laws. Same thing with Automobiles. If the automakers paid prevailing wage for typical industrial assembly type jobs instead of the Union contract wage, we could compete with the rest of the world. And if workers just did what needed to be done instead of worrying about whose job description it is a part of, we would all be better off and the jobs wouldn't be leaving this country.

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            • #21
              Re: Made In The USA For Real

              This comment is probably going to get me in trouble but here goes anyway!

              I used to think the problem was unions demanding higher and higher wages. Then the computer industry got slammed with "offshoring" by the big vendors like Dell and HP and others. The computer support industry is not a union group. There has never been a union movement in the computer industry. The jobs went offshore because of wages nonetheless. When someone in New Dehli can do the exact same job for far less than an American, the jobs will go where it's cheaper. In the US the cost of living and the quality of life is much higher than elsewhere, and India has grown a fine crop of technically savvy individuals with a much lower cost than the US.
              I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Made In The USA For Real

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                Sorry, but this whole thread is very depressing. When we have to scratch our heads to come up with an answer to this question we are in trouble. Global economy my butt, we have lost too much to other countries and gained a recession as payment for out shortsightedness. Open your minds and carry this current economic situation down the road a year or two, do you really see an improvement?

                It is depressing, but the u.s. is no longer a the leader in manufacturing products. Im not saying we dont make a superior product its just all the manufacturing jobs are going or have gone overseas. This is probably due to higher taxes and like it or not unions.

                Now while we have lost manufacturing jobs, we have also gained many jobs and careers since the 90's with the popularity of computers and the internet. Maybe the U.S.'s strong point will no longer be in manufacturing. And I think this will show in the next generation of workers.

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                • #23
                  Re: Made In The USA For Real

                  Originally posted by VASandy View Post
                  This comment is probably going to get me in trouble but here goes anyway!

                  In the US the cost of living and the quality of life is much higher than elsewhere, and India has grown a fine crop of technically savvy individuals with a much lower cost than the US.
                  Fine crop of technically savvy individuals my butt, ever call Dell or HP for tech support? You cant understand a damn word they are saying and to boot they are just reading off a script of frequent problems.

                  This is where higher taxes should come into play. You want to sell your product here, you have to either pay a higher tarriff or keep a certain amounbt of jobs here.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Made In The USA For Real

                    Originally posted by VASandy View Post
                    This comment is probably going to get me in trouble but here goes anyway!

                    I used to think the problem was unions demanding higher and higher wages. Then the computer industry got slammed with "offshoring" by the big vendors like Dell and HP and others. The computer support industry is not a union group. There has never been a union movement in the computer industry. The jobs went offshore because of wages nonetheless. When someone in New Dehli can do the exact same job for far less than an American, the jobs will go where it's cheaper. In the US the cost of living and the quality of life is much higher than elsewhere, and India has grown a fine crop of technically savvy individuals with a much lower cost than the US.
                    VASandy, as a long time Union man I would say I disagree with your theory but I would rather calmly argue the point than say you are in trouble for your right to such an opinion. My experience and belief is that Unions got people together to fight for safer working conditions and benefits that employers were not about to give of their own free will. These safer conditions saved plenty of men and women from injury and death, the benefits allowed them to buy homes, cars and other consumer goods and send their kids to college. These are all good things to grow a society but they come at a cost. My upset and attention is directed at all the CEO's who walk away from failing companies with multimillion dollar packages. Instead of damming the Unions we should praise them for raising the standard of living and quaility of the working environment of their workers. With or without Unions the inescapable problem America faces is the fact that our higher salaries are necessary to function in our society. Now more than ever we need more income to pay for housing and the ever increasing cost of food and fuel. Unless we want to mirror the third world countries we sadly shake our heads at on tv, we must undertake a effort to turn things around and place blame where it belongs.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Made In The USA For Real

                      Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                      So what's the solution?
                      Gear Junkie, I've been scratch'in my head on that question for quite a while now and although I have some ideas I doubt the solution will be simple or quick. Getting to where we are now with having lost so many jobs took some time. The double and triple jump in fuel and food has been much faster. I think we need the willingness of our president and both parties to open their eyes and come together for the sake of our country in this time of crisis. There are brilliant folks in Washington who could if asked layout a plan to get us on our feet. Here are some of my simple minded ideas. Stop spending a trillion dollars in iraq, especially if they don't give us a major break on oil and don't pay us back for the cost of their freedom. Do away with credit card debt by putting a one card, two or three thousand dollar limit on how much a person can charge. No more buying all sorts of home furnishings, consumer goods and racking up thirty thousand or more debt that just keeps the credit card companies rich and gives us a false sense of national wealth. Accept the fact that we cannot survive as an information only society, we must produce most of the products we consume and balance the trade deficit. Unless we figure out how to keep the third world the corrupt, cess pool that it has always been we are doomed to become a part ot it. We have to keep Americans job and money strong and we cannot pay these high prices at the pump, for home heating fuel and at the food stores much longer. Maybe our government needs to sit down with the heads of big oil and instead of asking them 100 questions that go nowhere, tell them you are going to rollback prices to what they were two or three years ago because if you don't our society will continue to tumble downhill into a depression. People can't afford to change cars or give up their work trucks, we are past that point because this happened too quickly. People don't have the time or money to convert their homes to wind or solar energy and this comming winter many will suffer terrilby. We need some intelligent advice and some time and money to act on it. The stimulus money will do nothing long term. So do you agree that we at least need to start rather than keep paying at the pump and shaking our heads like bobble dolls?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Made In The USA For Real

                        Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                        Fine crop of technically savvy individuals my butt, ever call Dell or HP for tech support? You cant understand a damn word they are saying and to boot they are just reading off a script of frequent problems.
                        Those aren't the jobs that we should be most afraid of losing anyway. The first level of tech support people here also just read off of scripts. The only real disadvantage of the Indian tech support people is the accent.

                        The scary part is that there are plenty of Indians who can do more skilled work (like software architects, or financial analysis etc.). There are 1 billion Indians, so there are going to be some really bright people who come from there. I've met lots of them, and they can produce stuff with the same quality as Americans. In the past, many of them would have worked here; and they still do, but I think more of them are going back or staying there.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Made In The USA For Real

                          Originally posted by cpw View Post
                          Those aren't the jobs that we should be most afraid of losing anyway. The first level of tech support people here also just read off of scripts. The only real disadvantage of the Indian tech support people is the accent.

                          The scary part is that there are plenty of Indians who can do more skilled work (like software architects, or financial analysis etc.). There are 1 billion Indians, so there are going to be some really bright people who come from there. I've met lots of them, and they can produce stuff with the same quality as Americans. In the past, many of them would have worked here; and they still do, but I think more of them are going back or staying there.
                          I agree that there are plenty of bright educated people in India and other countries, the scary part in my opinion is that our government has no plan with big business to deal with this shift in jobs. Let's face it there are the have's and have not's and for many years we Americans have been the haves in terms of good jobs, education and every other benefit that comes with a free society of hard working people building their economy and selling to the world. Things have changed and all too quickly, the shift of jobs, goods and wealth have thrown us in a tailspin. We have some difficult choices to make if we can stick together and get the cooperation of our government, do we allow this trend to continue or do we take action to interrupt what has been taking place? If you want to think in global terms, imagine us as the primary consumers of the tech support and products of the world, now what happens as we lose more and more of our buying power due to our erroding economy? Unless there is a big enough market of consumers to replace us, it really doesn't matter who has the technology, jobs and products to sell.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Made In The USA For Real

                            The problem is mostly laid at the steps of the Capitol building, where congress makes laws based on bogus science that cripples us in the international marketplace.
                            Global warming: Congress says the sky is falling and we have to stop using incandescent light bulbs, curb our gas guzzling and mandates alternate fuels. Well, the world temp has been cooling since 1997 (has dropped 1 degree centigrade in 9 years the amount Al Gore said would raise in 20 years) and no reduction in carbon based fuels has yet been made.
                            But, if we are going to mandate the conversion to alternate fuels, why then are we seeing high gas prices due to a shortage of fuel in the US because so much is being held in reserve. If we aren't going to use it it is worthless ( Anyone remember the phrase "Save your Confederate dollars, the South will rise again"??)
                            Wages in the US (and I do mean Union wages) are not the problem, altho they are blamed. Mexico, India, Bangaladesh, etc have always had cheaper labor. The cost of shipping the materials back and forth is more than the cost of paying US Union wages. (Not to mention the billions of gallons of petroleum fuel contaminants belched into the atmosphere shipping them). The cost of manufacturing in the US is fighting lawsuits at every turn brought by shady lawyers, environmental fanatics, and the cost of complying with environmental regulations that are 10 times more stringent than the rest of the world.
                            The UN has long attacked the US as a bully that is not doing enough to bring the third world up to our standards. In reality, all that is happening is we are being dragged down to their's, and they are already salivating on how they will split up the spoils.
                            Wake up and smell the outhouse people, because that is what your grandchilderen will be using for sanitation. Only by voting out those with big campaign war chests sponsored by special interest and foreign governments (that means US businesses owned by other countries) will the politicians start actually delivering on some of their promises to the working people if they want to stay in office. They need to be sent a message that business as usual will mean they aren't still in office to do business.

                            Go
                            Last edited by Gofor; 04-17-2008, 08:41 PM.
                            Practicing at practical wood working

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                            • #29
                              Re: Made In The USA For Real

                              a large part of the increases in the fuel and food is the drop of the value of the US Dollar, grain is a world traded commodity and so is oil, and when the dollar drops the price of grain goes up as there currency can buy more, and our currency is worth less we can not buy as much, on products such as oil,

                              grain is also facing world wide shortages as many normal exporting countries suffered major drought this last year, and much of the US wheat crop was damaged, as well. and there is historical low of world wide stocks of grains. and currently Texas is rating much of there crop as poor.

                              even tho we grow and export grains and meats, much is imported as well, (take the pet food scandal were the wheat gluten was contaminated was imported from china to a factory in Kansas, (one of the largest wheat producing states there are), why grains and meat are imported I still have difficulty understanding the economy of it or the logic of it.
                              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                              attributed to Samuel Johnson
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Made In The USA For Real

                                Originally posted by Gofor View Post
                                Wages in the US (and I do mean Union wages) are not the problem, altho they are blamed. Mexico, India, Bangaladesh, etc have always had cheaper labor. The cost of shipping the materials back and forth is more than the cost of paying US Union wages. (Not to mention the billions of gallons of petroleum fuel contaminants belched into the atmosphere shipping them).
                                Go
                                Lets see - UAW worker including benefits - round numbers about 70 bucks/hr. Mexican worker including benefits - round numbers - about $5/hr. If there is 100 hours of labor in an automobile that is 7000 vs 500. When you are shipping by the trainload, I guarantee you you can ship a car from any plant in Mexico to New England for way less than the 6500 difference. The lawsuits have nothing to do with it. Ford gets sued just as bad in US courts if a Mexican built Ford has issues as they do with an american built Ford. And 70 dollars is a **** pot full of money to pay to get someone to screw in left taillights. There are probably some good union workers that are worth every cent of the overinflated wages. But unfortunately the contracts force the company to pay the slackers the same wage - this drags everyone down. Why should someone bust their *** to assemble 4 perfect widgets when the guy at the next bench assembles 3 half assed ones and gets paid the same money? Pretty soon a lot of good guys take up this logic and everyone falls to the level of the least common denominator. If the company tries to fire a slacker, they have the union stewards all over their *** trying to protect the slacker.

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